Calcium Reactor V Dosing Pumps

[k4ndyk1ng]

ok im just wondering what to go with, i got a 90g :)

[Essencereef]

Stay as far away from calcium reactors as you can. A 90G system with calcium reactor is almost like a Beetle with Ferrari engine - really silly. I have had my share of calcium reactors. They are technologically awesome and fun, but in practice they are difficult to tune, a bit risky, unreliable, high maintenance devices. A good 2 pump doser will take you through years of growth and tank upgrades!!! Check out GHL Profilux for instance (I've got one) sweet little doser.

[Maivortex]

i have a 70 gal with a lot of sps and would not do with out a ca reactor

[JR719]

Calcium reactors are a little finicky to set up. If your loaded heavy with sps and or lps, you will really find it is a great addition. Dosing will work also, but cost to cost comparison.... I'm really not that positive.

I did the dosing thing and it was tedious. Even with a controller, it was a pain for me. I think you'll find many different opinions. I find a calc reactor works for me, less PITA.

[Essencereef]

Calcium reactors are a little finicky to set up. If your loaded heavy with sps and or lps, you will really find it is a great addition. Dosing will work also, but cost to cost comparison.... I'm really not that positive.

I did the dosing thing and it was tedious. Even with a controller, it was a pain for me. I think you'll find many different opinions. I find a calc reactor works for me, less PITA.

True...

But look at it this way:

Once you have dialed in the right bubble rate, set-up your internal CR pH probe with controller and started recirculation- you need to figure out the drip rate, if drip rate is too slow, you will supersaturate your media within the reactor, if probe goes bad, you will overdose CO2 and melt media possibly even crashing the tank, if your outlet pipe get's clogged, you will build up pressure inside the reactor and again melt media faster. The drip rate may fluctuate as pipes get build-up on them, the feed pump can get clogged, The CO2 may lower your pH to really unpleasant levels, etc etc etc...
I have dealt with this before, there's nothing simpler on earth than getting 2 buckets of 2-part solution (like ESV B-ionic) and hooking it up to a doser. Once you are rolling, calibrate the doser, set the dose, adjust as needed. NEVER clogs. ONLY ONE piece of equipment to fail - the doser (as opposed to: feed pump, recirculating pump, CO2 probe, Controller, solenoid, and all mechanics associated with calcium reactor) I have had more trouble with Calcium reactors than success. But then again, this is JUST MY OPINION, to be taken with a grain of salt... There are plenty of people that are very successful with Calcium reactors!

[tkeracer619]

Improperly set up reactors are difficult to tune, a bit risky, unreliable, high maintenance devices.

Fixed it for you.

My CaRx has been keeping my system stable for years with little effort. With a CaRx you pay to play.

A good set of dosing pumps is probably the better option for a 90g but a calcium reactor is hard to beat on a larger higher demand system.

[k4ndyk1ng]

Stay as far away from calcium reactors as you can. A 90G system with calcium reactor is almost like a Beetle with Ferrari engine - really silly. I have had my share of calcium reactors. They are technologically awesome and fun, but in practice they are difficult to tune, a bit risky, unreliable, high maintenance devices. A good 2 pump doser will take you through years of growth and tank upgrades!!! Check out GHL Profilux for instance (I've got one) sweet little doser.

ok thanks i will just dose :)

[Retzius]

I currently have a ca rx on my 40 breeder and I prefer this method over 2 part on an aqua medic doser. I found 2 part tedious because I hated mixing it and my output would always dry up and clog. Now that I have my Ca reactor I am doing much less tinkering and the levels are more stable. Just my experience.

[karsseboom]

Calcium reactors work great.

[James77]

I have used both alternating over the years. I have sided with dosing automatically as being better, cheaper, and more reliable. I have had far too many cases of reactors effluent getting clogged or other problems causing alkalinity to severely drop before I caught the problem.

Never once have I had dosing fail or over dose. Mixing takes me 10-15 minutes every few months to mix 5 gallons. Buy it in bulk with free shipping on a group buy from bulk reef supply and it is far cheaper to setup and run than a reactor on typical sized tanks.

