Finally at peace, back to full ati t5's -no more ai sols!

[deepseadan]

Well I was fortunate enough to sell my 3 ai sol units for $1000, and I only took a $300 loss. But to me the $300 loss is well worth the almost instant positive response from everything in my tank. For the life of me I can't figure out why the ai sols were such a bust, I had big hopes and dreams for them. I was actually getting a little depressed and my interest level on the hobby was dwindling because of the health of my tank. Sps color had gone haywire to brown and bleached, and I saw an almost instant stop in healthy growth. I had the sols for nearly 4 months, and I tried everything......all the advice and tricks in the world didn't make much difference. Now I'm two weeks back with ati t5's and what a HUGE improvement already! I also am much happier with the look to the human eye as well, with the sols I never could find the sweet spot. The three morals to my reef story, if it's working great don't fix it, ai sols didn't live up to any of the hype I heard, and last, I learned it wasn't that I was a poor reef and Sps keeper, because going back to t5s proved it was in fact only lighting. Anyone else in the same boat?

[ReefTankHunter]

Thanks for posting. What size tank do you have, and how many T5 bulbs do you run. I have a 90 gal with ATI 4 bulb fixture with afew SPS growing ok. I think might be a little on the weak side , but its working for now.

[Zackb911]

I was also less than impressed with the AI's and have seen many other post the same as well.

I'm going MH/T5 combo myself.

[meshwheel]

Dan,
WOW! THAT SOUND SLIKE ONE ROLLERCOASTER RIDE THERE BUDDY! The only visualy thing I do not like about the AI'S is there lackluster daylight color! I think it's like a 6500K led?????
I got to compare it to a Acan fisture which uses their own 10K LED and boy did it look better to me.
I run 250 watt 14K halide and have ran T5's in the past. I dunno, but that's a lot of clams to shell out for LED's.
I am still not convinced yet...................

[meshwheel]

Dan,
WOW! THAT SOUND SLIKE ONE ROLLERCOASTER RIDE THERE BUDDY! The only visualy thing I do not like about the AI'S is there lackluster daylight color! I think it's like a 6500K led?????
I got to compare it to a Acan fisture which uses their own 10K LED and boy did it look better to me.
I run 250 watt 14K halide and have ran T5's in the past. I dunno, but that's a lot of clams to shell out for LED's.
I am still not convinced yet...................

[krzyphsygy]

How many bulbs you running on t5? What combo makes it different for you from the Ai's?

[redfishblewfish]

I am totally confused. I read other posts of how others are growing sps like crazy under AI Sols. And now seeing posts like this??

I almost hate to ask, but could you have “burnt” your corals from the lights being too bright at first. Did you slowly ramp up the LEDs? Again I read that others started at 40% and slowly raised the intensity.

Again I ask, why do others report that they are getting tremendous growth?


Confusing since I’m considering going from T5’s to LEDs!!!

[rtparty]

I am totally confused. I read other posts of how others are growing sps like crazy under AI Sols. And now seeing posts like this??

I almost hate to ask, but could you have “burnt” your corals from the lights being too bright at first. Did you slowly ramp up the LEDs? Again I read that others started at 40% and slowly raised the intensity.

Again I ask, why do others report that they are getting tremendous growth?


Confusing since I’m considering going from T5’s to LEDs!!!


Are you going to come out and admit that your $1500 purchase was the biggest mistake you ever made?

No way! People will fight to the death of why their hard earned money was spent correctly and that LEDs are working. They will chalk up a few losses and be okay with it.

I have been using LEDs for almost 9 months now and I still am less than impressed. I sit and tinker with things to get the look I want --- a Phoenix 14k bulb. Adding the UV strip helped a bunch but still not there. There is just something missing. I can't pin point what that "something" is but my eyes don't lie.

The blue LEDs are amazing though! They fluoresce colors better than any other lighting I have ever used. LEDs have about 6 more months for me and then they will be sold.

There are some people out there having great success and I wish them all the best and say congrats. For me, it is still in the testing stages.

[Robert1969]

After a year with leds(not AI's) I just went back to t5's a couple days ago. My red planet is starting to get its color back after being bleached out. Miami hurricane is also getting a little darker. Hopefully this positive reaction will continue.
Sorry to jump on your post just was feeling like I was the only one ditching LEDs then seen this post.

[mordibv]

Well I was fortunate enough to sell my 3 ai sol units for $1000, and I only took a $300 loss. But to me the $300 loss is well worth the almost instant positive response from everything in my tank. For the life of me I can't figure out why the ai sols were such a bust, I had big hopes and dreams for them. I was actually getting a little depressed and my interest level on the hobby was dwindling because of the health of my tank. Sps color had gone haywire to brown and bleached, and I saw an almost instant stop in healthy growth. I had the sols for nearly 4 months, and I tried everything......all the advice and tricks in the world didn't make much difference. Now I'm two weeks back with ati t5's and what a HUGE improvement already! I also am much happier with the look to the human eye as well, with the sols I never could find the sweet spot. The three morals to my reef story, if it's working great don't fix it, ai sols didn't live up to any of the hype I heard, and last, I learned it wasn't that I was a poor reef and Sps keeper, because going back to t5s proved it was in fact only lighting. Anyone else in the same boat?

