Emperor and Queen Angel Photos

[Sonicblast12]

Some new friends came into the fold in the past couple of weeks.

Here's how it started, my male bluethroat flipped a switch and started tearing apart his tankmates including ripping the tail off of a beautiful gold stripe maroon that had been in the same tank for over a year. I doubt the fish makes it, still hanging in there in a hospital tank but isn't looking good. The bluethroat began battling the niger trigger and they both had torn fins and bites on the body, then began going after the indian trigger who responded by nearly tearing off the bluethroat's pectoral fin.

So, I took my bluethroat pair and plopped them into the 75 gallon until I figure out what to do with them. With triggers, you just never know. They are a bit cramped, but at 5 and 4 inches they should be alright for awhile.

So I went to get some frozen and found a fish that I have always wanted, Pomacanthus imperator. I had been looking for the smallest juvenile I could find for obvious reasons and hadn't really found a good specimen. Saw one at the LFS and decided to take the plunge, especially since 9 inches of fat triggers were evicted from the 125.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05884.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05903.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05901.jpg

Eating a bit of mysis but mainly chowing on nori and picking at rocks. 2 inch fish, maybe...after doing research I decided to add it to the display tank so it would have more surface area to forage while learning to accept prepared foods. A fish this small needs to eat constantly so I didn't think a bare QT was the way to go. I had the eggcrate on standby and held my breath as I added the little one to the display. Fearless fish despite being the smallest one in the tank by far, no aggression at all from any of the other fish.

And of course, bombed the tank with ich. I was prepared for that, but a little annoyed at myself as I dropped the tank to hypo on Halloween night. All of the fish are clean again, but the emp had a great time picking the parasites off of the other fish. Other than the ich, the imperator has acclimated very well despite its small size.

Here's my 6" powder blue getting a quick cleaning.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05923.jpg

[Sonicblast12]

Two days after I added the imperator I went to Petco...and couldn't really believe what I saw. A 3.5 inch sub adult queen angel for $49.99. Show stopper. I groaned and stood watching the tank for an hour, already knowing she was coming home with me. That $49.99 is going to cost me a couple of thousand before I know it!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05891.jpg


Anyway, since the display was already in hypo I decided to drip the queen down to 1.009 over a couple of hours and just add the queen to the display. I didn't really consider the eggcrate since none of the fish bothered the imperator. That was a mistake. The powder blue tang went nuts and immediately took a big slash out of one of the fins and was weaving tight circles around the new queen. The most aggressive flame angel in the world came over and started trying to bite the streamers. I was furious, slapping the tank trying to get the bullies to leave her alone. A mirror on the other side of tank did the trick, now all is well.

She is a gorgeous, and eats like a horse. I really with I could get a picture of the imperator cleaning the queen, that was quite a sight.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05920.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC06011.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC05925.jpg

[palmer373]

Wow beautiful I'm really jealous!

[Sonicblast12]

I don't think any 6' tank will cover this load long term. I wonder how long I'll have to grow this pair before they need more space.

So for my SIXTH tank upgrade, I'm thinking it needs to be an 8' tank...minimum. Yes?

[NiTr0x911]

Beautiful Fish Sonic ! I never buy from our local Petco due to terrible holding tanks they have.BUT if they did have a queen like you posted,I would estimate them selling it for 90-100 bucks at least.Great looking fish at an incredible price..Nice score!:thumbsup:

[Sonicblast12]

You should've seen their tangs. I was furious. IMO, they shouldn't carry any saltwater fish that can't be housed in a 55 because those are the biggest tanks they carry. But I always see half dead naso tangs, doomed powder blue tangs and groupers suffering in those little 10g cubes.

Can't complain too much because I've gotten some great fish for a song from Petco, but they are always sick.

DD had a queen this same size and coloration for over $200 last week. I think someone screwed up at the 'ole Petco, this queen is easily a $100 fish. It's actually right at 4" after measuring again.

[clowntriggerfis]

Those are awesome angels.

[Johanv]

I got a cherub angelfish for $5 at petco, they mistaked it for a damsel lol and i also purple cap basselt for $12, mistaked it for a royal garrama so i guess it was a win win for me : )

[whipsaw]

Amazing deal on the little queen! I guess I need to shop Petco more often...