[k4ndyk1ng]

I have used both alternating over the years. I have sided with dosing automatically as being better, cheaper, and more reliable. I have had far too many cases of reactors effluent getting clogged or other problems causing alkalinity to severely drop before I caught the problem.

Never once have I had dosing fail or over dose. Mixing takes me 10-15 minutes every few months to mix 5 gallons. Buy it in bulk with free shipping on a group buy from bulk reef supply and it is far cheaper to setup and run than a reactor on typical sized tanks.

ok thanks ill just stick with dosing pumps :)

[chuckreef]

Once you have dialed in the right bubble rate, set-up your internal CR pH probe with controller and started recirculation- you need to figure out the drip rate ...

The above is evidence of not properly using a Ca++ reactor. Hence, for me, it is not surprising, this individual has a negative oppinion (of Ca++ reactors).

I am currenlty using two Ca reactors on two tanks; one I have had for over ten years the other for four+. They both work great. Alk is dead stable. I often go six months without doing anything to them. IMO, if you get a good quality dual stage regualtor and a good needle valve (or the aquariumplants gizmo), you don't even need the pH probe/Ph controller.

The quote above reflects Ca++ reactor operation thinking from ten plus years ago. As dosing two/three part became common mainstream, I used it for a while. Then I thought to myself, why can't I run my Ca++ reactor like my dosing system. I.e., if I'm dosing 220 Ml each part a day more or less continuously, why can't my reactor do that (add roughly 500 Ml)?

So now, I don't use Ph Probes or controllers. I fill the Rx 3/4 full with media and begin recirculation. The I meticulously set the output flow rate failry high at 40 ml/min (at about a half gallon a day). Then and only then whn the flow is stable, I slowly bring on the CO2 adjusting it every three days until the rx and tank reaches equilibrium (at the target alk value). In essence, the rx is making a dilute two part solution at the exact rate needed. The high flow (higher than the old drip) provides a constant, non-fluctuating feed to the tank. It is not impacted by changes as the old drip aproach was. Its very easy to monthly measure the effluent (catch it in a measuring cup while timing with watch with a second hand) and adjust to 40 ml/min if it has changed. And without pH probes and controllers, there is nothing to go wrong there.

IMO, both dosing and ca++ reactors work.
IMO, ca++ reactors are less time consuming and more stable over the long run.

[hkgar]

The above is evidence of not properly using a Ca++ reactor. Hence, for me, it is not surprising, this individual has a negative oppinion (of Ca++ reactors).

I am currenlty using two Ca reactors on two tanks; one I have had for over ten years the other for four+. They both work great. Alk is dead stable. I often go six months without doing anything to them. IMO, if you get a good quality dual stage regualtor and a good needle valve (or the aquariumplants gizmo), you don't even need the pH probe/Ph controller.

The quote above reflects Ca++ reactor operation thinking from ten plus years ago. As dosing two/three part became common mainstream, I used it for a while. Then I thought to myself, why can't I run my Ca++ reactor like my dosing system. I.e., if I'm dosing 220 Ml each part a day more or less continuously, why can't my reactor do that (add roughly 500 Ml)?


So now, I don't use Ph Probes or controllers. I fill the Rx 3/4 full with media and begin recirculation. The I meticulously set the output flow rate failry high at 40 ml/min (at about a half gallon a day). Then and only then whn the flow is stable, I slowly bring on the CO2 adjusting it every three days until the rx and tank reaches equilibrium (at the target alk value). In essence, the rx is making a dilute two part solution at the exact rate needed. The high flow (higher than the old drip) provides a constant, non-fluctuating feed to the tank. It is not impacted by changes as the old drip aproach was. Its very easy to monthly measure the effluent (catch it in a measuring cup while timing with watch with a second hand) and adjust to 40 ml/min if it has changed. And without pH probes and controllers, there is nothing to go wrong there.

IMO, both dosing and ca++ reactors work.
IMO, ca++ reactors are less time consuming and more stable over the long run.


I am doing pretty much the same thing. I have a Cole-Parmer dosing pump feeding my reactor and therefore the tank receives a fixed amount based on the flow from the dosing pump which is 2.8 ml per minute. Significantly lower than your 40ml. Wouldn't increasing my flow rate that high cause a very significant and dangerous increase in ALK?

