ATI 24' 8x39w T5 or Ecotech Radion ?

[dh350twin]

I am starting a new tank it is a marineland dd 93 gal 30x30x24.
I will be growing a mixed reef including but not limited to mainly zooanthids and sps.

My problem is i cannot decide on what light fixture to put over this tank as it is not the "normal" tank dimension.It is deeper then i am used to and shorter then i am used to.

My last tank i ran all t5's and i really liked the colors(after some bulb changes) and was very pleased with the growth i experienced.I really would like to go with the Ecotech but not sure if it will meet my needs.

Any imput on the subject would be appreciate

[dh350twin]

no one has an opinion?

[drunkfish3]

not sure one ecotech will cover, they only cover 24"x24" but depending on you rock work it may work.

[Fig]

Wait for the Kessil A350's IMO

[Saltwatercoral2]

I know its not on your list.. But I vote a halide retro.. WIll light that tank up perfectly.

But from your list, im guessing you meant a 8 x 24 watt t5 fixture? If its between the only 2 listed, i vote the ATI fixture

[jwilliams860]

I have the marineland 24x24x18 cube and I have a 6 bulb sunpower over it and everything dows great, i was also thinking about picking up the Radion and trying it, but ive never had an issue with my t5 was just thinking of trying led and picking up one for my cube is cheaper then swapping them on my 300 gallon, but i dont think you could go wrong with either one, would just be a preference i think.

[dh350twin]

i like the feed back i will check out the kessil

[TucanSam007]

This is a tough question to ask man. We don't have enough reviews on the radion to make a good call. I'll do a review on mine coming tuesday :) and give you a heads up on coverage

[jimrawr]

The sunpower or powermodule is a sure bet and the radion is definitely an unknown right now. I think if you want SPS you should stick with the ATI right now. Take it from someone who bought a very expensive LED system and sold it after 7 weeks..

[dh350twin]

Yeah it is a little early.....i really hope it has enough spread i have high hopes for this fixture.
The ATI is bad a** and i know i will not go wrong with it.
I also am unsure if i should do the 24 inch which is not a true 24 inch or go with the 36 inch which is not a true 36 inch
What do you think?

[dh350twin]

The sunpower or powermodule is a sure bet and the radion is definitely an unknown right now. I think if you want SPS you should stick with the ATI right now. Take it from someone who bought a very expensive LED system and sold it after 7 weeks..

Why if you do not mind me asking did you not like the led?

[jimrawr]

Went from a 400w 14k ushio bulb which gave me great colors and growth to LED that browned everything out in a few days and colors never came back. Last week I changed to a ATI Sunpower and I slowly see colors coming back. I liked the 400w Ushio bulb for the corals but I didnt like the color it put out so thats why I didnt go back to that.

I would go with a 8x24 on your tank I think. That leaves 3 inches on either side of the unit which is fine, will give you great coverage.

[Texsun]

I currently run an ATI 8x24w over a 30" in tank and will be get 2xRadion on Monday. I went for two Radion as I previously ran two AI Sol Blues and thought the coverage was great. Was never happy with the AIs and sold them for ATI but the Radion tempted me back to LED. I'll obviously have more input next week.

[stevedola]

IMO-leave LED alone until people figure it out. Go with the 8x24w sunpower. Just bought one from saltysupply and its phenomenal! Ive always liked T5s but was temped away by the AI sols...needless to say I wasnt happy with the results. I went back to a proven winner! the 24" will be perfect over 30" of space. as it is, my fixture is basically the size of my tank and could be used over a larger tank.

COLORS ARE AWESOME...nothing like T5. Ive ran 250w radiums + AIs, this by far is the best color and still has that dusk-dawn effect. Theres nothing like the LEDs dimmable dusk-dawn effect but the ATI is a small compromise for the excellent results. I will say, I liked my radiums color and growth was good but it was difficult for me not to have the dusk/dawn effect...plus the ATI looks killer over my cube in the living room.

[rtparty]

IMO-leave LED alone until people figure it out. Go with the 8x24w sunpower. Just bought one from saltysupply and its phenomenal! Ive always liked T5s but was temped away by the AI sols...needless to say I wasnt happy with the results. I went back to a proven winner! the 24" will be perfect over 30" of space. as it is, my fixture is basically the size of my tank and could be used over a larger tank.

COLORS ARE AWESOME...nothing like T5. Ive ran 250w radiums + AIs, this by far is the best color and still has that dusk-dawn effect. Theres nothing like the LEDs dimmable dusk-dawn effect but the ATI is a small compromise for the excellent results. I will say, I liked my radiums color and growth was good but it was difficult for me not to have the dusk/dawn effect...plus the ATI looks killer over my cube in the living room.

LEDs have been figured out and are great to use. You have to get the right kind though. AIs are some of my least favorite LEDs. They have a very limited spectrum and just don't look good.

Im as big of fan of ATI as just about anyone else out there but since going to LED, I wont be returning to T5s. Bulbs are getting more expensive every year and replacing them once a year can get expensive.

8 bulbs every 10-12 months is gonna run about $180 a pop. Ecotech has some pictures of their system over their own tanks and things look really good.

I vote for the radion or even the Ecoxotic fixtures coming out this week.

[dh350twin]

This is getting interesting and is very helpful,,,,but i am still unsure.
I am leading towards the ATI as well just to remove the what if factor.

[solitude127]

The way I feel about the Radion is that this is it's first run. My dad always told me to never buy the first run of anything... cars, guns, etc..... IMO, I would wait a year to buy the Radion so that they can get the bugs worked out (if there are any). I'm sure Ecotech did their testing but no testing like end user testing.

[dh350twin]

Yeah that is definitely something i have considered.

[stevedola]

I will say this, IN MY OPINION, my tank never looked better than with the ATI fixture.

