AI Sol Superblue or 10x54w ATI

[Tim98277]

Hi all, I'm new to RC and fairly new to the hobby. Well I haven't really done it for 12 years and now back into it with my 70 that's been up for 4 months now. Currently i'm in the build stage for my custom 200 52.25 x 32 x 30.

I was curious about my lighting options and I would prefer to stay away from the MH, now that I have narrowed my options down, I was thinking of either 5 AI super blue( 4 corners and 1 in the middle) or a 10x54w ATI powermodule. Any answers and help in the right direction would be grateful.

Thanks in advance,
Tim

[ken6217]

The LED's will cost you more. The T5 bulbs though will have to be replaced periodically. If i were me, it's a no brainer.... Get the ATI T5.

I actually bought LED (Reef Tech) and went to T5 (ATI Powermodule). It is a known entity. The jury is still out on LED. The LED fans will say how great they are but there are threads on here from people with LED's and they are having issues with their SPS.

One thing that is certain and 1000% certain. You can keep any corals or invert with the ATI fixture that you are looking at.
Ken

[chadfarmer]

That's what I was looking to buy before I bought LEDs went to macna to order them from and talk to ati in person. After seeing all the vendors using AI LED I bought them and haven't looked back

Do what u want I am not telling u to buy leds just my experience

[Tim98277]

Thank you both, the input is greatly appreciated.

[Felixc395]

Can't go wrong either way! I give the AI's the edge because of the programmability unless you go with the dimmable powermodule, but both are awesome!

Oh, and welcome to RC!!! :) :) :) Hope you like it here!

[chadfarmer]

i am going to suggest go see them in person whatever light you are looking to purchase

[rtparty]

After 8 months of LEDs, I am looking to get an ATI Sunpower again in the future.

I am going to give LEDs another 6 months on my display tank. If they can't house the SPS I want, they will be sold off.

I owned an ATI Sunpower for about 8 months and my tank thrived under it! I miss that with LEDs. It is always a guessing game for me with LEDs. I don't really care to go buy corals and have them look like crap for 6 months while they adjust. I would rather quit the hobby.

[tqpolo]

I won't get nearly the same color with LED compare to 10 bulbs T5. I saw the AI in person the tank has a really bad color. The light is too spotty and color is too dim if you want blue or too yellow if you want bright. This is with a Sol Blue. I personally don't think 5 is going to be enough for your tank.

[FranktheTankTx]

From one man in search of lights to another: Search AI on this Forum. There are countless threads complaining of the color produced by the AI LED. I am thoroughly convinced AI is a great solid company & they will stand by their product with outstanding customer service... However, bottom line is: the color is no where near that of a 8 bulb T5 fixture or in your case 10 bulb.

You can create any color you want & T5s are FAR more cheaper up front than LED. Although your 10x54w fixture will be pricey... but still cheaper than the AI.

[deepseadan]

Don't do ai leds. I regret ever buying mine. My tank looks awful compared to my old ati setup. You will find yourself constantly playing with percentages trying to make both your eyes and corals happy. I don't care what anyone claims, sps definitely thrive way better under ati t5's. I see the proof everyday.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[jtgordon20]

Ive seen many amazing tanks using the AI's maybe you just had bad luck with it. Maybe some more people will chime in with the good luck they've had.

[solitude127]

An ATI T5/LED Hybrid would be awesome. Until they come out with one, the ATI PM gets my vote. I'd give LEDs another 2 years because , imo, it's still fairly new technology.

[Geeray]

You might as well have asked what brand of car to buy. The notion that the AI SOL can't grow SPS is actually quite comical. may people like the appearance of the AI better than the ATI it's all preference. I suggest you search this form for other threads. Do alot of reading and make your own desicion. A thread like this asking for opinions will get you know where.

