5 day old skimmer overflowing 24/7 with foam...need help...w/pictures

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I have been running my Bubble Magus NAC5-E for five days now and I am wondering why this is happening?
I am constantly with no break overflowing with foam. So much so that it even pushed my collection cup lid up and spilled about 1/4 gallon of water.
I can keep both of my oily arms in the tank for 10 minutes and it doesn't even slow it down in the least.
I have never added any additives other than B-Ionic 2-part.
I was told I had too much oxygen in my water and that was the cause. but that doesn't make sense to me.
Looking for some insight. This doesn't seam like a normal "break-in" for a new skimmer to me...
TIA!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0190.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0191.jpg

[ZR1001]

Is this a brand new skimmer?

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

New skimmer, five days of use.
This is mostly foam, hardly any water.
The water level is as low as possible and sits ~1" below the bottom of the neck.
I also should have mentioned that I have the collection cup's drain line flowing back to the DT....and it still overflowed. (yes the overflow tubing is clear)

[Percula9]

Try doing a water change.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I have done 3-10g water changes in the last six days....two since installing the skimmer, thinking that may be the problem. No change aftewards.
My SPS are all happy as can be and polyped out.

I am about to do a ~14g water change now...which is ~40% of the volume. If that makes no difference on top of the other three 10g changes within a week, then I don't know....

[SkullV]

What is the water depth that the skimmer is sitting in. What is the blue dot on your wedge valve turned to?

[ZR1001]

could you post a pic of the sump and skimmer? These skimmers are very sensitive to the water level.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Well, got done with my ~40% water change and within 10 seconds it was back to overflowing foam with a tiny bit of water.
???

This is a hang on the back(HOB) skimmer. It was previously drawing water in through its' intake that was ~6" down into the water and had a slotted cone on the end of the pipe. Today I added a small surface skimmer box for it to pull from the top ~.75" of water in the DT. This also made the water level in the box that the skimmer is pulling from pretty level, especially compared to the hurricane in mid water it was pulling from before.
I have no sump.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Some pics...

Water level is ~1" below bottom of white ring/neck.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0194.jpg

Tried to take a shot of the new surface skimmer box, but there are too many microbubbles to see it...especially with now just two lamps on for dusk.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0196.jpg

[Gorgok]

Just for giggles try restricting the air and get us some shots of it with basically only water.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

There are more microbubbles post- ~40% water change. Does that mean anything??

Gorgok....It's scary, it is a water park amusement ride, just in minature size. It's the same if I start closing the return line stand pipe. (this is how the water level is adjusted)
I did that a few times while tinkering before posting here...

I have had multiple skimmers on multiple tanks and this doesn't seem like a normal break in...to me at least.
I suppose it could be??

The water in the tank is, model fresh out of the shower, clean....

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Went out for a few drinks and came home to a pushed up lid with overflowing skimmer. :(
What the HE** ?!?

[bigfoot610]

can you dial back the pump at all? can you restrict the amount of air going in?

i mod my skimmer cups to drain into a pail, milk jug would keep you from overflow messes

[mkengr45]

have you tried running it in some fresh water and see how the bubble production is? This is really odd for me to see because every HOB skimmer I have used was weak in the bubble production area. Are the bubbles in the chamber big bubble or tiny bubbles?

[jimrawr]

You need to tune it in by adjusting the air valve I would imagine or restricting the flow through the pump. Show us a full picture.......

[Austinchap]

Looks like some one cleaned it with dish soap.

[alanbates12]

Just a shot in the dark but do you have any GFO in a media bag? Mine did this the other day and it's 8 months old. I changed the socks and moved the media bag around and my skimmer went crazy. Did not know if it's the GFO or if the socks were not rinsed very good.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

can you dial back the pump at all? can you restrict the amount of air going in?

i mod my skimmer cups to drain into a pail, milk jug would keep you from overflow messes

Yes, but only by the standpipe being all the way open.
Yes, but that just makes it overflow faster and more water than foam.
It has a collection cup drain line going back to the DT. This made that back up(due to foam) and made the cup lid be the easy exit.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

have you tried running it in some fresh water and see how the bubble production is? This is really odd for me to see because every HOB skimmer I have used was weak in the bubble production area. Are the bubbles in the chamber big bubble or tiny bubbles?

Do you mean fresh saltwater or fresh water?
I have not yet, that will be tried today.
They start tiny in neck, but the they are mixed pouring over.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

You need to tune it in by adjusting the air valve I would imagine or restricting the flow through the pump. Show us a full picture.......