[huge1day]

I am in the same situation, but a little more difficult. My tank is 36x36x24. Ecotech said 2 Radions would cover it but I don't see how??:headwally:

[dh350twin]

Thank you for all the feedback

[fishcraze_1]

I just got a 24" powermodule 8 x 24. Seems like everyone likes these fixtures as they are proven. Can someone post bulb combinations and or pictures. Looks like I made wise choice over leds

[dh350twin]

I just got a 24" powermodule 8 x 24. Seems like everyone likes these fixtures as they are proven. Can someone post bulb combinations and or pictures. Looks like I made wise choice over leds

where did you purchase it.

[fishcraze_1]

where did you purchase it.

A fellow reefer took down his Elos 70 rimless, I got the light from him

Over half off new price too

Just need to sell some frags to buy new bulbs

Will try it out with existing bulbs to see how they look

[reefinder]

ATI fixture for sure, love the colors mine produces

[stevedola]

I just got a 24" powermodule 8 x 24. Seems like everyone likes these fixtures as they are proven. Can someone post bulb combinations and or pictures. Looks like I made wise choice over leds

Im running

ATI blue +
ATI purple +
blue +
UVL Aquasun
blue +
purple +
geiseman midday
blue +

Its a crisp 15k look. Beautiful color
if you like it more blue then probably take out the midday and add a blue special or something similar. If you ask over in the t5 Q&A thread they can help you better.

[Texsun]

I am in the same situation, but a little more difficult. My tank is 36x36x24. Ecotech said 2 Radions would cover it but I don't see how??:headwally:Only way I can think of is hanging at an angle to the tank so that it runs corner to corner likeD2Mini did. (http://reefcentral.com/forums//showpost.php?p=19256120&postcount=117). Would obviously look bad if your tank isn't peninsula style like his.

[fishcraze_1]

Im running

ATI blue +
ATI purple +
blue +
UVL Aquasun
blue +
purple +
geiseman midday
blue +

Its a crisp 15k look. Beautiful color
if you like it more blue then probably take out the midday and add a blue special or something similar. If you ask over in the t5 Q&A thread they can help you better.

Thank you. Can u post some pictures if u don't mind. Love to see them

[stevedola]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1083336&page=12

check out this link...i dont have a pic of my tank ATM but ill try later

[aqua80]

did you make your choice ?
I have the same tank (93g 30x30x24) and also scratching my head as how to light it... of note this tank is not 30x30, the real footprint is 28.5 x 28.5 (only the exterior of the trim is 30x30...)

My tank is full sps and I'm leaning toward a giesemann spectra 24" 400w MH + 4t5h0... or maybe the ati powermodule 8x24"... or maybe 2 radions (but worrying about the depth for sps...)

I am open top so the fixture must look good too... would have been easier with a canopy !

anyways please post pics of your installation !

[96p993]

My tank is empty and has been sitting for 2 months waiting for the correct light to be chosen. My decision has been narrowed down to the unreleased Ecoxotic Panorama fixture, the dimmable ATI module, and the unrealeased dimmable Apollo with UV 403

[tegee]

FWIW.....I was faced with the same exact lighting decision for my new 60gl Cube. After an exhaustive search I decided on an ATI 24" PM (non-dimmbale).

I just feel that LED's are not yet designed to their fullest potential and feel they need at least another year, or maybe two years until I go LED. Picked up the ATI PM, with bulbs, for $520 (hanging kit included). I'll happily run this lighting setup for two years and then convert to LED's.

BTW: this will be 70/30 lps/sps tank.

IMHO.....HTH

[fcmatt]

another vote for ATI. proven and reliable.

and another vote for let others figure out the LED situation. no matter what anyone says
it seems like it takes only a single year to go by before what you buy is out of favor and
another LED light takes its place as the "popular" one. These radions were not even on
the hardware radar last year.... The year before that it was AI or what not... The year
before that it was...

Blah on LED for now. Now don't get me wrong. I would like to own some kit.. but I prefer
to wait until everything has settled.

[A. Grandis]

Can't go wrong with the ATIs.
You'll have lot's of good bulb choices and can change them any time you want.

Try to wait for the LEDs a little more. The ATIs are great! I'm using an ATI PM for years now.

Grandis.

[aleonn]

ATI's are the best T5 fixture, and you cannot go wrong with them. I wish I had the money to go with ATI's in the beginning, but went with Tek Light instead (a reasonable, cheaper alternative IMO).

I'd avoid the LEDs at this time, as there's still not enough long term data on them. For example, no one has discussed whether or not LEDs shift light spectrums (like MH and T5 bulbs after 6-9 months), which would impact their cost and value.

[tegee]

I want to be very fair....I am not bashing LED's. They are most likely a great lighting system. But I personally can't justify the expense when the technology is not 100% proven. IMHO they are still very new and much more needs to be learned before I can spend monies on them. I personally still like my traditional 250w MH Radium and VHO setup on my 180gl sps tank.

[ganjero]

LEDs have been figured out and are great to use. You have to get the right kind though. AIs are some of my least favorite LEDs. They have a very limited spectrum and just don't look good.

Im as big of fan of ATI as just about anyone else out there but since going to LED, I wont be returning to T5s. Bulbs are getting more expensive every year and replacing them once a year can get expensive.

8 bulbs every 10-12 months is gonna run about $180 a pop. Ecotech has some pictures of their system over their own tanks and things look really good.

I vote for the radion or even the Ecoxotic fixtures coming out this week.

One of my concerns with LEDs is that for some reason (some people simply enjoy new toys, some claim the technology is improving hence they need to update, etc) people keep changing their LEDs systems which totally throws out the parts about saving money from replacing bulbs. On that same page I have not seen any documentation from actual use of how long will the LEDs hold PAR.
Based on this I would say LEDs are no completely figured out in this hobby. If I’m wrong or somebody has data (from actual use of LEDs, not paper theory) please correct me or point me on the right direction.

My vote goes for the ATI as of today.