U must mean if it's working great .....don't break it...:)..I went from t5's to mh 2 leds to halides ...back to leds and when I can find a tank ...it will be t5's
It was a mixed bag for me . Some corals looked great and grew like crazy and some went south. I was having the elusive red acro issue .
I will still use the leds for the frag/sump/refugium because I refuse to take a loss on the unit I have .
ATI 8 bulb pm is still in the box but maybe ..i'll get to plug it in soon . I am keeping myself busy atm with a dry fit and equipment placement . wire mgt..etc

[NatureNerd]

Well, every tank is different I guess. My switch from MH's supplemented with flourescent lights to AI super blue Sol's was, and still is, very successful. i will say, the first four months were a little rough as I had some corals get paler, not really bleached, but more pastel-like in color. After some adjustments that problem seems to be solved. Nine months now, growth rates continue to be great, colors are very good, different, but still very nice. The only negative for me is that one colony, my ponape bird nest, does not look as colorful. It is too light colored for my taste.

I have learned that what works for one tank doesn't always work for another. It isn't, in all cases, the justification concept proposed above. My tank is doing as well or better with the Sol's. The advantages of LED's, for me, are significant.

Your experience is different than mine, maybe because I started with small colonies and MH's vs T5's, who knows.

[deepseadan]

Thanks for posting. What size tank do you have, and how many T5 bulbs do you run. I have a 90 gal with ATI 4 bulb fixture with afew SPS growing ok. I think might be a little on the weak side , but its working for now.

I have a 90 gallon tank, 48"l x 18"w X 24"D. I had three 2nd gen ai sol blues turned sideways, mounted about 8" inches above the water line. I started them at 30 percent and slowly ramped them up. As I said, I tried everything under the sun to make them work. I read every reef central post. Probably the worst investment of my life. I've been keeping reefs for over 15 years, and sps for 6 years. I had better sps luck with my very first original pc's, at least they grew (even thought they were brown). I am back using my 6 bulb sun blaze fixture with 3 aquablue specials, 2 blue plus and 1 purple plus. They may use more energy, but my sps flourish under them. Like I said, two weeks and MAJOR positive's already.

My theories why they weren't successful are:
1. The optics create a "poor coverage" environment
Some areas are blasted, other missed.

2. The spectrum is not well liked by corals, especially sps

3. Something is missing, maybe it's heat "energy" transfer from the leds,
MH and t5's both transfer much heat and maybe "uv" into the water. (just a guess though, I'm not a scientist)

4. I wish I knew?

I read some positive and negative reviews before purchasing, I just had to learn the hard way I guess. The shimmer effect and adjustability sold me. What good are those features if they won't grow happy corals.

Last I don't care what anyone claims, I've been there and done the LED experiment, and I won't believe anyone who says they grow amazing sps. It was hard for me to admit defeat, and if I hadn't sold my ai sols and only taken a $300 loss, I probably would have kept my mouth closed too. My story.

Dan

[NatureNerd]

You will be happy with T5's. They work great for SPS's. They can grow anything. I agree with most of your points above.

I believe the spectrum for good coral health and growth can be achieved with LED's. I also believe that some corals don't seem to respond as well as others. My blue hoke tort is better than ever, both monti's are nicer color than they were, my digitata is better, my red planet is nicer, one of my bonsai's is nicer. But then, one bonsai is nice but more pale, my ponape BN is too pale. In the other category, my crocea clam and LTA anemone are the best I have ever seen them, but my leather coral doesn't fully open as much as before. Different results perhaps due to position in the tank, possibly something else, probably related to the switch in lighting.

[ReefTankHunter]

I have a 90 gallon tank, 48"l x 18"w X 24"D. I had three 2nd gen ai sol blues turned sideways, mounted about 8" inches above the water line. I started them at 30 percent and slowly ramped them up. As I said, I tried everything under the sun to make them work. I read every reef central post. Probably the worst investment of my life. I've been keeping reefs for over 15 years, and sps for 6 years. I had better sps luck with my very first original pc's, at least they grew (even thought they were brown). I am back using my 6 bulb sun blaze fixture with 3 aquablue specials, 2 blue plus and 1 purple plus. They may use more energy, but my sps flourish under them. Like I said, two weeks and MAJOR positive's already.

My theories why they weren't successful are:
1. The optics create a "poor coverage" environment
Some areas are blasted, other missed.

