NoPox when Nitrates/Phosphates already low?

[jimrawr]

I have a problem with hair algae, that is stubborn as hell. Its not out of control by any means, but its enough to bother the hell out of me. My PO4 is usually around .02-.06 and my NO3 is usually less than 1ppm. I know everyone says that they are low because the algae consumes them, but I don't really subscribe to that. I have gone at times changing GFO every 2 days for a month, having ZERO po4 during that time and the algae still grows. I have dosed vodka for months to get NO3 to ZERO, and still had growth. I also removed one of the rocks, put it in a 5g bucket with flow and heat, covered the bucket, and the algae was still on the rock after ONE MONTH.

Right now I employ a few methods to try and get rid of it.

1. GFO reactor
2. Heavy Skimming
3. Algae Turf Scrubber
4. Macro algae in sump
5. Tried algae fix marine, didnt work at all.

All these things, and the GHA still thrives. I dont want to say thrives, it doesnt grow very much at all, but it wont go away. It seems as if this algae really needs close to nothing for nutrients. A friend recommended NOPOX, so Ive done a bit of reading, and I am hesitant to try it because my PO4 and NO3 are already low, and this products focus is to reduce these. I am looking for a bit of insight from Red Sea as to whether they think I am a good candidate for this product along side the other biological filtration methods I use. Do you guys recommend NOPOX to someone with 1ppm No3 and .03 PO4?

Here are some pictures of the worst infected areas in the tank, and also my sump.

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120116_175618.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120116_175633.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120116_175721.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120116_175740.jpg

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp120/jimrawr/20120116_175758.jpg

[jimrawr]

bump..

[eric mac]

Him Jim. I was and am still in ur boots. About a yearago I tried bio pellets. A week after starting bio pellets I got a bloom of GHA. I started running gfo to fight the algea with no luck. I even was down to feeding fish twice a week until my sps started fading away. I stopped bio pellets asap. The next day I saw this box at LPS that said "algea control" on it. I asked the owner about it. He said "Idk, it's suppose to b really good, but haven't had any customers us it yet". I grabbed a bottle and said ill try it and give u my results. B4 nopox my no3 @ 1 & po4 @ .16. With in a day my no3 was at 0. But po4 was still .16. I figured I would dose the same as if my no3 was still high to see if it could help with po4. After a month of dosing 18ml's a day my po4 was down to .04 and GHA was starting to reside. After the first month I dropped the dosing to 10ml a day and did that for the next month. Half way thro the second month my GHA was completely gone and is still gone and po4 was at .02 at the end of 2nd month. During the 3 I dropped the dosing down to 8ml a day every thing was doing great. About 3 weeks ago my reef club started a coral grow out contest. I decided to enter to see if there is a diference in color program and grow program.
So I dropped my dosing to 6ml a day so I could get my no3 up to 1 again. Well 3 weeks later no3 still at 0 and po4 at .02. I even started to feed alittle more around a week and a half ago to see if that would help, nope. Now I'm getting brown hair on my over flowboxs and fragrack.

Yes it did help me with the GHA. Only when running nopox heave and skimmer wet.

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi,
It sounds exactly like the problem "hythereef" had:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19811243#post19811243
I don't want to push you to use anything, but if you decide to give it a go, I’ll be more than happy to assist.
The problem with the GHA is that it grows exactly at the nutrient source, using whatever nutrients the rocks releases.
It’s a long tough battle to fight, but doable.
Keep the nutrients as low as you can.
Good luck,
Aviad

[jimrawr]

Well I have decided to give it a go. I have tried so many things to get rid of this GHA and nothing has worked. I started with a 92g corner tank, sumpless. The things I have tried are