The air valve is full open, when I start to restrict it the skimmer overflows even faster but with mostly water.
You can only adjust the flow of the pump via water level in the body via the adjustable exit line standpipe...which is wide open already.(i.e. water level as low as possible)

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Just a shot in the dark but do you have any GFO in a media bag? Mine did this the other day and it's 8 months old. I changed the socks and moved the media bag around and my skimmer went crazy. Did not know if it's the GFO or if the socks were not rinsed very good.

I am running GFO in a media bag in my aquaclear 70 along with carbon and purigen. I didn't change it since the skimmer went on the tank.
Should I remove it?
No filter socks as this is sumpless.

[mojo~]

restricting air cause a pump to pull more water. Which in turn will cause it to overflow faster.

can you snap a picof the whole unit mounted on the back of the tank. This cannot be anything too difficult.

[alanbates12]

I don't think you should remove it but when I moved my bag around the skimmer went crazy. My skimmer has a drain I can use for the skimmer cup. Do you have one also. When the bubbles started I let it drain in a bucket for a little and the bubbles went down then I tuned my skimmer.

I am running GFO in a media bag in my aquaclear 70 along with carbon and purigen. I didn't change it since the skimmer went on the tank.
Should I remove it?
No filter socks as this is sumpless.

[Yinzer]

Is the water level in the skimmer area constant?

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I shut it off this morning until I can figure this out and at least try it in a seperate water container.
Am I supposed to run it in freshwater or freshly made saltwater?

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0197.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0198.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0199.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/E-A-G-L-E-S/IMG_0200.jpg

[Yinzer]

Check it in fresh to see if u still have the problem. Fresh water

[mojo~]

ok for starters lets remove the piping on the output side after the 90 going into the tank. it will splash just a little going into the tank.

second, unhook the airline from the valve and the silencer. Make sure their is no restriction anywhere on the air side.

I am just trying to make sure we dont have anything on either the input or ouput causeing either back pressure or causing it to pull to much water.

I dont believe they came with this valve or at least they didnt use too. And your air silencer is upside down. it should hang beside the cup. Not a big deal but lets just unhook it and the valve for now. Power it up and see what you have. the valve could be slightly smaller on the inside and causing extra restriction.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Will do mojo....that is factory everything except the pill bottle on the output with a hole to quiet the gurgle.
The air line tubing is much too long to use the silencer correctly, I will cut it.

[mojo~]

yea, sometimes they come in too long. They must of added the valve to help dial it in a little better. trim the airline to the length you need and dont put the silencer or valve on it yet. lmk what you get. If the pipe is wide open the water level in the skimmer should be right at thesame level as the outlet. The wedgepipe.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Not one bit of difference after removing post elbow on outlet and removing air valve and beyond on air intake.

So I need to find a container to use and fill it with fresh water next I suppose...

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

With the air valve taken off and post elbow removed with standpipe wide open and no kinking of airline.....it overflows very rapidly.
Not sure what the "wedgepipe" is.

[mojo~]

the freshwater isnt going to do anything. I am not sure what you expect. it will only slow down any break in. Does the pump use a pinwheel or is it the hybrid mesh wheel.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Pinwheel. I just thought that it shouldn't overflow in freshwater....if it did there was something really wrong. I may be wrong on that though.

[snow flake]

does the return pipe (on the left in the last pics) move up and down? did you try to close the air valve some?

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Update: I ran it in a cooler I cleaned. I filled the cooler with a fresh batch of 1.026 water that was intended for a water change at some point.
With the air valve kinked it is a turbulent mess that doesn't even reach the white ringed bottom of the neck. With the airline unkinked it fills to about 2" below the top of the neck where it pours into the cup.

**What could be in my water after a ~35% change 7 days ago, a ~30% change 5 days ago, a ~25% change 3 days ago and a ~40% change yesterday?? (with all fish healthy as can be an active and all sps polyped out and looking great through this whole time)

[mojo~]

Have you used any epoxy?

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Well....I used super glue gel(1.5 small tubes) before the skimmer and another 1.5 small tubes of super glue gel since. I also used some epoxy for my diy surface skimmer box, but that was only yesterday and this has been going on for days before that.
Could super glue gel do it on its' own? And I'm guessing that yesterdays epoxy will mess with it for a day or two? More?

[alanbates12]

What about the GFO I mentioned earlier. My skimmer did the same when I moved the media bag around. When it was sitting there it was fine but when I moved the bag to take out the sock filters my skimmer went crazy.