[Tim98277]

You might as well have asked what brand of car to buy. The notion that the AI SOL can't grow SPS is actually quite comical. may people like the appearance of the AI better than the ATI it's all preference. I suggest you search this form for other threads. Do alot of reading and make your own desicion. A thread like this asking for opinions will get you know where.

Actually the opinions of others was exactly what I was looking for and has helped me make my decision, i'll be going with the

48" 10x54w Dimmable Powermodule (http://www.fishtanksdirect.com/4810x54wdimmablepowermodulet5high-outputfixture.aspx).

On another note Geeray, which brand of car would you recommend.

Thanks again everyone for their valued input, stopping by my friends house after he switched to AI Sol and seeing his before and after pictures, the after pictures showed less vibrant colors..

[chadfarmer]

[48" 10x54w Dimmable Powermodule (http://www.fishtanksdirect.com/4810x54wdimmablepowermodulet5high-outputfixture.aspx).



thats a good light

[Geeray]

Actually the opinions of others was exactly what I was looking for and has helped me make my decision, i'll be going with the

48" 10x54w Dimmable Powermodule (http://www.fishtanksdirect.com/4810x54wdimmablepowermodulet5high-outputfixture.aspx).

On another note Geeray, which brand of car would you recommend.

Thanks again everyone for their valued input, stopping by my friends house after he switched to AI Sol and seeing his before and after pictures, the after pictures showed less vibrant colors..

I personnaly don't have either right now. In my opinion the AI LED have alot of advantages in being able to adjust the intensity through out the day. good luck doing that with the t5's. there are plenty of experienced reefers using AI's with success. I don't feel you received a fair representation based on the comments you received. I have seen no proof that the ATI's give better color. In all honesty either unit will work.

The guys commenting that the AI's don't grow nice SPS have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

[rtparty]

I personnaly don't have either right now. In my opinion the AI LED have alot of advantages in being able to adjust the intensity through out the day. good luck doing that with the t5's. there are plenty of experienced reefers using AI's with success. I don't feel you received a fair representation based on the comments you received. I have seen no proof that the ATI's give better color. In all honesty either unit will work.

The guys commenting that the AI's don't grow nice SPS have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

Welcome to the world of dimmable T5s. You can indeed ajust the intensity throughout the day. Good luck getting people to listen when you own neither and don't know what is totally available, even after the OP linked a DIMMABLE T5 fixture.

Just sayin.

To the OP,

Save the money and get the ATI Sunpower in the dimmable version. Unless you have a controller to run the Powermodule. I can't remember if you do or not. On my phone and typing this response takes long enough.

[Tim98277]

To the OP,

Save the money and get the ATI Sunpower in the dimmable version. Unless you have a controller to run the Powermodule. I can't remember if you do or not. On my phone and typing this response takes long enough.

I'll be using a RKE

[rtparty]

I'll be using a RKE

Sweet! I just didn't want you to get it and be taken by surprise.

[ReefTankHunter]

This has been a great thread. Ive been researching this subject on 2 other forms.Most who bought the AI s, just are not happy.I guess I will just keep burning my sunpower ATI over my SPS tank and watch em grow.

[jimrawr]

I tried LEDs and was very unhappy, changed to ATI and sps are thriving.

[curthendrix]

Running 4AIs with two 5' T5s (Fiji purple and Geisman actinic "420nm")...best lighting combo I've ever tried including Radiums with T5s.

[Tim98277]

Alright, so this is what those lights will be going on.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ur6SZCKlFKY/Tsz-G4P-xdI/AAAAAAAAC18/cZgPND_KK6o/s800/IMG_20111123_060701.jpg

It's all still in the works, and trust me, that is not the stand, it's just a temp. spot for now until the stand is built.

