Water change, 2 dead fish, what did i do wrong?

[flakey]

Hi guys, I really need some help here.

My setup
400l tank + 3ft sump full of live rock.
TMC full LED lighting
Torch Coral
Hammer
Bubble tip nem
H Mag nem
Various other soft corals
2 regal tangs
3 clowns
Carribean blue juvinile
Shrimps

Filters
Deep sand bed
Bio Pearls
Skimmer

I've only just started getting into coral and to be truthful, my water parameters were never the best, but since going corals in the past couple of months my water has been spot on.

So i decided to treat myself and bought a purple tang and goldrim tang. I introduced them into the tank and being the new kids on the block they initially had white spots due to conflicts with the existing fish. After a week, they established themselves but still had minor whitespots. Both ate and had full bellies.

I decided to do a water change. I used RO water and Red Sea Coral Pro salt. This is the first time I've used Red Sea as I wanted something better for my corals.
I use my normal black bin have used for the past year which i purchased from a local DIY store and it holds approx 75l. I mixed the salt and ran a powerhead in the bin for 4 days, unfortunately I was busy so switched the powerhead off and left the water standing for 1 week. When I came to do the water change, I noticed the black bin and powerhead was covered with a film of white dust. I thought nothing of it and ran the powerhead, heated the water and performed the water change. Over the next 3 days my fish became ill, especially the purple and goldrim tangs. White spots, velvety film all over their bodies and eventually passed away. They still ate in their final days.

I did a water test at the LFS and everything was perfect except slightly high phosphates. 0 nitrates and nitrites.
The other fish although initially ill now seem to be recovering. The eyes of my regal tangs have a white film over them and my bubbletips expelled a little mucus but everything seems to be recovering.

What did i do wrong??? The only thing I did different is leaving the water standing for a week and the white film covering the bin. Do you think the bin somehow polluted the water? ie. cheap plastic ??? I am really upset about the fish and also not knowing what I did wrong... If i knew what i did wrong at least i can avoid this happening again. Any advice would be most appreciated.

[flakey]

My tank today...

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj499/enthai/Tank.jpg

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj499/enthai/Tang.jpg

[gbru316]

Did the white spots look like little cotton balls?

[jerpa]

Your fish didn't get white spots from stress. They were infected with some infection, parasite, or fungus. If the salt you use had organics in it they may have decomposed and that may have contributed to their demise. If the other fish are okay though I would guess the water change wasn't the problem and the timing was coincidental.

[flakey]

Not sure what you mean by little cotton balls. if you look at my pic of the regal tang, you can see he has a few. it was most noticable at night under attinics. the goldrim did have a film of white furry looking like film over its entire body leading to its death.

I believe Red Sea is quite a good brand so i wouldn't have thought it was the salt. I did read that goldrim's are suseptable to parasites, but it doesn't explain wht the 2 new fish both died. The other fish are ill but not nearly as bad as the goldrim and purple tang. The pic of regal tang was taken just now, 2 days after both fish died. So that gives you an indication of how ill they are.

[mm949]

if left untreated, the parasites will kill the fish

[flakey]

what treatment should I use?

[flakey]

if left untreated, the parasites will kill the fish

Oh no, just noticed the carribean blue is not looking too good. Any advice on what I should do?

http://i1264.photobucket.com/albums/jj499/enthai/DSC_4305.jpg

[aleonn]

When I think of "white furry looking like film over its body," I tend to think of velvet or Brooks. I would read into those diseases and act ASAP if confirmed to be the case.

[flakey]

thanks guys, having read up on forums etc on parasites, and possible medication, i will go and get some oodinex first thing tomorrow morning. this seems to be the best medication for corals and inverts.
Do let me know if you think otherwise.
thanks again

[Karlen84]

From my experience, best treatment is to have a QT tank and then treat them with some copper based med. Because of the inverts in your display, there is just not many types of treatment you can do that will be very effective. Good luck

[Shells4]

From my experience, best treatment is to have a QT tank and then treat them with some copper based med. Because of the inverts in your display, there is just not many types of treatment you can do that will be very effective. Good luck

+1. Best bet to save that tang is to remove all fish from the display and treat with either hypo or copper. You will have to leave your display empty of fish for 6-8 weeks. If you decide to hypo, keep a close eye on your pH, it can drop pretty quickly as you drop your salinity.

