please help...copper question

[danderso]

I have dosed my QT with Cupramine. I have a pvc elbow in there that I want to use in my reef tank. Will it be safe or will it leach copper now.

[thegrun]

For the few cents a new fitting costs, I wouldn't risk reusing it. I doubt it would be an issue, but I would sleep better not having it in my tank.

[MrTuskfish]

PVC, silicone, etc. will not absorb or leach Cupramine. This is an old myth that just won't die. These substances are approved for human food & water use; anything that absorbed toxins would not be. MY PVC fittings have been dosed countless times with cupramine and, after removing copper with Cuprisorb, Cu reading is always zero. Check the FAQ here, you'll find the answer.http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

[xCry0x]

Why risk it? The downside is not worth trying to prove a point..

[MrTuskfish]

Why risk it? The downside is not worth trying to prove a point..

Really no big deal either way; but there's nothing to risk. Not trying to prove a point, just common sense. Whats next, throwing out QT heaters? Many things will absorb copper and many won't. Just learn which is which. HOB filters are made from a plastic similar to PVC; do they go too?
I have a strict rule that nothing ever goes from the QT to the DT, except the livestock. But almost all normal QT stuff can be re-used; with common sense. I don't re-use filter sponges, because I cycle them in my DT and don't re-use bags of copper-eliminating media ( carbon, Cuprisorb) until they've completely dried out and some time has passed. The amount of copper "absorbed' by anything plastic would be so tiny that it couldn't bother anything anyhow. BTW, Instant Ocean, by far the #1 selling salt, contains some copper.
I'm making a big deal out of a tiny issue, I know. But using a QT is vital (IMO & IME) and the easier we make it, the more it will get used.

[sporto0]

I agree with Mr Tuskfish here, it's common sense, plus even if it could absorb heavy metals it would be such a small amount it would have no effect at all.

[bnumair]

i dont think it will but why take a chance for less than $1 part u can purchase anytime.

[sponger0]

I have PVC in my qt that has been in there since Ive set it up. I had to treat my clown fish when i first got it with cupramine. I then used cuprasorb and havent lost any fish. So youll be fine

[MrTuskfish]

I have PVC in my qt that has been in there since Ive set it up. I had to treat my clown fish when i first got it with cupramine. I then used cuprasorb and havent lost any fish. So youll be fine

Of course. My 55 gal QT has seen well over 100 doses of Cupramine since I moved. Same PVC and everything else. Copper tests zero. I don't care if someone replaces PVC; its the copper paranoia and mis-information that keeps me on this thread.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Of course. My 55 gal QT has seen well over 100 doses of Cupramine since I moved. Same PVC and everything else. Copper tests zero. I don't care if someone replaces PVC; its the copper paranoia and mis-information that keeps me on this thread.

I guess it is the weird logic that you used that attracted me. :D

I'm not sure I understand the reasons behind the question and why one would want to reuse the same elbow in the actual reef tank, but aside from that, I'm certain I disagree with the reasoning that because something might be food safe (I don't think PVC from the hardware store is anyway, but that's beside the point), that by no means implies that if it is exposed to something actually toxic, that it wouldn't absorb and then release that toxin. That makes no sense at all.

All it means is that on its own the pipe does not release its own toxic compounds. And even more complicating is that something that is suitable for drinking is by no means suitable for a reef. Potable water with 1.0 ppm copper, for example, is potable per the FDA and would kill much of a reef tank.

So I simply disagree with your reasons. I am confident that some toxins could absorb onto PVC to an extent that if you licked it, you would be sick if not ready to die. Palytoxin might be an example.

I do think that a piece of PVC could be cleaned to be suitable for reuse, however, if all it had exposed to it was cupramine.

[sponger0]

I guess it is the weird logic that you used that attracted me. :D

I'm not sure I understand the reasons behind the question and why one would want to reuse the same elbow in the actual reef tank, but aside from that, I'm certain I disagree with the reasoning that because something might be food safe (I don't think PVC from the hardware store is anyway, but that's beside the point), that by no means implies that if it is exposed to something actually toxic, that it wouldn't absorb and then release that toxin. That makes no sense at all.

All it means is that on its own the pipe does not release its own toxic compounds. And even more complicating is that something that is suitable for drinking is by no means suitable for a reef. Potable water with 1.0 ppm copper, for example, is potable per the FDA and would kill much of a reef tank.

So I simply disagree with your reasons. I am confident that some toxins could absorb onto PVC to an extent that if you licked it, you would be sick if not ready to die. Palytoxin might be an example.

I do think that a piece of PVC could be cleaned to be suitable for reuse, however, if all it had exposed to it was cupramine.

The reasoning for the question from the OP is very viable. But not for good reasons. I myself, once jumping in reef tanks was warned of copper. And many people feared dear life for it. So the reasoning is invalid but the threat is, especially a newbie. Ive met those who wouldnt buy a tank from me for many insane reasons.

And I dont think someone should be sane if they plan on licking PVC...just my thought on the matter lol

But once again, there should be no reason you can just leave a PVC pipe in a QT even after copper treatment and without washing it

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The reasoning for the question from the OP is very viable. But not for good reasons. I myself, once jumping in reef tanks was warned of copper. And many people feared dear life for it.

FWIW, I've encountered a number of folks who had tanks beginning to fail and could not figure out why until using a polyfilter showed blue from copper. They sometimes could figure out the source (like a brass fitting where they did not realize it), and sometimes not.

[MrTuskfish]

This is the 2nd thread I've mis-read today. I assumed the PVC was being re-used in the QT, as a shelter fixture. My info on leaching came from a GE tech support guys a while back; it started with silicone not absorbing copper and he gave me more info than I really wanted about anything labeled 'safe for using with human foods" ; or the basic bureaucratic equivalent.

[Saltydrip]

I was always under the assumption that PVC was used due to the fact it does not absorb chemicals the way other plastics do and that's why it was chosen as the material to replace metallic pipes. I'm not a rocket surgeon like some of y'all so steer me straight.

[sponger0]

Im by no means an expert...I was giving my experience.

[bnumair]

my question again: why take a chance and put a 50 cent pvc pipe in thousands of dollars of investment and time and effort.
if this pvc pipe cost was in hundreds or thousands i can understand saving it. one can easily go buy another pvc pipe for less than $1 and place it in DT and never have to worry about of any cooper contamination.

[Saltydrip]

my question again: why take a chance and put a 50 cent pvc pipe in thousands of dollars of investment and time and effort.
if this pvc pipe cost was in hundreds or thousands i can understand saving it. one can easily go buy another pvc pipe for less than $1 and place it in DT and never have to worry about of any cooper contamination.

I agree. I wouldn't risk it.

The curiosity of weather or not it does absorb and release chemicals is still a good question.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

PVC obviously isn't impermeable to chemicals under all situations. An example is the purple primer. Once the solvent is gone, the purple dye remains and is quite strongly adhered/soaked in. People stain PVC all the time to make cheap furniture, etc. :)

[MrTuskfish]

PVC obviously isn't impermeable to chemicals under all situations. An example is the purple primer. Once the solvent is gone, the purple dye remains and is quite strongly adhered/soaked in. People stain PVC all the time to make cheap furniture, etc. :)

But isn't "staining" and "absorbing" quite different. Silicone sealant will be stained by meth blue, but cutting the silicone will show that it is only "skin deep". So, I assume the quantity of meth blue would be insignificant.