Harlequin Tuskfish - An ugly duckling?

[aragonite55]

Been after one of these for the best part of a year. All the pics I've seen in books and on the Internet have shown these absolutely stunning gold, turquoise, blue and green specimens. All the ones I've seen in LFS have been off white and brown fairly dull little fish. I am after a juvenile(less than three inches)which is about the size of all the ones I've seen. On asking two of the LFS about this disparity in colour their answers were pretty much the same "Oh they colour up as they get older, all juvis look like this". Having done some research I know the most colourful specimens are reputed to be Aussie fish, and dont mind paying a premium for a fish from this location(a fact I also mentioned to the LFS). My question is do these fish colour up dratically as they mature, or am I being spun a yarn by my LFS. Thanks in advance for any replies.

[kirkaz]

Uh, I think you have your Harlequins confused.....Harlequin Sweetlips = Brown and off white.....juvi Harlequin Tusk are less brilliant orange, but not brown.

There are 2 slightly different varieties of H. Tusk though. Indo Pacific and Aussie H. Tusk, the Indo Pacific are colored less brilliantly than the Aussies, very uncommon to see a small Aussie Tusk due to the way they are captured, they are almost always 5-7 inches, and $200 or that area. If you want a small one, you will likely have to settle for the less expensive, less colorful Indo variety.

Live Aquaria does a great job of showing the difference in the 2 varieties.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1379+380&pcatid=380

[MrTuskfish]

Uh, I think you have your Harlequins confused.....Harlequin Sweetlips = Brown and off white.....juvi Harlequin Tusk are less brilliant orange, but not brown.

There are 2 slightly different varieties of H. Tusk though. Indo Pacific and Aussie H. Tusk, the Indo Pacific are colored less brilliantly than the Aussies, very uncommon to see a small Aussie Tusk due to the way they are captured, they are almost always 5-7 inches, and $200 or that area. If you want a small one, you will likely have to settle for the less expensive, less colorful Indo variety.

Live Aquaria does a great job of showing the difference in the 2 varieties.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1379+380&pcatid=380
Exactly! The pic in kirkaz's link is the best side-by-side of the two HTs I've seen.
Green and gold are not HT colors, they're Packer colors. (What a co-incidence; couldn't pass it up!). Juvi tusks are very shy and hard to come by. Tusks do get more colorful with age, especially Aussies. Australian tusks are seasonal and will soon be in short supply. LA has some nice ones now; I've never seen a good Australian harlequin tusk at a LFS; although that doesn't mean they don't exist. If this is what you're looking for, I'd get one from LA as soon as you're ready....they won't be around long.

[aragonite55]

Thanks for the reply Kirkaz. There certainly is a big difference between the two locations looking at the link you provided. I live in the UK,and there are a lot of the smaller, duller, presumably Indian Ocean fish. Some which are under three inches being labelled by LFS as Barrier Reef fish, perhaps misleadingly. Do the juveniles from the two regions develop more colour as they mature or is it more a case of WYSIWYG? Another possible misnomer which is bandied about in the UK, is that only the Aussie fish have the blue teeth, something which the link you provided disagrees with. It may be of some interest, prices for the smaller fish is approx. fifty to sixty pounds, and a large mature specimen(over six inches)will max at about one hundred pounds. Seems like I might have to bide my time for a larger more colourful one.

[aragonite55]

Exactly! The pic in kirkaz's link is the best side-by-side of the two HTs I've seen.
Green and gold are not HT colors, they're Packer colors. (What a co-incidence; couldn't pass it up!). Juvi tusks are very shy and hard to come by. Tusks do get more colorful with age, especially Aussies. Australian tusks are seasonal and will soon be in short supply. LA has some nice ones now; I've never seen a good Australian harlequin tusk at a LFS; although that doesn't mean they don't exist. If this is what you're looking for, I'd get one from LA as soon as you're ready....they won't be around long.

Cheers Mr Tuskfish. Not too sure I'd be able to get that fish back from LA. Do the Packers play baseball..........................(only kidding).

