I need help designing a overflow/return

[joeogio]

ok heres a breef idea of what i want to accomplish. i have a 40 gal breeder im setting up and im going to drill it its un tempered on all sides :D and i want a silent overflow

could i drill a really large hole say 3 inches and have a straight piece of pvc going straight down to my sump no elbows or flex. if im thinking right the water will run down the sides of the pipe and the only noise youd here is the water in the sump

what about the return should i have one on each side in the back or how would you do it?

[Bens_Reef]

i dont think that will be silent, you will hear the water hitting the sump out the top of the PVC.

there are 2 ways to do it, "herbie" method (dead silent) or durso standpipe(the method i use on my 40, safer IMO and much less involved).

you really only need one return on your 40 but you can split it so it empties into different parts of the tank

[joeogio]

what about the glass holes overflow kit? are they pretty quiet? would a 700gph rated overflow box be plenty enough?

[Ron Reefman]

I seriously doubt it would be quiet. Anytime you mix air and water it becomes very easy to get noise.

Are you going to have a refugium in the sump? They like slow flow (under 10x/hr). At 700gph you will be turning over your DT over 17 times an hour. That's way more than enough for what you want to accomplish in the sump. You'll still need more flow in the DT if you are doing a reef.

[Bens_Reef]

the overflow doesnt really determine how quiet it gonna be, if its setup correctly it will be silent. its the drains that make the noise.

durso method: uses small air inlet valves to adjust siphon speed, a little noise but tolerable, safer option IMO.

herbie method: is a full siphon regulated by gate valves where it exits to the sump, dead silent but an emergency drain is a must. so you will have a drain that sits there above your DT water level doing nothing, unless your herbie drain gets glogged and your DT starts to overflow, then the emergency drain takes over so you dont flood your house.

both drain options are reliable from what ive read and can be used pretty much with any overflow style.

the herbie style is the only one you can use with just PVC coming up from a bottom drilled tank(no overflow box) but you will still need 2 holes drilled for main and emergency.

does that help so far?

as far as the overflow box the 700 would be fine, your not going to run 700gph on a 40 i hope, i have a 714 gph pump but with headloss i am running 336 gph or so and thats plenty, i make up the 20x turnover in my DT with powerheads

[joeogio]

yeah Ben its a lot of help!

im gonna get the 700gph rated box and a mag 5 or 6 i think that will accomplish what i want to do with the tank

[JOSHRS3]

They sale a pre made durso standpipe. I can't remember where, but you can google it. I believe I paid around $23.00 shipped. Good quality! Really quiet for me and my tank is in the living room. I just run my over flow down to my sump with 2 90 angles and a quick disconnect in case I had to remove the sump. Piping stays in place, but gives me room to move without much effort. I put a T fitting on the bottom of the pipe going down into the sump which seemed to help with sound.

[nlgill13]

Im using a durso style drain and a mag 7 on my 90g....Remember that even though an overflow is rated at 700gph, with the extra piping and turns you are looking more at 600gph or less (due to frictional effects and minor loss).

On the return side, you will need to go a little bigger then the 600gph (due to headloss from pumping water up to the tank).... This will also give you a little room to adjust a ball valve so that your durso pipe or herbie pipe doesn't drain too fast (gargling sound) or too slow (overflow/flood)

[Bens_Reef]

im gonna get the 700gph rated box and a mag 5 or 6 i think that will accomplish what i want to do with the tank

you will be at 2-300 gph with the mag5 with around 4 feet of head

i have the rough equivalent of a mag7 on my 40B, using the calculator on RC's home page i am right around half of my pumps rated GPH and pretty happy with that amount of flow, i do have my return split in 2 to help spread the pressure because one 3/4" return was blowing sand everywhere but split to two 1" outlets and everything is good

[joeogio]

thanks everyone for your help

[Danzig]

yeah Ben its a lot of help!

im gonna get the 700gph rated box and a mag 5 or 6 i think that will accomplish what i want to do with the tank

check out the eheim compact+ 3000 pump on amazon or bulk reef supply. Its nice and small, powerful and adjustable. Its very affordable also, i paid $89 including S&H. rated at 790ish GPH at full strength.

[uncleof6]

I seriously doubt it would be quiet. Anytime you mix air and water it becomes very easy to get noise.

Are you going to have a refugium in the sump? They like slow flow (under 10x/hr). At 700gph you will be turning over your DT over 17 times an hour. That's way more than enough for what you want to accomplish in the sump. You'll still need more flow in the DT if you are doing a reef.


Flow rate in the refugium is irrelevant to its function, other than it be swift enough to prevent debris from falling out and collecting in the sump/fuge. The only place dwell time (flow rate) is of significance, is within the body of a skimmer.

Pump ratings are usually at 0' of head pressure, once the system is plumbed, these pumps will not approach their rated flow rate. So realistically, the OP will most likely, not be over pumped. You select a pump by its flow curve, and given "head pressure" with which it will operate. The pump rating, will always seem it is over sized.

[uncleof6]

ok heres a breef idea of what i want to accomplish. i have a 40 gal breeder im setting up and im going to drill it its un tempered on all sides :D and i want a silent overflow

could i drill a really large hole say 3 inches and have a straight piece of pvc going straight down to my sump no elbows or flex. if im thinking right the water will run down the sides of the pipe and the only noise youd here is the water in the sump

what about the return should i have one on each side in the back or how would you do it?

You have three options:

1: Durso, stockman, and clones, known as open channels or air/water mix standpipes. These are low flow devices, they are unstable, never completely silent or bubble free unless the flow rates are very low (~ 350 gph for 1.5" pipe and worse for smaller sizes.

2: Herbie's system. The herbie is silent, however it is prone to instability. It is "safe" but it is not failsafe.

3: BeanAnimals system. Silent, self adjusting, bubble free, with an extremely wide bandwidth (range of flow rates) for a given pipe size.

I strongly recommend that you visit the DIY section, where drain systems design, setup, and troubleshooting have been extensively been covered.

Start here, then continue in the DIY section.

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx




...

the herbie style is the only one you can use with just PVC coming up from a bottom drilled tank(no overflow box) but you will still need 2 holes drilled for main and emergency.



This is not entirely accurate. An overflow has 1 specific purpose: surface skimming. An open standpipe, (not behind a "weir" -- the front wall of an over flow) especially a siphon, close enough to the surface to provide any surface skimming, will suck air, and become an open channel (air/water mix,) and create the very problem you are trying to eliminate by using the siphon line to begin with. It is essential that ALL drain systems be behind a weir.

Organics collect at the air/water interface at the surface of the tank. These organics form a film or "oil slick" on the surface. This film, inhibits gas exchange, and will remain on the surface, unless the surface is skimmed. The surface layer must be removed, and drawing water from below this layer will not remove the surface film.

Overflows were invented to deal with this issue, the Durso was invented to deal with the issues associated with overflows, the Herbie was invented to deal with the problems associated with Dursos (stockman etc), and Bean's system was invented to deal with the issues associated with the Herbie.

[jeff@zina.com]

Beananimal.com. Done. :)

Jeff