[Sonicblast12]

Does anyone have a tip to get this little emperor to eat pellets? It's showing less and less interest in pellets and more and more interest in nori. The problem is that it's hard to feed the nori without the other fish ripping it off the side of the tank and scattering it everywhere. I'm trying to make barricades using mag floats so only the angel can pass, but the triggers are too smart and find a way around.

Really I just want to make sure the little guy is eating his fill of something every day, and it would be nice to get him eating from the trough. Refilling the nori clip six times a day isn't the best for water quality.

[nonstopfishies]

Do you soak in a vitamin supplement? I think it is a good idea by itself, and when your angel eats that supplement on food like nori he will then associate that smell/taste with food. So, then you can soak the pellets and he should go after them.

On a different note, you don't like how Petco treats fish, so you support them?

Start building that upgrade now, you have a lot of big fish and will need a large large tank for them now/soon.

[nonstopfishies]

You could do the same with juice from mysis shrimp or something else as well.

[Sonicblast12]

My pellets are soaked in vitachem and selcon, but I haven't been soaking the nori. I suppose it couldn't hurt. Most fish graduate over to the pellets in a week or so

As for Petco...it is what it is. What I do isn't going to make a difference one way or another. I'm not concerned about me, I'm concerned about the people picking out a fish and saying, "Oh, this is saltwater?"

The upgrade is an obvious move, but I do have some time. I don't say the following as a justification for cramming two large angels in a 125, I want to make that clear. It isn't a long term move. Texas State Aquarium has a full size queen angel and you'd need a swimming pool to house that monster, so I know how massive they get. Anyway...

You often read on this forum about the importance of the length of the tank and how many gallons. I roll my eyes when I see people with huge tangs and angels in large tanks that are stacked full of rock...the ones that are "doing it right." Doesn't matter how many gallons the tank if the fish can't turn around. You see these tanks with less than six inches of room along the substrate and no option for the fish to go front to back. But not a word is said if they present that magic tank size.

I don't aquascape tanks like most people, I use very little rock in high flow bare bottom tanks. They look a little sterile and unfinished to the casual observer, but I like the focus to be on the fish. Now almost all of the 72x18x23 is open swimming area. Cuts down on aggression and every fish in the tank has it's own path from one side to the other. IMO, large fish need at least the top 50% of the tank open for swimming, and if you have more than one tang there need to be at least two swimming lanes pacing the of the tank along the substrate. I think all of the walls to the tank should be free, especially for tangs. That way they can swim loops around the whole tank instead of pacing a panel, stopping, and turning around back the other way.

There are many ways to utilize aquariums, and in my opinion a lot of people are cutting their tank size in half with all of the rock.

[nonstopfishies]

My pellets are soaked in vitachem and selcon, but I haven't been soaking the nori. I suppose it couldn't hurt. Most fish graduate over to the pellets in a week or so

As for Petco...it is what it is. What I do isn't going to make a difference one way or another. I'm not concerned about me, I'm concerned about the people picking out a fish and saying, "Oh, this is saltwater?"

The upgrade is an obvious move, but I do have some time. I don't say the following as a justification for cramming two large angels in a 125, I want to make that clear. It isn't a long term move. Texas State Aquarium has a full size queen angel and you'd need a swimming pool to house that monster, so I know how massive they get. Anyway...

You often read on this forum about the importance of the length of the tank and how many gallons. I roll my eyes when I see people with huge tangs and angels in large tanks that are stacked full of rock...the ones that are "doing it right." Doesn't matter how many gallons the tank if the fish can't turn around. You see these tanks with less than six inches of room along the substrate and no option for the fish to go front to back. But not a word is said if they present that magic tank size.

I don't aquascape tanks like most people, I use very little rock in high flow bare bottom tanks. They look a little sterile and unfinished to the casual observer, but I like the focus to be on the fish. Now almost all of the 72x18x23 is open swimming area. Cuts down on aggression and every fish in the tank has it's own path from one side to the other. IMO, large fish need at least the top 50% of the tank open for swimming, and if you have more than one tang there need to be at least two swimming lanes pacing the of the tank along the substrate. I think all of the walls to the tank should be free, especially for tangs. That way they can swim loops around the whole tank instead of pacing a panel, stopping, and turning around back the other way.