[aqua80]

and besides ATI PM 8x24w vs giesemann spectra 400w + 4t5ho ?
I can have either fixture for about the same price (giesemann 200$ more...)

for a 30x30 cube SPS ?

[rtparty]

One of my concerns with LEDs is that for some reason (some people simply enjoy new toys, some claim the technology is improving hence they need to update, etc) people keep changing their LEDs systems which totally throws out the parts about saving money from replacing bulbs. On that same page I have not seen any documentation from actual use of how long will the LEDs hold PAR.
Based on this I would say LEDs are no completely figured out in this hobby. If I’m wrong or somebody has data (from actual use of LEDs, not paper theory) please correct me or point me on the right direction.

My vote goes for the ATI as of today.

According to CREE they have been running some LEDs for over 14,000 hours and seen no degrade. Of course, that is in an ideal lab setting. I certainly don't expect the 50,000 hours that these companies are claiming. I will be happy if we hit half of that.

You also need to search on here because I have seen a thread that shows where PAR readings were taken like 16 months apart and there was virtually no drop off in PAR.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2065927

And so far, most paper theories about LEDs have been beaten. Just sayin

[rtparty]

and besides ATI PM 8x24w vs giesemann spectra 400w + 4t5ho ?
I can have either fixture for about the same price (giesemann 200$ more...)

for a 30x30 cube SPS ?

ATI every time unless you like replacing T5 bulbs every 6 months with the Geisemann fixture. Geisemann generally doesn't use any fans to cool things down and with a 400w halide, you are cooking the T5s.

I would actually get the Sunpower over the Powermodule and save some money if you are buying new.

[aqua80]

ATI every time unless you like replacing T5 bulbs every 6 months with the Geisemann fixture. Geisemann generally doesn't use any fans to cool things down and with a 400w halide, you are cooking the T5s.

I would actually get the Sunpower over the Powermodule and save some money if you are buying new.

thanks !
I thought PM would be better at cooling the tubes for > 6 tubes fixture.
now should I go dimmable ? (still less expensive than the PM ...)

[ganjero]

According to CREE they have been running some LEDs for over 14,000 hours and seen no degrade. Of course, that is in an ideal lab setting. I certainly don't expect the 50,000 hours that these companies are claiming. I will be happy if we hit half of that.

You also need to search on here because I have seen a thread that shows where PAR readings were taken like 16 months apart and there was virtually no drop off in PAR.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2065927

And so far, most paper theories about LEDs have been beaten. Just sayin

16 months is with no change great (thanks for the link), but I'm waiting for at least a 3 year readings. When T5s came out they were supposed to last 24-36 months, and you know how that number decreased significantly after experimentation. I don’t doubt that LEDs will last close to the claimed 50,000 hrs but as far as PAR goes I think it could be a lot less than that.
Do you know if CREE is testing for PAR or lumens? Or what are they referring to when they say “no degrade”?

[rtparty]

thanks !
I thought PM would be better at cooling the tubes for > 6 tubes fixture.
now should I go dimmable ? (still less expensive than the PM ...)

The Sunpower will cool things just fine.

I am not totally sold on dimming not seriously effecting life. ATI says there is no effect on bulb life but I have heard from more than one lighting expert that dimming T5s will always hurt bulb life.

I don't think you need dimming but if you want it, get it.

[TreyK]

ATI here

[rtparty]

16 months is with no change great (thanks for the link), but I'm waiting for at least a 3 year readings. When T5s came out they were supposed to last 24-36 months, and you know how that number decreased significantly after experimentation. I don’t doubt that LEDs will last close to the claimed 50,000 hrs but as far as PAR goes I think it could be a lot less than that.
Do you know if CREE is testing for PAR or lumens? Or what are they referring to when they say “no degrade”?

I honestly don't know much about the CREE tests. I tried to find the thread that had all the specs and links but can't dig it up. It is over on nano-reef dot com.

Evilc66 is a major LED guru over there. He tried posting over here but the mods ban him because he worked for Nano Tuners.

I have no doubts that LEDs will easily outlast any MH or T5. If mine last me 2 years, I make my money back. I have mine over a 24g JBJ Nano Cube. It was over $60 per bulb change and the bulb choices suck! I replaced them once a year but really should have been changing them at the 9 month mark.

I am using less than half the electricity as well. Although, for most of us, lights aren't the major electricity consumer on our tanks. Sorry that is whole other topic though.

[tegee]

I have to agree...I think the dimmable models are overrated and may affect bulb life, but I have nothing to back up that statement.

I bought the ATI PM simply because it was a great deal because the vendor had left over stock. Apparently the SunPower out sells the PowerModule by something like 10 to 1 simply because of the lower cost up front cost. Other then aesthetics, I thing the SP and the PM are virtually the same IMHO. You can go wrong either way.

I am happy with my decision and I would be lying to you if I did not want to get a Radion. But I simply chickened out at the last minute and went with proven lighting.

Anyway....HTH.

[A. Grandis]

and besides ATI PM 8x24w vs giesemann spectra 400w + 4t5ho ?
I can have either fixture for about the same price (giesemann 200$ more...)

for a 30x30 cube SPS ?

I would go ATI PM. Very good and beautiful.
I enjoy mine a lot!

Grandis

[aqua80]

I would go ATI PM. Very good and beautiful.
I enjoy mine a lot!

Grandis

ATI PM coming in tomorrow :)
(got it for about the same price as a reg. sunpower !)

[reefernutz]

Ok, I've owned multiple LED fixtures from DIY to brand name. I've gone back to ATI T5s because they gave me the best color, growth and polyp extension. I will never go back to LEDs.

[BonsaiNut]

I will never go back to LEDs.

You will when fluorescent bulbs have been outlawed! LOL too funny :)

Whether or not LED's are ready NOW for reef aquariums, they are the lighting technology of the future. Just as incandescent bulbs are being actively phased out, and T8 fluorescent bulbs are being phased out, it will only be a question of another 10 years or so before everything is LED and T5 fluorescents and compact flourescents are gone. Question is not "if" but "how soon".

