Losing sleep over my DIY everything

[BaronVonDango]

So...I worked @ a pet store long enough to get some fish tanks, filters, heaters, etc.....Nothing spectacular.

I decided I wanted to go with saltwater so aside from the Tank and the pumps I Built it All. I am fairly confident in my skills building everything...I just have some worries and questions.

First, here is my setup.

55 gallon tank. 20lbs live rock from LFS and 40lbs agrocrete. 3-4inch live sand/crushed coral.
Power heads on opposite sides pointing different ways.
DIY pvc overflow 1.5 inch diameter down to 10 gal sump.

Sump Layout goes intake, baffle, bubble trap baffle, baffle, fuge, pump chamber.
the fuge has a 3ft tall 3.5 inch pvc cannister filter that sprays water into the protein skimmer in the first chamber, thus mixing it with drained aquarium water to hopefully take a little load off the filtration process. I also plan on Chaeto sometime when the dummies where I live learn what it is someday.

the water in the pump chamber goes back up to the display, creating a very strong current which the puffers play in all the time.

1. Is it normal for the water in the sump to constantly fluctuate where the pump is? before it gets too low the overflow goes Schrwoolololoooopppppthfffft and it fills back up. I feel like I can't leave the room without thinking that is just unsafe and my dogs are going to be salty when i get home.

Does this filter system sound sufficient in the long term? The only thing I have had die were victims of my Puffer Fish. The saddest was the urchin plucking.

If you need pics or utube vid i can do

Please and thank you.

[JasonBJones]

I think pictures would help a lot, much easier than trying to visualize everything.

[WingoLED]

I quick glance over your post but did not read it in details as I am dead tired now.

So I am assume quite a bit from your description. It sounds like you have the classic water closet flushing issue. Do a search for dorsal pipe, been animal and herbie overflow design.




So...I worked @ a pet store long enough to get some fish tanks, filters, heaters, etc.....Nothing spectacular.

I decided I wanted to go with saltwater so aside from the Tank and the pumps I Built it All. I am fairly confident in my skills building everything...I just have some worries and questions.

First, here is my setup.

55 gallon tank. 20lbs live rock from LFS and 40lbs agrocrete. 3-4inch live sand/crushed coral.
Power heads on opposite sides pointing different ways.
DIY pvc overflow 1.5 inch diameter down to 10 gal sump.

Sump Layout goes intake, baffle, bubble trap baffle, baffle, fuge, pump chamber.
the fuge has a 3ft tall 3.5 inch pvc cannister filter that sprays water into the protein skimmer in the first chamber, thus mixing it with drained aquarium water to hopefully take a little load off the filtration process. I also plan on Chaeto sometime when the dummies where I live learn what it is someday.

the water in the pump chamber goes back up to the display, creating a very strong current which the puffers play in all the time.

1. Is it normal for the water in the sump to constantly fluctuate where the pump is? before it gets too low the overflow goes Schrwoolololoooopppppthfffft and it fills back up. I feel like I can't leave the room without thinking that is just unsafe and my dogs are going to be salty when i get home.

Does this filter system sound sufficient in the long term? The only thing I have had die were victims of my Puffer Fish. The saddest was the urchin plucking.

If you need pics or utube vid i can do

Please and thank you.

[coralnut99]

Taking a guess here, but the ebb and flow effect may be coming from the plumbing run that drains in to the sump. It may have a slightly flat spot in the run that lets water collect until there's enough pressure behind it and then pushes it along.

[110galreef]

I quick glance over your post but did not read it in details as I am dead tired now.

So I am assume quite a bit from your description. It sounds like you have the classic water closet flushing issue. Do a search for dorsal pipe, been animal and herbie overflow design.

i think you mean durso pipe drain....

Yeah it sounds like you are getting a siphon in your drain, which suck all the water out of the overflow really quick and thus the water level in the sump rises and flushing sound, then the siphon is broke in the overflow when it empties, making gurgling noise and the process starts over as the overflow fills back up.

You need to create a durso setup for you drain or a hebie method, or bean animal drain.

They all can be found on here

[BaronVonDango]

Here are the pictures, I apologize for the delay. Some guy offered to sell me 500 cats and when I went to check them out they were all dogs so I punched him in the face. his wife tried shooting me, etc...

anywaysss


they are in chronological order from the drain through the plumbing and back to the tank.

the side view of my sump goes from left to right. the last chamber holds the pumps. the pump closest to u pumps water to my canister back to the fisrt chamber to mix with dirty water...

of course, i can eplain a little better if needed.

[BaronVonDango]

Taking a guess here, but the ebb and flow effect may be coming from the plumbing run that drains in to the sump. It may have a slightly flat spot in the run that lets water collect until there's enough pressure behind it and then pushes it along.

by flat spot do u mean level piping???

[sweetleaf]

If the first picture is your overflow to the sump, you should probably try and drastically change this system, preferably by either drilling the tank and installing a herbie, durso, or personal preference (but requires 3 holes), the beananimal design or purchasing an overflow designed to fit on the back of your tank.

Otherwise, you will constantly be worrying about your home-made system. Their are places where ingenuity and some DIY skills are an awesome way to save some money while building a tank. An overflow however, is not where one should take chances. Too much rides on the steady, safe flow of water to and from the sump.

