PH droppin

[M Woodhill]

ph of my tank constantly drops by 0.01-0.02 daily.

it was 8.25 when established and now its reduced to 7.92

i change 1/5 water and siphon the debris every week

all of ca, mg and alk are stable

ca 420, mg 1470 and alk 2.85/8.0--all by salifert

i thought there was somethin wrong with my ph sensor so i recalibrated it this mornin. yet the ph is still low

first time to come across this weird problem. any help?

[reefomeez]

Since your Ca/Mg/Alk levels all seem normal then you might just need to open a window. I had the same situation and it turns out there wasn't enough fresh oxygen getting into the tank which caused the Ph to drop. I opened the nearest window for a few days and it went back to normal. This started when the weather started getting cold enough to shut the windows/doors and start using the heater. I think the air the heater pumps out is probably a bit O2 depleted as well. Good luck!

[M Woodhill]

Since your Ca/Mg/Alk levels all seem normal then you might just need to open a window. I had the same situation and it turns out there wasn't enough fresh oxygen getting into the tank which caused the Ph to drop. I opened the nearest window for a few days and it went back to normal. This started when the weather started getting cold enough to shut the windows/doors and start using the heater. I think the air the heater pumps out is probably a bit O2 depleted as well. Good luck!

am i supposed to dose some buffer while openin the window?

its fairly cold here in ottawa, makin a big challenge to open an window

[reefomeez]

I wouldn't dose any more. You may raise your alkalinity to toxic levels and never get the Ph where it needs to be IF the issue is CO2. (to answer IF, see test below).

I hear you with the cold...is there any way you can get some tubing or pipe directly to the outside so you can avoid opening a window?

And BEFORE you do anything else, read this: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

There is a suggested step by step guide to test if CO2 is what's causing your low ph. Hope this helps...

[disc1]

I agree you are probably seeing a symptom of CO2 levels. Dosing buffer will only be a temporary solution and will leave you in a worse predicament in the end when the alkalinity goes sky high and suddenly there is nothing you can do to raise the pH. High alkalinity resists raising pH just like it does lowering. Actually it resists rises in pH better than it resists lowering of pH.

Probably the best thing to do is to reassure yourself that a pH of 7.9 is perfectly acceptable and not to worry about it. Even with elevated CO2 in a closed up house, it shouldn't go much below that.

[M Woodhill]

I wouldn't dose any more. You may raise your alkalinity to toxic levels and never get the Ph where it needs to be IF the issue is CO2. (to answer IF, see test below).

I hear you with the cold...is there any way you can get some tubing or pipe directly to the outside so you can avoid opening a window?

And BEFORE you do anything else, read this: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

There is a suggested step by step guide to test if CO2 is what's causing your low ph. Hope this helps...

openin window is ok for me cuz the tank is placed where i seldom sit except when i go to watch the tank

there r two windows directly facin the tank, which i can open

yet there's def a surge in my bill for heatin:uhoh2:

[reefomeez]

I agree you are probably seeing a symptom of CO2 levels. Dosing buffer will only be a temporary solution and will leave you in a worse predicament in the end when the alkalinity goes sky high and suddenly there is nothing you can do to raise the pH. High alkalinity resists raising pH just like it does lowering. Actually it resists rises in pH better than it resists lowering of pH.

Probably the best thing to do is to reassure yourself that a pH of 7.9 is perfectly acceptable and not to worry about it. Even with elevated CO2 in a closed up house, it shouldn't go much below that.

+1 here... 7.9 will do. I was under the impression that's what it's at now and continues to drop unabated.

openin window is ok for me cuz the tank is placed where i seldom sit except when i go to watch the tank

there r two windows directly facin the tank, which i can open

yet there's def a surge in my bill for heatin:uhoh2:

Lol...I'm in Southern California so our ideas of cold might vary a bit! If I have to wear more than a t-shirt, it's "cold".

Don't think you have to open both for all day. Just open one or both for a few hours a day and test, test, test. If after the third day you're not seeing any improvement/stabilization then it might be time to start looking at other sources of the ph drop. Definitely read the linked article. Also make sure you're testing at the same time every day and while your lights are on. The darkness and time of day are factors in differing test results.

[M Woodhill]

+1 here... 7.9 will do. I was under the impression that's what it's at now and continues to drop unabated.



Lol...I'm in Southern California so our ideas of cold might vary a bit! If I have to wear more than a t-shirt, it's "cold".

Don't think you have to open both for all day. Just open one or both for a few hours a day and test, test, test. If after the third day you're not seeing any improvement/stabilization then it might be time to start looking at other sources of the ph drop. Definitely read the linked article. Also make sure you're testing at the same time every day and while your lights are on. The darkness and time of day are factors in differing test results.

wow, cold is defined to be bone chilly here in ottawa

last night it was minus 6, which i'd since born experienced once. had thought NYC was one of the coldest cities in the world but now ive found the coldest

i got a sensor connected to a controler so i can monitor ph 24 hours a day

the pattern of droppin goes in a way like this

day 8.25 downwards to 8.23 then morning there's a slight increse to 8.24 then downwards to 8.22 and on and on to now 7.92

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

pH in seawater is determined only by the CO2 level in the water (which is often driven by the CO2 level in the air) and by the carbonate alkalinity. If alk is OK, all you can do is adjust CO2, either by bringing in more fresh air to the tank (maybe through a pipe from a skimmer to outside) or by using a method of reducing CO2 (like a CO2 scrubber or limewater additions).

