Anthias feeding trouble

[puck3]

have had 3 anthias in quarantine for a week. 1 sunburst, 1 male lyretail, 1 female lyretail. the only one I have gotten to eat is the male lyretail. the only thing he will eat is live brine shrimp. the other 2 dont even attempt to eat even when one lands on their mouth. also wont eat formula 2 pellets, new life marine spectrum pellets, frozen mysis, or roti-feast liquid plankton. starting to worry now. anyone have any other suggestions???

[peasofme]

only buy healthy fish that are zestfully eating in front of you at the lfs. and only qt 1 fish at a time.

[spieszak]

I agree with the above to an extent, but its not a stead fast rule. Its not always possible to know a fish was easting. Especially in the case of an online purchase, buying more than one at a time makes sense also. Contact the seller, ask what they were eating before you purchased them, and give that a try.
Personally, I've had good luck with nori rubberbanded to a rock or pvc when fish won't eat.. gives them a change to more naturally "pick" at something rather than being expected to eat when food drops into the tank. I've also had good luck with Formula One flake. Not something I keep them on, but it has gotten them started eating "foreign" looking/tasting food.

[snorvich]

Nutramar Ova is irresistible to most anthias.

[pk_hk]

Anthias stress in tight spaces and require hiding spots and individual territories. I'd have to guess the QT is the problem. Also, mixing species should only be done in very large aquariums. My resplendants were fairly reclusive for the first week or so. They ate mysis more readily after a day or so. It was a month before I managed to get all of them to take NLS pellets. I didnt QT because I knew I couldn't offer one suitable. There are others who warn against anthia QT for these reasons. Ultimately, they do best when offered a constant supply of zooplankton and plenty of space---not found in your average QT.

[puck3]

Well i bought them not knowing if they were eating or not only because I have a friend who runs the LFS and let's me go to his distributor with him. So I can't get to picky because it is a huge favor on multiple levels. And what is nutramar ova? Never heard of it

[puck3]

Unfortunately Idont have room for a larger or individual qt. my only other option would be dropping into the DT. All 3 seem healthy, are actively swimming around tank and not displaying weird activity (except not eating). No signs of diseas. But this is the first time I am ever qt'ing after a sequence of failing. So I am apprehensive to just drop them in DT and see how they do

[pk_hk]

Understandable. The swimming around part sounds good but anthias need to eat a lot because they expend so much energy swimming around and have fast metabolisms. Do you have any hiding spaces in the QT? Rock, or even PVC? Anthias can be very picky with foods at first but it's your difficulty with feeding mysis that has me thinking stress is an issue. I'm sure you've done some researching and found that mysis is the most commonly recommended food, especially with newly introduced anthias. I'd provide hiding spots in the QT if you haven't already. I'd definitely offer frozen foods, starting with mysis before entertaining any idea that they'll take flake or pellet. I'm not saying you shouldn't try these things when all else fails but most folks with experience with anthias only have success with dry foods after the fish settle in. Of note, I'm a fan of Bob Fenner and WWM who regularly advises against anthia QT for the reasons I've mentioned. Good luck. I'm planning on some lyretails for my upgrade. Anthias are really cool fish but definitely a bit tricky at times. I've actually learned a lot about the importance of social interaction/compatibility in our reefs through my anthias.

[puck3]

Well on that note just went downstairs to check out the qt and found the female lyre tail up against the intake of the HOB filter. And the male is harrassing it pretty bad, doubt it will last the day. Yes I do have hiding spots in there though, I have a piece of healthy live rock and two PVC elbows.

[Reefing Newbie]

only buy healthy fish that are zestfully eating in front of you at the lfs. and only qt 1 fish at a time.

You can't really only QT certain fish separately if they change sex. You can't seperatky qt clowns otherwise you run the risk if having two females. From my understanding having more than one male anthias per species isn't good unless you have a large footprint. If all the anthias were seperatky then wouldn't they all turn male then fight when introduced to the same DT?