There are many ways to utilize aquariums, and in my opinion a lot of people are cutting their tank size in half with all of the rock.

I couldn't agree more on how tanks should be set up. Tank sizes are a poor way to decide what a fish should be kept in, but there really isn't a better way. The other problem is people take the "minimum" and say that is the size tank they will get to keep the fish. Doesn't mean the fish will do well or thrive in that tank, but obviously there are many limitations in space and money for hobbyists that lead to these issues. I too keep an open aquascape so my fish can swim around. I think it looks better than the rock wall frequently seen in tanks.

[Sonicblast12]

The more rock I took out, the more I liked it. When I also got rid of all sand, my interest in the hobby skyrocketed. It was just so much easier, the fish looked better and their growth really accelerated, probably because every scrap of food is eaten, nowhere for it to go. The water also became much cleaner. Nitrates went down. Fewer water changes. Skimmer has a lot less to do, and I use tap water. I'd never run a tank any other way.

If something does go wrong, you essentially have a large quarantine tank if it's necessary.

When I was doing it by the book, RODI water, tons of rock and sand etc...my tanks looked like garbage and I lost a lot of fish.

[clekchau]

nice angels, i'm loving my emperator and queen, two of my all time favorites.

i'm going to have to disagree with the rock comments, i had an open minimalist style rock setup, and now i have rocks end to end and i like the look of rocky caves with fish swimming in and out. mine takes up less than 1/4 maybe 1/3 of the tank cause its so big even though the rocks go end to end, huge pieces of rocks huge caves. even with alot of rocks, the fish are still the main focus to anyone looking at the tank, they are always out and about, front and center and not hiding in the rocks but they always have that safety net to go to. to each their own i guess.

[nonstopfishies]

I guess I would fall somewhere in between the 2 above me. I consider my rockwork more minimalist with lots of space for corals to grow in, but also provide some small caves and a few larger ones. My rockwork pretty much runs the length of my tank(210g), but isn't up against the sides and is still very open. Obviously also not a fowlr. My other tank is a fowlr bare bottom though. I used fiberglass driveway markers and drilled the rock to make boomies and caves. Worked pretty well.

[Sonicblast12]

I made the move I should have made to begin with, the emperor is now in it's own little tank with some dirty rock at least until it learns to accept prepared foods. It was starting to get out-competed in the big tank and was just hovering in one spot trying to stay out of the way.

The queen was jostling it's way to the head of the class, but the emperor was falling farther back.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC06074.jpg

[clekchau]

what is it eating now ? is it picking at rocks/glass? best of luck, it's a beauty

[sledge760]

Holy crap! What a deal.

[Sonicblast12]

what is it eating now ? is it picking at rocks/glass? best of luck, it's a beauty

Returned to normal foraging behavior, which is a relief. Picking rock and the nori clip. I smushed one of those gel seaweed grazing blocks from IO all over the rocks, finally found a use for that. Acts like it wants to eat out of the water column, and does, but just a little bit.

[nonstopfishies]

Sounds like you made a good move and he is headed in the right direction. He should come around soon.

[Sonicblast12]

After reading the queen/blue angel thread and looking on some photos...mine IS a queen angel, right?

I don't want to sound like an idiot.

[whipsaw]

I'd say it's a queen since it has that orange tint to the fins and lacks the bluish green body color of blues. The two can mate and create some confusing (and viable afaik) hybrids though. Yours looks pure queen to me.

[nonstopfishies]

I'd say it's a queen since it has that orange tint to the fins and lacks the bluish green body color of blues. The two can mate and create some confusing (and viable afaik) hybrids though. Yours looks pure queen to me.

Agreed. It can be quite difficult at this size to differentiate. I had to stare at it for a bit.

