Questions about my mantis set up

[dnh828]

I am setting up a mantis shrimp tank and have read all relevant guides here and at wetwebmedia etc, but am always welcome to criticism and input.

I want to keep a peacock mantis shrimp and my current plan is to use a 55 gallon acrylic tank split in half with a movable divider (acrylic with a foam ridge to hold it in place). I would like to use the other half of the tank for something else in the future, maybe just as a quarantine or extra tank space but this is not a requirement if the mantis shrimp needs the space. I am using a mixture of sand and crushed coral about 2 inches deep.

Would the 24x13 substrate space be sufficient or should I expect a full grown peacock to want the entire run of the tank?

Additionally,for filtration I was going to use a canister filter for mechanical and chemical (chemipure) filtration and good seasoned live rock as the biological filtration. I am expecting to do biweekly water changes, but should I worry about getting a HOB skimmer? I am prepared to do weekly or more often cleanouts of the canister, but was wondering if anyone had tried a similar setup.

I am keeping the tank ambient lit. There seems to be a lot of light in the surrounding room and I have a simple studio lamp that I can direct at the tank if I need more light. I expect the mantis to be happier in the lower light.

Lastly, I have seen some mixed messages about food. I have seen some reports that Mantis shrimp can be switched immediately to frozen/fresh seafood if you are persistent but I also want to be prepared to buy live food if need be.

About me: Have kept various reef tanks successfully for many years and I always insist on only keeping animals that I can keep both healthy and happy. I welcome any criticism and want to be sure I keep this animal alive, healthy and engaged for as long as possible.

Thank you.

[gozermantis]

First off Welcome to Reef Central! Now on to the tank for room I would not divide it but give the peacock all of the tank.. I have my peacock in a 20g long and plan on giving her a 40g breeder in a couple of months to herself. I suggest 4" of substrate IMO I have that in my tank and she has dug out 3" of it in her burrow. Lighting sounds good and a desk lamp aimed at the tank if needed sounds fine too. On canister filter I have never ran one with a mantis so I can't really add any input on that. Im running two 20g rated HOB filters on my 20g long for her and that's it. I feed my female freeze dried krill and live fiddler crabs and hermits. She like all of them! I prefer live food cause it keeps them active and feeling more natural like there habitat..keeping there raptorial appendages in shape and in use. Just make sure you have some live rock she can burrow in and make a nice home in i usually use 3-4 pieces and make a tiny sturdy cave with that is already pretty deep in the substrate if not touching the bottom of the tank so she can't burrow under the bottom and collapse it. Plus the more substrate the more room she can make. I also use coral rubble for her to build with and fill holes or make walls with..hope this helps!
-Adam

[rattler_mt]

in addition to what Adam said bout substrate and live rock....prolly a good idea to give the mantis a bunch of rubble sized building material....ive given both mine loads of seashells and they are constantly using them for building....

on feeding.....right now mine live mainly on frozen/thawed krill fed every other day and a couple hermit crabs and snails tossed in once or twice a month to keep their raptoral appendage exercised so the muscle doesnt atrophy......seems to be working for me so far though its only been a couple months.....also found a couple potential bad guy liverock hitchhiker crabs in the reef tanks that have been tossed to them aswell....

[dnh828]

I will be adding to the substrate, LFS is ordering me a 4" mantis and it they will be giving it to me week after next.

I will be making the divider movable and removeable, and after your advice Adam I will be trying out having the tank 3/4 for the mantis and 1/4 for quarantine/live food storage. If the mantis doesn't seem engaged or like it has enough space, I will happily remove the divider.

Rattler, thank you for the advice on substrate. I will be adding more coarse material per Adam and will be adding some live rock rubble of appropriate sizes to let the mantis have building material. I would imagine my canister set up is equivalent to hang on the back filters (I chose the canister because I had a cheap used one available, it is dead silent and seems to be doing a great job).

Thank you very much for the advice! I will post pictures/video when I get the stomatopod in.

[Jacwil]

Welcome!

I honestly would forgo the divider. It really wouldn't be a quarantine side due to the fact that a real QT tank is completely separate from the main system so you can by definition, quarantine the specimen...monitor, chk for sickness, parasites etc and treat if needed.

As far as keeping live food on that side, why not just keep live food in the full tank? It will eat when hungry.

[Michael cicco]

i had 1 and it was the worst thing u can have in a reef tank alone o maybe but what a pain in the ***

[dnh828]

Jacwil, the issue with keeping live food in the tank is I hope to induce Pavlovian response to my presence as the giver of food. Simply putting a feast in the tank means the mantis will eat whenever he wants and therefore would be less interactive. I'm not expecting my mantis to react, but giving the thing food will be the main way of interacting with this otherwise shy animal.

I also know that this won't be a "true" quarantine space. It will be in water in which copper or other medications would kill the stomatopod. However having cycled tank space that is sequestered in which I could throw injured fish and keep live food seems like a good idea. I could keep a large population of crabs or shrimp happy in there and it would require no extra care. Again, the barrier is temporary. Especially as the shrimp grows I will likely simply remove the barrier, but the extra tank space would be useful on a short term basis.

