Need Help Plumbing 180

[Mr. Fish]

Even though I've been in the hobby for almost 7 years I have never had a tank with a sump or had to plumb an aquarium, so I basically need plumbing 101. Any tips you have on plumbing will help.

I bought my 180 gallon used, so it has two holes in the back already. On the right side there is a 2.5" wide hole and on the left there is a 1.5" hole. I'd like to either have a center overflow and the returns on the sides or an overflow box on either side of the tank and the return in the center. I don't know if I can use the holes already drilled or if I should block them and drill my own.

The tank also came with a 27 gallon sump 22"L, 14"W, 18"H that has three holes drilled in it. One large hole on the left side of the front on the top and two small holes on the right side, one is nearly touching the bottom of the sump and the other is in the middle. There is also a bent piece of acrylic by the large hole at the top that I am not sure what it's for.

I'd also like to incorporate a small 10 gallon fuge and have that plumbed into the sump, how can I do that?

So if you could tell me how you guys would plumb this set up that would really help me! I also need to know how to keep the sump from overflowing when the pump is off.

Picture of the sump:
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/hawkfish78/photobucket-2264-1325712917427.jpg

Right side of sump:
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/hawkfish78/photobucket-3416-1325712987266.jpg

Large hole:
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/hawkfish78/photobucket-3414-1325713028134.jpg

Small hole:
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/hawkfish78/photobucket-4054-1325713043543.jpg

[windowlicker916]

Not an expert but that's one huge hole! Big enough to be a single overflow. If you had a second overflow going you would probably have a lot of gurgling unless you had a huge amount of return water...but then the tank would be really turbulent.

Working with what you have I would recommend using the single hole as your overflow using a 90 degree pvc pipe poking up to the surface with one of the cone screen attachments. Use a ball valve on the back side so you can create back pressue to stop the gurgling and then use the smaller hole for the return. If tou really feel like it you can place a second return with a new hole.

I highly recommend you read up up how to make a flood free system. Power goes out and you will have a wet house. Essentially need a food design to break the siphon and prevent back flow.

[needmore-reef]

my 2 cents.
make both holes large enough for a 1.5 bulk head. use a hole saw from Home depot or lowes. looks like who ever drilled those used a dremel tool. two drains will ensure that the tank will not overflow should one strainer become clogged.

I would then come over the top of the tank with your returns. (no need for bulkheads) save some money) size will depend on your return pump.

that sump is an odd shape and design but should work. the hole on the left upper corner is the drain. the hole near the bottom right will connect to your return pump.

the hole on the side / middle may have been used for an auto top off, but who knows.
you can use it for you fuge drain.

[Mr. Fish]

Do you have any links that talk about making a flood free system?

One of the holes is 1.5 inches and the other is 2.5. If I was to reduce the large hole with a bulkhead the smaller hole will be higher. Is that ok if I used both for drains if one is higher than the other?

Also what size pump do you recommend? I was thinking 1300 gph and then plus two 2200 gph powerheads on either side.

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[DanK13]

can you post a pic of the entire display tank so i can advise you a bit better.

[Mr. Fish]

can you post a pic of the entire display tank so i can advise you a bit better.

Sure:

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/hawkfish78/photobucket-3620-1325884032482.jpg

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[DanK13]

So what it looks like to me that the person before you had a fish only tank and just used a strainer on the right for the overflow.

The large hole in the sump on the left of the acrylic partition was the other end of the overflow. That bent piece of acrylic helps to prevent cavitation. As the return water hits the sump you get bubbles and that slows them down and allows them to pop before they get a chance to get sucked into the main pump and give your fish the bends.

You could use the existing holes if you install a Coast to Coast style overflow, especially if you are worried about the aesthetic look. Im partial to corner boxes so if it were me I would cement them shut with acrylic and drill where I want.

With respect to the refugium you can "T" off of the return line to the display for the fuge. Add a ball valve or gate valve so you can regulate the flow and then just have it gravity feed back to the sump.

[Mr. Fish]

How do I keep the sump from over flowing?

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[DanK13]

Sorry for the slow response but i dont get updates when someone posts on threads :( There are a couple of ways to approach it. But I could use the dimensions of the exhibit tank to calculate it.

You can build the overflow box high enough so that the slots only drop the top half inch or inch of water (depending on tank dimensions). Just remember or be aware of where the return is set at in the water. It will back siphon to that point.

To counter the back siphon put a check valve in the return line. It is a good idea to use a check valve that is like a threaded coupling that way you can replace it when it fails. I have to periodically replace them on my systems due to growth that forms on them over time.