- Added Sump
- Newer Better SWC 180 Skimmer
- Algae Fix Marine - Tried for 3 months
- Lower Feedings to 1 cube every other day for 7 fish.
- Increased flow with Vortech pumps
- GFO out the wazoo - got to the point where I was changing GFO 2 times weekly for 2 months with no change to the GHA.
- Vacum sandbed at every waterchange
- Blow off rocks at every water change
- Tried Chaeto 3 times each time it died. No, it wasnt the lighting or the flow.
- Tried Gracilaria, which at least survives unlike the chaeto, but not pulling out enough nutrients.
- Bought a Yellow tang (wont touch the stuff)
- Bought MANY mexican turbos
- Bought a foxface
- Bought many misc snails/hermits/sea hares (never saw any of them going for it)
- Installed a Algae Turf Scrubber (only as of a month ago, this seems to be helping as it is growing algae on it)
- Started a NOPOX regimen (today)

So as you can see I've covered a lot of the bases that create GHA, and really I've had no success. So here I am, ready to try ANYTHING to get rid of this stuff. I bought the NOPOX today, and started with my first dose of 8ml. My tank is a 92g corner tank with a 20g sump, I estimate around 90-100g of total water volume.

Here are my latest parameters, three separate tests all taken in a 10 day period

Ca: 430, 440, 440
Alk: 9.3, 9.9, 9.9 DKH
MG: 1250, 1300, 1250
PO4: .01, .04, .02
NO3: All three tests look like between .2 and 1.0 on seachem
SG: 1.024
Temp: 77-78
Ph: 8.35-8:45

[RedSea Aviad]

OK Jim,
One request before we start, run to the store and buy 2-5lbs of patience…:twitch:
Do you have dry fish food?
If you do, start feeding the fish once a day and only with the dry food.
Stop or reduce the use of frozen food to once a week, prior do the feeding dissolve the cube in water and strain it a few times.
(you’ll be surprised to see how dirty the water can be)

Keep the 8ml dose for a week, and test NO3 and PO4 after a week of use.
If it’s still detectable, up the dose to 12ml\day.
After a week try to remove as much GHA as you can.
Following the growth will give you a better indication about your progress.
In 6-8 weeks you will see a slow in growth and even receding in the GHA.
Once the Nutrients are zeroed you will need to feed the corals in order to prevent them from fading.
But one thing at a time.
I’m here, feel free to update me and ask what’s on your mind.
Good luck,
Aviad

[jimrawr]

OK Jim,
One request before we start, run to the store and buy 2-5lbs of patience…:twitch:
Do you have dry fish food?
If you do, start feeding the fish once a day and only with the dry food.
Stop or reduce the use of frozen food to once a week, prior do the feeding dissolve the cube in water and strain it a few times.
(you’ll be surprised to see how dirty the water can be)

Keep the 8ml dose for a week, and test NO3 and PO4 after a week of use.
If it’s still detectable, up the dose to 12ml\day.
After a week try to remove as much GHA as you can.
Following the growth will give you a better indication about your progress.
In 6-8 weeks you will see a slow in growth and even receding in the GHA.
Once the Nutrients are zeroed you will need to feed the corals in order to prevent them from fading.
But one thing at a time.
I’m here, feel free to update me and ask what’s on your mind.
Good luck,
Aviad

Thanks Aviad, believe me I dont expect anything to happen fast with this algae, especially considering everything I have tried that hasnt helped already. If this works in 2-3 months I will be more than satisfied.

As far as feeding, I always hear different opinions on which foods to feed. Ive been told not to feed frozen, and also not to feed flake, because of high PO4 in the foods. Right now I mostly feed frozen and I always rinse it first, but I do have NLS pellets and also flake.

Will post again after 1 week with test results

Jim

[jimrawr]

Today my PO4 is .01 and non-detectable nitrates. Should I lower my dosage tomorrow, and if so by how much?

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi Jim,
Don’t reduce the dose quite yet.
Remove as much algae as you can and see if it grows back.
If the growth stops reduce the dose, if not- keep going!
Good luck,
Aviad

[jimrawr]

Ok I will try to get out as much as I can

thanks!

[RedSea Aviad]

Your welcome.
Keep me posted.
Aviad

[jimrawr]

GHA is not regrowing, but its also not dying in the areas that I cannot get to. I am starting to get some STN on the base of some of my corals, and also my skimmer is going crazy for the last week. I cut back to 5ml today of dosing, should I change anything or keep dosing 5ml?

