Time for a Salt Change?

[bheron]

I've read alot of posts and threads here, including the sticky on salt mixes. I can't say I've ever proven anything directly related to my current salt mix, but I have noticed what seems to be residue in my mixing drum. And, over time, i definitely get a built up of what looks to be mold/algae/scum. Im sure that could be alot of things, but I work hard to keep the drum clean and use only RODI water. My fresh water drum with the RODI never has the buildup. Only difference, I think, is the mixing pumps. I did test a few times for P04 and reading came back 0.00 on a hanna checker.

Anyway, I ask b/c I use something called "MEI" or "Marine Enterprises International". I've found very limited threads on here, a few saying people had problems.

I use this salt purely for cost reasons. I get a 150 gallong box for $21.99! I have a tank with about 300g volume and do frequent water changes. This salt is at least 1/2 the price of other salts (about $0.15 per gallon) and the only salt i've ever really used. Other better known salts are anywhere from $0.29 to $0.42 per gallon. I hate basing it all on costs but when i have such a large volume for WCs it really comes into play - $285 compared to $600-$800 for a year's supply of salt.

Anyway, think its possible salt mix has that much effect to spend 2x as much? Is it possible a cheaper salt has impurities leading to nutrient buildup?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not a fan of that salt based on old experiences folks have had, but they may well have changed it. FWIW, I think it is worth spending the money to step up to IO.

Here's a very old, very long thread on it:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168736

[shaggss]

I currently use RBS but if IO is ok for Randy then it's ok for me and will be changing out slowly.

Some salts leave a residue and from what Randy says its not a problem. Though the mold / algae doesn't sound right so I'm sure Randy will chime in.

cheers

[shaggss]

Haha beat me to it!

[Greg 45]

I went back to reef crystals

[bheron]

THanks for all of the feedback Randy and everyone. I wasnt sure what I'd get if I threw this question out there. I started to read through that older, long thread. Havent finished but defintiely something there. i think it also comes down to getting what you pay for. If this salt is half the prices of everything else, there has to be something not quite right. So thanks so much for helping me find a direction here. Today I'm going out to try a new salt..

Randy - you say "IO" meaning Instant Ocean right? Any particular type like the "Reef Crystals" Greg 45 menitions? I'm used to seeing it packaged like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Instant-Ocean-Reef-Crystals-Salt-Mix-160gal-Bucket-/200387954321?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ea80d8691

but also found this (without the "reef crystals")

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110459208726

Any difference?

[rayjay]

I've been using just the regular Instant Ocean for 18 years now.
If it didn't work then I think it wouldn't have become so popular even though it is a lower price.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I meant the regular Instant Ocean. :)

[cricket3764]

Hello have anybody use the salt MICROBE-LIFT reef salt

[bertoni]

I don't recall many comments on the Microbe Lift salt for a while now. You might find some threads if you do a search in the older threads.

[bheron]

Ok, have been using my first 160 gallong bucket mix of IO for a week now. Too early to tell if there's been any differences.

Am about to buy some more of it, in bulk, and noticed drfosters and smith has both a 160 gallon "bucket" and a 200 gallon "box" for roughly the same price. Will try to contact the MFR to see if there's any difference.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There are no formulation differences based on the package type for IO. :)

[power boat jim]

Been using the IO box for a couple years now, tried others before IO. This seems to be a good value for the money. Havent heard a a word of complaint from my reef!

[thor109]

The box is 4 unmarked bags 50 gallons each. It's cheaper for them to package that way.

[bheron]

Thanks for everyone's input here. 6 mos later and wanted to share my results (nothing too exciting).

So I went and purchased 200 gallon boxes of Instant Ocean from Drs Foster and Smith (great deal using Bill Me Later no payments for 6 months!).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/IMG-20120521-00337.jpg

I cant say I noticed a difference in my tank or issues with P04. Overall I'm happy. I did love that each box comes with a bag of salt for 50 gallons of mixing. Perfect for me since I use 55 gallon mixing tanks. Meant no more measuring for me! Just cut open a bag and dumped it in. Worked great.