[puck3]

It's not an overnight transformation. Develops over atleast the time period
Of several months. If you knowingly bought a female took it home and quarantined it
For a month I could almost guarantee you it would still be a female at end of month(unless it already started the transformation)

[Reefing Newbie]

You have a point but let's say you wanted a larger group of say 5-9. This would mean taking 5-9 months to have all in the DT. Wouldn't you have a male in the DT by the time you add the last one? Not sure how they are with makes being added before females, I know with wrasses females should be added first, does this apply to anthias?

[pk_hk]

Uh oh. The males can be vicious, especially lyretails. The males can smell any weakness and bully a female. I have to make special effort at times to make sure my smallest female stays nourished. If you didn't have stress issues before, you do now. Stressed animals won't eat. See what you can do to further manage the stress. If your QT is anything less than four ft I'd consider other options. Mixing the males is no good.

[pk_hk]

From what I know, anthia harems should be introduced at once. An established group (females included) would bully a new introduction, as the new fish would exhibit signs of stress and weakness, making it very hard to associate and feed. That's not to say that there would be exceptions. I think only very large systems would minimize the risk.

[puck3]

Reefing newbie: your best bet would be to add anthias to your DT at 2-3 at a time. You wouldn't want to add one by one they would most likely become to territorial. Also anthias do best in small groups with only one mail. So your way bet would be to select a non aggressive species or two at the absolute most and start by adding male with a couple females, and from that point on only add females.

PH_hk: only other option is releasing male lyretail into the DT. QT is only a 20 long tank but it's all I have. But if I add him in first then I'm presented with problem of compatibility later on when I add other 2 anthias to the DT. The male is still only Eatin live brine shrimp as well.

Isn't a fish tank a great hobby?!!!!!!!!!!! Lol

[pk_hk]

Double post

[pk_hk]

We've all been there in one way or another. I'm obviously reluctant, not being an expert to go ahead and suggest you just toss the male into the display but to be honest, it's what I'd do at this point. I'd look to others here and certainly Bob Fenner's suggestions regarding QT'ing anthias. As far as anthias go, a twenty long with a rock and two PVC elbows is definitely not enough. Once happily established in a DT, the fish will swim in groups but always need a territory of their own, which they will defend against the others. You definitely have to determine the health of the female lyretail before moving forward---obviously something is wrong. After a week of no food, starvation and illness are strong possibilities. Its great that male is eating the live brine. Best of luck. Your patience will be rewarded. I'm keeping anthias now, having wanted to keep them for years but knowing that they weren't a good fit. They need space and food, lots of space and food. Its only now, through my direct experience and husbandry that I can fully appreciate the guidelines for their care. They will adapt to captivity but won't afford the aquarist many compromises as many other reef fishes do. Pulling for you.

By the way, not a bad reference: http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=267

[puck3]

ph_kh: yea thanks I usually always use live aquaria for a quick reference. Just an update on my luck of the day. Came home from work and found the female Lyretail dead (which I figured) but also found the sunburst anthias dead (my favorite) which I thought was doing well stress wise, just not eating. So now I only have the male left which I guess Im just going to keep him in QT until i can ween him onto frozen/prepared foods.

[Reefing Newbie]

My personal plan was to get 5 female resplendent anthias and put them in my 46 gallon QT. I will be putting tons of PVC and PVC elbows in for hiding places. Otherwise get on male and four females which ever works best I guess.

[puck3]

yea that sounds fine. wouldnt go to crazy with the elbows though you still want to be able to readily observe the fish. put just enough that they have a place to hide. just closely monitor water parameters daily with that many fish in a QT. pretty big bioload to handle. and have plenty of ready made slatwater on hand to do water changes to remove all that ammonia. If i were you though i would add a male. in adding all females with the idea that one will become a male you are betting on the fact that there will be aggression and "alpha male" battles for that one female to become a male. keeping a male in there from beginning will hopefully keep all that in check. but thats just my opionion and how I would approach this.---not an expert by any means.

[Reefing Newbie]

Maybe snorvich would know. I know that he didn't QT his resplendents though... Read his thread on them a week or two ago when trying to read up on resplendent anthias.