short QT method?

[Meshmez]

Ok... so at the risk of getting flamed extensively...:angryfire:
And please correct me if im wrong because that is the purpose of this post...

If i understand correctly, most common diseases (with the exception of ich) will frequently show up fairly quickly right? like within a week of getting the fish?

The tank transfer method for treating ICH takes 12 days...

Im thinking, if people were to automatically run tank transfer on every fish they get, they could effectivly spot/prevent most forms of disease in 12 days. Granted this requires 2 tanks and everything else involved in the tank transfer method, but that may be way more inviting than having to deal with a QT tank for 8+ weeks...

obviously if another disease is discovered in that time, the time to treat it might be longer than the 12 days.

does this thought process hold water? (pun intended :) ) or am I crazy?

[ganjero]

No they don't show up fairly quickly, ich can take longer than 12 days to show up. There is not "short" quarantine, minimum 6 weeks or you are just wasting your time.

I have read the tank transfer method and IMO it will kill fish faster. They are already weak and all that stress does not help.
Impatience=shortcuts=failure
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

[Meshmez]

No they don't show up fairly quickly, ich can take longer than 12 days to show up. There is not "short" quarantine, minimum 6 weeks or you are just wasting your time.

I have read the tank transfer method and IMO it will kill fish faster. They are already weak and all that stress does not help.
Impatience=shortcuts=failure
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

I know ich takes longer than 12 days... i said that in my original post... but using the tank transfer method would rule ich out. what else takes more than 12 days to show up?

[george915]

I know ich takes longer than 12 days... i said that in my original post... but using the tank transfer method would rule ich out. what else takes more than 12 days to show up?

velvet. similar life cycle as marine ich.

[Meshmez]

velvet. similar life cycle as marine ich.

Which can also be treated with tank transfer... right?

[snorvich]

Tank transfer works exceptionally well with ich (cryptocaryon irritans) but I would not use it universally for any parasite except ich.

[MrTuskfish]

You're missing a major part of using a QT. Getting a fish acclimated, feeding, etc., without all the competition and aggression of established tankmates. Fish that go through a nice & quiet QT regimen do much better, long-term, than those that don't....IMO & IME. A good QT is the least stressful place the fish that the fish will ever experience, contrary to lots of opinions, and rushing into tank transfer just destroys that experience. (I do think TT is an excellent ich treatment, though.) Again, IMO & IME, I'll admit to be generally against any idea that has the sole objective of just saving time.

[sandwi54]

You're missing a major part of using a QT. Getting a fish acclimated, feeding, etc., without all the competition and aggression of established tankmates. Fish that go through a nice & quiet QT regimen do much better, long-term, than those that don't....IMO & IME. A good QT is the least stressful place the fish that the fish will ever experience, contrary to lots of opinions, and rushing into tank transfer just destroys that experience. (I do think TT is an excellent ich treatment, though.) Again, IMO & IME, I'll admit to be generally against any idea that has the sole objective of just saving time.

+1. It's ridiculous how many people think QT is a stressful place for fish and rush to place them directly into DT. Imagine an already weakened fish (from transport) going into a completely unfamiliar environment with aggressive tankmates that may harass it; that's what I call stressful. Being inside a dimmed QT by itself is not stressful at all. Imagine yourself being thrown into a jail cell with 5 big guys who want to do *#$@ to you vs. being by yourself. Which one would you prefer?

I bet most of the "new fish never ate" issues can be resolved by the use of QT. In the DT other fish would quickly gobble up the food and leave none to the newcomers, but in a QT the new fish gets to take his time to sample and develop the taste for prepared food. QT makes the transition to captive much easier for new fish. In my opinion, it's a necessity. Rushing never gets things done right.

[Meshmez]

You're missing a major part of using a QT. Getting a fish acclimated, feeding, etc., without all the competition and aggression of established tankmates. Fish that go through a nice & quiet QT regimen do much better, long-term, than those that don't....IMO & IME. A good QT is the least stressful place the fish that the fish will ever experience, contrary to lots of opinions, and rushing into tank transfer just destroys that experience. (I do think TT is an excellent ich treatment, though.) Again, IMO & IME, I'll admit to be generally against any idea that has the sole objective of just saving time.