[BaronVonDango]

The tank has a tempered sticker on it or I would have had it drilled on day 1. it was only 20 bucks for 55 gal.

The triple piped herbie thing looks like it makes more sense and looks nicer.
Im not sure of the concept of the durso pipe.
Is it pretty much a downward pointing intake with an air vent on top? could I incorporate that onto my current overflow successfully?

another question: as far as flow rate does it matter how far under the surface the intake is? besides the fact of flooding in a power outage.

[BaronVonDango]

im sure u guys have seen this overflow that i made.

the plans i followed said to put the vent on the long pipe.

should i also have one on the elbows that loop over the aquarium?

alot of people use this design successfully I hear about. may be air is gettting trapped in it. just a guess? I have a few fail safe ideas I am working on....and overflow in the sump to a bucket since I have such a small sump 10g and I poked a hole in the output so it would lose syphon when i turn off pump.

[BaronVonDango]

I like the bean animal herbie mostly for its name. I might name my next dog bean animal.

I quick glance over your post but did not read it in details as I am dead tired now.

So I am assume quite a bit from your description. It sounds like you have the classic water closet flushing issue. Do a search for dorsal pipe, been animal and herbie overflow design.

[obaptista]

It appears you have a siphon down and you are throttling it with a ball valve. The swoosh sound appears to be that your pump is moving more water than is coming down. Then your drain catches up because of any number of reasons. The problem with this setup is that you must tune the siphon to match the return pump exactly. This is nearly impossible for many reasons. Also, you may get it close but eventually it will get out of sync and you have "swooshing" or a wet floor. My first suggestion is get a new tank and drill. Or, get a commercially available overflow box and replace the elbow section. It will work but many of these boxes accumulate bubbles and the siphon breaks. Or, lastly, if it must be diy, take out the valve and replace with another PVC U and add an air hole or standpipe. Also, change the U in the tank so the water is skimmed from the top and not at 90deg to the water level as it is now. The second U and the first U in the tank will keep a siphon. Once the water in the tank gets to the top of the U the water in the siphon area will spill over the U outside of the tank. Because you have a standpipe or airhole, the water will freefall down to the sump. You can throttle the whole system using the pump. Issues with this include: the pipe is not transparent, if bubbles get into the siphon, you will not see it. HTH

[coralnut99]

by flat spot do u mean level piping???

Yeah, I was picturing a long cross-the-back-of-the-tank run to one side of the sump that was just tilted toward that end before it hits a 90 elbow. With the pics, I agree the issue is the ball valve on the drain. Basically causes the same symptoms.

[BaronVonDango]

Ok, so....change the drain to a straight pipe and remove the ball valve?

As of now I have to diy until I get a job. Id reeeeeealy love a drilled tank...

[coralnut99]

Yup. A quick fix is to just leave the ball valve wide open.

Job or none, the cost and just the nature of this hobby make DIY just a necessity. It has elements in almost any settup/scenario.

[obaptista]

I disagree with just tanking out the valve. If you do that the flow will overpower the siphon and the waterlevel in the tank will drop till you suck air and break the siphon. Open the valve some more until you get the swoosh less often. However, the less often you get it, the closer you are to a siphon break.

[coralnut99]

I had to take another look at the second picture, and I think I have to agree on not opening the ball valve now. But I'm having trouble figuring out just how the water gets into the drain line now. A slightly wider view would be a help I think.

[BaronVonDango]

well. the drain is submerged. I suck like crazy on the hose until water starts gurgling. should have used water hose and not air hose. i smoke cigs and it kills my lungs sucing that much pressure. i will take a better picture... i will move all the fake plants first

[eznet2u]

Lose the Stainless Steel hose clamps. The bands are SS, but the screws are not.
If you decide to add Coral later, these may cause problems.

Check your local hardware store for the plastic ones.

[BaronVonDango]

Lose the Stainless Steel hose clamps. The bands are SS, but the screws are not.
If you decide to add Coral later, these may cause problems.

Check your local hardware store for the plastic ones.



i totally plan on getting them, They ran out and I had them laying around.
Thanks for the pointer. Luckily I still have poop lights until my birthday this month :) so I have not added corals yet...which is good because I am still investigating my options

[jimmyj7090]

That drain system needs to be completely redone. Relying on a restricted siphion without a back up has a %100 chance of catastrophic failure. If you ever were able to get it tuned just right so that it drains smoothly, it will still get out of tune agian in short time. Beyond that, one snail, chunk of algae, or anything that gets in sucked in there will obstruct the flow and the tank will be overflowing.

You need to either drill and add a Duroso, Herbie, or Bean drain - or Get a hang on back overflow (much less desirable).

[BaronVonDango]

Great news. I switched to the straight pipe. Ill get some pics of it and my pump chamber staying in the safe zone.
I cut a piece of pipe to mount the plastic grill in the hole and I stick a sock over it for when I feed the fish.
The ball valve is open. That's all I did differently.
thanks for all the advice.
Now in the event the display tank gets too low, is there a good way to prevent the pump from sucking the sump dry? And how high over the drain can the waterline be?