[dieselgrk]

I made the switch to all LEDs and my tank is at a stand still :( no growth, ok colors, two colonies bleached out and dead. spread is bad. you buy the number of fixutess you think you need and then you just keep buying more cause the spread is not what you expected and corals on the sides aren't getting enough light. I love being in the forefront of modern reef keeping: rimless 5 years ago, minimal rock work 4 years ago, cone skimmer 3 years ago, zeovit 2 years ago, LEDs this last year. LEDs is the first innovation I'm currently regretting but still optimistic about

[GSMguy]

I'd use LEDs on that tank because the bracing is blocking the top. The AIs could sit atop the holes, it won't however be evenly lit.

[deepseadan]

Originally Posted by Tim98277 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19571717)
Actually the opinions of others was exactly what I was looking for and has helped me make my decision, i'll be going with the48" 10x54w Dimmable Powermodule (http://www.fishtanksdirect.com/4810x54wdimmablepowermodulet5high-outputfixture.aspx).On another note Geeray, which brand of car would you recommend.Thanks again everyone for their valued input, stopping by my friends house after he switched to AI Sol and seeing his before and after pictures, the after pictures showed less vibrant colors..I personnaly don't have either right now. In my opinion the AI LED have alot of advantages in being able to adjust the intensity through out the day. good luck doing that with the t5's. there are plenty of experienced reefers using AI's with success. I don't feel you received a fair representation based on the comments you received. I have seen no proof that the ATI's give better color. In all honesty either unit will work.The guys commenting that the AI's don't grow nice SPS have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

How can you say the AI guys have no idea what were talking about when you have no experience with either fixture. I do own both AI and ati t5's and there's something with the AI's that sps aren't crazy about. In my situation, my sps had dramatic loss of color and growth when I went led. Then when I went back to t5, everything seems happy again. I had three units on a 48" tank.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

[sushibug]

when people are commenting on the lack of growth with their LED lighting, it would be helpful if we knew more about which LED they were using, and how many over what size tank. i see posts about complaints about the color of ai lighting, and then complaints about led growth. some people might assume that everyone in the thread owns ai lighting. i noticed one of the people preferring T5s over LED is actually using ecoxotics, according to his signature. these might just be 1 watt strips... we don't know without more information.

[ati70cutlass]

NOT TO JUMP TOPIC, but a little talk about dimmable t5s... if you stagger your bulbs coming on is there a real need to dimm them? also i am using 24 cree rbs as actinic supplement. do you think the t5s heat will affect their life span? i will be using 2 rows out of a 8 row tek fixture

[FlyTekk]

This was a great thread. Any updates? I too am sick of DIY LEDS not showing certain colors. Looking to buy a used powermodule from ATI for $500 with new bulbs. 6x39 on a 40 breeder. for this money i can get more leds but i think t5s cover more of the color spectrum.

[rtparty]

This was a great thread. Any updates? I too am sick of DIY LEDS not showing certain colors. Looking to buy a used powermodule from ATI for $500 with new bulbs. 6x39 on a 40 breeder. for this money i can get more leds but i think t5s cover more of the color spectrum.

That is way too much light for that tank. A 6x24 is a much better choice.

[Reefoholicc]

I "upgraded" to LEDs and what a mistake. I had a custom made MH and T5 combo and everything in my tank was thriving. Of course being me, I needed to get the AI Sol Blue fixture and ever since I changed to LEDs, my SPS died off, paled off, withered away.

Many people blamed water chemistry, too much nutrients in the water column, too little nutrients in the water column, more alk, less Ca, less Alk, more Ca so on and so on...

I am witching to my MH and T5 combo pretty soon... I don't think I will be switching to LEDs for any SPS setup anytime soon.

Do yourself a favor and go with the ATI fixture. You won't regret it!

[porksmash]

My LFS has a 435 gal display tank lit by 6 AI Sol SuperBlues. In person the corals look great and everything seems to be thriving. I think for my 57g I will be doing 1 or 2 AI modules and a 2 tube T5 supplement to round it out. Best of both worlds! Here's the LFS website (http://www.neptuneaquatics.com/content/neptune-435-gallon-display-tank) with the build on it if anyone is interested. Lighting starts on page 9.