2. The spectrum is not well liked by corals, especially sps

3. Something is missing, maybe it's heat "energy" transfer from the leds,
MH and t5's both transfer much heat and maybe "uv" into the water. (just a guess though, I'm not a scientist)

4. I wish I knew?

I read some positive and negative reviews before purchasing, I just had to learn the hard way I guess. The shimmer effect and adjustability sold me. What good are those features if they won't grow happy corals.

Last I don't care what anyone claims, I've been there and done the LED experiment, and I won't believe anyone who says they grow amazing sps. It was hard for me to admit defeat, and if I hadn't sold my ai sols and only taken a $300 loss, I probably would have kept my mouth closed too. My story.

DanI was going to add led strips to my ati 4 bulb, over my 90, I changed my mind.Going to build a two bulb fixture,Get my parts from reefgeek, Going to use a dimmable ballast. And thanks again. It helped me make up my mind.

[doctorgori]

Are you going to come out and admit that your $1500 purchase was the biggest mistake you ever made?

No way! People will fight to the death of why their hard earned money was spent correctly and that LEDs are working. They will chalk up a few losses and be okay with it.......

ha ha....maybe we should combine this thread with the $400 echotech powerhead comparison threads (p.s h3ll yes I'm hating)

[stevedola]

I had the exact same results with AI sols blue. I went back to an ATI fixture and my corals look great. I learned the hardway that there is something off with the AIs...atleast the way I was using them which toasted/bleached/or browned out nearly everything I had.

[meshwheel]

could it possibly be people going from T5's to LED's ? Very interesting and ALARMING at the same time............

[rtparty]

ha ha....maybe we should combine this thread with the $400 echotech powerhead comparison threads (p.s h3ll yes I'm hating)

You can hate all you want but NO ONE is killing their tanks because they spent a chunk of money to upgrade their flow. It is ridiculous to even try and compare this thread with those threads.

[kc350twin]

Again I read that others started at 40% and slowly raised the intensity

This advice of the "lower the intensity" BS is one of the biggest downfalls of instant LED failure I think. If I were to turn down my leds 60% and slowly increase the intensity a few percent at a time, ofcoarse there would be issues. Plus the fact that going from a broad coverage of T5's to point of source lights of LED. Its going to need some re-aquascaping for sure. There is just too many variables to give such blanket statement's like this and I have seen it repeated over and over again. I think thats why AI states to have a PAR meter on hand.



KC3

[jimrawr]

OP, I had the same results as you but with a Vertex Illumina. Going to T5 my corals were so happy after only a week I could start to see changes in colors and growth. Ended up costing me about $300 for the experiment also.

[DavidinGA]

I'm new to the hobby but like everthing else in life you don't want to jump into new technology until it has been extensively tested and proven to be successful. Aside from growth my main concern with led is the presumed statement that an led setup is good for "50k hours" or "10 years" and that's how it is better deal than t5/mh's. I don't know about you but I would wager that maybe 5% of those units will last that long before they fail or diminish output to the point that they will no longer grow anything...being able to change a bulb and have your light back to 100% power is priceless imo!

I was debating getting an led setup but instead I am going with a more reliable and successful T5 setup.

[RtReef]

This is strange. In my opinion the LED's do work great. I started on low intensity and slowly increased and all my corals seem happy. I am only running one AI SOL white over my tank. After speaking with several owners of the AI White model and reading up, I decided to go with this model for more practical reasons. The SOL Blue is nice but I feel it is more or a reefers preference b/c of the "blue" look. The white makes the tank appear it's under natural sunlight and actually some of my corals like the favia, in particular, really opened up and the color has been much sharper and more intense. My clam has also opened up real well under this light in comparison to T5.

IMO lighting is a matter of preference. When switching over from an alternate lighting a huge factor has to do with how you set up and take time to learn it, especially with LED's where you can actually adjust intensity and many other factors where as a T5 and MH you just turn on and no adjustments needed. This is so important due to the power intensity LED's have, they can scorch everything if the time is not invested in them. This is NOT a light you can just plug in and turn on without adjusting it first.

LED is not a new technology and has been around for years. I know several LFS that have their coral only over LED lighting and has been that way for years. LED gets a bad wrap from people not taking the time to learn them in accordance with what their tank is telling them. I have not been in the hobby long enough but I'm sure T5's and MH used to get a bad wrap when they first were introduced back when PC lights were the "best". Now you mention PC and people immediately think what an old technology and not good. Give it time because that will soon be how it is with T5's

Another thing that stands out to me is 8" is rather close the the water line. It is recommended to be 12" from water line.

