DIY LED question

[Darth Vedder]

I'm working through the design phase of a potential LED setup and have a question someone hopefully can answer...

Is there any issue having 7 CW XP-G and 7 NW XP-E LEDs in series running on one ELN-60-48D driver?

I eventually will have 14 of each cool white and neutral white but was wanting to keep the setup modular and expandable so it would work out best if I could run them as mentioned above

Any help is appreciated.. Thanks in advance

[JR719]

I'm about to do the LED change. Something I have found during research is this. Unless you have actinic suppliment, you might want to rethink your setup. Royal blue leds at around half your cool whites, ditch the neutral whites. If there are any other opinions, I would like to see pics of your tank with other led lighting, and your coral growth.

[Darth Vedder]

I am just taking the dive so to speak into the hobby so what I am planning is start building the entire setup from scratch with the help of a friend of mine who is an experienced reefer

The LED setup will be for a 48" long tank and I eventually plan to have softies, LPs and SPS.

The lighting will consist of two 10 x 18 heatsink "modules" with what I was planning to use the following LEDs per module

28 Royal Blue XP-E
14 white (considering mixing NW Xp-E with CW XP-S as from what I've read in other threads)
2 Blue XP-E (which will also serve as the moonlighting)

Between the two modules should be 90 LEDs total, and i will be controlling the lighting with an APEX controller for dimming

I wanted to keep each "module" seperate if possible so I can add more "modules" over different size tanks or maybe use just one over a smaller tank. If I ditch the NW then it's a non issue, I just wanted to make sure I could use XP-E and XP-G together in series without any ill effect

Thanks again for the help

[JR719]

I'm going a different route. Looking at the 100 watt bricks, 4 of them and 4 of the royal blue 50 watt bricks. 1 white and 1 blue per heat sink. Just curious to see how it goes. I probably will just start with 1 of each and leave the MH on the rest of the tank to watch the reaction. We'll see, only time will tell.

[Darth Vedder]

I will Definately start a build thread when I start. My logic with the "module" system is for two reasons. First, it will give it a lot sleaker look as I will be hanging it with cables and not use a hood. My preliminary price sheet is over 700 dollars so by doing it in modular form I will be able to cut that in half for the first build. If I don't like it or if it doesn't turn out as expected I can scrap it or unload it to my friend for some of his smaller frag tanks

[JR719]

Sounds like a good plan. Wish I had some good electrical and lighting experience to offer you. I am very interested in seeing what you come up with. Might make me rethink my idea.

[Matt Miller]

U can run the two in series but obviously u shouldnt exceed the current rating. I think xp-e are 1000 ma and xp-g are up to 1500ma. I would either run the nw on a separate channel and create a high noon affect. Otherwise they will give your tank an odd yellowish color. I do 60/40. Cw to rb. Xt-e is much more efficient, but costly. Check out ledgroupbuy.com. u can find cree 3 Ups but cw LEDs are deffinitly more appealing.

[Darth Vedder]

Thanks Matt.

From your opinion, you think I should go full CW? Is there a benefit to the high noon effect you mentioned? It would be doable but would complicate my "modular" design. The end result is what I'm after obviousely, so i am perceptive to design changes as I want to do it right the first time

[Matt Miller]

I understand your thought process, but curtain limitations or perks will steer you away a bit. A high noon affect will simulate a more natural daylight cycle. Then cooling down to just royal blues. Your coral will love u! All cw looks great as well. I like blueish tanks. Did u check out ledgroupbuy? It's really cheap, but shipping is a bit slow. They get their heatsinks from heatsink USA and sell items in six packs at great prices. How are u housing your project? I can't find a housing solution.


Correction Btw. 60/40 is royal blue to cool white.

[Matt Miller]

Btw. If u don't change your design plans five times; you havnt planned the best setup. My experience. It sux to add later, but its what I seem to keep doing.

[Darth Vedder]

I am currently on the third iteration, and I think I may keep all the whites CW.

Can you achieve the high noon effect by ramping up the whites slowly and keep full brightness for say 4 hours then slowly ramp the whites down and keep the royal lues on until they fade for the night cycle?

I want the best chance for coral growth as that is what is getting me into the hobby. Mkeeping fish will just be a bonus as I want the challenge of growing some beautiful coral.

I will check out that site now, I got distracted watching Moneyball

Most of my pricing so far was from rapidled.com and ledgroupbuy.com for heatsinks

As far as housing, I was planning on keeping all the drivers seperate and the rig will be just heatsink with cooling fans on top, supported in a frame made with square aluminum tubing and an acrylic splash guard mounted below the LEDs. In my mind I like this minimalist approach. I have been taking some inspiration from all the builds documented on here

[Matt Miller]

I'm building an led system currently. 12 by 6 in heatsink with two 3 up stars and 12 royal blue to 8 cool whites. I will have 2 nw incorpersted in the 3 up stars but I don't expect them to be overpowering. 2 meanwell 48p with a typhon controller from boostled.com.