[FlyTekk]

6x24? But my tank is 36" its 36"x18"x16h. The 36" ati powermodule is 39watts. The 24watts is shorter.

[FlyTekk]

It seems for everyone that switches to led and likes it there is someone that switches back from led to their MH or T5 or both.

[rtparty]

6x24? But my tank is 36" its 36"x18"x16h. The 36" ati powermodule is 39watts. The 24watts is shorter.

Your right, your tank is 36". The 36" ATI is too much light for such a shallow tank. You will have a VERY hard time keeping any softies or LPS in the tank and even some SPS won't be happy.

ATI's are way more powerful than you think. Trust me, I ran a 40g breeder for 8 months with a 4x24w ATI Sunpower.

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/FTS10-30.jpg

[FlyTekk]

great im screwed, i dont have much of a choice. Its used but like new with new bulbs for $475. Its not like i can buy a 24" instead. So what if i keep them higher?

[heckeng]

You will be fine. If nothing else, don't use a couple bulbs. No biggie.

[kc350twin]

Before you go Dimmable I'd talk to ReefGeek and do some research. It's hard on the bulbs from what I'm told.

[beachbreak]

I had some issues the first few weeks but 5 months into switching from T5 to AI and I couldn't be happier. I like them so much that my new 180 will be lit by AI with a (2) bulb T5 retrofit. These pics are of my 30 cube powered by a single Sol.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/JfromHouston/1-3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/JfromHouston/2-3.jpg

[Danny Luu]

I've used ATI and switched to a kessil. The kessil looks waaaay nicer and cheaper, smaller foot print and the corals seem to react very well with it. If i had more money i'd get the AI. I like my LEDs more than the t5's and halides that i have used in the past

[rtparty]

great im screwed, i dont have much of a choice. Its used but like new with new bulbs for $475. Its not like i can buy a 24" instead. So what if i keep them higher?

Keep the fixture 12" off the water and use a couple actinic bulbs to lower the PAR.

[shawn.short]

I have 6 AI Sol BLe Leds, and the LFS suggested and most of my friends were against it. Well I did it any way,I did the research and got em, Man the funny thing is when everyone came over to look they were astonished about how great everything is doin i have LPS,SPS both in my tank and it is ridiculous how fast and full, bright everything is growing. I will NEVER go back to T5,or Hals. Alot of money up front but in 9 years ill be laughing at the savings and not to mention the growth.. I think some of the problems people have is dinking with the tank too much, leave it alone, watch the levels, and let nature do its thing!

[ghostman]

I switched from T5s to the AI sols and am very happy with them as well. I think that there are several reasons why some people fail with them and others are very happy with them. For me there was an adjustment period of slow growth an poor color. The uptake of ALK and CA dropped. If someone was using an automated system to add ALK and CA, there might be a spike in levels that would add to the stress on the corals. After a month or so, my SPS colored up and began explosive growth, so much so that I had to purchase a dosing unit. Zoos and LPS have always been happy with my sols.
Another reason that I think people fail with sols is that they try to skimp on the number of units they need. I have 4 over a 4ft 120g, and I think is is well lit. The spread of LEDs is not great, even with 70 degree optics, people using 2 or 3 units over a 4 ft tank might not have adequate coverage, or the units may be spotlighting the tank. If you look at the PAR graphs of the sols, they appear to have a distinct small area of high PAR, much like a point-source spike. Anything in the center of this spike is getting too much light, and the outliers might be underlit. To compensate for this, more units are necessary.
This is just my experience and observations. I like the AIs but do feel they are not perfect. I would prefer a neutral white, rather than a cool white. All the colors of my corals are well represented, with the possible exception of SPS reds. I might consider adding a fiji purple T5 as a midday boost in color. HTH

[jbanks]

I had some issues the first few weeks but 5 months into switching from T5 to AI and I couldn't be happier. I like them so much that my new 180 will be lit by AI with a (2) bulb T5 retrofit. These pics are of my 30 cube powered by a single Sol.