Maybe put it back in the cooler let it run. Then place in the media bag and see what happens. Just curious

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

So I should not run the skimmer for how long until the epoxy/glue wears off?
1 day, 2, 3, more?

If I run it it just overflows so much so that the small drain line in the collection cup can't keep up and then here comes water to my carpet.

[mojo~]

the epoxy could take a couple weeks and several water changes. itchanges teh surface tension of the water and will make your skimmer overflow all day long. water changes and running some carbon will help with this.

[mojo~]

If it is a good gfo and it has been rinsed it should not effect your skimmer. Carbon is actually a chemical way of removing Docs. If you run enough carbon and change it often you could actually pull more out of the water than a skimmer if the flow was right.

Good luck but I am pretty sure the epoxy is your issue.

Mojo~

[bigfoot610]

why does the collection cup drain back to the dispaly tank? the skimmer is completly useless skim skim skim skim dump back into display reskim ----rinse and repeat it needs to drain to a collection area outside of the tankand it should dump all the water back out for a line that size make sure its not clogged if thats the case and your fomaing that bad its because its NOT drawing anything out of the water you could be battleing something that was coating the inside of the acrylic in the skimmer as well i rinse all new equipment with hot water very well before adding it to my system to make sure theres nothing in it

[bigfoot610]

: I ran it in a cooler I cleaned. I filled the cooler with a fresh batch of 1.026 water that was intended for a water change at some point.
With the air valve kinked it is a turbulent mess that doesn't even reach the white ringed bottom of the neck. With the airline unkinked it fills to about 2" below the top of the neck where it pours into the cup.

you need to put the air valve on and dial it back to almost cut off and start there and work it up as it breaks in its like a giant seaclone skimmer is the pump on it too big aswell? i put a 1400 gph pump on a seaclone and it went nuts

[mojo~]

if you cut back the air it will pull more water and actually raise the water level inside the skimmer. when tuning it in you would dial it back like you said as it will help make a smaller bubble and fine tune the skimmate. But he has other issues and the airvalve being closed will just make matters worse at this point.

[bigfoot610]

return it :)

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

why does the collection cup drain back to the dispaly tank? the skimmer is completly useless skim skim skim skim dump back into display reskim ----rinse and repeat it needs to drain to a collection area outside of the tankand it should dump all the water back out for a line that size make sure its not clogged if thats the case and your fomaing that bad its because its NOT drawing anything out of the water you could be battleing something that was coating the inside of the acrylic in the skimmer as well i rinse all new equipment with hot water very well before adding it to my system to make sure theres nothing in it

Because it isn't actually skimming/removing anything yet.
It is just clear foam. That is why I have the drain line into the DT. Even with that, it has still overflowed my collection cup multiple times onto the floor as I stated previously in this thread.
I rinsed the skimmer thoroughly in hot water before using.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I think the pump is meant/intended for this skimmer. It runs ~630gph for a 5" x 23" body.
I always start it with the valve closed and then it eventually gets its' siphon going ansd then I open the air line.
As Mojo said, if I do not open the airline all the way it overflows even faster, but with water instead of foam.

WOW...a few weeks until the epoxy wears off?!!

[heckeng]

Bigfoot hit the nail on the head. Why are you dumping the skimmate back in the tank? You think there is nothing in the water because it is not green, but why can't the stuff be clear? What about soap? That would cause a clear liquid with high surface tension and lots of bubbles. Water conditioners of all sorts will create clear skimmate and lots of bubbles. What is your water? Is it RO/DI? It could be some chemical in the water from your main water source even, who knows. Regardless of what it is, there is stuff in your water.

Skimmers are very simple things in all reality, they mix air and water as finely as possible so that the surface tension in the water attracts the various contaminants contaminants in the water stick to the bubbles, rise, and get removed from the system. Those bubbles in your skimmer are holding together, not popping, which means that there IS stuff in your water that the skimmer is doing its best to get rid of. Waters surface tension can be changed by lots of different things being in the water--think of soap again for an easy example. Why it has been going on for so long is because you have been allowing the contaminants to get dumped right back into the tank so the skimmer has probably gotten removed the same contaminants many times over and will continue to do so until they either change form into something that doesn't cause a high surface tension of the water, OR you remove them from the system. I would start emptying that skimmer cup and dumping it down the drain instead of allowing it to go back into the tank. Everything will get better. That is a good skimmer, let it do its job! :beer:

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

It's not my source water as it reacted normally in a fresh batch outside of the tank. It is RODI. I have never used any additives other than B-Ionic 2 part. No soap as I am very careful to rinse and dry and wait after washing my hands.