The other thing you could do is get a new poly sump that is half the volume of the exhibit. That way you don't have to worry about any floods, even if it back siphons. Then you could use the current sump for a sweet fuge. I always run sumps half the size of the exhibit. That's just how I build them for clients. If your limited for space and are going to put it under the exhibit then go for the first method.

FWIW the sump you have is 24 gallons. (LxWxH) / 231 = gallons

[DanK13]

Sorry for the slow response but i dont get updates when someone posts on threads :( There are a couple of ways to approach it. But I could use the dimensions of the exhibit tank to calculate it.

You can build the overflow box high enough so that the slots only drop the top half inch or inch of water (depending on tank dimensions). Just remember or be aware of where the return is set at in the water. It will back siphon to that point.

To counter the back siphon put a check valve in the return line. It is a good idea to use a check valve that is like a threaded coupling that way you can replace it when it fails. I have to periodically replace them on my systems due to growth that forms on them over time.

The other thing you could do is get a new poly sump that is half the volume of the exhibit. That way you don't have to worry about any floods, even if it back siphons. Then you could use the current sump for a sweet fuge. I always run sumps half the size of the exhibit. That's just how I build them for clients. If your limited for space and are going to put it under the exhibit then go for the first method.

FWIW the sump you have is 24 gallons.
(LxWxH) / 231 = gallons
Where L,W,H is inches and 231 is a constant.

[Jgisler]

I am currently having the same plumbing issue for a sump on my 55! :headwally:

I am not new to the hobby, yet I can't grasp the concept of plumbing this thing. My sump is made out of a 20 gallon aquarium that is sectioned off, the guy at the LFS sent me to lowes to buy a ton of valves, pvc, etc. I just have no idea what i am doing haha. :headwalls:

[Mr. Fish]

I am currently having the same plumbing issue for a sump on my 55! :headwally:

I am not new to the hobby, yet I can't grasp the concept of plumbing this thing. My sump is made out of a 20 gallon aquarium that is sectioned off, the guy at the LFS sent me to lowes to buy a ton of valves, pvc, etc. I just have no idea what i am doing haha. :headwalls:

Well if you figure it out let me know :D

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[Mr. Fish]

Sorry for the slow response but i dont get updates when someone posts on threads :( There are a couple of ways to approach it. But I could use the dimensions of the exhibit tank to calculate it.

You can build the overflow box high enough so that the slots only drop the top half inch or inch of water (depending on tank dimensions). Just remember or be aware of where the return is set at in the water. It will back siphon to that point.

To counter the back siphon put a check valve in the return line. It is a good idea to use a check valve that is like a threaded coupling that way you can replace it when it fails. I have to periodically replace them on my systems due to growth that forms on them over time.

The other thing you could do is get a new poly sump that is half the volume of the exhibit. That way you don't have to worry about any floods, even if it back siphons. Then you could use the current sump for a sweet fuge. I always run sumps half the size of the exhibit. That's just how I build them for clients. If your limited for space and are going to put it under the exhibit then go for the first method.

FWIW the sump you have is 24 gallons.
(LxWxH) / 231 = gallons
Where L,W,H is inches and 231 is a constant.

The dimensions of my tank are 72",24",24". Also how do you make sure that the drains arent slowly adding a little more to the sump than the pump is putting back into the tank, or do you just watch it and make sure that doesn't happen.

Thanks for all the help Dan I really appreciate it!

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[kwl1763]

So step back and breathe. Start reading a lot on here and you'll pick it up in no time.

So first off the drains can't be adding more to the tank then the pump is pumping. As it's currently setup the drains can only drain to the bottom of that hole. You have several options. Probably your best option (though not ideal) would be to use one of those holes for the overflow and one for the drain. I would certainly talk with some fellow reefers who know what they are doing and build an overflow box for the one you're using as a drain.

Ideally you would make them both drains. Build overflow boxes for both and then put your return back over the top.

You could leave as is and use both for drains but that will get really noisy. you could build an up pipe out of that hole with a strainer on top of each mounted at your desired water level. Same noise issue.

After you get the drain situation worked out the rest is a piece of cake honestly. Think about gravity and it will tell you where the water will go. Try to mount things so their natural tendency is to drain where you want them. So have the refugium output above your other sump level , pump some water in there from a tee in the return and let it drain back into your sump via some plumbing.

Just scratch some stuff out on paper. Think about gravity and where you need to tee off your return. Never throttle back both drains (unless there is an unthrottled backup). Post your chicken scratch here.

[DanK13]

Mr Fish. I'll draw a picture up and email a link so you can get an idea.