[power boat jim]

I have a 90 gallon tank, 48"l x 18"w X 24"D. I had three 2nd gen ai sol blues turned sideways, mounted about 8" inches above the water line. I started them at 30 percent and slowly ramped them up. As I said, I tried everything under the sun to make them work. I read every reef central post. Probably the worst investment of my life. I've been keeping reefs for over 15 years, and sps for 6 years. I had better sps luck with my very first original pc's, at least they grew (even thought they were brown). I am back using my 6 bulb sun blaze fixture with 3 aquablue specials, 2 blue plus and 1 purple plus. They may use more energy, but my sps flourish under them. Like I said, two weeks and MAJOR positive's already.

My theories why they weren't successful are:
1. The optics create a "poor coverage" environment
Some areas are blasted, other missed.

2. The spectrum is not well liked by corals, especially sps

3. Something is missing, maybe it's heat "energy" transfer from the leds,
MH and t5's both transfer much heat and maybe "uv" into the water. (just a guess though, I'm not a scientist)

4. I wish I knew?

I read some positive and negative reviews before purchasing, I just had to learn the hard way I guess. The shimmer effect and adjustability sold me. What good are those features if they won't grow happy corals.

Last I don't care what anyone claims, I've been there and done the LED experiment, and I won't believe anyone who says they grow amazing sps. It was hard for me to admit defeat, and if I hadn't sold my ai sols and only taken a $300 loss, I probably would have kept my mouth closed too. My story.

Dan

Sorry to hear that your LED experiment didnt work, but saying you wont believe anyone can have success using LEDs would be ignoring tons of evidence to the contrary. I for one have had great success with the AI blues. Many things in this hobby work for some but not others. There are some corals that seem to have a tough time with LEDs. Red planet seems to one I cant get back the color on. On the other hand my monties are looking better then under MH. All the other sps are the same as MH or now have more vivid color. Im still giving frags of stuff away that overgrows into neighboring corals just as often as I did before the switch.

The answer may be hybrid system of LED and t5 suppliment. I added two tubes of fiji pink to the tank and the colors look even better then LED alone. Before I went to the LEDs I ran a hybrid of MH and t5. The LED t5 beats it hands down. Hope you get things back to the way they used to be.

[RtReef]

Sorry to hear that your LED experiment didnt work, but saying you wont believe anyone can have success using LEDs would be ignoring tons of evidence to the contrary. I for one have had great success with the AI blues. Many things in this hobby work for some but not others.

So very true. You can not single out your experience to others. I'm sure for every negative comment there is at least one or 2 positive experiences. Like I said I know a LED only tank at a LFS that grows SPS and the tank looks amazing in every aspect.

I know these lights are expensive and I'm glad someone else was able to buy your lights and hopefully have a good experience and also glad that you didn't completely lose everything and got most of your money back!

To each, their own!

[shelby_cos]

I agree with the above posts, AI for a fact do grow colourful sps. I have AI sol blues and recently added 3 T5 bulbs for an experiment a Fiji Purple, Super Blue and Blue +. I had great growth and colour before adding these but wanted to create more horizontal light because of the growth starting to shadow others.
Heres the proof:
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/My%20Aquarium%20Dec4%202011/7daa191d.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/0152027f.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/864b52e5.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/e54c6fcf.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/172f334d.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0129.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0096.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0083.jpg

[ReefTankHunter]

So , Those t5 s are doing all that. LOL

[JBarnes]

I to sold my AI Sol Blues after 7 months of turmoil on my 200 mixed reef. Like you I read all the threads I could and did everything anyone suggested but just couldn't get my tank to respond. After seeing several tanks with AI's on them over the last year one thing really popped out at me. Everyone of the tanks were SPS dominated. Very few LPS's. I'm more of a LPS guy and I think even at 30% the AI's are too high a PAR for the LPS's. I'm no expert but like you all I know is that when I went back to the old MH's everything popped back to life.

If I did it all over again I'd get the AI whites with supplemental T5's.
Jerry.

[deepseadan]

[QUOTE=JBarnes;19645478]I to sold my AI Sol Blues after 7 months of turmoil on my 200 mixed reef. Like you I read all the threads I could and did everything anyone suggested but just couldn't get my tank to respond. After seeing several tanks with AI's on them over the last year one thing really popped out at me. Everyone of the tanks were SPS dominated. Very few LPS's. I'm more of a LPS guy and I think even at 30% the AI's are too high a PAR for the LPS's. I'm no expert but like you all I know is that when I went back to the old MH's everything popped back to life.

If I did it all over again I'd get the AI whites with supplemental T5's.
Jerry.


Yeah, like I said earlier, I did read some positive and negative reviews before purchasing. I did my research and spoke with ai tech support countless times so I could do everything correct. I figured with 15 years reef experience, a par meter, and everyone's advice I could be successful where others failed. I do know that some people are supplementing their ai's with t5's, but I didn't really have room to do that, and one of the reasons I bought leds was to save energy and bulb replacement cost. I know that some are defending the ai sols, but I ask if you documented and took pics of your tank's condition weekly. I did and it was pretty sad after 4 months. That's why I switched back.

