BIG lighting delema! Icecap w/ HQI 250w 10K Ushio problems

[Mike W]

Ok, just when I thought I had my lighting designed for my new ~350 gal Starphire tank I run into a problem.
I decided to see what all the fuss is about with the HQI bulbs and ordered a single kit from Reefers to evaluate. It included an Icecap 250w MH electronic ballast, a 250w 10K Ushio bulb & a PFO mini hood designed for the double ended bulbs.
The crux of the issue is that the Icecap ballast in an attempt to overdrive the bulb is causing a slight pulsing effect in the bulb. It appears that the bulb is flickering. This effect appears to be fairly standard with this bulb.
Are others out there dealing with the same issue? Does the pulsing bother you?
I really don't think I can deal with this. I need a total of 4 setups over this tank so we will be talking about $1400 in lighting.
I ABSOLUTLY LOVE the Ushio 10K bulbs. Beats the pants off everything else I have tried. I don't really like the color of the Iwaskis in any combination of supplemental lighting.
I love the fact that the IC ballasts produce MUCH less heat, weigh 1/15 of the weight and generate more light than a standard ballast.

Possible Solutions:
1) Ask Icecap to tune ballasts to lower output to standard tar ballasts to fix pulsing problem. If possible.
2) Return Icecap and order PFO ballast to drive HQI bulbs. This solution will be around $300 cheaper too...

Other ideas????

Thanks to everyone out there for all your help and ideas as I design my new system!!!

[golfish]

I use a dual PFO on my 2x250 watt HQI mini pendants. I have read too many bad things about IC ballast for me to use them....How about you send the ballast back to IC for tunning, then see how it does. Maybe you can run two pendants on IC and two on PFO and let us know what you like better;)

Good choice in lighting, I really like my 10K Ushio bulbs

[Mike W]

Golfish:

It does not appear that they can retune for this bulb.
After a lengthy discussion with Andy over at Icecap it became clear that what I was seeing is a slight pulsing that appears to be the norm with the Ushio 10K HQI bulb ONLY. Not any other bulb. This is the normal operating mode of the Ushio 10K HQI bulb with the Icecap 250w ballast. It is not correctable unfortunatly.

Also, per Andy at Icecap directly he feels that the over drive on the bulb is part of the cause since they are able to correct this issue if they back off and drive the bulb comparabe to any standard ballast. Naturally I tend to agree with Icecap's philosophy in driving the bulb hard to squeeze every available par out of it and wish I could make it work with this bulb.

BTW: Icecap has been great to deal with for this issue. They are very responsive and have been willing to go the distance to satisfy a somwhat picky customer.

[MtnDewMan]

I also recently went with the 250W HQI system with a 10000k bulb. I love the 10000k bulb color much better than the 250W Iwasaki I had been using. I have had no flickering problems with my PFO ballast. Works great. Good luck with the Icecap ballast solutions. Please keep us updated.

[golfish]

batman:

I have read that IC does have good customer service. Too bad about ballast not working tho.

Did you read the reply Perry gave you over at Reefland?

Have you seen the dual PFO HQI ballast yet? Its big at 18" long and about 40lbs. My 2 year old daughter sat on it a few weeks ago, it didn't burn her but she wont do that again. It does get hot......

[Mike W]

After another lenghtly discussion with Andy I decided to have Icecap tune down the output of the Icecap 250w ballast to stabilize the 10K Ushio HQI bulbs.
The advantage is that while I will only be outputing the same PAR as a regular tar ballasts I will be getting all of the other benefits of an electronic ballast...

This company really has GREAT customer service!

[Clyde]

clap clap

i look foward to a 250HQI 10K on my prop setup SOON and see how I like it, maybe upgrade ALL my lights to 250HQI

[jgwinner]

Hey, sorry to bust in late on this thread.

I really wanted to try the Icecap ballast on the Ushio bulb; disappointing to hear it flickers.

I do find it rather odd that the Ushio bulb 'requires' an HQI ballast; I contacted a retailer of the Ushio bulbs, and downloaded the Ushio 10K 250w spec sheet - they seem to require an M80 ballast. This doesn't seem to be an HQI ballast, but I'm not sure.

Check out:
http://www.businesslights.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=771&category_id=4c2545df21ed95744b45ff5c93264364&

Is a TAR or Blueline ballast going to be the equivalent of the ANSI M80?

== John ==

[Mike W]

John.
The Ushio DOUBLE ENDED bulb requires an HQI ballast. The confusion is that you are probably talking about the mogul style bulb In which case you are correct on the ballast...

[jgwinner]

I did not confuse the mogul bulb with the double ended bulb.

The DOUBLE ended bulb requires an "M80" ANSI ballast.

This could be an HQI ballast, it doesn't seem that common, but the spec sheet for the double ended bulb says M80.

Check out the URL I posted and see if it looks like a mogul bulb!

== John ==

[Mike W]

My apologies. In my haste I did not check the link. It's a good question though. The ballast could not be too different since the Icecap ballast that I am using is tuned to work with all other bulbs other than the Iwaski 65K.

[jgwinner]

Thanks ..

I have a hunch that the M80 'is' an HQI. Finding the electrical definition of what 'HQI' is hasn't been easy either (I'm an EE by background).

I did just hear from someone who says that the M80 is made by Advance. I'd prefer electronic, but as the Icecap seems to 'overdrive' lamps, I'm not sure now if electronic really gets me much more than heat and weight savings.

== John ==

[Mike W]

Heat and weight: ABSOLUTLY!!!!! The heat generation is 1/20th of a regular tar ballast. The size/weight factor is also great!!!

Standard(not electrical) def of HQI = Mercury (Hg) Quartz Iodide. What the difference is electrically I am not sure. I would give a call over to Icecap and talk to Andy directly. These guy are VERY helpfull...

[jgwinner]

Ah, interesting about the HQI == Mercury. I'll have to check up on this.

I have an electronic 175w Mercury ballast I picked up for about 30 bucks. I tested it on a 175w MH, and it seemed to work OK, but I didn't have a chance to test the current, power, etc. I later disconnected the bulb to avoid any issues.

This makes me wonder if I could use the same 'Lights of America' Mercury vapor if I can get it in a 250w. Still, the bulbs are not cheap, and the ballast isn't really the big cost here anyway.

== John ==

[SuperNerd]

Originally posted by MtnDewMan
I also recently went with the 250W HQI system with a 10000k bulb. I love the 10000k bulb color much better than the 250W Iwasaki I had been using. I have had no flickering problems with my PFO ballast.

10, 000K DE or SE bulb?

[IceCap Service]

For updated information, all the flickering issues with the double ended lamps was with the "Old-Style" ballast. As you can see this thread starts 4 years ago. Over 3 years ago Icecap came out with the new style ballast which runs the double ended and single ended lamps with no flicker.

[jgwinner]

Quite an old thread.

I agree - I've used the Icecap Ballast with DE bulbs as well as the ballasts from Hello Lights, and get no flicker. They seem to work OK with X10 also (octopus, etc). The ARO ballast will fire an SE or DE bulb (at least the bulbs I've tried, Ushio 10k and an AB 20k if I remember right).

http://www.hellolights.com/elbalmethal1.html (Hello Lights Metal Halide Ballast page)

(Just a satisfied customer)

My Icecap is great too, although I haven't tried a SE bulb on it. I've given up on those, used up my last one. I haven't compared two of the same bulbs with the Icecap and ARO ballasts. Right now I have a 10k 250w and a 20k 250w in the tank.

== John ==