[SushiGirl]

Water change, 2 dead fish, what did i do wrong?
...
I mixed the salt and ran a powerhead in the bin for 4 days, unfortunately I was busy so switched the powerhead off and left the water standing for 1 week.

^^That. The water sat & got stagnant.

[tmz]

Sorry for your trouble.
The problem is the new fish . Without quarantine and prevetative treatment , ich ( crytocaryon irritans) or velvet( amyloodinium) are very likely. Looks like ich in the picture but may be velvet. The fish need treatment in a quarantine tank; copper will kill the free swimming phase of ich and velvet. The display tank needs to be fishless for 72 days to eliminate the parasite if it's ich or it will attack new fish.

[bertoni]

If the Red Sea salt doesn't have any vitamins, amino acids, or other organics added, it's likely safe to let it sit. I suspect the timing was coincidental, but a large water change might cause some stress. What percentage of the water volume was changed in one shot

[flakey]

Sorry for your trouble.
The problem is the new fish . Without quarantine and prevetative treatment , ich ( crytocaryon irritans) or velvet( amyloodinium) are very likely. Looks like ich in the picture but may be velvet. The fish need treatment in a quarantine tank; copper will kill the free swimming phase of ich and velvet. The display tank needs to be fishless for 72 days to eliminate the parasite if it's ich or it will attack new fish.

How about snails, hermits, starfish?
looks like its time to buy a fish trap :(

[flakey]

If the Red Sea salt doesn't have any vitamins, amino acids, or other organics added, it's likely safe to let it sit. I suspect the timing was coincidental, but a large water change might cause some stress. What percentage of the water volume was changed in one shot

Water change is just under 10%

[flakey]

How about snails, hermits, starfish?
looks like its time to buy a fish trap :(

is it possible for my existing fish to have ich or velvet but look perfectly normal for months? then when the new fish is introduced they catch it from my fish? thing is a number of months ago i tried a goldrim tang and it died within 2 weeks. I just put it down to stress because my other fish all look fine that time.

[jerpa]

is it possible for my existing fish to have ich or velvet but look perfectly normal for months? then when the new fish is introduced they catch it from my fish? thing is a number of months ago i tried a goldrim tang and it died within 2 weeks. I just put it down to stress because my other fish all look fine that time.

Yes it is absolutely possible. The fish already in the tank may have been able to keep the parasite at bay. They had ich it just wasn't bad enough to be visible. You added new fish and stress the current inhabitants. This lowers their immune response and the parasite goes to work. You could see no symptoms for years and still have ich in your tank that's why it is such a problem. One day the power goes out for a few hours and stresses the fish and you have an outbreak.

In addition to reading up on fish diseases you should also research quarantine procedures. You will already need a hospital tank anyway, might as well get two.

[tmz]

Inverts ,mollusks etc. can stay in the fishless tank. They can not tolerate copper or hyposalinity though .
The parasites leave a fish go to surfaces and encyst. Each cyst can produce 200 or more free swimming parasites . They must find a fish to infest within a day or perish .The cyst usually hatch within a week or two so but the cyst can remain vialble for up to 72 days per one study. If you search for cryptocaryon irritans and oodininium you will find lots of information on the life cycle of these two parasites and treatment methods.

Fish that appear perfectly normal that were exposed to ich and survived it often develop a partial immunity to that particular strain . The parasites still infest them but in small numbers in the soft tissues of the gills, nostrils and mouth . The fish with a mild infestation may appear normal in a non stressed environment. . When a new fish is introduced without immunity to that strain ,the parasites attack it . Sometimes this results in an outbreak that overwhelms even the partially immune fish.

[jerpa]

[QUOTE=flakey;19896553]How about snails, hermits, starfish?
looks like its time to buy a fish trap :([/QUOT

Inverts can stay in the tank for the duration of the fallow period. As long as there are no fish the ich can't complete its life cycle and will die out.

[bertoni]

A 10% change should be fine. I'm sorry to hear that your fish are having problems, but it might not be due to the water change at all, although I agree that if the salt has organics, stagnation could be a problem.