[Sonicblast12]

I don't think the little emp is going to make it. Eventually stopped pecking the nori and just started floating around looking spaced out. Can't get the little guy to eat anything of substance. Follows it around and stares at the food...then moves on. And the fish is just so small and thin...there is no mass to it. I've read that the small juvi emps can be difficult to adapt to captivity.

Starting to get listless and disoriented. Ate fine the first day, but it's been all downhill since then.

I dunno. It stinks. Maybe DD is the way to go with these juvi's.

Queen is doing great.

[seanothon]

Does anyone have a tip to get this little emperor to eat pellets? It's showing less and less interest in pellets and more and more interest in nori. The problem is that it's hard to feed the nori without the other fish ripping it off the side of the tank and scattering it everywhere. I'm trying to make barricades using mag floats so only the angel can pass, but the triggers are too smart and find a way around.

Really I just want to make sure the little guy is eating his fill of something every day, and it would be nice to get him eating from the trough. Refilling the nori clip six times a day isn't the best for water quality.

I have a emperor I got a few months back at about 3" and is now 4-4 1/2" that eats spectrum pellets. I didn't have any trouble at all getting it on them. Actually, it started eating them about an hour after I got it home. Maybe if you only feed pellets for a week it will catch on. That is what I what I have always done in the past and have never lost a fish to a hunger strike.

I am working on a slideshow of it changing to adult colors. It started changing right after I added it to my DT. I'll be sure to post once it's complete.

[fish stalker]

love both of these. good luck, IME the queens are hardier fish so good choice to put the small emp in its own tank.

[seanothon]

I don't think the little emp is going to make it. Eventually stopped pecking the nori and just started floating around looking spaced out. Can't get the little guy to eat anything of substance. Follows it around and stares at the food...then moves on. And the fish is just so small and thin...there is no mass to it. I've read that the small juvi emps can be difficult to adapt to captivity.

Starting to get listless and disoriented. Ate fine the first day, but it's been all downhill since then.

I dunno. It stinks. Maybe DD is the way to go with these juvi's.

Queen is doing great.

I also initially put mine into a QT dosed with prazi pro. I read that angels are prone to flukes and I wanted to make sure there were no internal parasites. Could explain the lack of interest in food but it could be too late at this point

[seanothon]

Maybe some live ghost shrimp and live copepods could spur an appetite

[runintoluck]

After reading the queen/blue angel thread and looking on some photos...mine IS a queen angel, right?

I don't want to sound like an idiot.

I think if yours was a hybrid or not a queen it would look more like this even though mine is a little more developed.

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb449/runintoluck/DSC_0377.jpg

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb449/runintoluck/DSC_0366.jpg

sorry for the poor camera pics, I'm not very skilled with my camera.

[Sonicblast12]

I also initially put mine into a QT dosed with prazi pro. I read that angels are prone to flukes and I wanted to make sure there were no internal parasites. Could explain the lack of interest in food but it could be too late at this point

I suspected that and FW dipped the emp before putting it in the smaller tank to see if it might need a prazi treatment. He was already at hyposalnity and I don't like to combine those treatments. Didn't see anything fall off so I havent treated.

Thought he was a goner last night, but had plenty of spunk this morning so that's good.

[seanothon]

I suspected that and FW dipped the emp before putting it in the smaller tank to see if it might need a prazi treatment. He was already at hyposalnity and I don't like to combine those treatments. Didn't see anything fall off so I havent treated.

Thought he was a goner last night, but had plenty of spunk this morning so that's good.

That's good news. Maybe try some live food to make sure it has some food in it's belly and then try to wean it onto pellets.

[Sonicblast12]

Dead on the pump tonight. Skin and bones.

Damn!

Put ich in my display tank AND killed the fish. Brilliant.

Always QT, ladies and gents.

[alton]

I feel your pain, I made this mistake a few months ago. Everything goes into QT for over a month. I went 10 years w/o sickness and all it took was adding a blueface that was not doing good in my QT tank to my display sump to try and make him better, instead I killed off half my fish

[Sonicblast12]

I got lucky because the only fish I killed was the one I was trying to save. Could have been worse. One of the triggers looked like it was rolled in salt, but two weeks deep into hypo everything is OK now.