[MrTuskfish]

Cheers Mr Tuskfish. Not too sure I'd be able to get that fish back from LA. Do the Packers play baseball..........................(only kidding).

Nope, they play REAL football.

[aragonite55]

Nope, they play REAL football.

Not the original though.

[MrTuskfish]

Not the original though.

No, not the original football; but a vastly improved version. I will, however give your Homeland credit for Cork, the world's best gin. Oh yeah, that wonderful stuff is distilled in Ireland now. Sorry.

Just to stay on the thread; its quite difficult to tell the origin of very small tusks. If you can trust the dealer and his wholesaler, price is often the only way to tell the origin of juvis. Color really intensifies with age. Be careful with unusually bright colors; many indo_pacific tusks are still caught with cyanide and overly-intense color is a sure sign of cyanide poisoning.

[albano]

.....juvi Harlequin Tusk are less brilliant orange, but not brown.

IMO...'color (beauty) is in the eye of the beholder' ...Juvi HT appear to be brown and white...2 LFS had them in stock, a week ago when I visited, and the 'dark orange' stripes can definately look brown.

[aragonite55]

No, not the original football; but a vastly improved version. I will, however give your Homeland credit for Cork, the world's best gin. Oh yeah, that wonderful stuff is distilled in Ireland now. Sorry.

Just to stay on the thread; its quite difficult to tell the origin of very small tusks. If you can trust the dealer and his wholesaler, price is often the only way to tell the origin of juvis. Color really intensifies with age. Be careful with unusually bright colors; many indo_pacific tusks are still caught with cyanide and overly-intense color is a sure sign of cyanide poisoning.

What sort of price difference is there in the US between Tusks from the Indian Ocean and Aussie ones?

[aragonite55]

IMO...'color (beauty) is in the eye of the beholder' ...Juvi HT appear to be brown and white...2 LFS had them in stock, a week ago when I visited, and the 'dark orange' stripes can definately look brown.

I agree Albano, the ones I've seen recently in the UK have been more brown than orange, could of been simply down to the lighting though.

[albano]

I agree Albano, the ones I've seen recently in the UK have been more brown than orange, could of been simply down to the lighting though.
it's not the lighting...

[whipsaw]

What sort of price difference is there in the US between Tusks from the Indian Ocean and Aussie ones?

my lfs gets both on occasion, usually ~4" adults. IO's go for $100-$120, Oz fish go for $180+.

I believe LA gets both every now and then, and their prices are listed even when out of stock. Their Aussies go for about twice the price of the more common localities. Looks like they have a couple atm, $190 and $230 before shipping for the medium and large respectively.

[aragonite55]

my lfs gets both on occasion, usually ~4" adults. IO's go for $100-$120, Oz fish go for $180+.

I believe LA gets both every now and then, and their prices are listed even when out of stock. Their Aussies go for about twice the price of the more common localities. Looks like they have a couple atm, $190 and $230 before shipping for the medium and large respectively.

Thank you.

[whipsaw]

quite welcome.

and regarding color I agree with all here.
I've kept juvi's, they're pretty pale brown and silver or clear with a touch of orange.

I've kept one Australian, gorgeous brilliant colors.
I've had a few Indian Ocean fish over the last 15 years, still amazing but not as boldly colored as their Australian cousins.

once they get their adult colors they really don't seem to change much in my tanks. You can't tell their mood by their colors. Pretty much WYSIWYG.

[MrTuskfish]

Aussie tusks are often a 'weekly special" fish at LA; serious savings (at least $30). Buying a tusk also makes it easier to get to the $225 free shipping too. However, I think it may be a bit late in the season now. As long as they have them in stock, if you want one, check the weekly specials every friday.

[whipsaw]

Aussie tusks are often a 'weekly special" fish at LA; serious savings (at least $30). Buying a tusk also makes it easier to get to the $225 free shipping too. However, I think it may be a bit late in the season now. As long as they have them in stock, if you want one, check the weekly specials every friday.

Nice tip!

[Sonicblast12]

quite welcome.

and regarding color I agree with all here.
I've kept juvi's, they're pretty pale brown and silver or clear with a touch of orange.

