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rayn
01/16/2012, 08:50 PM
Someone brought in a "white carpet anemone" they say they had for for three years. It has a tinge of green on the tentacles and its foot is buried, but the mouth is open a bit. Is there such a thing as a white carpet? and is it worth a shot?

syrinx
01/16/2012, 09:25 PM
Yes it is likely bleached. If it is three years old- likely the tank it was in had light failure or other issue that was not corrected before it bleached. There are many good stories of otherwise healthy anemones recovering from this- but you will have to decide on the mouth issue and other condition issues to assess if it is a good risk. Or provide a photo of course. But you have enough information at this point to try to negotiate a drastic price reduction.

rayn
01/16/2012, 09:35 PM
Bleached or starting or continuing the bleach. Either way that is enough for me to pass. It is only 70 bucks, but I haven't had luck with supposed healthy carpets in the past.

Toddrtrex
01/16/2012, 09:44 PM
IMO, $70 is a lot of money for a bleached anemone that may be going downhill (( the open mouth )), I wouldn't take that risk.

rayn
01/16/2012, 09:48 PM
Thanks guys...pass.

bayouboy
01/17/2012, 02:13 PM
there are true white capet anenomes. Sticohdactyla Mertensii (Merten Carpet Anenome). I have a beautiful healthy specimen that is a greenish yellow. But be careful, a bleached anenome could be confused for a true white anenome.

Reefvette
01/17/2012, 03:12 PM
No mertens is completely white.

They have tentacles that are white and are very numerous.

The anemone in your signature avatar is bleached as well. the underside and top side should never been translucent or the same color.

rayn
02/03/2012, 10:28 PM
Hey guys, I am dragging this back up as the carpet is still there. They currently have it under plain old flourescent lights and it seems to be doing well there. It has started to turn a green color on the tentacles though. The foot is definitely planted in the gravel and it reacts well to the touch. They also say it is eating silversides and krill daily. The mouth is closed, but there are the small bubbles(or guts) coming out and they move in and out a bit. Otherwise it seems tight and small. I am tempted to try it hope its mouth will close under my T5 lights.

Is there a good reason not to?

garygb
02/03/2012, 10:34 PM
It may be a healthy anemone overall, despite being mostly bleached. If you are willing to take the chance, I say go for it.

rayn
02/03/2012, 10:37 PM
I think it wqs bleqched when they got it and it is slowly turning around. It is looking better every time i see it though.

garygb
02/03/2012, 10:43 PM
A haddoni is quite dark in color when not bleached at all. If it looks pale green, then it may be recovering its zooxanthellae, but still has a way to go. That doesn't mean it's not healthy, just still in the process of getting back to its ideal condition.

rayn
02/03/2012, 10:51 PM
That is it, a haddoni. Couldnt remember that name for anything. It was white when l first saw it, but now has a green look to it. Though not the darker green associated wih haddonis.

rayn
02/06/2012, 08:40 PM
I finally got pics of the carpet. Only issue now is it was starting to fold up when I got there, but slowly started to come back down.

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120206_191832.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120206_192258.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120206_192306.jpg

I also found this one out there. About half the price and little less then half the size too

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120206_192336.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120206_192337.jpg

BonsaiNut
02/06/2012, 09:11 PM
2nd one might be a mertensii. You would need to get a better photo of the column.

Regardless, both are bleached, but are not the worse I have seen. I certainly wouldn't pay $70 for either... my personal opinion.

rayn
02/06/2012, 09:17 PM
You should have seen the big one three weeks ago, almost pure white.

The smaller one is only 35.

Both bleached l get, is there a chance under good lighting that the smaller could come back? It is still very sticky to the touch too.

Willster
02/06/2012, 09:25 PM
T5s are a little weak to try to keep these long term. You could use them to "nurse" them back to health, and light acclimate them. MH or LEDs are a more appropriate choice for them. Is there any way you could change your lighting?

Toddrtrex
02/06/2012, 09:29 PM
As long as the T5s have individual reflectors, they will be more then enough for an S. haddoni. One thing I would never call T5s is weak.

rayn
02/06/2012, 09:34 PM
The smaller one l would consider putting in my reef and it runs MH. The larger l just didnt want to dedicate that much room to as the other tank it would be a solo item in there. I know they will grow, but the tank can also grow with or around the smaller one.

T5 l have is the aquaticlife but running geismann bulbs in it.

