Noise on Overflow

[kzziboy]

Okay,
First attempt at running a sump. I have a 55 gallon tank with a 20 long sump.
Overflow box is plumbed with pvc down to the first chamber of the sump.
There will be a protein skimmer there. Then over a baffle to the fuge, through a bubble trap back to the return area where there's a pump. From the pump there's flexible tubing back up to a ball valve then to pvc, then to the tank.

I'm not sure what the overflow box is rated at in GPH, but when I get the siphon going it's LOUD!!!!!!!!! Man! Gurgle, gurgle,gurgle with all kinds of big burps down below in the sump.
My return pump empties out the return chamber to fast for how long it takes the water to make it back over there.
I've tried closing the valve a bit on the return. hasn't worked yet.
Again, first time doing this.

First, what can I do with the noise on this overflow? It's just a regular HOB overflow with a skimmer box inside and a u-tube over the back into the bigger box. Keep in mind there's NOTHING else in this outside box. The water comes out in a divided off compartment, to keep this siphon should the power fail...then it flows over the baffle into the next compartment where it drains down into the sump.

Is my plumbing not right size wise? It's 1 inch pipe all the way down to the sump.
I's 3/4 inch flex tube to an adapter then back up to 1 inch tubing, through the ball valve, then to 1 inch PVC and back into the tank.

I'm a noob here so anything, as simple as it may be, may just help.

Thanks!

[2x2]

On the drain side of your over flow box there should be pvc insert to reduce the vortex sucking sound.


Try this

http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/

Hofer gurgle buster.

[rustyjames]

A gurgle buster will help but a single channel overflow will always be noisy. If your return pump is emptying your return chamber the pump is too big.

[2x2]

My return pump empties out the return chamber to fast for how long it takes the water to make it back over there.
I've tried closing the valve a bit on the return. hasn't worked yet.



Pictures might help with your help.


Closing the ball valve would work but how fast is your pump GPH?

[reefermad619]

Whats probably happening is that your drain is converting to a full siphon, the noise youre getting is all the air being expelled and pushed thru the pipe. Then You get a sudden rush of water to sump. This leaves the overflow with out enough water so then it starts sucking air. Your return pushes water back into tank, draining the sump and the drain pulls a siphon again. Then over and over again. Simplest fix, if you can, is drill some holes into the top of the drain. This will allow air and water to mix and won't create a siphon. Then you balance out your return by valving it back so it matches the rate the drain drains.

[kzziboy]

It's a 350 GPH pump.
Where exactly do I drill the holes?

[reefermad619]

Post pics of your overflow and plumbing in it pls.

[2x2]

It's a 350 GPH pump.
Where exactly do I drill the holes?


That's not much GPH, refermad is right.

Your drain sounds like it's in free for all mode. Nothing to regulate flow and air. If it's just a hole in the bottom it not going to work right. Did you pick your up your overflow box used? Sounds like your missing the insert in the drain to regulate air flow. If it's working right it should work at what ever rate you want to pump. No valve needed unless you exceed the overflow. So for example if your overflow is rated up to 600 gph and you have a 700 gph pump you might have problems.

[kzziboy]

yes it was used.
Yes, it's just a hole in the bottom down into the PVC plumbing. What can I manufacture to fix this?
Can I make something to stick into that hole? Some sort of stand pipe as referred to in a post above?

[2x2]

yes it was used.
Yes, it's just a hole in the bottom down into the PVC plumbing. What can I manufacture to fix this?
Can I make something to stick into that hole? Some sort of stand pipe as referred to in a post above?


OK it was used unit and was missing the insert on the drain, usually 6" PVC pipe with a small plastic ring glued inside for air flow. It sometimes has a filter sponge around it.

Simple follow these instructions from this web site to build your own PVC insert. take about $10 and an hour or so.


http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/


If you need more help post pictures.





It will insert into your drain so the water will rise and reduce the vortex affect.

[kzziboy]

Sweet. I'll do that.
Here's some pics...finally of what I've got.
Pay not attention to all the electrical. Just trying to get this thing working before I tidy everything up...

Also there's some pics of the return side.
Bummer...Right where the pvc goes into the valve on the TOP side it has a slow leak. It's threaded PVC and I feel like if I turn it in any tighter, it'll break. Any thoughts on that side?

[kzziboy]

Crap, pics didn't all attach.

Try that again, first the overflow...then the return.

[havnmonkey]

I put a pvc "T" section on top of the drain pipe in the overflow box, it is affixed vertically with a pvc cap on the top. That nearly silenced all my noise.

[kzziboy]

With my current set up I stuck an air line down with a valve on the end about 3 or 4 inches. Stopped the gurgling....however there's a huge amount of bubbles that come out in the sump chamber below. Will the mechanism that 2x2 suggested slow that down or is that something you just have to live with?

[kzziboy]

Bump

[2x2]

Bump


Once you slow it down the bubbles we reduce.

[kzziboy]

Thanks,
I'll give it a try sometime soon and report back...

[uncleof6]

Slow down the flow will cure the issue. Any mods you do to the overflow will still require the flow rate to be lowered. RM619 explained the issue fairly well, however, ultimately, the flow rate is too high for the box... there is no balance. The only drain system that is not noisy (noise being relative therefore not noisy = silent) is a siphon, however this would not be safe with your arrangement. Whatever you use will be an air/water type system, and they are low flow devices, with noise and bubbles if the flow rate is too high. This is a function of pipe size. 1" pipe/tubing, has a very low flow capacity (in an open channel = air/water) far below the 350 gph your pump is capable of. This is where the conversation goes toward 1.25" tubing (pipe) being the smallest practical size for open channel drains. The 1" will flow more yes, but it won't be pretty. Hence the binge and purge, gurgle and bubbles. Basically, the issue IS your pipe size, the flow rate, and the drain type.

[reefermad619]

Uncs back! Nice!

[Everyones Hero]

I had put an elbow onto the standpipe in mine, drilled a hole in the top, & put a piece of rigid airline down it. It wasn't silent but it was a lot better than the gurgling you're getting now.

I would have gotten an overflow with 2 drains. On one side you set the standpipe lower, put a ball valve on it & let it run in full siphon. On the 2nd you leave it unrestricted. Balance the water flow by adjusting the ball valves on the full siphon & return lines.

[*reefermadness*]

Have you fixed your leak? You may have luck wrapping the threads in teflon tape and then thread it in as per usual. That should fix the leak. The sound on the other hand, I really dont know what to tell you there. I have the same exact issue with my overflow box. I ordered it brand new from some company in China. Says it can handle up to 1000 gph, and all I run is a mag 7. Hope you get this figured out.

[*reefermadness*]

Also, do you have a siphon break drilled in your return line? I didnt read anything about you having one. Its a very simple concept, just drill a small hole on the tank side of your return, just below the water level, this will stop your return line from siphoning water when you turn the pump off. I can post pictures of mine if I didnt make myself clear enough. Just my 2 cents.

[kzziboy]

Yes! Got the siphon break. Totally meant to do it before I put it in the tank...of course I forgot. I then was testing everything and turned off the pump and realized I forgot. Got a little scared there!
I'm just headed out to get what I need to build the "gurgle buster" as mentioned about. What the hell, I'll try it, it's cheap!