[thewire]

whoever is selling their AI..pm me lol..i will buy it of you :)

[stevedola]

i have seen a few amazing tanks using AI sols so I will not discount that they do work however for me I didnt like them. They always appear dim and when I turned them up the corals reacted adversely.

[tmgrash]

A bit of a dead horse I suppose but I set my 240gal tank up with AIs over two years ago and have been thrilled with them. In fact I just recently won totm in my local reef club. My tank has tons of sps and lps growth. I would agree with red corals not being at their greatest, but blue and purple corals seem better to me. I don't say that I like them because I have to after spending a lot of money on them, in fact I am purchasing more for a frag tank project. It's interesting that LEDs are so polarizing, some people seem to have great luck with them and others absolutely hate them.

[The Grim Reefer]

My tank was set up with LED's and there is no way I would even think of going back to T5s at this point but I am doing things differently than most.

1 No optics. LED's are mounted inside 2x1 in aluminum channel that forms a crude reflector.

2. Only driving the mixture of XRE, XPG and XPE at 700ma.

3. Mixture of whites, Cool, warm and Neutral. That and a lot of Royal Blues.

[SC Reefaholic]

It appears that a key factor here is existing vs new build. I would imagine that if corals were accustomed to a certain intensity then were subjected to another lighting system it could be difficult to re-aclimate them. It is my understanding that PAR meters might not be completely accurate when reading light in certain spectrums so we might be exposing the corals to more intense light than we think and blasting them.

Its hard to judge LEDs with the naked eye so they appear dim when in actuallity they are brighter than other sources in certain spectrums.

All just supposition, but from reading a lot of these threads It appears that the key is aclimating the corals to the new light source without a true measure to compare the two sources.

[The Grim Reefer]

Yep, the PAR meter doesn't see light in the deeper blue range and the blue LED's have a ton of light in that range. I've heard Apogee estimates a 20% under reading. I have a feeling that might be a very conservative estimate. My 120 is reading in the 120's at the bottom. I have a RBTA that wants nothing to do with the direct light even at the bottom on the tank, it hangs out at the end of the tank on the side of a rock. My LED's stop about 6 inches from the end

[Saadatski]

I could not agree more with Grim!!!!

The problem many people face with LEDs is that they add ridiculous optics (down to 45 degrees) and literally laserbeam their corals with their LEDs. To dig an even deepr hole, they add more LEDs to make up for the spotlighting. I personally do not use optics, and just set the fixture reletivly close to the tank to not have much loss.

Grim was right in the reflector, and i tried that idea, and it worked well but i just flipped the channel because i enjoy the light disturbution. I heard somewhere that Cree LEDs give offf a 100 to 120 degree light spread.

I have also had T5s and they have also doen wonders for me, and i used them on my old tank and my corals grew like it was their buisness. But there is nothing wrong with LEDs, just got to use them wisely. Most people on this Forum will tell you that you should put 80 LEDs on a 75g with narrow optics, and then turn the LEDs down to 60%...

They also tell you you need 4 AI sols for a 4 foot tank, and put also narrow optics on those...

LEDs are good if some people on this forum will start using the concept less is more... I personally will only use about 48 Crees on my tank when the fixture is done. I run all my LEDs at 750ma.

[bayoupr]

I have 4 sol blue over a 6' 180 and couldn't be happier. All my softies, LPS and now that I am moving to SPS slowly are all doing great.

[chadfarmer]

this reminds me of when i first ran t5s, i had no luck couldbnt keep sps from not bleaching-- went back to MH, than decided to get a newer light and everything grew the only difference was the bulbs and the new light so, it all worked out in the long run.

I do run AI and like them and started out at 60%

but maybe going to change but we will see but still going to run leds

[reefernutz]

I think it's personal preference. I spent a ton on LEDs and after 6 months the fixture was up for sale. I hear a few stories about great growth and color with LEDs but I never saw it. I know that there are multiple factors to great color and growth, but if all you change is the lights and your getting great color and growth.......it was probably the lights that were the problem.

I'm back to MH with T5 supplements. My corals are much happier than with the LEDs.

[rodneyri]

Has anyone noticed red corals going orange? i have a reverse superman and its gone orange now under my LEDs, I have vertex illumina.

Thinking about adding either the red LED modules or some T5 to supplement

[ari5736]

I'm finally happy with my AI's. I had to switch out to all 70 degree optics, lower the units very close to water, and add warm and neutral whites to the mix.

[kc350twin]

I'm finally happy with my AI's. I had to switch out to all 70 degree optics, lower the units very close to water, and add warm and neutral whites to the mix.

Can you share how?




Kc3

[mcarroll]

It appears that a key factor here is existing vs new build.