Also once it is in l would like to not have to move it if l really dont have to.

Toddrtrex
02/06/2012, 09:39 PM
One thing to remember -- they can/will eat your fish, even healthy fish, so consider the risks when putting it a tank with other fish.

davocean
02/06/2012, 09:42 PM
Agree, T5's are plenty, the PC's they are currently under may be a touch weak, but that might actually be kinda good since they are both recovering/building zooanthelle.
The first one appears to maybe be reaching for more light.
Bleached is not the best way to start out, but I personally would gamble on the second/smaller/cheaper one, and acclimate it to your light w/ screen if you do purchase it.

garygb
02/06/2012, 09:43 PM
Your lighting would be fine for this species. With good water quality, both of the anemones you pictured would most likely be fine.

rayn
02/06/2012, 10:03 PM
Thanks guys. I think the smaller one is the one l like more now. As for water quality my big issue in the reef would be trate at 20, but they are going down through water changes and vodka dosing. Alk is 9.5 cal 400+ mag is 1250+-.

The other tank in consideration is maintained through weekly water changes of 20 or more to 50%

Willster
02/06/2012, 10:41 PM
Perhapse weak was a bad word choice. In reality it all depends on the depth of the tank. Obviously t5s will work good for a tank not outrageously deep. Either way, good luck with them :)

rayn
02/06/2012, 10:51 PM
Ok help me decide which would be the better choice.

T5 are over a 40b while the MH are 250 watt over a 120 that is 26" deep and the lights are 9" above the tank. Both tanks are over a year old too if that helps.

Agioniko
02/06/2012, 11:09 PM
Pass on it as you will just waste your money

davocean
02/06/2012, 11:20 PM
T5's have plenty of penetration for a 24" deep tank, which I think is most common.
To answer your question I would choose the 120 w/ MH, although T5's would be fine for that too, but I wouldn't do it until you get your trates lower and you need to raise your mag as well.

rayn
02/07/2012, 05:53 PM
I am going to give the smaller on a shot. Temp acclimated and now drip acclimating. I will give that about a hour or so.

in the bag
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0430.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0431.jpg

in the bucket/bag
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0434.jpg

D-Nak
02/07/2012, 06:44 PM
I've seen worse that have made it, and out of all of the carpet nems, I think you have a really good shot with the haddoni you picked up. it's showing a presence of zooxanthellae since it's not completely white, so with some food and decent light, I think it'll be fine. I'd personally place it in the tank with the halides but also depends on the tank conditions. Whichever one you can keep most consistent, I'd put it in that tank. Good luck!

rayn
02/07/2012, 08:07 PM
In the tank. I dug a hole and placed it in it and it seems to be taking hold and lnot floating around. I also see the mouth is closed! Probably the tightest closed mouth of any nem l have tried. Pics to come.

Saltwaternooby
02/07/2012, 08:20 PM
Not to hijack but,

Your looks very good compared to mine that made a full recovery.

When I bought it from a local reefer,
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/Stkmach/IMG_0716.jpg

He said that he bought it because he "has never seen a white carpet anemone before" but I knew it was bleached.


Same Haddoni 3.5 months later,
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz141/Stkmach/DSC03579.jpg

Saltwaternooby
02/07/2012, 08:30 PM
In the tank. I dug a hole and placed it in it and it seems to be taking hold and lnot floating around. I also see the mouth is closed! Probably the tightest closed mouth of any nem l have tried. Pics to come.

Thats a good sign.

rayn
02/07/2012, 08:52 PM
Your looks nice saltwaternooby!

pics
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0456.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0455.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0454.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0453.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0452.jpg

this one is trying to show the mouth, sorry about the couple blurry ones
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0457.jpg

these are right after tank placement and it has buried its foot more as time goes on. I also thought I had screen, but didn't. So I have six layers of eggcrate above it right now. Seems to lower the light intensity by about half.

rayn
02/08/2012, 08:49 AM
This morning the nem is basically flat and the mouth is slightly open. Hopefully still just getting used to the tank though. Still hasnt moved from the original spot though.

rayn
02/08/2012, 02:30 PM
Not much changed really, but l just seen my ocelleris playing in it. I wqs hoping for that, but do l need to worry that it might be a bit early? I dont want them to stress the nem out.