[Jgisler]

If anyone has a chance to give a little advice... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19727300#post19727300

:)

[DanK13]

Ok so let me state that this is the first time I've done a CAD drawing and isn't to scale.
I always hand over a hand drawing to the architects and they do it for me :)
This is a really rough picture to give you a very basic idea of how to approach this. This is just one way but in my opinion its the most direct and easiest.

Here is a simple overflow design that can be welded into the main display.
http://i.imgur.com/WOKrg.jpg

Here is the way to avoid the back siphon and flooding your tank.
http://i.imgur.com/Q9wN9.jpg

When building your overflow, 1" is equal to 7.5 gallons according to your dimensions. So if your overflows are 1" you can run your sump 2/3 full give or take the height of the overflow hole that is drilled in the back of your tank.

[DanK13]

If anyone has a chance to give a little advice... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19727300#post19727300

:)

Are you good or do you still need help?

[Jgisler]

Are you good or do you still need help?

I still have some questions!

1 being, My LFS drilled my intake with a 90 coming up into the display. (bulkhead?) Anyways the level of the pipe is not level with the rim of the aquarium (about 2'' of glass above the 90's rim) Obviously that is where the water level will be in the display, I feel this will look like crap :eek:

how can I raise it? and why would my LFS purposely drill it that much lower from the rim? I know the water level can't be exact, but I don't want my aquarium to look as if it always needs more water...

[DanK13]

I still have some questions!

1 being, My LFS drilled my intake with a 90 coming up into the display. (bulkhead?) Anyways the level of the pipe is not level with the rim of the aquarium (about 2'' of glass above the 90's rim) Obviously that is where the water level will be in the display, I feel this will look like crap :eek:

how can I raise it? and why would my LFS purposely drill it that much lower from the rim? I know the water level can't be exact, but I don't want my aquarium to look as if it always needs more water...

It sounds as if they put the water level to the correct spot. Since you said the tank is glass then you need a decent amount of glass above the spot where you drill so that it will not affect the integrity of the tank. You need a little bit of "meat" there so that it doesn't significantly weaken the pane.

If you have an issue with the aesthetic look of it then maybe put a design below the tank trim so that it looks like it doesn't need to be topped off. Also you never want to go too high to the tank top incase there is a return/overflow issue/clog and it will give you a little time to react.

If you could post a picture that would help me get a visual of how they tapped the tank. I then could give you some plumbing options.

[Alfalfameister]

I would somehow tee off the return so that a very small output goes into the overflow chamber.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19730096#post19730096

That way, hardly any back siphon. I wouldn't trust that check valve to be infallible (although I would still install one).

[Jgisler]

It sounds as if they put the water level to the correct spot. Since you said the tank is glass then you need a decent amount of glass above the spot where you drill so that it will not affect the integrity of the tank. You need a little bit of "meat" there so that it doesn't significantly weaken the pane.

If you have an issue with the aesthetic look of it then maybe put a design below the tank trim so that it looks like it doesn't need to be topped off. Also you never want to go too high to the tank top incase there is a return/overflow issue/clog and it will give you a little time to react.

If you could post a picture that would help me get a visual of how they tapped the tank. I then could give you some plumbing options.

I posted a picture in my thread, linked above :)

[Mr. Fish]

Ok so let me state that this is the first time I've done a CAD drawing and isn't to scale.
I always hand over a hand drawing to the architects and they do it for me :)
This is a really rough picture to give you a very basic idea of how to approach this. This is just one way but in my opinion its the most direct and easiest.

Here is a simple overflow design that can be welded into the main display.
http://i.imgur.com/WOKrg.jpg

Here is the way to avoid the back siphon and flooding your tank.
http://i.imgur.com/Q9wN9.jpg

When building your overflow, 1" is equal to 7.5 gallons according to your dimensions. So if your overflows are 1" you can run your sump 2/3 full give or take the height of the overflow hole that is drilled in the back of your tank.

Dan thank you so so much for this, it really helps me understand!

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[DanK13]

Dan thank you so so much for this, it really helps me understand!

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No problem mate :)

[DanK13]

I would somehow tee off the return so that a very small output goes into the overflow chamber.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19730096#post19730096

That way, hardly any back siphon. I wouldn't trust that check valve to be infallible (although I would still install one).

Checks valves are certainly falible which is why I said to install a threaded one not a socket one. It should and will need to be replaced over time. I replace mine every year and in some cases every other year. I said to go this route versus the slight flow to the overflow box simply for aesthetics. It doesnt appear he has a hood. But you are right with the "T" off to combat back siphoning. I just gave a very simple example.