I've kept one Australian, gorgeous brilliant colors.
I've had a few Indian Ocean fish over the last 15 years, still amazing but not as boldly colored as their Australian cousins.

once they get their adult colors they really don't seem to change much in my tanks. You can't tell their mood by their colors. Pretty much WYSIWYG.

The stripes along the body fade on my 8" Aussie HT.

[whipsaw]

interesting...

I've never had one that big though. How long have you had it?
Does it fade right before lights-out? My smaller HT's didn't seem to have faded sleeping colors, one of the few fish I've seen that didn't. (as far as I could tell.) Maybe mine just weren't very moody, I certainly spent thousands of hours watching them. Fascinating animals.

[kirkaz]

I have had my indo Tusk for over 3 years now, a nice fish, but I really regret not getting the Aussie, the biggest bonus to the Aussie's is their blue teeth are much bluer than the indo variety. I came close to trading mine in for Aussie, but the wife gave me "you're not getting rid Harley!" Oh well.

[Sonicblast12]

interesting...

I've never had one that big though. How long have you had it?
Does it fade right before lights-out? My smaller HT's didn't seem to have faded sleeping colors, one of the few fish I've seen that didn't. (as far as I could tell.) Maybe mine just weren't very moody, I certainly spent thousands of hours watching them. Fascinating animals.

I've only had the tusk about three months or so. The three orange bands on the back half of the fish fade and almost look translucent, the gray/blue color overpowers the orange. Almost looks like someone ripped the stripes off.

As far as I can tell it's completely random. I'll try to get a picture if I see it again.

What's a real shame is when your beautiful 8" Aussie Tusk tries to carpet surf, smacks into the glass lid and breaks off those awesome blue teeth! Twice!

[aragonite55]

interesting...

I've never had one that big though. How long have you had it?
Does it fade right before lights-out? My smaller HT's didn't seem to have faded sleeping colors, one of the few fish I've seen that didn't. (as far as I could tell.) Maybe mine just weren't very moody, I certainly spent thousands of hours watching them. Fascinating animals.

What size did you buy your different Tusks at? What size did they attain? And were they all considerably more colourful as adults compared to their juvi colours? Thanks to yourself and anyone else who has taken the time to respond to my OP.

[myram]

I had a 5" aussie HT in my 150, it was my favorite fish of all. It got the most comments and people always noticed him over all the other fish in there. Back then, about 10 years ago, I think I paid about $150 for it.

Steve

[whipsaw]

Sonicblast12, owch! I've never had a jumper before. Better a tooth or two than the whole fish though, huh? Congrats on finding such a large Aussie. I'd love to see pics of your tusk when you get the chance, one of the coolest fish around.

What size did you buy your different Tusks at? What size did they attain? And were they all considerably more colourful as adults compared to their juvi colours? Thanks to yourself and anyone else who has taken the time to respond to my OP.

Man I'm bad with fish. I've spent most of the last 15 years killing them, mostly because I moved three times during that time. Also I take a lot of long vacations, and my fish often die if I'm gone longer than two weeks.

The longest I ever kept one was 5 years, an Aussie HT that I bought at about 4 inches. It might have been about 6 inches long when it died, but I kept it in an overstocked 55g tank, way too small, and I fed it flakes and turbo snails, not a great diet.

I can't remember how many IO tusks I've had, I'd have to check old photo albums to make a guess. I think they were all about 4 inches when I bought them and I didn't have any of them more than a year so they didn't grow noticeably. The most recent one I had was a couple years ago. Had him for almost a year, then went snorkeling in Hawaii for a few weeks and had my sister-in-law taking care of the fish. Didn't work out, I lost my tusk and a porcupine puffer probably due to confusion about my feeding instructions.