D-Nak
02/08/2012, 02:38 PM
I personally recommend that nems and clowns are separated until the nem is acclimated, but I know that others who have left their clowns and nems alone have done fine too. My experience with Percula and gigantea anemones lead me to believe that the clowns are doing more hard than good. My Percs tried to burrow themselves into the gig's mouth, and removed food from the nem.

If your haddoni doesn't look like it's negatively affected by the clown, then it might be okay. Playing with the nem sounds fine, just keep an eye for a "rough" or abusive clown.

rayn
02/08/2012, 02:46 PM
I actually think it looks a bit better now then say a hour ago. BUT l have seen both male and female nose dive into the mouth in the last five minutes. If l need to basket cover him l will.

garygb
02/08/2012, 03:05 PM
I'm glad it's settling in for you. I would definitely get to work on getting those nitrates to undetectable. though they might not directly kill an anemone, the anemone will have a much better chance of making it without that irritation. Water changes, skimming, activated carbon and monitoring your levels is my suggestion for getting them in check.

rayn
02/08/2012, 03:11 PM
I wouldnt have thought 20 ppm would be a issue, but l am no nem expet by any means. I used to have a couple rbta bt they both up and dissapeared months ago. My trates were in the 80+ range a couple months ago until vodka kicked in and l started doing larger more frequent water changes. I have water mixed for a 25 gallon change tonight as well.

I am watching the ongoing clown/nem and it actually appears to be helping the nem mouth close up. Not sure why or if it is a reflex type deal. Before you could stick a bic pen in, now it is tight again.

westohooligan
02/08/2012, 04:39 PM
If it pulls through, looks like you'll have a nice lime green color. Mine is the grayish/blue color. :\ Did your clowns pretty much take to it right away? I've had my haddoni for 6 weeks and my clowns have been with it for about a week, but want nothing to do with it!

rayn
02/08/2012, 04:44 PM
I have had it for 24 hours now and in the tank for a few less then that. It took the clowns till around noon today to find it. I was hopeful, but not positive as they haven't been around a nem before now that they went into. I like the green, but the blue is a good color too.

I bought a lta a long time ago and a clown actually came with it and stayed with it. The nem didn't make it and then the clown committed suicide in the overflow.

Willster
02/08/2012, 10:07 PM
Have you tried small feelings yet?

rayn
02/08/2012, 10:19 PM
Not yet. I am not convinced it has totally set in yet, though it hasnt moved any. With the clowns already in it l want to give it plenty of time to settle. Maybe tomorrow or next tank feeding on friday.

rayn
02/10/2012, 09:41 PM
Mouth has closed up for pretty much the most part, though there are still times l see it slightly open. Nothing coming out at all though. Clowns hardly leave it either. I did squirt some pemysis by it tonight and got a good curling up feeding response. So far looking good.

mpongrac
02/12/2012, 08:06 PM
Good to see that they can color up nicely, just bought one a few days ago, and hoping it will color up even more

jgmorr02
02/12/2012, 09:55 PM
Good luck! update us with more pictures as you go along.

rayn
02/15/2012, 04:19 PM
I have a question now and will get a pic up shortly.

It seems smaller today then usual. The other day it kinda stood up on its foot real tall, and now has kinds shrunk down lower. Also l have noticed that its foot isnt exactly buried in the substrate but more attached to it. Still hasnt moved a bit though.

rayn
02/15/2012, 05:30 PM
pics
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0506.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0505.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0519.jpg

rayn
02/16/2012, 06:10 AM
Well now this morning it shrunk up big time. Looks flat. It is about 3 inches around, but flat. I also noticed that the mouth looks a little red now.

garygb
02/16/2012, 04:47 PM
I've read comments that vodka dosing and anemones don't mix. You definitely should be getting the nitrates down, if they're 20, but I'm not sure vodka is the way to do it. I personally haven't used vodka dosing, so I can only say I've read that some haven't had good results with nems.

D-Nak
02/16/2012, 05:06 PM
Hmmm... did we ever get a positive ID on this nem? Maybe it's not a haddoni? It looks a little off now that I look at it more... Sorry, probably just me. I don't see clearly visible verrucae, so I doubt it's mertensii or gigantea. Have you tried moving it near the base the rock? I wonder if it will climb.

Regarding water conditions, I think most Stichodactlya nems are stressed by drastic changes in water conditions than by the condition itself, meaning if you are attempting to reduce nitrates and the pH suddenly falls quite a bit, then you'll stress the nem even more than if had just left everything alone. Speaking of pH, the target should be 8.3 and it shouldn't fluctuate that much.

