Cycle Won't Start? Should I Spike the Tank with Ammonia?

[Aegeon]

I'm trying to cycle my new 25g cube, but I don't know exactly what's going on.

I've had it running for almost 5 days now with the live rock in, lights out, no skimmer. I check the water params daily using Salifert kits, but as of yet I've seen no NH3 spike of any kind. Every day so far:

SG: 1.025
Temp: 78 deg
NH3: 0
NO2:0
NO3:0

The 2nd and 3rd days the ammonia level might have reached 0.25, but just barely. Now everything's back to 0.

The tank is empty except for the LR and a few hitchhiker snails and a bristle worm that seem perfectly content. The LR was very clean and came from a stable softie frag tank where it lived for 6+ months. It was out of water wrapped in wet paper towels for less than an hour between it's original tank and mine, so I didn't expect much die-off, but none at all?

I've been given conflicting advice, so I thought I'd ask here. Some tell me that there may be no cycle at all, and if all my params remain at 0 for 7 days (2 more from today), to go ahead with stocking.

Others tell me to try to force a cycle by adding fish food/shrimp or similar to "spike" the system with an ammonia source and see what happens.

What do you guys think?

Also, if I start stocking, should I still start with a CUC? There's no algae in the tank that I can see, no diatom bloom, etc., so I'm not entirely sure what they'd eat. I supposed I could feed them, but it seems a bit counter-productive to feed your clean-up crew....

Any advice appreciated. If you're interested, my build thread is here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1860876

Thanks!

[nanojg]

You shouldnt have a cycle when using LR from an existing established tank. Take it slow and start adding things if you wish. I would start with a fish.

[Aegeon]

You shouldnt have a cycle when using LR from an existing established tank. Take it slow and start adding things if you wish. I would start with a fish.

So you think add a fish first, then CUC after once algae appears from the fish food/waste?

[jerpa]

I believe you should feed than tank for a few days while still monitoring your levels. It is likely that the rock suffered little to no die off and you are okay to start stocking. The fish food only starts a cycle in a tank without established bacterial populations. It won't start a cycle if your live rock is already cured, it will just feed the bacteria that are already present. After a couple days with no ammonia spike I would add the CUC and go from there.

[nanojg]

Thats what I would do. How many fish do you plan on adding, what kinds?

I think 1 goby and two clown fish are perfect for that size of a tank, thats what I have on my 24 gallon.

Try to add the least aggressive fish first, so that that fish can get comfortable before the aggresive fish start claiming territories (clowns last!)

[Augustus]

I wouldn't be so quick to add fish. The LR has nitrifying bacteria on it, that is why it costs so much. If there is no ammonia in the tank for it to eat it will start to die off. As it dies off the remaining nitrifying bacteria will start to eat the dying bacteria and then start to spread and convert this to nitrites. Once this happens the bacteria that converts nitrites to nitrates has something to eat and it will start to spread. This is a slow process and you really want the bateria to spread around your tank before putting anything in. Adding a fish too soon will cause an increase in ammonia the tank cant handle and kill your fish.

I recommend tossing in a dead shrimp to help boost the process. The dead shrimp will provide ammonia for the bacteria to eat and help prevent die off of existing bacteria that would otherwise starve.

The nitrogen cycle takes 2-4 weeks or sometimes longer. In your tank a month should be the max. But even then I would not add fish right away. I would then add your clean up crew and let the bacteria continue to build up for a few weeks. I know its no fun but this is a hobby that benefits from patience.

Good luck and be patient ;)

Edit: Spelling

[Aegeon]

I think the current plan is for a pair of Ocellaris Clowns, a goby/shrimp pair (Orange Stripe, Wheeler's, or High-Fin Red-banded maybe?) and possibly a Royal Gramma. I'd also like a porcelain crab in there eventually.

We'll see where the tank goes and what it can handle as it matures.

[Playa-1]

I think you're good to go. Just proceed with caution and go slow. The clean up crew to be added as need and start small.

[nanojg]

I think the current plan is for a pair of Ocellaris Clowns, a goby/shrimp pair (Orange Stripe, Wheeler's, or High-Fin Red-banded maybe?) and possibly a Royal Gramma. I'd also like a porcelain crab in there eventually.

We'll see where the tank goes and what it can handle as it matures.

Id add the shrimp/goby pair first, now if you want to.

[f3honda4me]

I got 8O pounds of LR from a well established tank from a local reefer who was selling it. I never saw any ammonia. Eventually I dumped in some ammonia. Enough to read 1.0 or so. The next day I had 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and like 2 nitrate. Tank has been great ever since. Nitrate is even almost gone too now.

[00Warpig00]

I got 8O pounds of LR from a well established tank from a local reefer who was selling it. I never saw any ammonia. Eventually I dumped in some ammonia. Enough to read 1.0 or so. The next day I had 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and like 2 nitrate. Tank has been great ever since. Nitrate is even almost gone too now.


I think I would do this. Add enough pure ammonia to give yourself at least a reading of 1ppm on the ammonia test and give it a day or two while testing to see what happens. If your ammonia gets processed you're good to go. Adding a raw shrimp will give you ammonia when it starts to decompose too, either should allow you to PROOVE your ammonia is being processed.

Nick

[Agu]

First of all turn on the lights and skimmer. See how the tank reacts running the way you're going to run it.

I don't care for the dead shrimp approach to stimulate a cycle. You overwhelm the tank and it's nitrifying bacteria. Add small amounts of food daily and if ammonia is still zilch after a few days you're good to go.

[tkeracer619]

Like others have said cured live rock will get things going fast. What you don't want to do is assume ammonia is everything. Generally you see a spike in both ammonia and nitrite then see some nitrates. I would add food as suggested and let it do its thing for a week or two and then add a fish that has been quarantined.