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View Full Version : Dosing pump and kalk (not in topoff water)


iwishtofish
01/26/2012, 10:39 AM
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with all my repeated questions - sorry! I am hoping this solution will work for my low-consumption (mostly alk) tank:

I evaporate 2 - 2.5 gallons a day, too much, I fear, to use kalk in my topoff water. How about if I buy a Drew's Doser, or BRS dosing pump (1.5m/min or 1.2 ml/min), and use it on a digital timer to dose kalk from a separate reservoir?

I'm hoping to both raise pH slightly and maintain Ca and Alk levels.

iwishtofish
01/26/2012, 11:02 AM
Sorry, working with 100g of water...

nanojg
01/26/2012, 11:04 AM
I would not dose limewater unless it was through an ato. If fully saturated limewater is too much, then just dilute the limewater. Maybe start with 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water or even less if you feel the need.

iwishtofish
01/26/2012, 11:11 AM
I would not dose limewater unless it was through an ato. If fully saturated limewater is too much, then just dilute the limewater. Maybe start with 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water or even less if you feel the need.

Thanks, nanojg - but can you tell me why? I'm also concerned that variations in my evaporation rate will cause big swings in my levels if I dose through the ATO.

nanojg
01/26/2012, 11:17 AM
Less can go wrong, personally I only like to dose controlled doses in very little amounts (like 2 part at around 100 ml each a day). If you do a controlled dose of a gallon or more you have a greater potential of things going wrong. Although in a 100 gallon tank dosing 1 gallon of fully saturated limewater slowly throughout the day you probably wont have any problems.

EDIT: also i dont worry about smallish flucuations in alk and calc as most people, especially calc.

jimmyj7090
01/26/2012, 11:20 AM
I look at it the opposite way.

If you have kalk connected to an ATO and the system loses water somehow (leak, skimmer overflow, remove water with frags going out and forget to replace that water) then the ATO could overdose the tank with kalk.

Personally I run a dosing pump that slowly adds my daily kalk volume throughout the night but is not hooked up to ATO.

Playa-1
01/26/2012, 11:23 AM
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with all my repeated questions - sorry! I am hoping this solution will work for my low-consumption (mostly alk) tank:

I evaporate 2 - 2.5 gallons a day, too much, I fear, to use kalk in my topoff water. How about if I buy a Drew's Doser, or BRS dosing pump (1.5m/min or 1.2 ml/min), and use it on a digital timer to dose kalk from a separate reservoir?

I'm hoping to both raise pH slightly and maintain Ca and Alk levels.

You can use a dosing pump and a Kalk solution to replace your estimated evaporation throughout the day. You could set it up with a timer or a controller to deliver measured small doses on a regular basis that would equal your average daily evap or set it up on a simple drip system.

I wouldn't use Kalk in a standard ATO system due to potential overdose, but I can think of several ways to set it up and still leave an ATO in place. I use a controller and a dosing pump and it works just fine.

djkms
01/26/2012, 11:26 AM
I dose limewater with a dosing pump (litermeter). It doses 3.5 liters throughout the day and my alk and calcium are rock steady. I use a tunze ATO to make up the difference in evaporation. Works great!

Edit:
Jimmyj is exactly right. I had my limewater hooked up through my ATO and I had a disaster. I was doing work in the tank and took out a few big rocks and walked away for about 5 minutes. I came back to a slurry of kalkwasser in my tank. I lost a couple nice chalice colonies after that episode. Needless to say I have been using a dosing pump ever since then. It was over a $1,000 mistake.

iwishtofish
01/26/2012, 11:36 AM
Thanks, everyone, for all the answers! I think I'm going to give it a try!

Either of the two pumps mentioned OK? BRS has pretty good prices on either right now.

nanojg
01/26/2012, 11:45 AM
I like the BRS pumps, just make sure and get the 50ml instead of the 1.1 ml

tmz
01/26/2012, 11:57 AM
I dose limewater from a still reservoir with a dosing pump set to a number of liters per day to approximately match top off needs.. A built in timer on the litermeter 3 I use breaks preset amount into 150 equal increments over 24 hours. seasonal variations in evaporation are accountdfor with a little extra ro water to the sump.

iwishtofish
01/26/2012, 01:12 PM
Any particular reason it is desired to match kalk dosing rate with evaporative rate, if two separate pumps are in use (one kalk, one topoff)?