This is for a 30 cube. Cost is up near $230 without wire, switchs, fans, solder, and few other misc parts.

[yeldarbj]

There is no problem mixing XP-E and XP-G on a single string. Since you are planning on using a 60-48d, make sure you adjust the current output to keep from blowing the XP-E's. Why not just stick with all XP-G's? I would absolutely mix the CW and NW or go with all NW. I'm not a fan of all CW. I recently removed a lot of my CW in favor of NW. I have a mix of NW, CW, and a couple WW. Also, consider taking out 4 of the RB and using blues (or even greens) mixed in.

Have you considered mixing in some true violets - 420nm? Makes a big difference to me.

My current ratio overall ratio is ~ 4RB:1B:2W:1TV and colors are much better than the typical 2RB:1W or 1RB:1W. My next plan is to experiment with mixing some 660nm deep reds and greens.

[SC Reefaholic]

Dont see the reasoning behind using XP-E white LEDs unless you just already have them and dont want to buy the XP-Gs. XP-E are old technology. Even the XP-Gs are going to be outdated by next year.

Dont think I would go with 14 either. You are pushing your driver to the MAX and that is never a good thing. Most will tell you that 80% to 85% of capacity is the most you want to run to maximize the life.

I would go with 10 CW XP-Gs and 3 NW XP-Gs for a total of 13 on the string. I assume you are going to have a string of RBs on another driver as well or some other actinic lighting. Otherwise you will need to add in some RB & B or it will look like you are running a 10K MH over your tank.

What size tank are you building for?

My setup is 36 RB, 12 CW and 4 NW over a 65H 36x18 footprint. Thinking about switching out 4 RB for B and maybe 2 more CW for NW.

Whatever way you go it is great having the blue and white on separate dimmable drivers so you can mix the color however you want.

[yeldarbj]

XR-E's are the older tech. XP-E's provide the most value right now in LED's, nothing wrong with using them, especially for RB and B. You are only maxing out the 60-48d with 14 in a string if you are running them at 1.3A or higher which the 60-48d can do but it's not recommended to go higher or the lifespan of the driver will be reduced. If you still plan on mixing the XP-E and XP-G, set the driver to ~700-800ma to keep from blowing the XP-E's and you'll be fine. Even if you go all XP-G, set the driver to 1A and you'll still be in the 80% capacity range.

[SC Reefaholic]

XR-E's are the older tech. XP-E's provide the most value right now in LED's, nothing wrong with using them, especially for RB and B. You are only maxing out the 60-48d with 14 in a string if you are running them at 1.3A or higher which the 60-48d can do but it's not recommended to go higher or the lifespan of the driver will be reduced. If you still plan on mixing the XP-E and XP-G, set the driver to ~700-800ma to keep from blowing the XP-E's and you'll be fine. Even if you go all XP-G, set the driver to 1A and you'll still be in the 80% capacity range.

Valid point regarding value but I somewhat disagree with regard total usage. The more volts you try to power with the 48D it the less available current. I have seen parallel strings of 11 pushed at over an amp. Thats over 2 amps of output with the lower voltage of 11 LEDs. Well over the published maximum of 1.3 amps. The forward voltage rating on an XP-G is near 3.5 so running 14 full throttle could be 49 volts. So how would you know what the actual max current should be? I prefer to leave a little wiggle room. Just an opinion.

[yeldarbj]

Valid point regarding value but I somewhat disagree with regard total usage. The more volts you try to power with the 48D it the less available current. I have seen parallel strings of 11 pushed at over an amp. Thats over 2 amps of output with the lower voltage of 11 LEDs. Well over the published maximum of 1.3 amps. The forward voltage rating on an XP-G is near 3.5 so running 14 full throttle could be 49 volts. So how would you know what the actual max current should be? I prefer to leave a little wiggle room. Just an opinion.

I understand your not wanting to max out the driver, but according to the Cree data sheet, the XP-G has a forward voltage of 3.2 at 700 mA and 3.3 at 1000mA. That gives total voltages of 44.8 and 46.2 respectively when running 14 LEDs. You are absolutely correct that you probably don't want to run a string of 14 at 1.3 (rated max for 60-48d) or 1.5 amps (max for XP-G), but running a string of 14 at 700mA or 1000mA falls well within the spec of the driver.

