"YOUR" opinion's needed

[meshwheel]

Happy New Year!
I have a question for you guys. Any and all comments are welcome! I currently have one metal halide(250 watt) over my 34 gallon sps nano tank which is 24 inches long.
My new 65 gallon tank is 36Lx18Dx24H and I will be at some point adding all the contents(my SPS corals and fish) to the new tank.
The new tank has a 1/2 acrylic top with nice cutouts on each side and a overflow in the rear at dead center.
For this tank, I wanted to try and keep the top covers on to keep moisture out of my family room and in the tank.
I have thought about LED, Another metal halide or T5 lighting for this tank.
So the questions are:
1. Since the tank is 24 deep and I want to try and keep the covers on....I am thinking of adding another 250 watt metal halide! What do you guys think? That would be 500 watts total with Lumenbrite reflectors. With the tank top covers on I would think this would be ample lighting

2. Option 2: A T5 lighting system with 6 or 8 bulbs. I am thinking 6 may not be enough to get through the top 1/2 inch acrylic covers and all. I am not too experienced with the newer T5's. Would they be bright enough?

3. LED's, and it would have to be 2 units. AI's I am sure would do it. With the intensity adjustability not sure I would want to try anything else.

I am a metal halide guy really. But I wanted to get everyone's opinions and thoughts on this. My corals are of course metal halide adapted and quite happy at the moment.
So what do you guys think?
Thanks

[Toddrtrex]

Do you plan on running a chiller, or do you have a basement sump? I would be really concerned about all the heat that will be trapped with the tank covered (( and air exchange too, that could be a real issue )), if you used MH.

[meshwheel]

Todd,
Thanks for the input! Yes, I do have a chiller. So heat should not be a issue. Also, the Lumenbrights can be mounted pretty high above the tank and are sealed.
They do throw off some heat, but not bad at that height. Figured I could mount them 12 inches above the water without problems.
I could remove the tops I suppose. Just wanted them on and all with my Tunze Wave box.

[SC Reefaholic]

If you are a MH guy and happy with them then stick with them. I have made the switch to LEDs and love them but MHs are proven and if you like them then thats all that matters.

I have never liked having a covered tank. Constant cleaning of the tops just annoyed me. I like the screen top that I have now.

I had 2x175 watt MH Iwasaki 15ks and 2x95 watt VHO actinics over my 65 and had great siccess with all corals (LPS/SPS) so 2x250 should be more than sufficient even with the tops as long as you keep them clean.

[Gbear]

HNY to you too.

I'm a MH and T5 user. Not sold on the long term results of most LED lighting just yet.

3 foot tanks do create some lighting issues. For me I have always gone the T5 route with them. I couldn't justify the use of the two MH bulbs for heat and power reasons.
I do think T5's ideal for 18" deep tanks, 24" works for me but I see less growth.
For that reason on my deeper tanks I mix the two types of lighting.
I run the MH for only 4 or 5 hours a day.
I don't have anything as narrow but deep as the 65 you are planning.


Are you using a single Lumentrite now? If so how close to the water are you with it?
I'd expect with two of them even side by side you would have light spilling out past the edges all the way around unless you had them fairly low.
Which will only make the heat issue a larger one.

LED might be the best option here.
Wish I could help with that.

Personally I would stuff the max number of T5's possible over the tank.

Best of Luck
Stu

[Froggy]

My main concern with having the acrylic top on would be two things.

1. Gas exchange. A living reef needs surface gas exchange to breath. There could be PH problems with this. This could be aided by a large open sump. The larger the footprint the better.

2. An acrylic top sitting at the top of the tank will nearly immediately develop condensation. This will reduce light entering the tank.

...oh and Happy New Year to you:celeb1:

Joe

[meshwheel]

Hi guys,
Hey Thanks for all the great info! You all brought up some very interesting points indeed!
SC Reefaholic: Great points! Yes I know the metal halides work and believe the LED's do too! It's just acclimating my corals to LED's from the halides. I own a PAR meter so I am sure I could do it.

Stu: Yes I am using one Lumenbright 14K 250 watter right now. The bulb is 18 inches above my water surface. I get about 350-380 PAR levels 6 inches below the surface!
You know, I am thinking now maybe my one lumenbright with some Supplemental T5's?? May the lumenbright sitting on top of a canopy(hole cut in it) with the T5's inside the canopy in front and rear of the metal halide???????
I thought maybe 2 side by side lumenbright's sitting on top of a canopy???? This way no light lose at all. Then I could open the canopy from the front to get inside. Holes on top of the canopy that the lumenbrights would sit over. Not sure how it would look. Should not look too bad, as I am getting a 45 inch tall stand.