I think I have to agree - OP claims 6 years on T5 I think?

Having had my own lighting-related tribulations (with old MH bulbs), i will testify that old colonies do not take kindly to drastic lighting changes and can take a long time to recover when so shocked.

For example, i've got a large, three year old red monti colony. In my case, bulbs went way past prime and the colony actually began losing tissue. The issue was rectified the day tissue loss was noted, but thet colony still has not regained its former brilliant color over a year later. The colony is healthy and growing fast (and being fragged), but nothing like the brilliant orange/red that it was. Same lighting as before the incident.

Point being, big lighting changes are not to be triffled with - especialy with regard to mature colonies. (Let's not forget that stresses combine, so whatever else is ailing the corals at the moment - and whatever they've successfully adapted to - matters too.) So, at least in my view it's possible, as a more experienced reefer, that the OP could have more trouble upgrading to LED than a newb or someone setting up a tank with frags.

Good luck!

-
Matt

[iamwrasseman]

leds have such a narrow bandwith that you need such diversity in order to cover a good light area for proper coral growth . there is also an issue with so many cheap and misidentified leds as far as their spectrium as it is so very narrow . i think a led that works well is one that had poor quality controll and the "group" of bulbs simply cover a larger area in bandwith than was intended thus making it a better light . mH lights cover it all and then some and if your looking for results then you need the proper spectrium which MH and t-5s do so much better . led s are just like lighting your tank with lazers and thats a crapshoot if you ask me . dont take this wrong they have come forward leaps and bounds but theres still something missing IMO .

[dbraun15]

I currently have 6 AI's over my 6' 220g and all is going well with the SPS the past 6 months. As others have mentioned, due to the nature of the stock optics in the AI, you really have to pay attention to coral placement with a PAR meter.

There is a tremendous difference in PAR with the 4 inner 40deg optics versus the outer 70deg ones. To that point, when I place frags, I have to be conscience of that. Once they settle in, they grow well within the various ranges.

I can see how placing the AI's stock, over an established tank could cause issues.

Interestingly enough, as another posted mentioned earlier, my Ponape Birdsnest also looks washed out, but the purples look amazing.

here is the Ponape, about 5 weeks in tank, but did wash out some from it originally going into the tank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/Rudro1/CoralGrowth220g047.jpg

here is a Tricolor that has held its color well and you can see it is starting to encrust.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/Rudro1/CoralGrowth220g044.jpg

These are taken with 80/80/58 b/rb/w.

I know it is difficult to capture coral color in pics, but you get the idea.

[Mrmaguyver]

I've been running evolution LEDs (for three months) and switched to kessil a150w's for the last month. Honestly, I'll be going back to my Tek light t5 before Christmas. I like the color and shimmer that LED's give off, but I just can't get the growth I was getting in my tank before, when I was using the t5 bulbs..... I can live with changing bulbs every 8 months and the higher consumption on my light bill.... as long as I can get my frags to flourish. I mean, that's why we're all in this hobby right?

Then again I can get frustrated rather quickly... Maybe patience is key with LEDs. I just don't have any. :)

[racedout]

If AI would use all 70 degree optics instead of putting those ridiculous 40 degrees on the inside led's people would have much better success. I use no optics on my LED tank and have 72 leds over a 36"x18"x24" tank. Great SPS growth even on the sand bed. I read a post somewhere that tested multiple optics and found that 70 degree are actually getting the best PAR numbers. I personally would only use 70-90 degree optics if I was going to use them at all. My lights are about 4" off of the water also, in a canopy BTW.

[NatureNerd]

leds have such a narrow bandwith that you need such diversity in order to cover a good light area for proper coral growth .

...there is also an issue with so many cheap and misidentified leds as far as their spectrium as it is so very narrow

... mH lights cover it all and then some and if your looking for results then you need the proper spectrium which MH and t-5s do so much better...


You may need to research current LED technology and stick to LED's with good reputations. LED's may be limited in angular spread because of their optics. This is an issue I think in our tanks. It can be adjusted. Modern, high quality LED's have excellent repeatability, uniform spectra, and excellent quality control. The "white" LED's use phosphors that result in a very broad spectral coverage. Not narrow at all. See the attached image comparing natural sunlight to a modern LED fixture. Looks pretty good except for the big blue spike which we reefers ask for and seem to like. MH, which, by the way, I still think are great, have spectral issues too. My LED's have resulted in great growth, the best PE I have ever had, and good color (except for my ponape bn).

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n299/JJohn_photos/Sunlight_vs_LED_f.jpg

[iamwrasseman]

thanks for the info and i am still learning but it just seems that anyone can grow corals with MH but there are very differing results with LEDs . especially sps corals

[NatureNerd]

thanks for the info and i am still learning but it just seems that anyone can grow corals with MH but there are very differing results with LEDs . especially sps corals

We are all still learning. I have been reading about this stuff every night for the last week or so, and I am an engineer who used to design sensors for optical systems and have had reef tanks for decades. As far as easy use of MH's, I tend to agree with you there. MH and T5's have proven to be solid.