I have the AP gizmo to control co2 and currently adds 1 bubble every 4 seconds. I have a PH monitor/controller that keeps the ph between 3.5 and 6.7.

If I decrease the seconds per bubble will that make the ph more stable?

[drw94]

I have done both routes, and on smaller systems I prefer dosing, and larger systems i think Ca Rx work better. I have a 60 and dose using dosers. If you do go the route of dosing, get a good set of dosers. It saves the headache from beginning. I have used BRS dosers and Bubble Magus. My bubble magus is still hooked up because it does three solutions. BRS are good if you use an Apex type of controller. Good luck with it and don't worry if the solutions aren't dosed in the same volumn. To many factors to take into account.

[sirreal63]

the above is evidence of not properly using a ca++ reactor. Hence, for me, it is not surprising, this individual has a negative oppinion (of ca++ reactors).

I am currenlty using two ca reactors on two tanks; one i have had for over ten years the other for four+. They both work great. Alk is dead stable. I often go six months without doing anything to them. Imo, if you get a good quality dual stage regualtor and a good needle valve (or the aquariumplants gizmo), you don't even need the ph probe/ph controller.

The quote above reflects ca++ reactor operation thinking from ten plus years ago. As dosing two/three part became common mainstream, i used it for a while. Then i thought to myself, why can't i run my ca++ reactor like my dosing system. I.e., if i'm dosing 220 ml each part a day more or less continuously, why can't my reactor do that (add roughly 500 ml)?

So now, i don't use ph probes or controllers. I fill the rx 3/4 full with media and begin recirculation. The i meticulously set the output flow rate failry high at 40 ml/min (at about a half gallon a day). Then and only then whn the flow is stable, i slowly bring on the co2 adjusting it every three days until the rx and tank reaches equilibrium (at the target alk value). In essence, the rx is making a dilute two part solution at the exact rate needed. The high flow (higher than the old drip) provides a constant, non-fluctuating feed to the tank. It is not impacted by changes as the old drip aproach was. Its very easy to monthly measure the effluent (catch it in a measuring cup while timing with watch with a second hand) and adjust to 40 ml/min if it has changed. And without ph probes and controllers, there is nothing to go wrong there.

Imo, both dosing and ca++ reactors work.
Imo, ca++ reactors are less time consuming and more stable over the long run.


+1

[DHyslop]

I think the takeaway is you can be successful either way. The reactor is probably a better system, especially for larger tanks, but fully understanding the theory and practice of the device is necessary for success. You can therefore predict if a reactor would work for you by knowing how much intellectual effort you want to put into it.

[zigzag1]

We each need to find our own comfort zone in reef keeping. Methods, time, commitment, and opinions vary - really we as reefkeepers are the realy variable. :)

I use a Ca reactor, that's where my comfort zone is. Many consider a Ca reactor cheaper on larger systems over 100 gallons or so, due to media vs two-part costs. With the rising cost of electricity and the constantly running recirculation pump of a Ca reactor, I've begun to wonder where the payback really comes. Just thinking out loud really. :)

[zigzag1]

The above is evidence of not properly using a Ca++ reactor. Hence, for me, it is not surprising, this individual has a negative oppinion (of Ca++ reactors).

I am currenlty using two Ca reactors on two tanks; one I have had for over ten years the other for four+. They both work great. Alk is dead stable. I often go six months without doing anything to them. IMO, if you get a good quality dual stage regualtor and a good needle valve (or the aquariumplants gizmo), you don't even need the pH probe/Ph controller.

The quote above reflects Ca++ reactor operation thinking from ten plus years ago. As dosing two/three part became common mainstream, I used it for a while. Then I thought to myself, why can't I run my Ca++ reactor like my dosing system. I.e., if I'm dosing 220 Ml each part a day more or less continuously, why can't my reactor do that (add roughly 500 Ml)?