Joe: Excellent points indeed! I have a built in center overflow, and a open sump. I will be running a Bubble MAgus NAC6A so gas exchange I would hope would be fine.
Yes, I know the covers would get condensation on them almost instantly. I know many times the water droplets magnify the light too. So it would be experimental with my possibly having to remove them and keep them off!
Let me post a picture of the top of my new tank!

[meshwheel]

Here's a few pics. The tank is 1/2 inch acrylic and very heavy duty. I am going to install a Tunze nano wave box. With my two sump returns I am hoping to have plenty of flow!
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x122/65bug_01/IMG_3796-1.jpg

[meshwheel]

Let me get some better shots!
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x122/65bug_01/IMG_3792-1.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x122/65bug_01/IMG_3793-1.jpg

It is a awesome built tank. And very heavy duty! Should look really nice when completed!

[Gbear]

meshwheel, now the tank looks like a tank! ;) Very nice.

One thought however. If you go with only the one MH it will be hung directly over center right? You will be putting more light into your overflow that way and also cleaning the tank directly under the light will be a PITA. If you stick with MH you may want to go with 2 just so you can clean the removalble tops nice and easy like in the sink.

And if I may ask what type of LED fixture would you consider? I'm trying to get up to speed on these a bit as I am trying to decide how to light a frag tank in the near future. I'm going MH or LED as I won't be able to hide the T5's for this one.
I'd appreciate your opinion too.

Best of luck with your build.
Stu

[meshwheel]

Thanks Stu!
Great points you got there! Yes, it would be hung dead center. However, I would guesstimate 12 inches above the tank top. I can always remove the tops, just wanted to keep the moisture out of the air as much as possible. It's going in the family room and I know from past experieinces that salty air seems to find its was into electronics and put a nice light coat of rust on them.
I think 2 like you suggested would probably be the way to go. The newer metal halide reflectors are so darn efficient now, you can hang them really high above the tank and still get excellent light penetration down to the bottom of the tank.
And with 2 I could me then likely get 2 years or close to it out of the bulbs!
I am still on the fence with LED's. I know they work, as it's light energy. We are not creating a new form of light, just getting it out there with diodes.
I was at Reef A Palooza and had a change to really check them out. The AI's are nice, and use magnified lenses to get really intense beams. However, the use a 6500K white led I think it was. I was really hoping for a 10K in their new phoenix. Its now named something different by the way. They certianly put out PLENTY of power and are made here in the USA.
The Acan LED's are made in China. They produce ample PAR for sure, and use their own in house 10K white LED. I thought the coloration was a little better! to be honest. Price is competitive with the AI's.
The Radion's where nice as well. Great colors! Just not quite the PAR of the other 2. Possibly the best color out there so far.
They all work, it's just acclimating already grown corals under another light source. Some seem to have had MAJOR problems in this area. Others seem to figure it out quickly.
I don't know, in many respects the LED's remind me of the Green Thing. Or, going solar. Yet to be fully proven, and it's up in the air whether they will really pay for themselves. As the LED revolution progresses, I bet metal halides and T5's drop further in price.
I run a IceCap 250 watt metal halide ballast and love it! My 14K Hamilton bulb is excellent! I like it better then the 20K Radiums I ran for years. Same PAR numbers too.
I see your from Canada Stu! I am a BIG hockey fan too!!!! GO KINGS GO..............lol

[DrBegalke]

I'd go with the two MH

[meshwheel]

DrBegalke,
Yea, you still cannot beat that dark rich color you get out of SPS corals with metal halides. At least that's what i have seen visually after viewing many different tanks.
I prefer the darker richer colors! The Radion seems to be the closest to metal halide colors I have seen as of yet.
I still have time! Please keep the suggestions coming. I love to do the brainstorming with everyone!
Thanks!

[socalmonty]

I just received my 49" Pacific Sun Metis Hyperion LED fixture over the weekend. I will be hanging it tomorrow night. It was pricey (8 channels of LEDs including 2 UVs) but the US distributor does group buys and I got it for just a little more than the price of three Radions which was the other product I was considering. I'm not sure what your price limit is but once I get it hung and dialed in, I will give you my thoughts on it. It's available in 36", 49" and 60" lengths, I think.

[meshwheel]

socalmonty,
Hey that would be great! Do they have a website? I am open to all suggestions. I know if I go another 250 watt halide it would cost me about another 300.00.
I will google "pacific Sun" and check em out. Don't they have a thread on here somewhere? The name sounds familiar. I did not see them at Reef a Palooza. They either where not there or I missed them...........