[kmu]

On the same 240 reef tank I went from ATI 12x54 Bulbs to 4 AI Sol Blues... Now a couple of months later I sold the Sol Blues and completely regretted selling the ATIs.

For Winter I will be running an MH Radium, T5 (ATI Blue plus ATI Purple plus) and LED (Just Royal Blues) combo.

For Summer I will be resting the MH and adding a couple more T5s to the mix with the LEDs (Royal Blues).

[tegee]

As it relates to the ATI PM 24".....is there a big (noticeable) deference between the 6 bulb and the 8 bulb unit?

[kc350twin]

As it relates to the ATI PM 24".....is there a big (noticeable) deference between the 6 bulb and the 8 bulb unit?


Yes for sure. I showed up at DH's house last week to measure the PAR for him. In the time I was there his RK had shut off the two inner Actinic bulbs on one of the channels. (he had the cords mixed up). We were doing so much neither of us noticed it. I placed the Sensor at the waters surface and immediately said "Somethings wrong". We then noticed the two B+'s were off.


Hope it Helps
KC3

[tegee]

Yes for sure. I showed up at DH's house last week to measure the PAR for him. In the time I was there his RK had shut off the two inner Actinic bulbs on one of the channels. (he had the cords mixed up). We were doing so much neither of us noticed it. I placed the Sensor at the waters surface and immediately said "Somethings wrong". We then noticed the two B+'s were off.
Hope it Helps
KC3

I guess I should have asked the question: is the 8 bulb unit that much better then the 6 bulb for a mixed lps reef tank for my 60gl Cube? Because there is a pretty good size price difference in the actual ATI fixture as well as extra bulb purchases, etc?

Many thx........

[stevedola]

youd be fine with 6 if it was for LPS/softies. could grow sps in that up higher in the tank.

[lobsterotomy]

DH, I'd stay with the T5s. I contemplated the switch to LED, but there just isn't a proven platform that I like that has the customizability of colours like T5s do, unless you go for a Japanese MH spotlight-style inspired LED array. I think you just can't compete with the colour mixing capable with T5s and the even distribution. I'm excited to see the different colour LEDs on the Radion, but it just isn't proven yet.

I'm using a Sfiligoi 8x39 Stealth. I'll be changing the bulbs soon and admiring how that Fiji Purple makes the pinks and reds pop!

[A. Grandis]

ATI PM coming in tomorrow :)
(got it for about the same price as a reg. sunpower !)

:thumbsup:

Enjoy!!!

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Ok, I've owned multiple LED fixtures from DIY to brand name. I've gone back to ATI T5s because they gave me the best color, growth and polyp extension. I will never go back to LEDs.

Wow!
That's the first time I've seen someone actually post to go back to T5s after the LEDs!!! Now we've got a proof.
Anyone else?

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

You will when fluorescent bulbs have been outlawed! LOL too funny :)

Whether or not LED's are ready NOW for reef aquariums, they are the lighting technology of the future. Just as incandescent bulbs are being actively phased out, and T8 fluorescent bulbs are being phased out, it will only be a question of another 10 years or so before everything is LED and T5 fluorescents and compact flourescents are gone. Question is not "if" but "how soon".

That is actually true. The point here is when, yes.
Right now LEDs are still being "tested" by many and will take a while to be really "approved" as the best.
But yes, I sure believe they should be the future, if another type of light doesn't show up and takes the LEDs' place...

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

As it relates to the ATI PM 24".....is there a big (noticeable) deference between the 6 bulb and the 8 bulb unit?

If you can fit the 8 bulb over the tank, please do.
I would.

Grandis.

[kc350twin]

Wow!
That's the first time I've seen someone actually post to go back to T5s after the LEDs!!! Now we've got a proof.
Anyone else?

Grandis.

I am close to switching back as well. I have seen a few say the same thing. I can tell you for sure that the color and growth were better for me when I had T5's. I'm still playing with the LED's though. It's not to say that I'm not successful with LED's but I was getting a more even spread of light I felt with the t5's.


Using Tapatalk so signatures don't show sorry if I miss some info.

[tegee]

Great thread and some great experiences and input.

I ended up going with the ATI PM 24" 6-bulb fixture. I really wanted to go with the 8-bulb, but they had a great deal on the 6-bulb and this is going to be predominately an LPS setup.

I am really excited to see the results and they ATI PM fixture looks awesome hung from my ceiling. Coming from a true MH guy on my 180gl sps for the past 6 years and I looking forward to playing with T5's on my 60gl Cube.

Many thanks again......

[jimrawr]

I went from a Vertex Illumina 260 back to a Sunpower and cant be happier. Dont plan on touching LED anytime in the near future again, it was a big mistake

[A. Grandis]

I am close to switching back as well. I have seen a few say the same thing. I can tell you for sure that the color and growth were better for me when I had T5's. I'm still playing with the LED's though. It's not to say that I'm not successful with LED's but I was getting a more even spread of light I felt with the t5's.


Using Tapatalk so signatures don't show sorry if I miss some info.

One more!! Wow!!:bigeyes:

Well, the only thing that I miss from my MH fixture is the shimmering. LEDs have that ability, without the heat, but I know they don't provide the great quality and the linear source of light the ATI PM does!!

Some of the LEDs fixtures/systems have the cloud affect and the lightning. That's cool, but not necessary. Really! One can add couple LEDs for lightning, if wish.

I would like to hear from people having the new dimmable ATI SP with the dimmer effects, please.

The T5 light is truly uniform and the PAR is great with the right bulbs. The choices for combination and change of spectrum (changing bulbs) is amazing!!!
I'm so happy with my 75gal (6 bulb ATI PM) and will some time in the future set up a 125gal. (8 bulbs ATI PM). :thumbsup: I use them for zoanthids.

Thanks to you guys for posting the truth about your experiences!! I have couple of friends changing from the ATIs to LEDs and will tell them that.

Perhaps will we hear from others about this as well?
Maybe somebody will say they actually like their new LEDs better than their T5s. I would like to know for how long they have their new expensive toys though.

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

I went from a Vertex Illumina 260 back to a Sunpower and cant be happier. Dont plan on touching LED anytime in the near future again, it was a big mistake

Humm... 3
Thanks very much for the post!
You have no idea how happy I am to see that people actually can regret and be strong to post, after spending the $money$ for the LEDs and say they are coming BACK to T5s because they are better.
Normally people try to put up with the costs and allow others to suffer, so they know.

Thanks guys for your honesty!
That will help lots of others, I'm sure.
Grandis.

[Sps Dream]

The way I feel about the Radion is that this is it's first run. My dad always told me to never buy the first run of anything... cars, guns, etc..... IMO, I would wait a year to buy the Radion so that they can get the bugs worked out (if there are any). I'm sure Ecotech did their testing but no testing like end user testing.



__________________
Mike

+1. Best answer.

[tegee]

Well, the only thing that I miss from my MH fixture is the shimmering. LEDs have that ability, without the heat, but I know they don't provide the great quality and the linear source of light the ATI PM does!!


The T5 light is truly uniform and the PAR is great with the right bulbs. The choices for combination and change of spectrum (changing bulbs) is amazing!!!
I'm so happy with my 75gal (6 bulb ATI PM) and will some time in the future set up a 125gal. (8 bulbs ATI PM). :thumbsup: I use them for zoanthids.


Grandis.


This is exactly what I heard in regard to "linear" light and "uniform" par throughout the entire tank vs. LED. And this is coming from hobbyist who hav gone through the exercise testing the diference between the two. They have found that T5's offer better overall light illumination. And testing also proves, at least now, the Par values are greater from top to bottom then LED's.

All this, and cost, made me choose an ATI fixture and so far I am very happy with the choice for my 60gl Cube.

This has been a GREAT thread....thx so much for all the valued insight!

[aqua80]

Also had led fixture before and didn't like all the shadows either...didn't get the coverage I wanted with my MH and lumenmax elite reflector so I got myself an
ATI PM 8x24w yesterday and I'm really impressed :inlove:
great quality, great coverage and PAR for my 30x30x24 cube... Love the colors too and I don't think I'm gonna miss the shimmering of the MH (and leds are too much shimmering for my taste..)

here are the PAR numbers with the fixture 5" from the water :
(these numbers are almost the double of what I was getting with the MH250w...)

http://www.reefaction.com/nosforums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1853.0;attach=10410;image

bulbs are :
1- ATI blue +
2- KZ fiji purple
3- ATI blue +
4- ATI aquablue special
5- KZ coral light
6- ATI blue +
7- ATI blue +
8- ATI aquablue special

[A. Grandis]

Yep, that's it!
I've had MH before and won't change either.
I did have a better growth of zoas with the 250W 6500K Ushio MH bulbs, but the growth with the right combination of T5 bulbs, with the ATI PM, is worderful and I don't miss the extra heat from the MH fixture.

Great!!
Have fun.

Grandis.

[akma]

I just switched back to my ATI fixture on my tank a few days ago and my chalices are looking much better. I had a AI sol blue on my tank since january and the colors do look amazing. But one of my watermellon chalcies lost it's pink and was green for the past few months. My bazooka joe chalice was loosing it's pink as well. I tried raising my AI unit up and do all sorts of like combinations. I did love the way the colors popped on the corals, but within 3 days my watermellon started coming back to red and my bazooka joe is showing bright pink again. Just after using the LED's so long i'm having trouble adjustin to a lack of shimmer and corals popping for now but if in 3 days it's bringing out he colors of my chalices and zoas in a more "natural" light I won't be going back to led's for a long time. Will probably get a led light strip though.
If I didn't have to worry about heat and electricty I would definetely go back to halides with T5 supplement.

[A. Grandis]

I just switched back to my ATI fixture on my tank a few days ago and my chalices are looking much better. I had a AI sol blue on my tank since january and the colors do look amazing. But one of my watermellon chalcies lost it's pink and was green for the past few months. My bazooka joe chalice was loosing it's pink as well. I tried raising my AI unit up and do all sorts of like combinations. I did love the way the colors popped on the corals, but within 3 days my watermellon started coming back to red and my bazooka joe is showing bright pink again. Just after using the LED's so long i'm having trouble adjustin to a lack of shimmer and corals popping for now but if in 3 days it's bringing out he colors of my chalices and zoas in a more "natural" light I won't be going back to led's for a long time. Will probably get a led light strip though.
If I didn't have to worry about heat and electricty I would definetely go back to halides with T5 supplement.

Question: why are you going to buy a LED light strip? Shimmer?

Couldn't you just adjust your LEDs for a bluer spectrum or something?
Maybe that would help some?
I don't know. With so many people coming back to their T5s like that...
I wonder if it could be just a lack of adjustment or adaptation to the new LED light.

I do like the way my tank looks with my T5s and won't go to LEDs for a while, mainly because of the price and because of other's experiences posted here.
You've said your zoas are affected by the LEDs too.
I don't think the LEDs are too strong for many of the zoas and corals, but could be that they didn't have enough time to adapt to the new light? Or the quality of the LEDs are not helping them to show their natural color? Could be a shock due to the very different spectrum/PAR/light spreading?

Seems like the LEDs you have are actually "hurting" the organisms and therefore their colors are changed. Hope I'm wrong!!! :hmm2: LEDs shouldn't hurt them!

Sorry, just trying to learn more and figure out about all this.

Again many people are happy with their new LED toys and it's hard to know if they don't want to give out the info because of the money they've spent, or if they are really having a good time. Maybe they like those changes (colors, etc)? perhaps they are not having such problems? Well, let them post here!

It is good to see people posting this type of experiences.

I've opened a thread in the zoa forum about LEDs and every single zoa keeper said wonderful things about their new LEDs. That's why I'm posting here, after a search, to know more. Again, they were using only for a little while, but they love the LEDs. Perhaps not enough time (?)...

We'll see...
Thanks again!!

Grandis.

[akma]

My zoas actually looked good. They did shrink a bit in the beginning I believe due to too much light. The led's keep my acan colors insane, but I can't get any red out of my chalices and acans. I read that people are adding T5 supplements and such, but if I was going to do that why not just go back to all T5's and I have an ati pm that I used on another tank before so I'm just using that and selling my leds. I will get the blue led strip just because of the look of the corals popping.

[A. Grandis]

Oh, ok...
Yeah, go back to the ATI, then.
ATI PM is probably still one of the best fixtures worldwide. And the ATI bulbs are really good too. Very good PAR.
Your zoas will get back to normal, and choosing the right bulbs you won't need any LED supplemental strip for them to pop.
Just sell the LEDs...

Cheers,
Grandis.

[mordibv]

I was a die hard t5 fan for years .Never failed me on growth and color but I missed the glitter lines. . I like leds and being able to play with the colors but that will always cost u intensity .Run any led unit at full intensity and I bet you will hate the color . So u tune it for looks and there goes the par out the window . U can easily compensate by using more units but that can be costly . I had a pac sun unit and then went back and forth with a halide in a LB mini wide on a 30 x 30 x 18 cube.
I sold the tank/led .I set up a small cube running SB Slim S led cree xp series . I again went back to that LB mini wide pendant . I was getting some insane SPS colors/ growth before the snowstorm and failed inverter incident. .IME too wide optics on the unit but changed them to 60's now .Never got to test the new optics truly out
I was already in the upgrade mode to a bigger tank .
Yep ... I bought a 8 bulb ATI PM . I sold the nano but still have the halide and led unit .
I will use the present led unit for the frag sump/ refuge area. I plan to retro the ATI PM with white/ blue leds for shimmer . 2 less t5's to replace is a small savings and I will not have to buy 2 boxes of t5's and just order 1 6 pack .
IME LEDS seem to work better for lps and softies but not all SPS . I will choose t5 for growth and colors over leds since i love SPS . .Maybe the led lit sump/ frag area will change my mind but I doubt it . I vote for the t-5's

[A. Grandis]

Thanks for your sincere post, mordibv!

I think you can save some small amount of money using the LEDs instead the 2 bulbs on the ATI PM fixture, yes, but you'll loose a lot of PAR, as we know. Perhaps it's not worthy at all. Just think about it. I would go all the way with the T5s for your SPS. I use 6 hi PAR bulbs for my ATI PM over my 75gal for zoas only!!! That's great!

Maybe you could add some LEDs for the shimmering besides all the T5s on?
Or just forget the shimmering...

Grandis.

[mordibv]

Thanks for your sincere post, mordibv!

I think you can save some small amount of money using the LEDs instead the 2 bulbs on the ATI PM fixture, yes, but you'll loose a lot of PAR, as we know. Perhaps it's not worthy at all. Just think about it. I would go all the way with the T5s for your SPS. I use 6 hi PAR bulbs for my ATI PM over my 75gal for zoas only!!! That's great!

Maybe you could add some LEDs for the shimmering besides all the T5s on?
Or just forget the shimmering...

Grandis.


I hear ya Grandis . Yeah as long as the leds are placed in the right rows it should not affect the dawn dusk of the ATI unit . 6 bulbs on a 36 x 18 or 36 x 24 is plenty to offset the other 2 I will not be using . ;)

To the OP good luck on what u choose .

[kmu]

Wow!
That's the first time I've seen someone actually post to go back to T5s after the LEDs!!! Now we've got a proof.
Anyone else?

Grandis.

I went back too!!!!

[A. Grandis]

Wow, there are probably lots more out there changing back to their T5s from LEDs.
They just can't find this thread to testify.
Hope this is helpful to many deciding what to get. It was for me!!!
I thank you guys very much.
I was considering LEDs for my next project and now I'll definitely go with the ATI PM, like the other tank I've got. Way too early for LEDs, I guess.

Grandis.

[BigKahuna]

You decided what you wanted to do when you started this thread though didn't you? With all the members here you didn't expect to find some people that liked their old T5's better and went back to them? If 98% like their LED's and 2% complain about them the 2% are what you are going to base a rational decision on? I don't understand the dilemma though if you like T5's use them. LED's are just another type of light like MH, T5's, VHO's etc. and they all have their pluses and minuses. Personally I liked the color of my old VHO's better than almost any T5 I've ever seen but the heat and lack of shimmer didn't do it for me so LED's suit me better. Whenever there is a new, and usually more expensive, technology comes out in any arena you immediately find two camps develop. Camp A are the early adopters who pat themselves on the back that they have, and can afford, the latest and greatest. Camp B are the graybeards who are experts in the older tech and rationalize that there is no point in ever advancing the state of the art because what they already have is probably going to be the best thing ever so only people with more money than sense would ever not use what they deem is the pinnacle of technology.

LED's offer lower power and heat usually in a relatively compact package with point source light capable of providing MH-like shimmer. They lack a fuller spectrum that something like a T5 can reproduce and are usually much more expensive, but become less so when you factor in replacement bulbs and power use. I personally could never go back to fluorescent lighting as the lack of shimmer and lack of shadows looks alien and unnatural to my eyes but that is a personal preference as it should be. If shimmer and power considerations are a non-issue for you and you don't have the money to spare don't buy LED's. It's as simple as that. There is no need to rationalize anything. The Ecotech Radion's try to do something about adding a broader spectrum with the greens and reds but they ain't cheap, nothing Ecotech makes is cheap, and I would expect other makers to start including more different colored LED's in their fixtures as well. In the end only you can decide what is best for your tank. Positing a question on a public internet forum is only going to get you so far and how you ask the question will only serve to reinforce what you've already decided in the back of your mind.

[beachbreak]

I'm going to try both LEDs and T5s and see how it goes. I've got a 180 I'm working on now where I will use (3) AI SOL blues and a 2 bulb T5 retrofit on either side of the SOLs for a total of 4 bulbs and 320 extra watts of T5. I'm going to use a blue+ and purple + on both sides of the LEDs to help open up the spectrum a little and add some extra light.

Should be interesting!

[kc350twin]

Well knowing the OP personally I can tell you that he truly wanted some guidance on the Radion route. There was some posts by someone on the Ecotech team about the fixture being able to support a 30x30 area. I can assure you that his mind was not made up.





Kc3

[dh350twin]

You decided what you wanted to do when you started this thread though didn't you? With all the members here you didn't expect to find some people that liked their old T5's better and went back to them? If 98% like their LED's and 2% complain about them the 2% are what you are going to base a rational decision on? I don't understand the dilemma though if you like T5's use them. LED's are just another type of light like MH, T5's, VHO's etc. and they all have their pluses and minuses. Personally I liked the color of my old VHO's better than almost any T5 I've ever seen but the heat and lack of shimmer didn't do it for me so LED's suit me better. Whenever there is a new, and usually more expensive, technology comes out in any arena you immediately find two camps develop. Camp A are the early adopters who pat themselves on the back that they have, and can afford, the latest and greatest. Camp B are the graybeards who are experts in the older tech and rationalize that there is no point in ever advancing the state of the art because what they already have is probably going to be the best thing ever so only people with more money than sense would ever not use what they deem is the pinnacle of technology.

LED's offer lower power and heat usually in a relatively compact package with point source light capable of providing MH-like shimmer. They lack a fuller spectrum that something like a T5 can reproduce and are usually much more expensive, but become less so when you factor in replacement bulbs and power use. I personally could never go back to fluorescent lighting as the lack of shimmer and lack of shadows looks alien and unnatural to my eyes but that is a personal preference as it should be. If shimmer and power considerations are a non-issue for you and you don't have the money to spare don't buy LED's. It's as simple as that. There is no need to rationalize anything. The Ecotech Radion's try to do something about adding a broader spectrum with the greens and reds but they ain't cheap, nothing Ecotech makes is cheap, and I would expect other makers to start including more different colored LED's in their fixtures as well. In the end only you can decide what is best for your tank. Positing a question on a public internet forum is only going to get you so far and how you ask the question will only serve to reinforce what you've already decided in the back of your mind.



I was truly surprised when i checked this thread to see if anyone had been commenting or not since last i checked.
You say i had already decided what i was going to do when i started this thread.....What are you a mind reader i mean come on,,,,i truly was up in the air between the two fixtures.
I spent alot of time researching the radion and talking with ecotech to figure out what route i wanted to take.
So i take offense to your comment and i can only assume you are just one of those guys who......well everyone knows what i mean!
For those who care i did decide to buy the ATI and wait til the radion is on the market for a while.
Thanks to all who has positive posts.

[rtparty]

I was truly surprised when i checked this thread to see if anyone had been commenting or not since last i checked.
You say i had already decided what i was going to do when i started this thread.....What are you a mind reader i mean come on,,,,i truly was up in the air between the two fixtures.
I spent alot of time researching the radion and talking with ecotech to figure out what route i wanted to take.
So i take offense to your comment and i can only assume you are just one of those guys who......well everyone knows what i mean!
For those who care i did decide to buy the ATI and wait til the radion is on the market for a while.
Thanks to all who has positive posts.

Good choice. You will be happy with the ATI.

I promoted LEDs early in this thread and still do....to a degree.

For those that like the LED look and are okay with the "unknowns", LEDs are great. My corals are doing just fine overall but my mind isn't. I watched my SPS RTN within a day and don't know the cause. Could be water quality as I have been semi-lazy lately with the tank. Full-time work and full-time school wears me out.

I am hoping in about 6 months I can move and set up a new tank. That will give me 6 more months to try some easier SPS and see if it is lighting or water. If I have GREAT success with SPS, I will keep the LEDs on as the main lighting. If SPS don't want to survive, an ATI Sunpower will be my next lighting purchase. I would like to still use some all blue stunner strips though for the extra pop!



PS - I am 99% sure that BigKahuna was talking to A. Grandis, not you.

[Logzor]

Sounds like the OP made up their mind but I'll throw my opinion out there anyways.

I've been on the fence about upgrading to LEDs. I'm shooting for a year or so from now.

I currently run a 7 bulb T5 fixture on my 150 tank. It has done me well over the years.

I also have been looking very closely at the Radion. The way I see it, Ecotech stepping into the market is a big green-light. I think they choose their steps very carefully, developing a new product is a fairly large risk for a smaller company, the fact they chose to step up their game with an LED fixtures means a lot in my book.

I do have a bit of experiences with LEDs, I run an AI Sol Blue on my frag tank. At first I was not terribly happy with it. I started out with very low power, so far haven't raised many of the levels past 50%.

Fast-forward several months....the corals under the LEDs look pretty amazing, I am achieving the deep and rich color that I only see in MH tanks.

In my opinion the problem with LEDs is the user, not the LEDs themselves. I don't think people understand that you have to start out at 10-20% power. They end up shocking their corals, which take months to recover, by which point they've already tossed the LEDs.

In addition, the majority of people who can afford LEDs are already starving their corals with massive over-sized skimmers. Throwing powerful LEDs over starving corals is a recipe for disaster.

[BigKahuna]

PS - I am 99% sure that BigKahuna was talking to A. Grandis, not you.

Yeah you are correct. I wrote "You decided what you wanted to do when you started this thread though didn't you.." when I meant to say "started posting in this thread". There isn't anything wrong with the OP. The OP took exception with what I wrote and I apologize because it did look like I was attacking him even though it wasn't my intent.

When I read A. Grandis write: "Wow, there are probably lots more out there changing back to their T5s from LEDs." it just seemed like he was just rationalizing his choice of T5's by using a couple of bits of anecdotal evidence to bolster his opinion. There is no need to rationalize. If you don't trust LED's will make you happy don't get them. Personally I love seeing people use all sorts of technology I might never even use to see the state of the art advanced. LED's are new but they aren't that new. T5's are proven but they weren't always so and there are probably some VHO graybeards who still snicker at them ;). Get what suits your needs and it won't matter what anybody says about it.

[mordibv]

Sounds like the OP made up their mind but I'll throw my opinion out there anyways.

I've been on the fence about upgrading to LEDs. I'm shooting for a year or so from now.

I currently run a 7 bulb T5 fixture on my 150 tank. It has done me well over the years.

I also have been looking very closely at the Radion. The way I see it, Ecotech stepping into the market is a big green-light. I think they choose their steps very carefully, developing a new product is a fairly large risk for a smaller company, the fact they chose to step up their game with an LED fixtures means a lot in my book.

I do have a bit of experiences with LEDs, I run an AI Sol Blue on my frag tank. At first I was not terribly happy with it. I started out with very low power, so far haven't raised many of the levels past 50%.

Fast-forward several months....the corals under the LEDs look pretty amazing, I am achieving the deep and rich color that I only see in MH tanks.

In my opinion the problem with LEDs is the user, not the LEDs themselves. I don't think people understand that you have to start out at 10-20% power. They end up shocking their corals, which take months to recover, by which point they've already tossed the LEDs.

In addition, the majority of people who can afford LEDs are already starving their corals with massive over-sized skimmers. Throwing powerful LEDs over starving corals is a recipe for disaster.

Been there done that ..:(
Took it slow and still fried some chalices but not the SPS so much .

Too many changes too quickly
A. Over sized skimmer Skimz Sk 201 cone on a 70 cube
B. Bio Pellets with a Reactor
C. Was in the process of ramping up the leds to full tilt and almost fried the SPS .
D . Doomed for disaster but I had to relocate . It saved me a lot of heartache .

[A. Grandis]

Yeah you are correct. I wrote "You decided what you wanted to do when you started this thread though didn't you.." when I meant to say "started posting in this thread". There isn't anything wrong with the OP. The OP took exception with what I wrote and I apologize because it did look like I was attacking him even though it wasn't my intent.

When I read A. Grandis write: "Wow, there are probably lots more out there changing back to their T5s from LEDs." it just seemed like he was just rationalizing his choice of T5's by using a couple of bits of anecdotal evidence to bolster his opinion. There is no need to rationalize. If you don't trust LED's will make you happy don't get them. Personally I love seeing people use all sorts of technology I might never even use to see the state of the art advanced. LED's are new but they aren't that new. T5's are proven but they weren't always so and there are probably some VHO graybeards who still snicker at them ;). Get what suits your needs and it won't matter what anybody says about it.

You are way too serious and hurt, BigKahuna!
I'm sorry if I sounded like what you're thinking.
Perhaps others will agree with you? Sorry, then.
I've got here because of my search for LEDs.
My "Wow" was mainly because I've never heard bad about LEDs before, and when people posted here I was shocked!
I don't need to justify my feelings. They come with my pocket too!!!
I'm happy with the T5s a lot and won't go LEDs, but still love to learn and really hope you can forgive me for anything and hope you can post to add something for the LEDs.

After this thread many will consider to keep their T5s, for sure.
You won't change that!
This is not about opinions only, but should be about facts and everyone here should be friendly. Again, please don't take me wrong!!

I'm still waiting for those LEDs fans to post here, please.
Relax!

Grandis.

[FishmanSam]

Has anyone used the Vertex Illumina? How does it match up to the others?

[dh350twin]

Wow this thread really took off!!!!

[A. Grandis]

Wow this thread really took off!!!!

:crazy1:

[mordibv]

Has anyone used the Vertex Illumina? How does it match up to the others?


Read Jim's earlier post in this thread .

[kc350twin]

Has anyone used the Vertex Illumina? How does it match up to the others?

Check this out


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2088048





Kc3

[A. Grandis]

Check this out


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2088048





Kc3

Thanks for the link, kc350twin!
What a nice thread!

Grandis.

[Jackie Blue]

I had an ATI fixture and recently went to DIY LED. I really enjoyed that ATI fixture and it is a very close second to LED fixtures in my opinion. With your 8 bulb fixture you will be able to have plenty of bulb options to mess around with color.

[ati70cutlass]

i dont see why everyone says , "oh only 8 months on a t5" Grim has confirmed 2 years on the same set of bulbs and they are doing similar in par and color output. i think that claim is over stated to make led's look more enticing. leds arent gonna last 50,000 hrs like they claim. ive seen several threads that back that up with realistic goals as 4-5 years.
its still a personal choice, there is no lighting system that rules all. ive seen many horror stories with leds', more than i have with t5 and mh combined. i wouldnt let people persuede me with that. id make my own educated decision. ive been persueded in the past and burnt hard... that way if you make a choice its yours.

[rtparty]

i dont see why everyone says , "oh only 8 months on a t5" Grim has confirmed 2 years on the same set of bulbs and they are doing similar in par and color output. i think that claim is over stated to make led's look more enticing. leds arent gonna last 50,000 hrs like they claim. ive seen several threads that back that up with realistic goals as 4-5 years.
its still a personal choice, there is no lighting system that rules all. ive seen many horror stories with leds', more than i have with t5 and mh combined. i wouldnt let people persuede me with that. id make my own educated decision. ive been persueded in the past and burnt hard... that way if you make a choice its yours.

You aren't going to get 2 years out of T5's. 12 months is the maximum I would ever go unless it is a fish only tank.

I guarantee Grim won't tell you to go 2 years on a set of T5's. 10 months is ideal for blue/actinic bulbs if you are running them around 8-10 hours a day.