The first juvie I bought was about 3/4 inch, it died the first day in QT. I took it back to the lfs and got one slightly larger. Maybe 1 inch. It survived QT and made it to my DT. It was dull brownish-orange and silver when I got it, and a nice bright carrot orange and white with blue and red when it got eaten by a predatory hermit crab about 9 months later. The adult colors were considerably brighter than the juvie, way better looking. About the only colorful part on the juvenile was the eye-spot on the anal fin which looked about like the adult colors. Both juvies were Indian Ocean fish. I had some difficulty getting the surviving one to eat at first, and it was considerably more shy than any adult HT I've ever had. Once he went into my DT I didn't see him often. He was about 1 inch when I got him, and about 2.5 inches when he got eaten.

I'll probably get another one someday, but I'm not in any hurry. I want to make sure I can keep it alive for 10 or 20 years. The one Sonicblast12 has is exactly what I want- an 8" (or larger) Australian. From what I've seen they're slow growers and probably top out in the 8-10 inch range. I've never had an adult one that wasn't a voracious eater from day one, or that was shy or mean. It's one of the few fish I'd rather buy as a medium or large adult than a small fish.

[whipsaw]

Hunted down a picture of the last one I had, a 4" Indian Ocean specimen I got for about $60 iirc. He ate all of my ~$400 CUC within 3 months. Picture's blury, doesn't really show the thin blue stripes. Going through my old pictures looking for one of the juvi for comparison. I can't remember if I got any, he was pretty shy.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=5284&pictureid=36787

[aragonite55]

Being a bit cheeky now, any chance of pics of juvis or adults? Preferably both.

[aragonite55]

Hunted down a picture of the last one I had, a 4" Indian Ocean specimen I got for about $60 iirc. He ate all of my ~$400 CUC within 3 months. Picture's blury, doesn't really show the thin blue stripes. Going through my old pictures looking for one of the juvi for comparison. I can't remember if I got any, he was pretty shy.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=5284&pictureid=36787

Thanks mate, just what I'm after. Nice fish too.

[whipsaw]

Thanks, I like both color varieties for sure. Both types are stunning fish.
I couldn't find any pics of my juvies, but I found something similar with an online image search. This one looks like an IO morph based on the prominence of the eye spots. Just starting to change. The ones I had looked like this without the orange and blue on the face at first. Just tiny silvery-white fish with brown stripes. The other difference was the lower eye spot, which was bright red with orange and blue like an adult fin looks in the ones I bought.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=5284&pictureid=36788

[Sonicblast12]

Sonicblast12, owch! I've never had a jumper before. Better a tooth or two than the whole fish though, huh? Congrats on finding such a large Aussie. I'd love to see pics of your tusk when you get the chance, one of the coolest fish around.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05113.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05135.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05305.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05285.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05309.jpg

[aragonite55]

Great pics of a great looking fish, thanks.

[whipsaw]

That made me smile! :rollface:
great looking animal, and nice job with the camera too!
I see what you're saying about color change... looks like his back saddle changes a bit in darkness and size as well. Just an amazing fish, I'm so jealous! Thanks for posting.

[JSeymour]

Thought I'd post about mine. I received my tusk back in February direct from SeaDwelling. It was sold as a baby Aussie at 2", although I'm doubting this. Here he is fresh out of quarantine.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4692&pictureid=36845
And about a week later.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4692&pictureid=36848
And a pic taken a couple days ago, as he was waking up. He's about 5 inches now.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4692&pictureid=36849

They definitely show Packers colors too. :)

[aragonite55]

Nice fish regardless of location. Be good to see comparison pics side by side of an Indo juvi and an Aussie juvi.

[JSeymour]

It would be nice to see what an Aussie juvie looks like. I'm pretty sure mines not a real Aussie. Once I had my HT juvie, I tried and tried to find a pic of an Aussie for comparison. No luck. SeaDwelling is pretty straight forward with me, so my only though was maybe these juvies came from the Northern Coast, possibly even Java, Bali, or New Guinea, instead of the Barrier Reef area, and therefore not REAL Aussies.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=4692&pictureid=36859

Added: And I take that back, he's only about 4 inches body length.

[whipsaw]

From what I've seen and read the Australian morph lacks the postero-dorsal eyespot at all stages of growth. So juvies with two back eyespots are Indo-Pacific... as far as I know. I've never actually seen a juvie Australian though, they aren't commonly collected.