Frozen krill has been mentioned, but what about human potable foods with added selcon (i.e. table shrimp, mussels and clams)? Would krill be more nutritious/potable/desirable? A big bag of frozen shell on shrimp would be cheaper per ounce and with added selcon would seem nutritious enough, but I would love to hear more about food preferences for peacock mantis shrimp.

[Kharn]

If you really want to watch your mantis feed and capture it on camera then you can't just dump a whole bunch of live food in the tank you need to 'nearly' starve the animal that way everytime food hits the waters surface it will go for it.

I myself am in this position (hence the lack of pics lately).......

So about 2-3weeks ago I bought about 2 dozen various fish, cardinals, chromiis, clowns, etc. and dumped them all in my tank to sort of take the pressure off myself with feeding the larger spearers the plan worked and I haven't had to feed my large spearers myself for weeks now.

BUT

Having said that I have NEVER seen them feed(since mass adding the 2 dozen fish), they have become a LOT more reclusive and do not interact with me anymore...I do know that they are eating because every second/third day 1, 2 or 3 fish are missing so they are eating but there doing all the action at night/when I am not there.

Initially I was adding the fish 1 by 1 and the large spearers really went for it specifically Leviathan but I got a feeling back then Leviathan was still very much wild hence why he would go to such lengths to capture and kill his prey going so far as to forgo the safety of his den to chase the poor fish before finally nailing it and dragging it down to his den.

So I learnt a lesson =) don't be lazy, feed them 1 by 1 and you will be more rewarded =D

[dnh828]

If you really want to watch your mantis feed and capture it on camera then you can't just dump a whole bunch of live food in the tank you need to 'nearly' starve the animal that way everytime food hits the waters surface it will go for it.

I myself am in this position (hence the lack of pics lately).......

So about 2-3weeks ago I bought about 2 dozen various fish, cardinals, chromiis, clowns, etc. and dumped them all in my tank to sort of take the pressure off myself with feeding the larger spearers the plan worked and I haven't had to feed my large spearers myself for weeks now.

BUT

Having said that I have NEVER seen them feed(since mass adding the 2 dozen fish), they have become a LOT more reclusive and do not interact with me anymore...I do know that they are eating because every second/third day 1, 2 or 3 fish are missing so they are eating but there doing all the action at night/when I am not there.

Initially I was adding the fish 1 by 1 and the large spearers really went for it specifically Leviathan but I got a feeling back then Leviathan was still very much wild hence why he would go to such lengths to capture and kill his prey going so far as to forgo the safety of his den to chase the poor fish before finally nailing it and dragging it down to his den.

So I learnt a lesson =) don't be lazy, feed them 1 by 1 and you will be more rewarded =D

That is very informative, and something that I was worrying about. I know that smashers/spearers naturally have different levels of activity due to their hunting style, but it is very helpful for someone to relate how reclusive stomatopods can become after having food available to simply graze on.

[TundraGuy]

I think you on to a very nice set up. If you’re really trying to induce a “Pavlovian response” then you’re going about it the right way. Have you thought about setting up a sump? The reason I ask is mantis with their preternatural vision having a divider will just stimulate the shrimp to strike the divider. Unless of cores you are not going to use clear. But with a sump you could set up a fuge area for your CUC/feeders and just pluck them out when you ring the dinner bell.

How is the tank going to be set up in the room? Is it going to be along a wall or can I suggest you go peninsula? With a peninsula set up you could just make the tank an AIO hiding the filtration and “quarantine” behind a false wall something like this could be cool: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223234. This is just a suggestion. But with this kind of a set up on 55 you would not have to crack open a canister filter (that becomes a big chore). I also like that you could mount it coming off the wall so 3 sided viewing area. Or you could still place it on the wall like normal. I am not a big fan of canisters in salt water tanks. The idea of having to crack open a canister on the weekend rates up there with mowing my neighbor’s lawn. Sure I could do it but I’d rather not.

I think you have thought this tank out very well. Try and make this tank as hassle free as possible. I can’t wait to see your pix. One thing no one has put this up yet, I use pvc for the animals to make a cave in. You can use different pieces and widths. If your mantis finds something else to make a home in you can remove the pvc. My mantis broke a hole in a plastic skull and has made this his home for the last 3 years or so. But when I first got him he lived in side a sharpie marker lid (he was so tiny). Now he’s bigger than the lid.

[Kharn]

Something that should also be taken into account is the following and another experience.

As far as feeding your "smasher(s)" live HARD BODIED prey (aka harmits snails) for the sole purpose of ensuring that there appendages don't "deteriorate" is a myth as far as I am concerned because for a long time I did NOT feed ay of my smashers "hard bodied" prey and none of them showed signs of any sort of "appendage dysfunction/malfunction or loss of usage" WHY?