+1. It's ridiculous how many people think QT is a stressful place for fish and rush to place them directly into DT. Imagine an already weakened fish (from transport) going into a completely unfamiliar environment with aggressive tankmates that may harass it; that's what I call stressful. Being inside a dimmed QT by itself is not stressful at all. Imagine yourself being thrown into a jail cell with 5 big guys who want to do *#$@ to you vs. being by yourself. Which one would you prefer?

I bet most of the "new fish never ate" issues can be resolved by the use of QT. In the DT other fish would quickly gobble up the food and leave none to the newcomers, but in a QT the new fish gets to take his time to sample and develop the taste for prepared food. QT makes the transition to captive much easier for new fish. In my opinion, it's a necessity. Rushing never gets things done right.

I agree with both of you regarding fish that are difficult to get eating, or fish that are known to have issues with captive life. But many of the fish we keep have absolutely no issues. Im not saying that if you have a fish that hasnt eaten in the 12 days just throw it in the dt and call it good, same goes for a fish that shows signs of distress or other diseases. Those fish will need more time in QT. I agree.

Im also not trying to discount the fact that a 8+week QT will be much more reliable in catching ALL diseases. The fact of the matter is for most of us, an 8+ week QT is not really feasable. So im trying to figure out some kind of happy medium that is more feasable for more people. It was stated that anything less than 6 weeks and you're wasting your time... Yet i havent seen any good support for that. assuming ich and velvet are being ruled out (ill admit i have been finding about 50/50 on if tank transfer works for velvet, but most of the "no's" seem to come because the treatment wasnt fast enough and the fish died of the disease.) it seems to me that most other common issues would present themselves in the 12 days (or even call it 14 to give a nice 2 weeks.)

The other thing is simply quarantining for 8+ weeks may not show you anything. If your fish is totally strong and healthy, it may be fighting off signs of ich, and at the end of your 8 weeks you will say "my fish is ich free!" and put it in the DT, only to have it release ich into the tank, and at that point, you truly have just wasted your time.

Im honestly not trying to stir the pot or start a fight, im simply trying to play devils advocate and try to understand for myself if there truly is a absolute need for 2 months in QT for every case.

[tmz]

Tank transfer is a fine way to afford preventative treatment for the most common killer, ie, crypto caryon irritansmarine ich). Since the parasite only stays in the fish for 3 to 7 days ,the tank taransfer method ,tank tranfer eliminates it in 12 days ,e by leaving them behind in an empty tank . 4 transfers 3 days apart do it very well.

I've used it without further qt for several specimens. It might help velvet(amyloodinium) and will leave the free swimming stage behind but the lifecycle is faster for these dinoflagellates and spores behave differently than the crypto cysts. The other major players: brooklynella, flukes, etc ,live on the skin of the fish and don't have a free swimming phase
So, I agree tank transfer is exceptional for ich only and gives you a 12 day period of observation for other maladies.
I worry about flukes in particular making a late appearance.
I now use tank transfer for all new specimens followed by a further period of observation in a well cycled larger qt tank. Haven't yet decided whether or not to add prazi pro preventatively.
I have 3 small tierra anthias in qt now . They have been through tank transfer . They feed very well in this setting without competition. I'll keep them there for a while till they get a bit larger and more settled before putting them into one of the displays where competition is a bit fiercer.

[b0bab0ey]

+1. It's ridiculous how many people think QT is a stressful place for fish and rush to place them directly into DT. Imagine an already weakened fish (from transport) going into a completely unfamiliar environment with aggressive tankmates that may harass it; that's what I call stressful. Being inside a dimmed QT by itself is not stressful at all. Imagine yourself being thrown into a jail cell with 5 big guys who want to do *#$@ to you vs. being by yourself. Which one would you prefer?

IMO it all depends on the fish. Smaller species will usually do fine for unlimited duration in QT. Larger fish and even small Tangs seem to stress from the limited swimming space. Most QTs I read about on here are 40 gal max.

[tmz]

Space is an issue i ; ammonia control too. Resting / hiding places help( pvc works well).

[MrTuskfish]

Space is an issue i ; ammonia control too. Resting / hiding places help( pvc works well).

Ammonia often seems to be a problem with a QT/HT; but it doesn't need to be. IMO, every hobbyist should just assume a HT/QT will be needed and keep HOB filter sponges (I really like Aqua-Clear for this) in a good flow area of their DT system. I have never had a well-seeded AC sponge fail to completely handle ammonia/nitrite in a QT/HT.