I really want another emp, but I really shouldn't. Don't have the space, especially after I hopped on that queen. If I did, I'd get one a little more mature.

Then DD goes and posts this today.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/images/diversden/approved/lg-1116111-099.jpg

They make this tough sometimes, don't they?

[anbosu]

To attempt to keep an adult emp and queen together I think you'd probably have to get a 10' tank, at least if you wanted any chance at success. Regardless you are going to need a 240 in a few years when your fish get a little bigger.

[seanothon]

Sad to hear that. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be

[Sonicblast12]

I like this picture.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/DSC06214.jpg

[Sonicblast12]

LFS got another juvi emperor about a week ago. Smaller, but noticeably thicker. Had them feed, it eagerly ate so I took it home.

This time I put it in my angel tank that was at hypo and it was instantly part of the gang. I don't think my initial idea of putting a small angel into a mature dirty tank was a bad one, I just think I got a bad specimen to begin with.

This fish ate mysis the first day, ate some flake the 2nd day, stopped eating the third day and went spaceman routine and began drifting around the tank and hiding. Thinking about what happened to the last fish...I raised the salinity to 1.012 and it was like a different fish the next day. Relentlessly picking rock and started eating 1 mm NLS pellets and formula 2 flakes with gusto. Always out and about. Can't help but wonder if the hypo killed the last fish.

Here's a video with it's dwarf angel friends darting around the rockpile.

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Reading this forum, a few things really stick out to me. I think it's very important to be honest with yourself, and be honest with the forum. I always try to tell the whole story, whether I kill the fish or whether it thrives. You never learn anything pretending to be perfect. I can go back and see how many mistakes I've made in this thread alone...it's a little alarming to see what fish mania can make you do.

But I also learned a thing or two about hyposalinity. I've now had this happen a couple of different times, a couple of ticks on the hydrometer made all of the difference.

[geaux xman]

I hypo'd my 1st emperor juvie with a blue trigger. They both died in QT, not sure what happened as it was a year ago and i was very inexperienced at the time.

since then i've QT a lot of "large" angels with cupramine and have had a lot of success and find they respond to cupramine very well.. one plus with copper is that it kills other parasites besides ich.

i see you do have a flame and they're much more sensitive to high levels of copper. also, dwarfs are much trickier than large angels.

i have a 4" PBT in cupramine right now too. it took him a little while to eat right under copper, but hes goes wild during feeding time now.

GL with the fish.

[Sonicblast12]

I had the hardest time keeping dwarfs when I first entered the hobby.

My problems disappeared after discovering NLS pellets and re-thinking the way I set up tanks. Lots of surface area to nibble, and piles of rocks to dart around in. Once they start getting those substantial meals, all of those acclimation and adaptation problems seem to melt away. This tank also runs in the mid-70's...I think that helps with most dwarfs.

I had a multicolor that died in less than 24 hours after I brought it home. It would have looked awesome in this tank alongside the flame, coral beauty, and golden angel. One LFS does have a nice established flameback, but I think I'd really like to try a potters.

My obsession has clearly shifted from triggers to angelfish.

[albano]

This time I put it in my angel tank


A wise man once said:

Always QT, ladies and gents.



:confused:

[Sonicblast12]

Yep. That last emp actually nuked two tanks as I was a little careless with some equipment. You have to be SO careful with anything wet when you run more than one system.

He went in this tank only because it was already being treated.

Nevertheless...do as I say, not as I do.

[Reefers4Life]

Sorry to hear you loose any fish at all. I think the larger angels are alot more sensitive to any type of chemical treatments, but your right Prazi is great for internal flukes, and the cupramine is the best for the external parasites.
I've had to hypo my large tank for 3 or 4 months once because I picked up some ick from corals from someone elses tank. Now that everything is gone, I'm scared to death to add anything into since everything is doing so well and eating everything.
Oh yeah I won't add anything without Qt'ing if for at least a month.

[WuHT]

how does that queen look so green in one picture, then so red and blue in another ?

[Sonicblast12]

Main reason is that the back half of the tank is lit by actinics and the front half is daylight spectrum. Blue pops along the back glass, yellow pops along the front glass.

