startingsalt water/with mantis

[Sh0velman]

Hey guys, i have a new name as i forgot my other account completely, and ive made plenty of posts in the past about making a mantis tank as my first sw tank, but recently the idea has really been coming somewhat doable. I now have my 20 gallon tall tank empty (i know a 20g tall isnt ideal but it was my first tank and didnt know much back then) and am thinking about giving salt water a try, as i enjoy saltwater so much by looking at live rock for a good 15 min at the lfs to staring at soft corals. Anyways all in all im thinking i wanna put this tank to use, here is what i have.

-20g tall tank, with stand cover and weak fluorescent light.
-100watt heater. Need to check to see if its good for sw.
-20g hob filter. Will most likely buy a bigger one and make into a hob refugium later
-75gpd ro/di system, she's a beauty that i got for Christmas!
-and a few other basic fish keeping things.

What i know ill need
-salt mix
-baserock
-Refractometer
-powerheads
-possibly better lights
-salt water test kit
-argonite sand
- patience

Basically my biggest worry is how to care for a sw tank....I just hope ill be able and get how to mix the salt the right way and so forth and such....is it somewhat "easy"? I dont mind maintenance and general work (just spent 4 hours finishing up a "shooting range made of pvc pipe and wire for my archer fish). Just trying to make a nice stable tank with my favorite invert of all, mantis shrimp! Ideas, opinions, things i left out. need your advice! I put this in here as id build the tank around the mantis' needs.

[StephLionfish]

I've heard the Aquaclear HOB's make good DIY fuges.
Of course, macro helps a lot with water quality.
For powerheads you could go with Koralia Nano(s) of either 240gph or 425gph.

[Sh0velman]

I've heard the Aquaclear HOB's make good DIY fuges.
Of course, macro helps a lot with water quality.
For powerheads you could go with Koralia Nano(s) of either 240gph or 425gph.

lol Hi steph ;) We need to talk tomorrow night.....back on subject, sounds good! I know what mantis your going to recommend steph :lmao: , but was just wondering what everyone else might recommend. I was thinking Neogonodactylus wennerae, but didnt know if there were any just as active, hardy, and slightly larger smashers that might be well off in a 20g.

[Bluemon]

you gotta cycle it first!

if i had a 20... i would do a ternatensis...

[Sh0velman]

you gotta cycle it first!

if i had a 20... i would do a ternatensis...

Psh well obviously you have to cycle first! :spin2: lol im not a total nub! I Know how everything works (or at least all you can know from reading), as ive researched sw for prob over 2 years now..lol

Will check out the species to listed! currently surfing on Dr. Roy's list..

[Sh0velman]

Wow, Gonodactylaceus ternatensis is a real beauty!

[StephLionfish]

How about a G. smithii, G. graphurus, or G. Chiragra?

EDIT- BlueZoo sells all of those, and they even make it to the WYSIWYG.

[Sh0velman]

How about a G. smithii, G. graphurus, or G. Chiragra?

EDIT- BlueZoo sells all of those, and they even make it to the WYSIWYG.

G. smithii is nice, i think id go for a Neogonodactylus wennerae before a G. smithii though, idk... . Has anyone had experience with urchins with mantis shrimps? more specifically, tuxedo urchins?

[StephLionfish]

Some people have had success with them with smashers and some people have seen their mantis smash them into pieces. It depends on the mantis, I think.
I think size of both animals may make a difference.
( I already asked a while back ;) )

[Sh0velman]

thanks steph. I might ask this as well, has anyone kept a Neogonodactylus wennerae with a damselfish? Or did your N wennerae take down the damsel?

[StephLionfish]

Mhm. I kept mine with a Clownfish and it never gave killing the clown a second thought.
AlexS95 keeps his with a lot of fish in a 20g.
EDIT- One still could take a fish, though. Depends on the mantis entirely.

[Sh0velman]

Does keeping them with fish affect how active they tend to be?

[Bluemon]

in a small tank i.e. a five gallon they could be more shy but in a 20 a damsel and a wennerae should be fine (no effect on interactvity)

[StephLionfish]

Damsels can be monsters, though. Dana ( a member on here ) had a damsel that got cocky around his mantis. He feared it might hurt his mantis during a molt, but it never did...but still.
I had a damsel that would dig holes in the sand, and it really irritated sand dwelling corals.