Looks like you've only had it about a week, so it's probably still getting used to tank conditions.

garygb
02/16/2012, 05:14 PM
Definitely looks like haddoni to me.

rayn
02/16/2012, 05:24 PM
As foe the vodka, l hadnt heard that before. But if true that blows.

I have contemplated moving it closer to the rocks anyway, but l fear moving it and possibly tearing the foot if it is attached. May be worth the gamble though. If l can get the clowns to leave it for 5 minutes.

Thanks for the help too.

D-Nak
02/16/2012, 05:54 PM
Cool, looks like haddoni to me too, but then started to second guess myself.

If you can, I would isolate the clowns so they don't mess with the nem. If the nem's foot is starting to attach, don't move it.

Winwood
02/16/2012, 06:15 PM
For what it's worth I dose vodka at a rate of .5 ml of vodka a day on my 100 gallon and it doesn't seem to bother my H. crispa.

rayn
02/16/2012, 06:26 PM
My dosing is in the range of 8.5 ml split half morning and night.

I could try to move the clowns, but only way would be to basically cover the nem or remove the clowns. I also wonder about the light and if it is getting enough or acclimated yet. It is still new, but this is generally the time frame my nems go south for any number of reasons.

garygb
02/16/2012, 06:42 PM
Again, I've just heard reports of problems with nems when dosing w vodka. I don't see why it should cause a problem, maybe others can comment who use it.

rayn
02/16/2012, 06:48 PM
I just hadnt heard that, though l had heard it could be a issue with clams and mine still grows with the vodka.

How long to carpets generally take to fully acclimate to a tank? Then would/could it take longer if the clowns bother it?

Toddrtrex
02/16/2012, 06:49 PM
If the anemone is stressed -- which this one seems to be -- increasing the bacteria (( which carbon dosing basically does )) can increase the stress and in some cases even push the anemone over the edge.

Years ago, I have a blue S. haddoni. It stressed spawned (( emergency back surgery, sump ran dry, salinity jumped to 1.031, temps spiked to high 80's, { freak heat wave in March } and then dropped to around 70* )), but I managed to get things back under control, though it was still "off". For some reason I tried a bio-active salt (( pretty much the same thing as carbon dosing )), and things took a turn for the worse, and I lost it. Granted, with hindsight it was easy to see.

Ended up taking to Randy (( the chem guru )) about this and he had similar results with carbon dosing and an H. crispa (( believe that was the species )) -- not 100% if it died or not.

Anyways, I would advise against doing that at this point.

rayn
02/16/2012, 08:15 PM
Nem is moved. As feared it wasn't really attached but to the top layer of substrate. I dug a hole and placed the foot into the hole, like I thought I did previously. Also next to some rock this time around.

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120216_200614.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120216_200619.jpg

BonsaiNut
02/16/2012, 08:59 PM
Give him time. He is bleached, but he looks pretty good otherwise. He is puffed up and firm, which is a good sign. When they get limp and deflate... that's a bad sign.

rayn
02/16/2012, 09:54 PM
Hopefully the move helped it. I know its bleached a bit, but not as bad as some I have seen I don't think. I just hope I am giving it the correct amount of light and not over or under doing it.

Almost 2 hours and it hasn't moved from the NEW home in the tank. Hopefully it stays there as well. I believe I was lucky I didn't have a floating nem in the tank the way it was before.

westohooligan
02/17/2012, 04:49 PM
For sure, at least it is trying to stick to something. The "tumbleweed" is never usually a good sign.

rayn
02/17/2012, 05:18 PM
Home and all seems well. No movement and the slight redness around the mouth is gone.

BonsaiNut
02/18/2012, 10:30 AM
Home and all seems well. No movement and the slight redness around the mouth is gone.

For what it's worth, it is not unusual for haddonis to have a ring of color around their mouth that is a different color than the rest of the anemone. It is not (in and of itself) a sign of anything bad.

rayn
02/18/2012, 12:17 PM
Thanks you for that info!!!

rayn
02/20/2012, 06:15 PM
Is there any chance this is a Mertensii? I had it buried as you can see posted above, but now it is back on top of the substrate.

illcssd
02/20/2012, 06:21 PM
0% chance. That is a Haddoni.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk

rayn
02/20/2012, 06:23 PM
That is fine, but why will it stay on the substrate, but not stay buried?