[Sonicblast12]

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/8f58c451.jpg

This picture of the emperor is probably a month old, it's catching up to the size of that coral beauty very fast. Will probably pass it next month.

This one eats absolutely everything, fat stomach. Actually comparing it right now, the change is shocking. I need to get an updated picture to show the growth.

Might be a little difficult, it's terrified of my new phone.




http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/777aad05.jpg

Queen is growing too, though it isn't as obvious. It has been fun watching this fish rise in the pecking order in an aggressive tank.

[palmer373]

Have you had good success with hypoing (1.009) angels, both large and dwarfs? It seems like you've had both successes and failures. I want an angelfish for my 125 but not if it has a poor track record in hypo, learned from mistakes to hypo all fish.

[Sonicblast12]

With the new imperator it might have just been acclimation stress because after it began eating everything and picking rock after raising salinity a few ticks...I slowly dragged salinity back down to 1.009 and have been there for about two weeks without issue. The first little guy might have been doomed from the start, I really don't know. Just didn't eat.

What I'll never do again is mix hyposalinity and prazipro with angels. Had a couple of different angels stop eating and never start back up again.

Seven angels in hyposalinity right now and they are all doing extremely well, including a couple that could be classified as "difficult."

I have about a week left of hypo on my 125, and probably another three on my 75. But as long as the fish are still doing well I'm going to drag it out an extra month. I'm not going to go through this again....worked way too hard and spent too much money to lose it all on an easily eradicated parasite.

BTW...tank upgrade coming soon. Yay!

[Triton_Z]

Sonic,

I've read your thread and at least you're honest about your mistakes, but obviously continue to make mistakes about your tank and fish. I hope others realize buying these animals on whim or just because they happen to be cheap at the time is irresponsible. It's sometimes hard to resist the "fish mania", but these aren't (or at least i hope not) throwaway objects.

Patience and good judgement are critical to the health of your tank and success in caring for these animals.

Complete the hypo treatment before you continue to add fish to your tank at least. Hypo-salinity's side effects on water quality are difficult to control and can be pretty stressful on the whole tank.

Good luck with your tank and treat these animals as best you can, I'm pretty sure you know better. Props for putting it out there and documenting your story with pictures.

[Sonicblast12]

In a forum like this it's critical to document your mistakes. There are people out there searching for answers, and they are not going to get the right ones when only told half the story. Aggression issues, acclimation screwups, feeding issues...etc...everything I've ever screwed up is in a thread somewhere because I think that's very important to put out there. I've mixed a lot of fish and done a lot of different things that shouldn't work and had success, but I've also had my share of failures. But I always have a backup plan for the sake of the fish.

I see a lot of threads where "everything is going great" and we all know it isn't true. Trying to avoid being flamed doesn't make one a good hobbyist. I think THAT is extremely irresponsible and a little bit insulting to the reader.

I'll just throw in a quick comment about hyposalinity. In my experience it is very easy to maintain, but only after the first week. You really have to be careful and look for ammonia spikes and bacterial blooms, but once that subsides it's pretty easy. Easier to maintain in bare bottom tanks, which is all I run.

[Triton_Z]

I agree the hypo can be easy to maintain, but the pH flux, loss of biological filtration after the initial startup period, leading to like you suggest Ammonia spikes and stress can be a pain. I've only performed Hypo on smaller volumes in QT (40B gallon), which likely only adds to the instability.

I agree leaving out information and flat out lying is irresponsible and helps none of us. I know the guys over in the fish disease forum get tired of hearing the same old story about lack of QT and the death and decay that usually follows.

You may also see some better success with sub-adult angels, the juveniles can sometimes be difficult to get to eat and acclimate. However, you do miss that juv-adult transition which is nice to see. I would have liked to see the transition from juvenile on my queen, but in the past (> 15 years ago) I tried one and not knowing any better at the time, the queen angelfish survived for awhile. It did not thrive and died in less than a year likely from poor diet and/or starvation.

Again, good luck and look forward to seeing how things work out.

[Sonicblast12]

I hope others realize buying these animals on whim or just because they happen to be cheap at the time is irresponsible. It's sometimes hard to resist the "fish mania", but these aren't (or at least i hope not) throwaway objects.