[gpx1200]

salt water is easy to mix and you allready have an ro/di so thats great.
no glass heater in a mantis tank if it has to go in the tank get titanium
how you set up the tank/lights depends on species, my turatensis likes to live up high in the rocks and seems comfortable under bright lights she has never dug a single hole in the sand but is carving out a burow in the rocks.
others like peacocks can't tolerate bright light and will dig constantly eventualy burying or diging up everything in the tank.
you need to figure if you want to be able to keep corals in with it or not as well. when you look at roys list look at the depth that species is found at, the ones found in shallow reef flats and tidal zones are ushualy more tolerent of light.
the sooner you get the tank runing with sand/rocks/water the better, alot of things can develope over time frome just afew peices of live rock and some sand some macroalgie would be good in their to, good for water quality and to add some color, some mantis coloring is dependent on their envoirnment so it's good to have some color in the tank to keep them bright. my g platysoma is allways hanging out among the clumps of feather calurpa growing in his tank and the colors in his legs and markings on his shell match the color perfectly
of my 3 mantisis g.smithii, g.ternatensis and g. platysoma the platysoma is the most friendly and interactive and spends the most time out in the open, not the most colorfull species but very cool and worth consideration

[Sh0velman]

Thanks guys i really appreciate it! Just out of curiosity, how active are mantis' in general? Are they usually all out and about hunting/looking for food, or chill in their burrow. I know it depends on species but just wondering basically how shy they are. Thinking ill try Neogonodactylus wennerae or one of the slightly larger 4" mantis shrimps.

my hopes for this tank is a nifty little soft coral tank. One mantis (shallow water species) of which ever i decide on, and firmly glued frags/ soft corals....easy ones...like zoas, xenia, gsp, mushrooms. Would love moonlights....maybe try led's for this set up. And depending on the species of mantis put a yellowtailed damsel in for my urge for fish and as most see them this way, it wont be a terrible loss if the damsel is defeated. Also since porcelyn crabs/skunk cleaner shrimp arent an option id LOVE to try a blue tuxedo urchin once the tank is well established... Will also have a HOB refugium via hob filter or otherwise. Might also check into a smaller skimmer as well.

[Bluemon]

Thanks guys i really appreciate it! Just out of curiosity, how active are mantis' in general? Are they usually all out and about hunting/looking for food, or chill in their burrow. I know it depends on species but just wondering basically how shy they are. Thinking ill try Neogonodactylus wennerae or one of the slightly larger 4" mantis shrimps.

my hopes for this tank is a nifty little soft coral tank. One mantis (shallow water species) of which ever i decide on, and firmly glued frags/ soft corals....easy ones...like zoas, xenia, gsp, mushrooms. Would love moonlights....maybe try led's for this set up. And depending on the species of mantis put a yellowtailed damsel in for my urge for fish and as most see them this way, it wont be a terrible loss if the damsel is defeated. Also since porcelyn crabs/skunk cleaner shrimp arent an option id LOVE to try a blue tuxedo urchin once the tank is well established... Will also have a HOB refugium via hob filter or otherwise. Might also check into a smaller skimmer as well.

mine is way too shy. -__- and its supposed to be like the most active species ever.

And really, no glass heaters?

i doubt a smithii or a wennerae can harm the heater. (or will)

[StephLionfish]

DIY is the way to go with lights. If you buy them pre-made, it's gonna cost an arm and possibly a leg.

It completely depends on the mantis as far as how interactive they are. Look on Dr. Roy's list, and it'll tell you what the general interactiveness is for that specie. The more room they have affects how interactive they are, and IMO a 4" mantis is very borderline cramped in a 20gT. Mine is 4" and I want so badly to give her a bigger home.
Your general interactive mantis will be out wonderin around the tank, and will be front and center whenever you approach the tank. That's the response I got from my Wennie, and the little poop even tried to pop my camera a couple of times.

EDIT- ( I sure do edit a lot ) As far as the heaters go, you just never know. It may think it sees something or miss a snail or get bored etc and it's better to be safe that sorry.

[Bluemon]

D: I have no where else to put the heater then.

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/submersible-heater.htm

is that bad??

[gpx1200]

i have broken more that one glass heater just clumsaly floping them around or even banging them on the side of a tank none are made of very thick glass and most are paper thin, come to think of it i woulden't use a glass heater in any tank any more never mind a mantis tank
bluemon
don't feel to bad my smithii doesn't want anything to do with me either, i have stoped offering food at the cave and now i put in a glass shrimp every other day through the siphon hose that feeds into the tank so it just apears in the tank without me disturbing any thing, this has caused him to come out and hunt during the day for the first time since i got him. now i just need to get my dog to stay away from he tank

[gpx1200]

these look decent
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=23952
titanium is definetly mantis proof
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3743+19369&pcatid=19369

[Sh0velman]

oooh fancy heaters!

[Sh0velman]

So am i missing anything that i will need?