[Darth Vedder]

XR-E's are the older tech. XP-E's provide the most value right now in LED's, nothing wrong with using them, especially for RB and B. You are only maxing out the 60-48d with 14 in a string if you are running them at 1.3A or higher which the 60-48d can do but it's not recommended to go higher or the lifespan of the driver will be reduced. If you still plan on mixing the XP-E and XP-G, set the driver to ~700-800ma to keep from blowing the XP-E's and you'll be fine. Even if you go all XP-G, set the driver to 1A and you'll still be in the 80% capacity range.

I was planning on using XP-E on the Blue, Royal Blue, and Natural Whites because I was under the impression those where all that was available in those colors.

I guess working on my design at 4 am played it's toll as I overlooked the NW being available in XP-G so my initial question was unnecessary. Thanks for all your input or I would have not caught that.

The total color mix I was considering was as follows

56 Royal Blue
14 Cool White
14 Natural White
6 Blue (on their own driver to also serve as the moonlight)

All input on a better blend for good coral growth is appreciated

[Darth Vedder]

Also, now that I'm more alert

Is XT-E royal Blue the way ro go over the older XP-E Royal Blues?

[yeldarbj]

I was planning on using XP-E on the Blue, Royal Blue, and Natural Whites because I was under the impression those where all that was available in those colors.

I guess working on my design at 4 am played it's toll as I overlooked the NW being available in XP-G so my initial question was unnecessary. Thanks for all your input or I would have not caught that.

The total color mix I was considering was as follows

56 Royal Blue
14 Cool White
14 Natural White
6 Blue (on their own driver to also serve as the moonlight)

All input on a better blend for good coral growth is appreciated

What driver are you planning on using for a moonlight? I think you will find 6 blues at 700mA will be a very bright moonlight. I think you'd be better off with 2-4 using 350mA driver (sold by Rapid) even that might be pretty bright.

Looks like you are planning 6 strings of 14. Are you running any in parallel or planning 6 drivers? Dimming?

Here is a color combo I'd recommend using the same total numbers:
28 Royal Blue
14 Blue (could also go 8 Blue, 4 Royal Blue in this string)
14 True Violet (420nm)
14 Neutral White
14 Neutral White (or Cool White)

I'm still experimenting with deep red, greens, and turquoise - so still up in the air on those. I recently put together a small fixture to test with 4 RB, 2 TV, 2 Turquoise, 2 Deep Red, and 2 Neutral Whites. Overall it's surprisingly white.

[Darth Vedder]

I was planning 6 strings of 14 dim able with ELN-60-48D drivers

Foe the blues to be used as moonlight and blue during the day, I planned on using the moonlight driver at rapidled to run a string of 3 blues. I will use two of these 10 dollar drivers

I also considered running all 6 on an ELN-60-27D so it would be dim able as well

[yeldarbj]

I have one of Rapids $10 moonlight drivers but haven't used it yet. I think you'd be better off with the 60-27D if you are planning to use it during the day too. You'll be surprised at how bright a 3w LED is even when dimmed to it's lowest.

I think you should consider mixing in a string of violets. They make all the difference to me and also look very cool as a dawn/dusk look. They are very much like a true actinic fluorescent tube.

[Matt Miller]

Are u using a controller? Apex? Doesn't it need 10 v PWM signal. The 48d is used for manual dimming.

[Darth Vedder]

I have one of Rapids $10 moonlight drivers but haven't used it yet. I think you'd be better off with the 60-27D if you are planning to use it during the day too. You'll be surprised at how bright a 3w LED is even when dimmed to it's lowest.

I think you should consider mixing in a string of violets. They make all the difference to me and also look very cool as a dawn/dusk look. They are very much like a true actinic fluorescent tube.

Good point. I initially planned on the bigger driver then was trimming cost but in reality it's like a 10 dollar difference between 2 moonlight drives and the 27D

I'm also thinking of a 14 string violet in place of some of the ROyal Blues now as well

Thanks for the input.

[Darth Vedder]

Are u using a controller? Apex? Doesn't it need 10 v PWM signal. The 48d is used for manual dimming.

I eventually plan to use Apex

It's my understanding the 48D can be used manually with a potentiometer and 10V power supply to dim, or can be dimmed with the apex controller

Is this correct?

[yeldarbj]

Are u using a controller? Apex? Doesn't it need 10 v PWM signal. The 48d is used for manual dimming.

I think Apex controllers use 0-10v signals. I'm using a Profilux controller with 60-48d's.

[Matt Miller]

Your correct. After a bit of research a PWM signal will not work, but u will need to buy some accessories to integrate the 48d and the apex. I don't own one so I have little knowledge as to what your gonna need to do. Apex has a forum somewhere.

If u don't get the apex in time u could check out rapidled.com for there dual dimming kit. Running them constant current is a possibility as well.

[Jamesjkl]

For the Apex you will need a cable you can purchase or DIY to use the d series drivers nothing else. 1-10 volt is what you want for the Apex.