I just really want to find out what the issues are with LED's. My tank is doing very well with AI's but others are struggling. The spectrum looks okay to me, the spread and directional nature can surely cause some issues but doesn't seem like it should be a big problem.

As for switching lighting, one thing we all have to remember is established colonies may respond badly to any change in lighting. The corals and their zooxanthellae have adapted, over time, to a particular lighting, with those particular spectral and spatial properties. So, when a reefer goes back to what worked before, after struggling with LED's, he should be expected to be successful again rather quickly. This isn't a comment on the technology. It is just returning the corals in his tank to the environment they have become best suited for. It is sort of like if you are raised in a warm climate, you won't feel good in a cold climate until you fully adapt to the change, could take years. Before that, if you return to where you were raised, you will quickly feel like new again.

I am thinking that my good growth rates may be that I started with small colonies and frags when I switched from MH to LED. Perhaps patience is a key, I do not know. I do know that my tank is thriving after 9 months. So it is possible.

[rodneyri]

this is the concept of what im thinking to add a T5 tube to each side of my vertex, some simple channel with the reflector attached to it. Ill look at the T5 Power glo DIY and mount the ballast either on top of the illumina or on my light post.

this should help out a bit i think for supplmential spectrum

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo21/rodney_ri/vertex121.jpg

[NatureNerd]

I'm finally happy with my AI's. I had to switch out to all 70 degree optics, lower the units very close to water, and add warm and neutral whites to the mix.

How did you add the warm and neutrals?

[iamwrasseman]

very nice addition there !

[OneReef]

After reading many post on the LEDS, I think that the people that don't have success made a change in an existing tank. I started my new tank with AI Sols, have alot of SPS and they look fantastic. But I started with the Sols from the beginning. Light shock is probably people negative experiences. I guess a similar example would be adding GFO to a tank with high phosphates. Add too much GFO too fast, and the phosphates dropping too fast will make your coral look like crap. Another example of shock.

[jfingers8]

Aren't LED's like everything else. Nothing that first comes out is perfect. Well this is no exception for LED's with reef lighting now. People aren't patient is the problem. People want to pop LED's on there tank and want there tank to just get crazy growth is 2 months. That isn't how it works. Try to find someone that has had bad results with Radions. The first that actually got it right. That is why noone complains because Radion got it right. Get shitty LED's get shitty results just like everything else in this hobby. To me Radion is the only LED out there right now that I haven't heard one bad thing yet.

[gatorchem]

I've had very good success with LEDs, but mine is a Cree DIY with 3:1 RB:NW. So NOT directly linked to the AI's but rather LEDs in general. Before my LEDs I had 2x250 MHs (Radiums) + 2x54W T-5s (ATI blue +). With my LEDs which have been running for almost 9 months now I have had great growth and color on my SPS.

I will say that it took about 2-3 weeks for coral to adjust to the LEDs and response. Once they adjusted they have been going crazy ever since. I lot of people fry their tank when switching to LEDs because the output intensity of LEDs look lower to our human eyes versus other lights (T-5s , MHs).

I know I will not be switching back.

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o476/gatorchem/IMG_8764.jpg (http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o476/gatorchem/IMG_8764.jpg)

http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o476/gatorchem/IMG_8746.jpg (http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o476/gatorchem/IMG_8746.jpg)

[power boat jim]

Nice tank, like that purple rimmed cup coral!!

[SC Reefaholic]

Dont mean to hijac the thread.... Well, yes I do.

Gator, how much current are you running through your LEDs?

I've got 36RB/12CW/4NW over my 65. At full bore I can run 850 mA on the blue and 1250 mA on the white. Currently at 600 mA and 800 mA. I am thinking of swapping out some more CW for NW.

[NatureNerd]

Nice tank gatorchem. I too will not go back to MH's.

[gonorth16]

Hey guy's,

I have a 25g cube 18x18x18 and have 1 sol blue hanging about 12" above the water line and are having great results. I have 4 clams, sps( top of tank) and lps everywhere else and everything is doing great. I did have to move things around at first and adjust my settings to find the sweet spots, but once i did my sps are growing like weeds, hammers are looking great and the clams just love it .

[Mj75]

I added a couple of 48 inch t5 to my 2 AI sols. I noticed its making a difference on the growth of some sps specially the ones on the mid level. My AI's were once set to 70 70 80 W B RB. I have to tone in down becaused I noticed some bleaching.

[gatorchem]

Dont mean to hijac the thread.... Well, yes I do.

Gator, how much current are you running through your LEDs?

