Advice needed for adding LED supplementation to MH

[Chatouille]

I’m looking for advice/opinions on swapping out the T5’s on my current setup for RB LEDs. I’m current using 2 39w T5 Blue +’s to supplement my MH lighting. (250w phoenix DE in a LumenMax 3, PFO hqi M80 ballast) I’m interested in the LEDs for dusk/dawn effect, and the ability to dial in the level of actinic supplementation. My thought was to use a row of 6 LEDs with 80 degree optics, spaced 4”apart on the front and back side of my MH pendant. (tank is 36”x24”x 20”, with pendant 10”from water)

I plan to build the typhoon Arduino controller for the LED’s.

Would 12 LEDs provide enough coverage for the tank, or would I need to add a couple more LEDs on each side of the MH pendant? Also, do you believe this will give me more “pop” in colors than the ATI blue + do?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[redfishsc]

Two rows of 6 would work just fine. Plan on running them at 500-1000mA.


I ran 8 Cree XRE with a single 250 Phoenix also-- and the 8 Crees nearly overwhelmed the Phoenix honestly. However this was over a 25g tank, so you may need the additional ones (the 12 total) to get good coverage.

BTW I would simply max out whatever driver you get, really. If you buy the Cree XTE blues, you can run 16 of them on a single Meanwell. This would put you in good shape later if you just wanted to add another string of cool whites, and just toss the halide altogether (you will have very similar PAR and coverage from two strings of 16!).

BTW for your viewing pleasure, here is what you can do with a 250 Phoenix and 8 Cree XRE at 1,000mA. Pardon the crappy video quality in the thread, it was an old camera.

By the way, this was no optics. The XRE has a primary 90 degree optic so 80's weren't needed. The XTE and XPE have a 120 degree angle and while not really needed for good actinic effect, you would want them if you want to beef your PAR numbers (which it will, the 8 XRE in this video threw and additional 50 micromols on the sandbed).


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1792420

[jwoyshnar]

My word of advice is don't use all royal blues, it just doesn't look real. Mix a white or two in.

[redfishsc]

My word of advice is don't use all royal blues, it just doesn't look real. Mix a white or two in.

He's using them with a Phoenix 14K.


Now he could use a 50/50 mix of royal blues and 420 violets.

[Chatouille]

Thanks for the replies....

redfishsc I couldn't view the video, said media not found, but the pic's did help. You mention in your thread that you ran T5's previously... how do the royal blues compare to the blue +'s? I'm hoping for a bit more pop in the colors.

I found the same thing as you with the pheonix bulb, it's not as blue as expected. Maybe because I am running it on a M80 ballast. (It does have nice coloration, with just a hint of blue.) I find that the blue+'s are overpowered by the halide and really don't add a lot. I'm still left wanting a bit more.

The 420 purples are very interesting.... There's just not a lot of info on RC about them. From what I have read, they are overpowered by other lighting, and you need a bunch to compensate for it. I'm gonna dig around and see if I can find out more on these. If anyone has any good links on them... please post 'em up, or PM them if the links are from places that aren't allowed on RC.

jwoyshnar-
I actually did think about adding a couple white, but since the only time that the RB's will be on by themselves is during the dusk/dawn effect. So I thought that it would be better not to include the white so that I could dial in the amount of blue I wanted to add to the halide.


Now if I can just lay hands on a typhoon PCB to get the project started..... :hmm3:

[jwoyshnar]

I figured you would be using them for the dawn/dusk effect and that is why I would add some white in. When the RB LEDs are on alone corals just don't look real. I absolutely hated the effect it had on coloration. If you know someone that has just RB LEDs see how it looks before you do it. It just doesn't look natural.

[jwoyshnar]

And as for the 420's they put out hardly any lumens. I believe it's around 10-20 lumens as compared to the whites which are around 200. I have yet to see any 3 watt LEDs in the 420 range that are worth while.

[Chatouille]

I've only seen pic's of tanks with only the RB's on.... and I do agree that it looks off. I guess I could do it if I add another driver so I could control the white lvl also.

That's pretty well what I've read about the purples too.

Has anyone that has gone from T5's to LEDs compare the blue+ to the RB in how it fluoresce's the corals? Just trying to get a little more pop without making it look like tidy bowl blue.

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks for the replies....

redfishsc I couldn't view the video, said media not found, but the pic's did help.

I've only seen pic's of tanks with only the RB's on.... and I do agree that it looks off..


Photos (and video) are 100% useless for trying to discern the true color rendering of any lighting. There are just too many variables in play. You need to see the lights in person to see how they will look... period.

[Chatouille]

Understood.... and I realize that opinions vary greatly as well. I wish I did have the chance to check it out in person, but that just isn't a reality for me. So I'm trying to use whatever resources I can to help me in the right direction.

[110galreef]

here is what I am planning!
I too thought about the TV's, but opted to not waste my time as I would need a lot to have them do anything. Plus the MH's should even out the spectrum!
I am going to try the new XT-E RB's!! Mine will be just under 4" apart and based on reviews will work fine for acctinic spacing! I will probably use 70* carclo optics on them as well. Probably more RB's than needed, but easily can be dimmed!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd71/steveh1234/light1.jpg


redfish love it! and yeah I can't view your vid....is it gone??

[Chatouille]

Looks nice!

It looks like you will have your LEDs start ~4" from edge of tank... that was one thing I wasn't sure of, in how close to the edge to go.

That's the one thing I really like about the idea of using LEDs for actinic supplementation.... you have total control over how much you get. Now if you want to try out a XM 10k bulb and HATE the color, but love the growth, you can tune it easier to get what you want aesthetically .

I'm not ready to give up my MH yet, and think this is a great option for me to try.

[110galreef]

My led's are actually about 10" from the tank edge and about 4" from the eurobrace edge. This will help minimize light on acrylic. I may even move in an inch or so.

[110galreef]

I actually benefit from the heat of MH's (basement tank) but really like the long run costs and controllabilty of the LEDs to fine tune my color for acctinic supp

[Chatouille]

Ok... from the layout it looked like was ~10" from front/back and 4" from ends. I was thinking on going ~6" from ends, spaced 4" after that with mine.

I definately don't have heat issues with my MH either, atleast this time of the year...lol (It's a balmy -15c outside right now) I might make the jump later down the road to full LED, but for now, I plan on sticking with MH.

[110galreef]

Yeah your right. About 5" from side of tank and 10" from front and back. I misread your reply. Determine how far from ends depending how much spread u get from your MHs and if you have low light needs on the edges.

[Chatouille]

Yeah... I'm guessing that I should have enough spread from the RB's to cover the ends.

[yeldarbj]

I've only seen pic's of tanks with only the RB's on.... and I do agree that it looks off. I guess I could do it if I add another driver so I could control the white lvl also.

That's pretty well what I've read about the purples too.

Has anyone that has gone from T5's to LEDs compare the blue+ to the RB in how it fluoresce's the corals? Just trying to get a little more pop without making it look like tidy bowl blue.

I've gone from T5's to LEDs. The RB's are like a blue+ bulb on steroids. You definitely get more pop but as others mention, it's not so good by itself. I think mixing in a few standard blues helps, about 2:1 or even 3:1 RB to Cool Blue, especially since you are supplementing. I recently made a change in my LEDs and included some 420nm violets, and I think they are definitely worth it, especially when run on a string by themselves. When run alone, they look much more like a true actinic bulb. Yes, the effect is washed out when the RB's are on, much like a blue+ bulb overpowers an actinic bulb.