What T5 fixture were you using before your swap.. Your tank looks very nice, but IME, your colors would be a lot more intense under T5s..

I've seen a lot of LED tanks in person including over a LED distributor's tank here in New York..... I would really like to see these lights become the primary choice in the hobby due to the low energy requirements and the crazy pop that is produced by the blue LEDs, when the whites are off.. But after what I've witnessed, these lights are not ready for prime time yet and should only be used by those who know what the secret is to having an LED tank with deep colors or don't mind just so-so colors.. I hope no one takes offense to this.

[FlyTekk]

Keep the fixture 12" off the water and use a couple actinic bulbs to lower the PAR.



Hey Ryan so one last question. I guess everyone can chime in as well. Lets say i do just that. 2 actinic bulb and keep lights 12" above water. Can i drop it to 11" after a month? Then 10....9....8. Probably wouldnt go lower than 8. 6 definately they most lowest ever.

Reason why i ask is cause im assuming that t5s are not stronger than the sun. So maybe the bleaching (or melting) occurs when the corals are subjected to the lights too quickly?

Since i'll spend a month on each 1 inch drop, ill have time to check corals out and make sure they are doing okay?

I find it hard to believe that my t5's can out par the sun at midday by the equator. Unless softies and lps only occur in deeper waters.

[kc350twin]

FlyTekk

I just switched back to T5's
6x24"
B+
b+
C+
P+
B+
B+

I have it 8" AWL and I have 400 Par up top near my SPS and 200ish on the sand. I tried to match the AI Sol I just took off. Staring at 10" should be fine. I agree with RT, the 24" light has a lot of side light spill and should be fine on a 40BR

It's a 24x24x18 tank

[kc350twin]

I did forget to mention that all my reflectors are bent so don't hold me to those numbers. Reefgeek is taking care of it as I type this.

http://img.tapatalk.com/a69375c3-7f5d-51b3.jpg


U just realized this thread is getting sidetracked. Sorry
Carry on.




Kc3

[FlyTekk]

Cool thanks. Im gonna go 2 actinics 2 blue plus and 2 purple plus and report back. 12+" to start

Still wondering if ill be able to lower this to 6-8 inches one day.

[jbanks]

T5s do lose thier intensity over time. So, it is certainly ok to lower them over the life of the bulbs in order to get the most you can out of them..

[FlyTekk]

Yea but im not refering to lowering them while they naturally dim. Im talking about lowering them and keeping them around 6-8" for ever. When i get new bulbs ill raise them a little and bring them back to target height 6"-8"

[rtparty]

Yea but im not refering to lowering them while they naturally dim. Im talking about lowering them and keeping them around 6-8" for ever. When i get new bulbs ill raise them a little and bring them back to target height 6"-8"

8" is the lowest I ever went. One reason was because of spread though. When I got down to 6" or so, I lost a lot of light on the edges where I had my LPS.

I wouldn't go lower than 8" and that is pushing it IMO. However, do what the corals tell you. If they aren't bleaching and look fine, lower the fixture. If they start bleaching, cut down the photo period or raise the fixture back up.

Don't try to compare our tanks and the lighting we use to the ocean. It is a COMPLETELY different ball game. Corals only receive the maximum PAR for an hour or two. In our tanks, they get blasted for 10 hours!

[FlyTekk]

ahhhhh, thats what i was looking for! So its the duration thats the problem. Not the intensity. Gotchya! Thanks!

[bvoss]

I did the ATI to AI switch and met with disaster. I have added lots of neutral white and warm white LEDs to the tank. Now after a more than 6 months my corals are starting to recover, but they are no where near as colorful as when I started. ATI PMs put out amazing PAR and great color. I wish I had never changed.