So now, I don't use Ph Probes or controllers. I fill the Rx 3/4 full with media and begin recirculation. The I meticulously set the output flow rate failry high at 40 ml/min (at about a half gallon a day). Then and only then whn the flow is stable, I slowly bring on the CO2 adjusting it every three days until the rx and tank reaches equilibrium (at the target alk value). In essence, the rx is making a dilute two part solution at the exact rate needed. The high flow (higher than the old drip) provides a constant, non-fluctuating feed to the tank. It is not impacted by changes as the old drip aproach was. Its very easy to monthly measure the effluent (catch it in a measuring cup while timing with watch with a second hand) and adjust to 40 ml/min if it has changed. And without pH probes and controllers, there is nothing to go wrong there.

IMO, both dosing and ca++ reactors work.
IMO, ca++ reactors are less time consuming and more stable over the long run.

I just re-read your post Chuck. I ran my Ca reactor without a pH probe and solenoid for a couple of years, and found it easy to do as well. It really isn't that difficult to monitor alkalinity and tune the reactor to match consumption pretty consistently. The funny thing is that I posted here when someone new to reactors asked about requiring a pH controller - and was told by multiple people that I was nuts, and bound to fail. Even though, running a Ca reactor is following the manufacturer instructions. Glad to hear it's working for you. I was successful this way too, although the fear mongers scared the new Ca reactor user off, I stuck to my guns on this method and tried to encourage them as much as possible. I recently added a pH probe and solenoid, but just as a failsafe. I only monitor the overall tank pH and turn off the CO2 if tank pH falls below 7.85 just for safety and peace of mind. Thanks for sharing your method though, glad to hear that I wasn't the only one to be successful this way. :thumbsup:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've always worried about folks just setting the pH on a CaCO3/CO2 reactor and then walking away. My concern is that pH drift as the probes gets out of calibration may become significant in terms of changing the alkalinity delivery to the aquarium. I would not be as concerned about using a needle vale to control CO2, but I suppose it has its issues as well.

That said, this is based on reading lots of experiences and the basic principles, not actual use, since I only use limewater for my reef tank. :)

[zigzag1]

Yes, no matter the method, even with a doser, periodic monitoring and adjustment always seems needed IME. Growth of corals, and other biologic processes including nitrification can affect alkalinity consumption, correct? I found that limewater was the least consistent of all methods long-term, due do its reliance on evaporation related to changes in humidity. I suppose limewater may be more consistent with a well-controlled and stable humidity provided by an advanced HVAC system. My home has ceiling cable heat and no central air, so being at the mercy of outside conditions may play a factor in my experience. :)

[tkeracer619]

the above is evidence of not properly using a ca++ reactor. Hence, for me, it is not surprising, this individual has a negative oppinion (of ca++ reactors).

I am currenlty using two ca reactors on two tanks; one i have had for over ten years the other for four+. They both work great. Alk is dead stable. I often go six months without doing anything to them. Imo, if you get a good quality dual stage regualtor and a good needle valve (or the aquariumplants gizmo), you don't even need the ph probe/ph controller.

The quote above reflects ca++ reactor operation thinking from ten plus years ago. As dosing two/three part became common mainstream, i used it for a while. Then i thought to myself, why can't i run my ca++ reactor like my dosing system. I.e., if i'm dosing 220 ml each part a day more or less continuously, why can't my reactor do that (add roughly 500 ml)?

So now, i don't use ph probes or controllers. I fill the rx 3/4 full with media and begin recirculation. The i meticulously set the output flow rate failry high at 40 ml/min (at about a half gallon a day). Then and only then whn the flow is stable, i slowly bring on the co2 adjusting it every three days until the rx and tank reaches equilibrium (at the target alk value). In essence, the rx is making a dilute two part solution at the exact rate needed. The high flow (higher than the old drip) provides a constant, non-fluctuating feed to the tank. It is not impacted by changes as the old drip aproach was. Its very easy to monthly measure the effluent (catch it in a measuring cup while timing with watch with a second hand) and adjust to 40 ml/min if it has changed. And without ph probes and controllers, there is nothing to go wrong there.

Imo, both dosing and ca++ reactors work.
Imo, ca++ reactors are less time consuming and more stable over the long run.


+2