I've got 36RB/12CW/4NW over my 65. At full bore I can run 850 mA on the blue and 1250 mA on the white. Currently at 600 mA and 800 mA. I am thinking of swapping out some more CW for NW.

I'm running all my leds at 700ma with inventronic
drivers. Also running close to 3:1 rb:nw less.




Nice tank gatorchem. I too will not go back to MH's.

thanks!


Sent from my DROID2 using Tapatalk

[luvreefs23]

I just Bought a pair of radions for my 75 and have had great success with t5s in the past but figured id give it a try. I remember about 4-5 years back all the talk about how t5s wouldn't grow coral and metal halide was the only way to go. Seems to be the same deal here, all in all I'm glad i took the risk with the t5s after all the negativity swirling around on the forums 4 years ago. I think theres still people out there who aren't sold on t5s amazingly enough.

[iamwrasseman]

i love the t-5s but have found the temperature reduction to be a complete myth . i have built several canopies and found that the t-5 bulbs are indeed cooler but the also have 3 or 4 times the surface area . they wont burn wood like a MH will but in an enclosed area ,even with a fan the do produce a good amount of heat . as far as growing corals they work great and are very easy to maintain . the bulb life is a bit of a mystery as i have a spectrum analyzer and they last a couple of years with little shift but the MH have really surprised me as they really stay close to their original spectrum for much longer than i have been told . 10 hrs a day and a year and a half later they are still so very close to original that i really think its a selling point and i sell them for a living ! they really do last longer than many have said ,believe me .

[power boat jim]

i love the t-5s but have found the temperature reduction to be a complete myth . i have built several canopies and found that the t-5 bulbs are indeed cooler but the also have 3 or 4 times the surface area . they wont burn wood like a MH will but in an enclosed area ,even with a fan the do produce a good amount of heat . as far as growing corals they work great and are very easy to maintain . the bulb life is a bit of a mystery as i have a spectrum analyzer and they last a couple of years with little shift but the MH have really surprised me as they really stay close to their original spectrum for much longer than i have been told . 10 hrs a day and a year and a half later they are still so very close to original that i really think its a selling point and i sell them for a living ! they really do last longer than many have said ,believe me .

Could not agree more. I long thought MH lamps lasted alot longer then a year. Now there is some proof. As far as the heat on the T5s that is exactly right. Watt for watt T5s produce as much heat as MH, as you said, its just more spread out. This where the LEDs present such an advantage you simply eliminate the heat portion of the puzzle.

[iamwrasseman]

yupper and now im waiting for some consistent results with the leds . we just set up a new store and originally we were going to be on the cutting edge with all our coral tanks having leds and also our 12' look-down with leds . after much information gathering i found that they are hit and miss on results and that was just something that i could not invest in my future because i could literally lose thousands as a result of a wrong decision .i will try a couple out but im not investing my future in them yet .

[James77]

Watt for watt T5s produce as much heat as MH, as you said, its just more spread out. This where the LEDs present such an advantage you simply eliminate the heat portion of the puzzle.

Watt for watt the LEDs will give off just as much heat as halides and T5s. Watts are watts. You need far less watts though, and they radiate almost no heat directly to the water(halides are bad with that, though not really if they are hung high). But LEDs still produce a good amount of heat, hence the need to cool them :).

[iamwrasseman]

yessssssssssss watts are watts although some are a bit more efficient but they are all close

[The Grim Reefer]

Watt for watt the LEDs will give off just as much heat as halides and T5s. Watts are watts. You need far less watts though, and they radiate almost no heat directly to the water(halides are bad with that, though not really if they are hung high). But LEDs still produce a good amount of heat, hence the need to cool them :).

point most people fail to grasp is the created heat isn't the real issue, it's how much they heat the water. Not only do halides radiate heat further than other sources some (not all) have a fair amount of infrared in their emitted spectrum which also causes a lot of heating

[Geeray]

I agree with the above posts, AI for a fact do grow colourful sps. I have AI sol blues and recently added 3 T5 bulbs for an experiment a Fiji Purple, Super Blue and Blue +. I had great growth and colour before adding these but wanted to create more horizontal light because of the growth starting to shadow others.
Heres the proof:
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/My%20Aquarium%20Dec4%202011/7daa191d.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/0152027f.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/864b52e5.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/e54c6fcf.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/Aquarium%20dec5%202011/172f334d.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0129.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0096.jpg
http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd475/shelby_cosens/IMG_0083.jpg

Nice tank

hopefully the Tang police don't notice all those tangs in one tank... lol

[NaturalReef]

That is one BEAUTIFUL tank! Well done sir....:beer:

[Harriscli]

Nice tank

hopefully the Tang police don't notice all those tangs in one tank... lol

lol, I was going to ask about that. More about how did you introduce them? All at once or some other method.