[Gbear]

I run a IceCap 250 watt metal halide ballast and love it! My 14K Hamilton bulb is excellent! I like it better then the 20K Radiums I ran for years. Same PAR numbers too.
I see your from Canada Stu! I am a BIG hockey fan too!!!! GO KINGS GO..............lol

Funny, the Hamilton 14K is also my bulb of choice also. It's bright, without a hint of yellow to my eyes. The coral seem to dig it too.

Well, ya hockey is a bit of a big deal north of the border. But I don't think I have ever quite forgiven Bruce McNall and the Kings for the whole Gretzky thing. To be quite honest I have been a Wings fan since that day. Not such a bad deal actually. :spin3:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the LED's.
Stu

[mordibv]

U did no mention what type of LB ur using . I used a mini wide on a 30 x 30 cube and it did shade some . I am pretty sure I was 16 inches from bulb to water surface
Like others suggested the lids are nice but will reduce the oxygen exchange dramatically with mad condensation on the lids and the next thing you know there is salt creep blocking the light .
My 100 Acrylic had lids which I did not use .It had t5's and one MH de for shimmer . The center and euro bracing got on my nerves from having to wipe them clean all the time .
Pretty sweet tank but I am sure cleaning the lids or bracing will wear you down in the end .
Like others have stated if you like MH that much then 2 would give the good coverage but they may spill over .
If your serious about the leds just make sure they have 80 or 60 degree optics to cover for the depth and decrease the light spill ..

[meshwheel]

Stu,
Yea, we all really liked McNall till we found out he was a big fraud. I still wonder how we got Gretz to come over. But hey, it was always a real treat to watch! He made it look easy. Detroit ALWAYS seems to have a good team!
That Hamilton 14K bulb is excellent Stu! You are right! No yellow at all, yet it still has just the right touch of blue to it. I love the 14K Hamilton! It's brought out yellows and reds that my Radium would just wash out. And it's cheap too!
Thanks!

[meshwheel]

mordibv,
I use a Mini Lumenbright hanginf pendant. I think is 17x17. It's a awesome fixture! I love it.
My cut outs on the tank are excellent. It won't bother me at all wiping the top down. I have had both glass and acrylic tanks over the years. I prefer acrylic hands down.
If I put a wood canopy over the top, maybe I can leave the covers off. Having the acrylic covers get wet is not that big of a deal to me.
I am going to take some PAR readings above and below the covers to see whats lost. Heck, I may even splash some saltwater on them and take some readings just to give me a idea of what effect or changes it has.
Two Lumenbrights would give me some serious PAR. I could run them on top of a tall wood canopy. Then inside add some T5's or LED's!!!!!
That way I would only need to run the Lumenbights for 6 hours a day or so! That would really be nice.
Lots to figure out here! Keep the suggestions coming please! Lots of great discussion here!

[meshwheel]

Here's a couple of better "TOP" shots of the tank so you can see the cut out size in relation to the tops!
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x122/65bug_01/IMG_3836.jpg

Here's another with the tops taken off!
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x122/65bug_01/IMG_3837.jpg

[socalmonty]

socalmonty,
Hey that would be great! Do they have a website? I am open to all suggestions. I know if I go another 250 watt halide it would cost me about another 300.00.
I will google "pacific Sun" and check em out. Don't they have a thread on here somewhere? The name sounds familiar. I did not see them at Reef a Palooza. They either where not there or I missed them...........

meshwheel, try googling Imagine an Ocean, the US distributor. Yorgos at IAO has a good section on the website on the Pacific Sun fixtures. They aren't cheap but here in Southern California where So Cal Edison charges us through the nose for electricity (I'm Tier 5 which means $.30 per kWh), you can sort of justify spending the money. Of course, in this hobby we are always looking for some rationalization for buying the toys we really just want to have regardless. :)

[meshwheel]

socalmonty,
I hear ya! I did not get in this hobby to "Save Money" lol. Those led's look really nice! I cannot wait to hear how you like yours.
I would love to run LED's as it would be less then half the wattage. I am still thinking about whats the best route to take!

[socalmonty]

meshwheel, I hung my new lamp last night and I posted my first impressions on another thread (Pacific Sun Metis Hyperion - 8 Channel LED). My first impressions were better than good. I'm very excited about it and look forward to dialing it in for my viewing preferences. It was too late to take any pics but I plan to do that tonight. I will be posting them on that thread. The real test will be how my corals like the light. That will take a while to determine.