I understand what you guys are saying, I will let it overflow into a 5g bucket... but I'll have to be constantly adding fresh saltwater for days.

[heckeng]

I didn't really think there was soap in there, I just think there is something in there causing it to react this way. I think you'll be fine once it is out. What skimmer were you running before?

[alanbates12]

I agree you should not be running your skimate back into the tank. Get you some fresh top off water and let your skimmer dump into a bucket until the bubbles are gone. Keep your system toped off with your fresh water as your skimmer rids your tank of whatever it's skimming. You've got something in your water and until you let the skimmer get it out it's going to act in the same way. I'll bet in 15/20 minutes it will fix it's self. Just remember to keep your water level in the tank up so the skimmer can work like it's designed to.

[ken6217]

I agree you should not be running your skimate back into the tank. Get you some fresh top off water and let your skimmer dump into a bucket until the bubbles are gone. Keep your system toped off with your fresh water as your skimmer rids your tank of whatever it's skimming. You've got something in your water and until you let the skimmer get it out it's going to act in the same way. I'll bet in 15/20 minutes it will fix it's self. Just remember to keep your water level in the tank up so the skimmer can work like it's designed to.

He needs to add back in salt water. Not fresh water. Only fresh water for evaporation. The skimmer takes out salt water.
Ken

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

He needs to add back in salt water. Not fresh water. Only fresh water for evaporation. The skimmer takes out salt water.
Ken

Yup.

[alanbates12]

My bad, Thanks.
He needs to add back in salt water. Not fresh water. Only fresh water for evaporation. The skimmer takes out salt water.
Ken

[alanbates12]

Thanks ken6217. Did not even think about how that sounded.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Update:
I made 25g of fresh saltwater. I did another 40% water change today and then started up the skimmer. I had the drain line connected to a longer hose and into a bucket.
After ~30 seconds the cup was full and now overflowing. The drain line couldn't keep up.
I turned it off, double checked everything and started it again. Same ending.
So the skimmer is now off the tank and I am fed up....

[kevin28]

I had an E-shopps do something like that try taking the foam off the outlet pipe, the foam on mine was plugging up the pipe,i had to get a different foam piece then it worked

[RotaryGeek]

Lol im getting frustrated reading this. I would just return it. Or maybe try a smaller pump for the feed pump.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I even removed about 90% of the epoxy before my ~40% water change.
The pump is having start up issues on top of it all.

[karsseboom]

Have you adjusted it properly? When Skimmers are new they always act crazy until you dial them in.

[asylumdown]

That sounds exactly like what happened with my skimmer when I went crazy with epoxy. it was a 90 gallon tank and I had just done a complete re-scape. It took many, many days for the skimmer to calm down.

If you're running the return line back in to the tank, and it was the epoxy or glue that caused this, you're just returning the substance that's causing the skimmer to go crazy back in to the tank water.

The only way for me to fix mine when it happened was to turn the skimmer off whenever I wasn't' around, then when I could be in the room to watch it at length, I let it run and run and run, constantly emptying the collection cup. It took about a week for it to completely calm down, but after 3 days I was able to let it run on the lowest setting for a couple of hours at a stretch before it would overflow.

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Well...it took two more ~30% water changes and the removal of 90% of the epoxy from my DIY surface skimmer box, but I got my skimmer to finally calm down today.
I ran it again this morning after my last water change. (with an extra 10g of freshly made SW for the liquid it would dump into my 5g bucket)
After ~4g it has almost stopped. I still need to keep the bucket there, but by tomorrow it should be perfectly good!!

On a side note....this Bubble Magus NAC5-E can really produce a lot of foam !!

[heckeng]

:beer:
:beer:
:beer:
:beer:
:beer:

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Thanks heckeng!
It has completely stopped overflowing.
Ironic thing is, this is a beastly skimmer for an HOB, which is why I bought it.
Almost zero microbubbles returning to the tank and it's producing an excellent head of foam already!

Edit: for anyone reading this thread...if you buy this skimmer, take out the prop and magnet as your first order of business. If the white spacer is on the top/prop side of the magnet move it to the bottom. I am unsure why BM has continued using them on top for over a year when that clearly causes rubbing and grinding of the pinwheel and both is loud as can be and I'm guessing unproductive for skimming.
i.e., youtube search this skimmer and you will find a couple with the loud 'clacking' noise.
I made this known to BM two weeks ago. That they will now ship them this way is anyones guess.