BonsaiNut
02/20/2012, 06:45 PM
That is fine, but why will it stay on the substrate, but not stay buried?

Give it time. It may be that it is seeking more light. It may be that it is looking for different flow. Who knows? As long as nothing is messing with it (aggressive clowns, etc) let it adapt to your tank and it will settle in on its own schedule. If you keep moving it around, you run the risk of killing it with kindness. Think of all the stress it has gone through in the last month. Give it time...

rayn
02/20/2012, 06:50 PM
Easy enough. Thanks

emdr888
02/20/2012, 06:57 PM
If it's moving, it most likely dosen't like the flow. Try less flow and see what happens.

rayn
02/20/2012, 07:15 PM
It has yet to move on its own. I put it in the tank and buried the foot, it came out to sit on top of substrate. I wondered about the spot qnd kinda swished him over closer to the rocks and buried the foot again, now it is sitting on top of the substrate again.

Kore flow, less flow doesnt seem to matter to it at this point. Light could be a issue as l was still screening it. Only one layer so l took it off.

I just need more patience in this endeavor l guess. Ive just had bad luck with nems in the past.

westohooligan
02/21/2012, 08:31 AM
When I got my haddoni about 2 months ago, I dug a hole on the side of the tank with the deepest sand, but it actually moved to the side with the most shallow sand and its foot is under a rock on the bottom of the tank. You can see it underneath all flattened out on the glass.

Willster
03/25/2012, 09:51 PM
any update on the nem?

rayn
03/26/2012, 05:26 AM
Nem is doing well, though due to a leak l have had to drain my tank momentarily. It was mpved with all the rock, some sand, sand water into a different tank. Currently getting the tank set back up and hopefully it will make it through. It has colored up nicely, would hate to loose it now.

Willster
03/26/2012, 07:45 AM
Sorry for the leak :/ any chance of some pics once the tank is fixed?!

rayn
03/26/2012, 03:34 PM
Sure thing. The leak was in the bulkheads, for some reason two of them cracked and allowed a leak. Gave me a reason to move the tank to a better spot anyway.

rayn
03/27/2012, 07:41 PM
Here are a couple pics in the new home. So far it is only under a 4 bulb T5 setup till I get my MH hung tomorrow night.

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0626.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_0622.jpg

New sand, 90 some gallons of new water and this new settle right in and planted itself with a closed mouth. Best I think it has looked.

taylor t
03/27/2012, 08:32 PM
Sure looks like a gig to me.

Willster
03/27/2012, 09:39 PM
Nice!!

garygb
03/27/2012, 11:02 PM
In some of the earlier pics, I was confident it was haddoni. In those last pics it looks more gigantea. Is it dug into the sand or attached to a rock? Does it have colored verrucae on the column? If so, then it is a gig.

rayn
03/28/2012, 05:25 PM
I don't see any verrucae on the column, but it is attached to a rock for sure right now. The column is a light pink with little whitish dots. I have a pic, just gotta get it loaded yet. Still hasn't moved from its spot and looking wonderful.

rayn
04/02/2012, 05:58 PM
Here are a couple pics, though none at the area where the foot meets the tentacles.

foot
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120402_181800.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120331_220758.jpg

Still haven't got the MH hung, still under T 5

garygb
04/02/2012, 11:27 PM
Attaching to the rock would suggest gigantea. Haddoni dig into the sand. However, no colored verrucae suggests haddoni, although gigantea can have faded verrucae when the anemone isn't robust. Haddoni often have a reddish colored ring around the mouth, but not always. In the last pics, the tentacles are more similar to gigantea, though haddoni can sometimes have longer tentacles like those. I'm still not 100% certain which species it is.

illcssd
04/03/2012, 03:50 AM
I stand by my original id, that's a Haddoni. Gigantea don't bury their foot under the rocks like that, no verrucae, short tentacles; It's a Haddoni.

rayn
04/09/2012, 08:28 PM
That last pic I posted was on 4-2, well between yesterday and tonight the nem has moved almost halfway across the tank. The entire time on rocks. Nothing has changed...lighting, water chemistry, flow...all constant. Wonder where it is going? Still full out and still with a tight mouth too. I noticed the foot was light pink with white dots towards the top as well.

rayn
04/11/2012, 08:56 PM
Tonight

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120411_215149.jpg
http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr321/dougcobb/IMG_20120411_215221.jpg

Still firmly attached to the rocks though, used to be in the little cove to the far left in the pic.