On the negative side, I did, however, notice this:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a290/bheron/IMG-20120521-00335.jpg

Thats a picture of my 55 gallon mixing tank.
I noticed with my first batch of mixing that the water never cleared up. And it seemed like there was "sediment" of some sort that floated on the top.
I may have mentioned above, but I had this with my previous salt.
However this time, it was much worse.

I have no idea what it is, or if its good or bad but I'll be starting a separate thread next to see if I can figure it out.

[kissman]

the best thing i think in looking for salt. Is buy a bucket use it see how your tank responds, if you don't like it try another until you find a salt that your tank does the best with. I went through IO, Reef Crystals, Seachem Reef, Coralife, I decided to try Red Sea Coral Pro and my tank seemed to reacat the best to that and I have been using it ever since. There was someething about each brand I liked and disliked. Red Sea seemed to fit my tank the best.

[bheron]

any of your salts ever do this in the pics above?

[rayjay]

Did you have a power head to keep the salt in motion?
I use a hagen 802 power head plus an open ended air line, leaving it overnight before using. (55g olive barrel)

[kissman]

every salt I have used has left calcium residue

[bheron]

oh so maybe thats it. It does seem calcerous - not easy to clean off. I'm emailing IO to see for sure. thanks.

[kissman]

onething i have noticed when I make up my 20g brute, the slower I pour the salt into the water the less build up I get.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

From the other thread:

It is normal to have precipitated calcium carbonate in most salt mixes.

I discuss it here:

What is that Precipitate in My Reef Aquarium?
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm

from it:

Solid Residues Remaining After Preparing Artificial Seawater
Most salt mixes leave behind a solid residue when dissolved, although the extent to which this occurs varies from brand to brand. I use Instant Ocean and rarely clean out the 44-gallon trashcan that I mix it in, so a significant residue builds up over time (Figure 1). In preparation for this article I removed some of this solid material, and found that it could be almost completely dissolved in hydrochloric acid with lots of bubbling. This demonstrates that these solids were probably calcium carbonate (CaCO3), perhaps also containing magnesium. Pure magnesium carbonate is undersaturated in seawater (which is detailed in later sections of this article) 1 and should dissolve in marine systems, so it isn't likely to be the precipitated material, although there may be significant magnesium in the calcium carbonate.

Based on the fact that the material exists as sheets that clearly did not arrive in the mix (as opposed to a fine powder which might have), I conclude that at least a significant fraction of this residue formed in the barrel. I cannot, however, rule out the possibility that some solid calcium or magnesium carbonate may have existed in the salt mix and was cemented together by additional precipitation of calcium carbonate during dissolution or storage.

When salt mixes are dissolved, there exist local regions where the salt concentration is very high. In those local regions, the calcium and alkalinity must also be very high. In fact, as seawater is concentrated by evaporation, there is a well-established series of minerals that precipitate as the salinity increases. In this series, calcium and magnesium carbonate are the first to precipitate, appearing at a specific gravity of about 1.140, which is about a 50% solution of salt in water.1 Such conditions may well exist on the bottom of a saltwater reservoir as the salt is dissolving.

With some mixes (but not the Instant Ocean that I use), the initial pH on dissolution may be very high (pH 8.5-9 +). As shown in detail later in this article, pH can play a dominant role in determining the rate of calcium carbonate precipitation, and such a high pH would make it more likely to precipitate.

It has been suggested by some aquarists that some salt mixes may contain anti-caking agents, such as clays. I do not know if this is true, but if it is, they may form part of the residue that is left behind after dissolution.

In order to minimize the formation of insoluble carbonate salts when mixing, the following suggestions may be helpful:

1. Add the salt to a full batch of water, rather than adding water slowly to a large batch of salt. The latter allows a greater time at much higher than natural seawater salinity, which may tend to precipitate calcium and magnesium salts.

2. Stir the mixture vigorously as it is being dissolved.

3. If using a mix with a high initial pH, aerate the mixture as well as stirring it. The aeration will reduce the pH.

Figure 1. The residue on the bottom of the plastic trash can that I use to mix Instant Ocean. I rarely clean it out. The solid is most likely calcium carbonate.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/images/Figure_1.jpg

[bheron]

thank you! responding on other thread.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Happy Reefing. :)

[mos90]

i just switched back to regular i/o . ive had the best luck with it over other salts. i like it better then r/c also.