TY

[RedSea Aviad]

HI,
If you got the GHA under control keep the same dose.
Your skimmer is taking out excess bacteria.
As for the STN, you might want to check your Alk, Ca, and Mg.
Do you feed the corals?
They need to be fed.
If you feel you need to reduce the dose from 8ml, do it gradually by 1-1.5ml.
After each dose change wait for 7-12 days and let the system stabilize with the new dose and you will see either growth or no change of GHA.
You’re doing good.
Keep me posted,
Aviad

[jimrawr]

I am feeding coral AA's via pohl extra special, and will also be starting some oyster feast

[jimrawr]

Lost a fish today, anemone looks like crap, and corals still STN. Parameters are fine, CA a little high (520) but everything else is exactly where they should be, and have been stable for months.

Going to back off dosing this product, dropping 2ml per day for the next 4 days. Not sure if this product is to blame, but its the only thing I have changed besides dosing Xtra Special

[yeldarbj]

Just happened to see your thread here, and I don't think that's hair algae that you have, it's probably bryopsis. Do the strands look like tiny ferns? If so, it's likely bryopsis. Raise your magnesium to above 1600 with Kent Tech M (don't bother with any other mag supplements), within a couple weeks it will be gone.

[jimrawr]

Its not Bryopsis, battled that in the past as well. This isnt fern like at all

[ReefMan Qc.]

Hi Aviad, I getting some green algea on my rock and i'm using nopox and Energy A & B. My Nitrate are at 0 and my PO4 also at 0. I put 3 ml of nopox daily in my 65 g and 6 ml of Energy A & B, I run in low nutriment. Should I raise the nopox or is the nopox the problem ? How much and for I long ? Thanks

[RedSea Aviad]

Lost a fish today, anemone looks like crap, and corals still STN. Parameters are fine, CA a little high (520) but everything else is exactly where they should be, and have been stable for months.

Going to back off dosing this product, dropping 2ml per day for the next 4 days. Not sure if this product is to blame, but its the only thing I have changed besides dosing Xtra Special

The only issue you might have with NOPOX is if the water are poorly oxidize.
I did some testing, with a heavily stocked(fish) tank, adding 50 times of the recommended dose and as long as the skimmer is working fine you have nothing to worry about.
I don’t recommend to dose that much, but 2-3 ml\25gal is nothing to be concerned about.
It’s safe to use and will not kill fish or corals!
I wouldn’t have said that with such a great confidence, unless I tested it myself in my lab.
If your fish looks bad, try looking elsewhere there might be something else that’s causing it.

Hi Aviad, I getting some green algea on my rock and i'm using nopox and Energy A & B. My Nitrate are at 0 and my PO4 also at 0. I put 3 ml of nopox daily in my 65 g and 6 ml of Energy A & B, I run in low nutriment. Should I raise the nopox or is the nopox the problem ? How much and for I long ? Thanks

You can up the dose to 5-8ml a day gradually and feed more as you up the NOPOX dose.
8-10ml of Energy A and B(each).
Hope I helped,
Aviad

[ReefMan Qc.]

The only issue you might have with NOPOX is if the water are poorly oxidize.
I did some testing, with a heavily stocked(fish) tank, adding 50 times of the recommended dose and as long as the skimmer is working fine you have nothing to worry about.
I don’t recommend to dose that much, but 2-3 ml\25gal is nothing to be concerned about.
It’s safe to use and will not kill fish or corals!
I wouldn’t have said that with such a great confidence, unless I tested it myself in my lab.
If your fish looks bad, try looking elsewhere there might be something else that’s causing it.



You can up the dose to 5-8ml a day gradually and feed more as you up the NOPOX dose.
8-10ml of Energy A and B(each).
Hope I helped,
Aviad

Ok, I try that but for how long ? Do I maintain those dose ? Thanks

[RedSea Aviad]

Keep the dose and feed accordingly.
Regards,
Aviad

[ReefMan Qc.]

Keep the dose and feed accordingly.
Regards,
Aviad

Okay, Thanks again Aviad :beer:

[RedSea Aviad]

Keep me posted!
Aviad