Because they still used there appendages on virtually EVERYTHING else I mean it's not what they use for hunting and eating only in-fact if you did the maths they would probably spend more time using there weapons on excavation rather then any form of hunting (in an aquarium).

You should see the plastic species containers I temporarily store my smashers in during cleans.....absolutely mutilated/bashed!!! I will have to replace a couple soon (at least till my new system is up) (stupid Maximus thinks he owns the joint! although he kinda does in his tank xD)

So yeah in short feeding smashers hard bodied food is a myth in terms of appendage health/usage however live food is always......interesting to watch (coming from a spearer fan :rolleyes: )

Hope this helps xD

[dnh828]

I think you on to a very nice set up. If you’re really trying to induce a “Pavlovian response” then you’re going about it the right way. Have you thought about setting up a sump? The reason I ask is mantis with their preternatural vision having a divider will just stimulate the shrimp to strike the divider. Unless of cores you are not going to use clear. But with a sump you could set up a fuge area for your CUC/feeders and just pluck them out when you ring the dinner bell.

How is the tank going to be set up in the room? Is it going to be along a wall or can I suggest you go peninsula? With a peninsula set up you could just make the tank an AIO hiding the filtration and “quarantine” behind a false wall something like this could be cool: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223234. This is just a suggestion. But with this kind of a set up on 55 you would not have to crack open a canister filter (that becomes a big chore). I also like that you could mount it coming off the wall so 3 sided viewing area. Or you could still place it on the wall like normal. I am not a big fan of canisters in salt water tanks. The idea of having to crack open a canister on the weekend rates up there with mowing my neighbor’s lawn. Sure I could do it but I’d rather not.

I think you have thought this tank out very well. Try and make this tank as hassle free as possible. I can’t wait to see your pix. One thing no one has put this up yet, I use pvc for the animals to make a cave in. You can use different pieces and widths. If your mantis finds something else to make a home in you can remove the pvc. My mantis broke a hole in a plastic skull and has made this his home for the last 3 years or so. But when I first got him he lived in side a sharpie marker lid (he was so tiny). Now he’s bigger than the lid.

I would have loved to do something like this, but the 55 gallon aquarium is made of 1/4 inch acrylic. It has a lot of bowing, but the joints and seams are all perfect. This material is still vastly stronger to sharp peak force than glass but it makes cutting a square insert and attaching it with silicon nearly impossible. I had to cut a piece of acrylic and then rim it with foam. My plan to make the barrier opaque is to use rough grit sandpaper dry and cloud up the acrylic on purpose. As an FYI for anyone reading this, if I was doing this same thing again intending to divide a tank I would either buy thicker acrylic or glass.

Something that should also be taken into account is the following and another experience.

As far as feeding your "smasher(s)" live HARD BODIED prey (aka harmits snails) for the sole purpose of ensuring that there appendages don't "deteriorate" is a myth as far as I am concerned because for a long time I did NOT feed ay of my smashers "hard bodied" prey and none of them showed signs of any sort of "appendage dysfunction/malfunction or loss of usage" WHY?

Because they still used there appendages on virtually EVERYTHING else I mean it's not what they use for hunting and eating only in-fact if you did the maths they would probably spend more time using there weapons on excavation rather then any form of hunting (in an aquarium).

You should see the plastic species containers I temporarily store my smashers in during cleans.....absolutely mutilated/bashed!!! I will have to replace a couple soon (at least till my new system is up) (stupid Maximus thinks he owns the joint! although he kinda does in his tank xD)

So yeah in short feeding smashers hard bodied food is a myth in terms of appendage health/usage however live food is always......interesting to watch (coming from a spearer fan :rolleyes: )

Hope this helps xD

That is interesting and actually makes a lot of sense. I had indeed heard that the raptorial appendages can atrophy, perhaps this is only with certain species or circumstances then. I will be feeding hard shelled prey, however, at least as much for the mantis's benefit as my own. I think the way they hunt is fascinating and definitely want to observe it, but I never planned on feeding live food exclusively. Thanks for your input.

[Gonodactylus]

You probably heard that it is a good idea to provide armored prey to gonodactyloids from me. That's the story I've been peddling for years. I guess Kharn finally figured out that I was getting a kickback from gastropod and hermit collectors.

Roy

[dnh828]

You probably heard that it is a good idea to provide armored prey to gonodactyloids from me. That's the story I've been peddling for years. I guess Kharn finally figured out that I was getting a kickback from gastropod and hermit collectors.

Roy

Well I imagine there is certainly some truth to the idea that a smasher using the raptorial appendages in den building and rock smashing would exercise their hammers, I simply wonder if you could rely on rock smashing alone to prevent atrophy. Is atrophy any more or less common among the various species in your experience?

[Gonodactylus]

It seems to be a real problem with heavy hitters such as O. scyllarus and G. chiragra.

Construction striking is often performed a less than full power and isn't frequent enough to maintain proper muscle tone.

Roy