The slow drift you are seeing may also be drift in the calibration of the pH meter, as it gets off of the original calibration.

So try recalibrating before doing anything else.

Also, a low of 7.9 is not a significant concern. :)

[Rwpdunne]

I've had issues with low ph over C02 and the way i sorted it out was an airstone airpump and some airline i placed the airpump at the window and ran the airline over to the sump fitted it too the airstone a and placed it in the first chamber and my ph is 8.3daytime and 8 at night time i will leave it like this till the summer time

[M Woodhill]

pH in seawater is determined only by the CO2 level in the water (which is often driven by the CO2 level in the air) and by the carbonate alkalinity. If alk is OK, all you can do is adjust CO2, either by bringing in more fresh air to the tank (maybe through a pipe from a skimmer to outside) or by using a method of reducing CO2 (like a CO2 scrubber or limewater additions).

The slow drift you are seeing may also be drift in the calibration of the pH meter, as it gets off of the original calibration.

So try recalibrating before doing anything else.

Also, a low of 7.9 is not a significant concern. :)

i recalibrated it this mornin but the readin stayed the same

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok, I personally would consider limewater for pH 7.9 or less. :)

That said, unless the pH drops below 7.8, it is not likely a big deal.

[M Woodhill]

Ok, I personally would consider limewater for pH 7.9 or less. :)

That said, unless the pH drops below 7.8, it is not likely a big deal.

it works openin a window

its raised from 7.92 to 8.02

but my room is now chilly. i'll get an airstone tomorrow from an lfs to suck in sump fresh outdoor air

[reefomeez]

it works openin a window

its raised from 7.92 to 8.02

but my room is now chilly. i'll get an airstone tomorrow from an lfs to suck in sump fresh outdoor air

That's great! Glad you got it figured out.

[tmz]

I'm, in Buffalo, so, opening a window is not a good deal for me and it's warmer here than Ottowa,I imagine. I don't want to go ice fishing in my reef tank. Limewater works as does a CO2 scrubber to reduce in tank CO2 for my set up. Running an outside air line to the skimmer can work . When I tried it ,the tubing I used was too narrow and a restriction in air flow to the skimmer resulted.

[M Woodhill]

I'm, in Buffalo, so, opening a window is not a good deal for me and it's warmer here than Ottowa,I imagine. I don't want to go ice fishing in my reef tank. Limewater works as does a CO2 scrubber to reduce in tank CO2 for my set up. Running an outside air line to the skimmer can work . When I tried it ,the tubing I used was too narrow and a restriction in air flow to the skimmer resulted.

:D

sadly my boss kicked my *** outa NYC

but happily he gotta pay my heatin bill

so i opened a window and turned on the heatin to most efficiency

im sorry it sounds a little wasty of energy though

the tank temp just ranges from 80.92 to 81.96, kinda acceptable

the ph now raises up to 8.11, openin a window seems a very good and quick way

[David Grigor]

i'll get an airstone tomorrow from an lfs to suck in sump fresh outdoor air

So you just shifted one problem to another.

Not as cold as Ottowa here in MN but cold enough to know, this will have an impact on your tank temp and push your heaters to run 24/7 if they can even keep up. For me, in the winter, my tank heaters use more electricity than all other equipment combined without attempted to bring in cold fresh air. The only real way to do this is to have a fresh air exchanger that has heat recovery and sounds like you don't have that.


If you going to do anything at all ( since it's not really a problem ), look into dosing kalkwasser via a dosing pump during night cycle to help with the low pH vs. trying to bring in fresh air during wintertime. It's just not that feasible in the colder climates.

[M Woodhill]

So you just shifted one problem to another.

Not as cold as Ottowa here in MN but cold enough to know, this will have an impact on your tank temp and push your heaters to run 24/7 if they can even keep up. For me, in the winter, my tank heaters use more electricity than all other equipment combined without attempted to bring in cold fresh air. The only real way to do this is to have a fresh air exchanger that has heat recovery and sounds like you don't have that.


If you going to do anything at all ( since it's not really a problem ), look into dosing kalkwasser via a dosing pump during night cycle to help with the low pH vs. trying to bring in fresh air during wintertime. It's just not that feasible in the colder climates.

with a window opened, the room temp stays around 78

not only ph but i am enjoyin fresh air now

[bertoni]

That's interesting. I didn't know an outdoor air line could affect the temperature that much. You could try preheating the air in some fashion, I guess. Maybe a warm water bath around the air line? Unfortunately, air is not a good conductor.

[Sport507]

That's interesting. I didn't know an outdoor air line could affect the temperature that much. You could try preheating the air in some fashion, I guess. Maybe a warm water bath around the air line? Unfortunately, air is not a good conductor.

If you get the water bath hot enough it will work. Just make sure you use CPVC and not PVC.:D

with a window opened, the room temp stays around 78

not only ph but i am enjoyin fresh air now

Wow, looks like the price of keeping pin point PH in cold climates just sky rocketed.

[M Woodhill]

Wow, looks like the price of keeping pin point PH in cold climates just sky rocketed.

i guess when my boss receives the heatin bill next april, he probably passes away

:smokin: