No protein skimmer.?

[sam30315]

How many people have run a tank with out a protien skimmer? Is it possible to run a tank without one and just have bio filtration?

[jason2459]

Yes it is possible but the bigger the tank the more helpful it is to have one. Also, if you do certain things like use bio-pellets or dose a carbon source it is extremely recommended to have one. I don't use one on my 20g mantis tank and keep up with just water changes just fine.

On my 55g and now my 180g I use one and love it. They aren't perfect and aren't a magic cure to anything but they are easy to use and don't have to be super expensive. They do pull out some unwanted nutrients, not all, and they do provide aeration to the tank which could help PH levels depending on the air being pulled. If you are carbon/pellet dosing you really need the oxygen levels maintained as the bacteria that is grown will consume it and can help protect against a bacteria bloom. The skimmer will also help to pull out the excess bacteria effectively removing more unwanted nutrients that they have consumed.

[sam30315]

@ the moment im running a 30 gal display with a 10 gal sump. theres about 35 pounds of live rock in the tank and about 15 in the sump. looking to increase the amount in the sump.
Live stock includes a dozen corals, 3 fish, a banded coral shrimp and cleaners. the tanks been up and running for over a year, i do water changes every weekend, approximately 12.37% each time. all my levels stay right where they should be and im not running a PS.
I asked because ive never heard of anyone doing without.

[Chris27]

When you see and smell the "stuff" that they remove from the water column, you certainly realize they are beneficial.

[jason2459]

There's plenty of people that do with out a skimmer. Some people argue against skimmers because they are using another xyz technique that replaces them. I really don't see anything else that actually replaces a protein skimmer. You either use one or don't. I can't stand it when those that don't use a skimmer try and rub it in everyone's faces that they don't because they do xyz. Great for them but you can use a protein skimmer with every other xyz technique out there with out reducing xyz's efficiency.

[sam30315]

By no means am i trying to rub my opinion or success in anyone's faces, just curious as to whether i was hurting or benefiting from it.

[Palting]

Skimmers remove DOC's, or dissolved organic compounds. Organic compounds will breakdown, like anything organic, and can be handled by the bacteria in the liverock. Skimmers make the job of the liverock easier, by taking these compounds out, removing the need to process these particular ones. So, yes, it's possible to run without a skimmer.

[kotu100]

I ran my 75g system with and without a skimmer.
I noticed the system could keep up with the bio-load fairly well, and everything stayed healthy and growing, but with the skimmer there was a lot more color, and growth was much quicker.

[jason2459]

By no means am i trying to rub my opinion or success in anyone's faces, just curious as to whether i was hurting or benefiting from it.

Sorry, I certainly wasn't talking about you or this thread. When you see the threads I'm talking about you will know. They go out of their way to explain their awesome xyz setup (which is great to share that knowledge) but then go on to explain that protein skimmers are useless, those that buy them are idiots, and their xyz setup is a miracle cure for everything.

[fishgate]

Sorry, I certainly wasn't talking about you or this thread. When you see the threads I'm talking about you will know. They go out of their way to explain their awesome xyz setup (which is great to share that knowledge) but then go on to explain that protein skimmers are useless, those that buy them are idiots, and their xyz setup is a miracle cure for everything.

Sounds like your average pro vs. against UV sterilizer thread.

[jason2459]

Sounds like your average pro vs. against UV sterilizer thread.

Pretty much except UV sterilizers suck and are useless. Anyone who buys them are idiots...


J/K

[The Gonk]

Is it possible for a protein skimmer to be too effective?

[jason2459]

Is it possible for a protein skimmer to be too effective?

I don't think so. From different studies which were pretty basic they can only remove about 30% of the TOC. They are a great addition to any filtration system what ever that system includes. However, you can get a protein skimmer that is to big and not allowing it to be as efficient as it could be. Usually it comes down to how much air pull there is in ratio to water pull, body size, and neck size compared to the water volume of your display tank and bioload. For example if you don't have enough bioload for a skimmer that is to big there wont be a consistent enough foam build up in the neck to be anywhere near as efficient as a smaller skimmer with a constant foam head in the upper neck area.

[pr12]

I've run my 75 (5 small fish) with and without a skimmer over the past year, I dont really see a diffrence with or without it but it does make me feel better using it. I also run a 20 gallon, dsb and wet dry filter without one no problem.

[shaginwagon13]

I have only seen one persons personally that never ran a protein skimmer and had a successful tank. They did have a-lot of plants in their sump (i guess to counteract Nitrate levels?) but I wouldn't recommended not using one. You can find a used one on here for a couple hundred dollars which in the long run could save you a lot more in lots corals and fish.

[Preble]

I.only.run.mine.maybe.3.days.a.week.
I'm.starting.a.29.today.and.i.wont.be.running.a.skimmer....maybe.a.hob.if.i.see.a.used.one.for.a.goo d.deal.or.a.new.one.for.cheap.

sorry.my.spacebar.is.not.working.

[Bredfan]

Hi Sam - I'm glad you posted this. The exact same question came up in the filtration section yesterday with @Danzig.

My guess (er, sort of researched a little, but I'm a noob) is that with a good sump system with lots of bio filtering like you have, you'd be fine. You're a case in point.

Then there's me. :-) I have only a canister filter. Don't ask why...long boring story. But, I am switching to a HOB PS with a powerhead for circulation because the canister is a trap for bad stuff and is a pain to maintain.

So...even though I have 20+ lbs of LR, without a sump/fuge, I think I need a PS.

Bottom line: I think it totally depends on the individual set up. But best I can tell, a PS can only help.

(You made me laugh.... "...approximately 12.37 gallons..." I'm the same way with this stuff. Measure, then measure again.) :D

[sam30315]

thank you all for the advice. yeah its a 12.37 % water change every week which is like 4.83 gal. i am a newbie, kinda did my setup different from everyone else. money also played a part in that. ill check that thread out Bredfan.

[Beandawg]

I.only.run.mine.maybe.3.days.a.week.
I'm.starting.a.29.today.and.i.wont.be.running.a.skimmer....maybe.a.hob.if.i.see.a.used.one.for.a.goo d.deal.or.a.new.one.for.cheap.

sorry.my.spacebar.is.not.working.

:lolspin: I thought you were going to make some funny point or something. But the actual explanation made me lol.

[heckfire]

i mean, ...you can fight the system, ignore the current methods of success, or just accept the statistical probability regarding the successful use of skimmers

[Sk8r]

A softie tank does pretty well without: the corals do the skimming, sort of.

[Agu]

I've had nano tanks for several years without skimmers. It's all about regular maintenance and water changes. Would I want to do the same percentage water changes on a large tank? Probably not.

A skimmer is a tool that creates forgiveness for errors and neglect. If you're a rookie or one that tends to put off needed maintenance IMHO opinion a skimmer is a necessary part of your arsenal.

This posted by a person who hasn't used a skimmer in about 8 years ....

[haftafish]

I run a skimmer and all is going good. I have a 75gal and i am 4 months in. I plan on having softies. I have read that you shoulden't run a skimmer with softies. Is this true?

[jason2459]

No true about the softies. Skimmers are not that efficient that they would strip put everything corals of any kind like to consume in the water column.

[lars on live]

run an 80 gallon display (2 40 gallon breeders side by side) and about a 40 gallon fuge. I haven't ran a skimmer with this system. I have a light bioload, mainly softies and lps corals, a lot of live rock, and a large fuge filled with cheato. Skimmers are great, but there are other ways of doing things.

[newtank]

When you see and smell the "stuff" that they remove from the water column, you certainly realize they are beneficial.

FYI, that stuff they are removing from the water column is somewhat misleading. Yes refractionating can trap debris and some dissolved material, there by removing it into the collection cup, but those surfaces are exposed to high levels of dissolved oxygen and nutrients which become breeding grounds for aerobic bacteria films which also aid in digestion of waste, but you may be surprised at the bacteria content of that mass, which is there as a result in part of the apparatus, not necessarily representative of what was removed in the first place. I have a 265g DT that has been skimmerless for a year and a half. I have had no algae issues, and good water quality only using 100micron filter socks and lots of rock. Skimmers certainly oxygenate the water, and can remove some dissolved organics, but my personal opinion is that they are usually over rated and over priced for what it is they actually do. They can’t hurt, (only the electron bill) and can add some benefits so its up to you if you run one or not. Try one out for a while then stop, keep everything else the same and see if you had better quality when running it. If you lived closer I would let you try one of mine…its just collecting dust…

[jason2459]

newtank, like you mentioned there is certainly a certain amount of bacteria extracted as well which is good as that is also then removing the nitrates and phosphates that the bacteria has consumed. Kind of like when you pull out some macro algae or clean off an algae turf scrubber. Which is why if you are carbon dosing of any kind it is highly recommended (if not almost a requirement) to utilize a skimmer. If you are not carbon dosing then it is just an added benefit to what ever your other methods are if you choose to use a skimmer or not.

As for electrical use most skimmers now a days have relatively low power consumption compared to skimmers of the past except for on the very biggest of skimmers which most people do not have 200 plus gallon tanks. Even for a 200g tank one can utilize skimmers now that only consume 30-40w. For say the average person running between a 55-120g tank easily find a skimmer that only draws 15-30w or less.