[JSeymour]

From what I've seen and read the Australian morph lacks the postero-dorsal eyespot at all stages of growth. So juvies with two back eyespots are Indo-Pacific... as far as I know. I've never actually seen a juvie Australian though, they aren't commonly collected.

I've never read that before, although just looking through pics, it seems to ring true. Do you know where you read this?

The closest pics I could find of a definite adult Indo HT are these two pics, but they look more like sub-adults judging by their shape.

http://www.tfhmagazine.com/assets/012/24505_400wh.jpg
Picture stolen without permission from Hardy and Fashionable: The Harlequin Tuskfish (http://www.tfhmagazine.com/saltwater-reef/feature-articles/hardy-and-fashionable-the-harlequin-tuskfish.htm). Picture taken by Ed Wong.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3063/3101094039_90f7680075.jpg
Picture stolen without permission from A Trip to Manila Ocean Park Oceanarium (http://debicody.blogspot.com/2008/12/trip-to-manila-ocean-park-oceanarium.html). Picture taken by Debi and Cody.

And then there is Ron DeCloux's pics on flickr. I'm sure this is an adult Indo, but no locale is listed. Ron DeCloux's Harlequin Tuskfish (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cas_docents/3186634188/sizes/z/in/photostream/)

So does anyone out there have an adult pic of an Indo-Pacific HT they can post?

[whipsaw]

I've never read that before, although just looking through pics, it seems to ring true. Do you know where you read this?

I wish I did, but I can't remember. After searching around online it would seem that it simply isn't true. Not sure if RC allows linking to WWM, but I'll give it a try. If the link isn't allowed I guess someone will tell me...

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/choerodon/faciata.htm

[albano]

Not sure if RC allows linking to WWM,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/choerodon/faciata.htm
well, thank you... there is the pic of the 'brown' juvi that OP was talking about
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/choerodon/images/Choerodon_fasciataJUV2.jpg

[JSeymour]

I wish I did, but I can't remember. After searching around online it would seem that it simply isn't true. Not sure if RC allows linking to WWM, but I'll give it a try. If the link isn't allowed I guess someone will tell me...

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/choerodon/faciata.htm

See I had noticed that too, assuming your talking about this pic.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/choerodon/images/Choerodon_fasciataAUST.jpg
Picture stolen without permission from A Gentle Bruiser of a Wrasse, The Harlequin Tuskfish, Choerodon (Lienardella) fasciata (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/choerodon/faciata.htm). Picture by Bob Fenner.

I don't believe the caption, "Images of adults ( 5-6 inches overall length), in captivity. The first adult is a Philippine specimen; the other two adult pictures feature a "bluish" individuals out of Australia." includes this pic in it. You'll note, it does not have the "bluish"-ness described, as pic 2 and 4 have. IMO, it has just as much "bluish"-ness as the first pic. I could be wrong of course, as Bob has a great, accurate website and I have not emailed him for clarification.

[whipsaw]

yeah, those were the pics. I also would have pegged 1 and 3 for IO specimens and the other two as Australian.

reading FAQ's on WWM as well- JasonC and Bob both mention that the only way to distinguish the two reliably is price.

from what I'm seeing though the two appear distinctive even if they overlap some... the Australians seem to have a redder tinge to the orange, larger black backsaddles going all the way to the face, and wider blue outlines to the stripes. I'd say even if not all of the Aussies look like that, those are the ones we pay top dollar for.

[JSeymour]

yeah, those were the pics. I also would have pegged 1 and 3 for IO specimens and the other two as Australian.

reading FAQ's on WWM as well- JasonC and Bob both mention that the only way to distinguish the two reliably is price.

from what I'm seeing though the two appear distinctive even if they overlap some... the Australians seem to have a redder tinge to the orange, larger black backsaddles going all the way to the face, and wider blue outlines to the stripes. I'd say even if not all of the Aussies look like that, those are the ones we pay top dollar for.

Same here, just confused about mine, I paid good money for my "Aussie" juvie. :/