If I hadn't bought this queen angel, it would already be dead. That's not a statement to justify the purchase, that's reality. Just like I'm sure the 5 inch sub adult emperor I saw at Petco last week is dead. They simply should not carry those fish. Do you know what the guy asked me as he was netting the fish? "You know this is saltwater, right?"

The blue on this fish explodes when it hits the actinics.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/0d81ae6f.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/e695b955.jpg

Emperor is growing, still camera shy. Doesn't show off like the queen.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/b5406227.jpg

[Sonicblast12]

Lines on the side almost completely gone now. Emperor is growing like a beast but is still pretty small. Maybe 2.5 inches. Doesn't want his picture taken today. Still in separate systems.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/sonicblast12/5fae216a.jpg

[Agioniko]

you are brave to get a queen angel. Holocanthus can be very aggressive

[Sonicblast12]

It's currently getting its *** kicked by the most aggressive flame angel on the planet. It will be interesting to see when the tables turn.

[rogermccray]

Very nice fish you have there :)

[nuccadoc]

I'm starting to get hooked on Angels also. I was in my LFS a few weeks ago and they had a Queen, about 5 in, and I almost bought her, but I held back because of my juvi Koran. Some people have told me I shouldn't add her, a lot of people tell me I can add just about anything I want. My tank is a 10 ft 400 gal that's 36" tall, so I have a lot of swimming space.

Thanks for posting you honesty, it really helps those of us not experienced with Angels.

How often do you feed your Angels? I purchased Scott Michaels book on Angels and Butterfly's and I was surprised by how often they eat and what they eat. He recommended plenty of algae and feeding 4-5 times/day.

[sandwi54]

I'm starting to get hooked on Angels also. I was in my LFS a few weeks ago and they had a Queen, about 5 in, and I almost bought her, but I held back because of my juvi Koran. Some people have told me I shouldn't add her, a lot of people tell me I can add just about anything I want. My tank is a 10 ft 400 gal that's 36" tall, so I have a lot of swimming space.

Thanks for posting you honesty, it really helps those of us not experienced with Angels.

How often do you feed your Angels? I purchased Scott Michaels book on Angels and Butterfly's and I was surprised by how often they eat and what they eat. He recommended plenty of algae and feeding 4-5 times/day.

Scott, when mixing angels I always recommend staying away from the three alpha species: emperor, queen, and passer. These three species are well known to be very territorial and would want to dominate the whole tank. They are not good candidates to be kept with other angels as they will literally try to kill the other angels when defending their own territories, unless the tank is ~1,000g or larger. I have seen, in both my own tanks and other people's, how adult emperor/queen/passer angels relently chase other angels, while leaving other species of fish alone. This would probably not happen when the fish are small but almost always does when the fish approaches maturity (8"-10"). Please read the "Mixing Of Aggressive Fish Rules That I broke Ending in Disaster" on the top of this forum for someone else's experience.

A 400g, while large, is still small compared to the natural territory of an angelfish. In the wild they defend a territory as large as a tennis court, so this should give you an idea of how they would behave in a "small" aquarium. If you would like to add another angel, I recommend mild-tempered ones such as majestic, regal, or the chaetodontoplus genus.

[Sonicblast12]

I'm starting to get hooked on Angels also. I was in my LFS a few weeks ago and they had a Queen, about 5 in, and I almost bought her, but I held back because of my juvi Koran. Some people have told me I shouldn't add her, a lot of people tell me I can add just about anything I want. My tank is a 10 ft 400 gal that's 36" tall, so I have a lot of swimming space.

Thanks for posting you honesty, it really helps those of us not experienced with Angels.

How often do you feed your Angels? I purchased Scott Michaels book on Angels and Butterfly's and I was surprised by how often they eat and what they eat. He recommended plenty of algae and feeding 4-5 times/day.

The advice of the previous poster is correct. I'm either going to have to make a choice between the two large angels or get an enormous system, that's reality. There comes a point in all aggressive fish where they hit a certain size and there is no going back. There are other beautiful angelfish options like the aforementioned Majestic and Regal Angels. I have one of each and I think they are both more visually striking than the Queen.