[manchreef7]

It really is amazing the crazy range of results with the AI fixtures. From incredible growth to complete disaster. I myself switched from a 250w hqi with a pheonix 14k to the AI blue. I couldnt be happier. I did love my pheonix 14k and got good growth but the growth and color im getting now with the sol is even better. I did almost go t5 but the fascination with leds took over. I just had to see what the fuss was about. Glad i did. In your particular case i dont think you could go wrong either way, but honestly the ATI is definately the more guaranteed choice. But i guess every tank is different. Here is mine
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/gregsreef1/8b172e94.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/gregsreef1/dc38e436.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx215/gregsreef1/37ffaf82.jpg

[jbanks]

Yea but im not refering to lowering them while they naturally dim. Im talking about lowering them and keeping them around 6-8" for ever. When i get new bulbs ill raise them a little and bring them back to target height 6"-8"

I keep mine around 8 inches throughout the life of the bulbs. Just be careful of putting any newcomers high up too quickly. You will fry them. Otherwise, you will be fine with 6-8. I've even seen them kept lower with great results. Here's a pic of my tank for reference:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/banksj/20120102_180254.jpg

[DaveG99]

I am setting up a new tank 32"x24"x15" and I was thinking about getting the AI sol blue or an ATI sunpower 6x24. Im getting the ATI. I currently have a rapidled par38 over a small nano and it works OK but the shadows are annoying. I think I would need 2 AI sol blues for my tank and I dont want to spend $1000 on lights. I know the AI sol blue lasts for many years but I guarantee in a year or two when new LED stuff comes out that the people with the AI's will be selling and upgrading to the new stuff. No one will keep their LED's for 10 years!

I have had a 175watt MH and (2) 39 watt t5's over a 40 breeder before and the growth was amazing along with the colors. Im sticking with T5's until the whlole LED stuff gets figured out.

[Tim98277]

So after all is said and done, I ended up getting a 8x54 Suntek and 3 ai's, the tank is currently cycling :bounce3:. I will post a pic when I move the 3 ai's that are over my 70. the suntek will sit up front at a slight angle facing back and the 3 ai's will be behind the suntek over the rock where most the corals will sit.

In the meantime, here is a sad sad photo from my phone of just the suntek above cycling the tank. Tons of caves and tunnels. With another 75 lbs of rock coming this Wednesday.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nk8033adrpE/T4ywWj2ELxI/AAAAAAAADt8/0bLKMOEl8VQ/s1047/IMG_20120416_165030.jpg

[TucanSam007]

I love my 6x39 ATI. Great colors and there's still a shimmer! It's not an led or a halide shimmer but its still there.

[Tim98277]

As I know it was tossed up in the air, back and forth many times. Well I decided to have gone with both AI's and T5's. 3 AI Modules and an 8x54 Suntek. I'll post another pic when I get my AI's dialed in with settings and also with the Suntek bulb setup. Once again thanks all for the info, I swayed back and forth and was starting to get sea sick lol.

Here it is...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HhPpAvhC9KM/T5pbTvMbgpI/AAAAAAAAD1Y/tNiWJrwMPBQ/s959/IMG_3292.JPG

Heres just a couple shots of some life in the tank
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KRXE1Nwgje8/T5jvJ-dh1YI/AAAAAAAAApo/KYDLUlkUqQo/s428/2012-04-25_23-43-14_90-1.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-38U6-9AWA0k/T5pbUCM73wI/AAAAAAAAD1g/lz73rqTsL-g/s959/IMG_3307.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0r554F5HA84/T5pbbfykp_I/AAAAAAAAD2I/7njSrTnO0a4/s959/IMG_3315.JPG

[Lhewie]

Your right, your tank is 36". The 36" ATI is too much light for such a shallow tank. You will have a VERY hard time keeping any softies or LPS in the tank and even some SPS won't be happy.

ATI's are way more powerful than you think. Trust me, I ran a 40g breeder for 8 months with a 4x24w ATI Sunpower.

http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv157/rtparty/FTS10-30.jpg

what did you used to hang this up?