Playa-1
01/26/2012, 01:29 PM
I just match mine with evap rates so that I don't have to use a separate topoff system. Two separate pumps with one on a RO topoff and One on a Kalk reservoir could be set up to work very nicely ;)

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/26/2012, 05:24 PM
Yes, convenience is the primary reason to combine limewater in an ATO. That's what I do. :)

iwishtofish
01/26/2012, 05:48 PM
Ok, understood! :)

iwishtofish
01/27/2012, 10:30 AM
I like the BRS pumps, just make sure and get the 50ml instead of the 1.1 ml

nanojg, why the faster pump? I'd like to have the kalk system separate from my ATO system. In that case, would the slower pump be better to drip a concentrated kalk solution periodically throughout the day?

nanojg
01/27/2012, 10:33 AM
The 1.1 pumps are really only for adding 2 part solutions. The 50ml pump is PLENTY slow enough to add fully saturated limewater (2 teaspoons/gallon). The 1.1 pump would have to be going almost all the time to add a noticable amount of limewater, which would wear the pump (and mainly the tubing) out very fast.

iwishtofish
01/27/2012, 11:51 AM
The 1.1 pumps are really only for adding 2 part solutions. The 50ml pump is PLENTY slow enough to add fully saturated limewater (2 teaspoons/gallon). The 1.1 pump would have to be going almost all the time to add a noticable amount of limewater, which would wear the pump (and mainly the tubing) out very fast.

Ok, thanks. I know it is possible to dose too much limewater too fast, but is it possible to add too much limewater to a tank over the course of a day (raising alk/calcium too much)? I guess testing is necessary to avoid this? I did read Randy's limewater article just now, but seem to have missed this...

I'm just trying to figure out how I'd program a pump, if there are any timers available that are that flexible.

reefgeezer
01/27/2012, 12:18 PM
It is possible to dose too much even when dosed slowly. However, unless you added an unreasonable quantity in a given period, the result would be steadily rising calcium and alkalinity rather than a big swing. Many people start with a low concentration (like 1 tsp/gallon of top-off water) and work up to a level that meets the demand. IMO, some experimentation is required, but if you start low and go slow, it is safe and easy to use. FWIW, I use a 50ML per minute BRS dosing pump and a digital timer. The system is not as precise as Tom's but it seems to work. It doses almost 1.5 gallons in 12 sessions per day, mostly at night.

rlman41299
01/27/2012, 12:45 PM
i am using a BM triple doser for my kalk dose. i have used the ATO method and had a disasterwhich could have been avoided if i used a separate pump with a timer for the ato but was gravity fed.
for me th BM doser works wonders for you can program it in how much and how long you want to dose our kalk. right now i am dosing 1200 ml/24 hr period and my my parameters are spot on. the rest of the pump is dosing mag in small amount and the other is empty.

iwishtofish
01/27/2012, 12:53 PM
It is possible to dose too much even when dosed slowly. However, unless you added an unreasonable quantity in a given period, the result would be steadily rising calcium and alkalinity rather than a big swing. Many people start with a low concentration (like 1 tsp/gallon of top-off water) and work up to a level that meets the demand. IMO, some experimentation is required, but if you start low and go slow, it is safe and easy to use. FWIW, I use a 50ML per minute BRS dosing pump and a digital timer. The system is not as precise as Tom's but it seems to work. It doses almost 1.5 gallons in 12 sessions per day, mostly at night.

Sounds about how I'd like to do it. I'm having trouble finding a good timer. Can you recommend one?

i am using a BM triple doser for my kalk dose. i have used the ATO method and had a disasterwhich could have been avoided if i used a separate pump with a timer for the ato but was gravity fed.
for me th BM doser works wonders for you can program it in how much and how long you want to dose our kalk. right now i am dosing 1200 ml/24 hr period and my my parameters are spot on. the rest of the pump is dosing mag in small amount and the other is empty.

I'd love to get multiple pumps with a built in timer! Just a one-pump setup is a stretch right now.

nanojg
01/27/2012, 01:15 PM
I have used the cheap mechanical timers from home depot with the pins or whatever that you insert into the rotating clock that turn the socket on/off as many times as you want. They are very reliable. Now I use my RKL though.

like this http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685881/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

reefgeezer
01/27/2012, 04:14 PM
Sounds about how I'd like to do it. I'm having trouble finding a good timer. Can you recommend one?

I bought a timer at Lowes for around $20. It's an Intermec DT27 digital timer. Kinda hard to set, but works great after that's done. Even has battery back-up.

bertoni
01/27/2012, 08:52 PM
I used the $20 timers from the hardware store, the electronic type.

3scoot3
01/28/2012, 02:02 PM
i use kalk in my top off 3 teaspoons per 5 gal. works great best thing i have done so far and i also evaporate about 2 gals a day.

iwishtofish
01/28/2012, 04:31 PM
I have used the cheap mechanical timers from home depot with the pins or whatever that you insert into the rotating clock that turn the socket on/off as many times as you want. They are very reliable. Now I use my RKL though.

like this http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100685881/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I bought a timer at Lowes for around $20. It's an Intermec DT27 digital timer. Kinda hard to set, but works great after that's done. Even has battery back-up.

I used the $20 timers from the hardware store, the electronic type.

Ok, thanks!

i use kalk in my top off 3 teaspoons per 5 gal. works great best thing i have done so far and i also evaporate about 2 gals a day.

Wow - what kind of pump do you use for your ATO? Is it a really slow one?