The Queen was an admitted impulse buy, but I just couldn't leave that fish in a Petco tank knowing it would be dead in a week. It is doing great now, and will make a wonderful pet for someone if I'm unable to meet its needs. I'm not too proud to make that move if it becomes necessary. I'd like to get that 1000 gallon system we all dream of, but for now the small Queen is doing just fine.

I have eight species of Angelfish and feed them all the same way. A mixture of NLS and Formula 2 pellets four times per day. I also feed formula 2 flake and a different type of frozen every night. The tanks have lots of dirty rock and dead coral skeletons covered in goo that the angels pick at relentlessly.

The only type of angel I've had no luck with is a Potters. 0-2. Oh, and can I have your 10 foot long tank?

[Sonicblast12]

Looking at the previous pictures in the thread, the Queen has lost the stripes and really "yellowed" up.

[Word up]

Sonic...how does your flame angel towards the emperor. I currently have a flame and want to add juvenile emperor and curious if they make good tankmates

[nuccadoc]

The advice of the previous poster is correct. I'm either going to have to make a choice between the two large angels or get an enormous system, that's reality. There comes a point in all aggressive fish where they hit a certain size and there is no going back. There are other beautiful angelfish options like the aforementioned Majestic and Regal Angels. I have one of each and I think they are both more visually striking than the Queen.

The Queen was an admitted impulse buy, but I just couldn't leave that fish in a Petco tank knowing it would be dead in a week. It is doing great now, and will make a wonderful pet for someone if I'm unable to meet its needs. I'm not too proud to make that move if it becomes necessary. I'd like to get that 1000 gallon system we all dream of, but for now the small Queen is doing just fine.

I have eight species of Angelfish and feed them all the same way. A mixture of NLS and Formula 2 pellets four times per day. I also feed formula 2 flake and a different type of frozen every night. The tanks have lots of dirty rock and dead coral skeletons covered in goo that the angels pick at relentlessly.

The only type of angel I've had no luck with is a Potters. 0-2. Oh, and can I have your 10 foot long tank?

Haha! If I had the room for a larger tank I would gladly sell you mine.

I find it interesting in my readings that some people's description of a "large tank" is roughly 180 gal. I see my tank as not big enough for the fish I currently have. One of the LFS in my area has a 300 gal and I think it's small. So I have to agree with Sandi's and your comment about the 1000 gal setup. Would be great, but you need a lot of time, space and money for such a setup.

I'm going to leave the Koran by himself. He's doing well, nobody picks on him and he gets along well with his other tank mates. I'm battling HLLE with my tangs at the moment so I'm focused on getting them healthy again.

[Sonicblast12]

Sonic...how does your flame angel towards the emperor. I currently have a flame and want to add juvenile emperor and curious if they make good tankmates

Depends on the fish. I have one flame that is in the same tank with the emperor and they are fine. I have another flame that is aggressive towards any other angelfish.

Under normal circumstances I don't think you would have an issue.

[humaguy]

a flame may bother a tiny emp...but the emp will hold its own...when the emp grows, the flame will forget about it....
agree with sandi54...only in real big tanks should an emp and queen be together...I am crossing my fingers that mine will not notice each other when put in my big tank...

[sandwi54]

a flame may bother a tiny emp...but the emp will hold its own...when the emp grows, the flame will forget about it....
agree with sandi54...only in real big tanks should an emp and queen be together...I am crossing my fingers that mine will not notice each other when put in my big tank...

I think it MAY be do-able in your tank, but it is still on the borderline of a "real big tank"! :bounce3:

Nevertheless, the chance of success will be much higher in your tank than in, say, a 300g.

[stuifbol]

Here are mine:fun2:

[Jdbrine]

Gorgeous fish!!!! I have a queen and emperor too. Have had them both since they were juveniles. Going on 3 years. Definitely 2 of my favorite fish..... I have done Hypo several times over the past 8 years. To me there couldnt be an easier, safer, and more effective way to deal with ich. Uou seem like your doing a great job to me. Keep up the good work!