AEFW Why wont they die!!!

[2 TAZ]

Ok, so about a month ago I discovered I had the red bugs, at that time I could not find any AEFW. Treated 3 times with interceptor and red bugs are a distant memory. Unfortanutely my problems have been replaced with AEFW.

I started pulling out the coral out of the DT and moving it to a QT tank. Before I moved them I scraped of the eggs with a tooth brush and a tooth pick (the tooth brush did not get most of them) and first dipped in CoralRX at 20 drops per 1/2 gallon for 10 minutes. At the end of the dip I shot them with a turkey baster, many of them came off but they were still moving. I left them in there for another 10 minutes but they were still alive :( On the bottle the experation date is illegable. Do you think it could just be outdated?

I read up some more about them on RC and some people suggested iodine. I then used SeaChem Reef dip (an iodine dip) at a rate of 1 capful per 1/2 gallon for 10 minutes shot them with baster. More worms but still alive. I left them in there for another 2 hours now STILL ALIVE :( Lots of dead pods, etc but AEFW are not dead.

So came back here and did more reading. Thinking of dosing with levamisole but some people seem to say even levamisole may not kill them and instead just stun them.

To clerify my QT tank is a 20 gallon I plumbed into the DT but can easily disconect during treatment. I was planning on disconecting the 20 gallon and using it as the dipping container then remove all the water and replace with new water before re-connecting to display. Wtih my poor succes with the 2 above mentioned dips I do not know what I should use for the treatment. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Can AEFW get past a 100 micron filter bag?

I could not find any on my montis are they OK to stay untreated?

Are birdsnest unafected by them? All seems unafected in DT.

Thanks

[2 TAZ]

The flat worms have been in the seachem's iodine dip now for 24 hours, STILL ALIVE!!!
Coral looks a bit stressed from dipping, blasting with water and being moved around. AHHHG

[spsfreak1977]

I heard its one fight to get rid of them good luck

[James404]

Revive will kill them for sure (not the eggs), I used 2 capfuls per gallon. They should start to fall off within 2-3 minutes. Bayer insect spray is supposed to work as well.

[2 TAZ]

I think I will try the bayer total insect killer, Ill go to home depot tomorrow. It seems like that might be more effective at killing them and less risky to my coral/tanks. I took out many of my SPS and moved them to the tank I will be dipping in. I plan to leave them out of the display for 6 to 8 weeks which I guess should cause them to starve and perish. Which of these corals can I keep in the display that will serve as food for them. birdsnest, poccillapora, montis, stylos, bottlebrush, lukani, I have not seen any on the millies but I think I have read they will attack them too? All the tanks are plumbed together but the water from the dipping tank has to go through filter bags and the return pump before it makes its way back to the display. Do you think this will be OK?

[2 TAZ]

AWSOME, thaks you very much. I have a bucket of AEFW left from yesterdays dipping with seachems reef dip still alive and added the coral revive and within a couple of minutes they died. YEH we have found a killer! I just got some Revive but did not try it because the label implied it was more to help in fragging and not neccassarily a paresite killer. The statement that it is not a medication and dose not take the place of a med. led me to think it would not help
Thanks again

[Piper27]

I had luck with dipping every acro in my tank for a number of weeks in a row. Or every 5 or 6 days. Acro eating flatworms only eat acros.

I made sure every acro in the tank was dipped in revive and have not seen any signs for over 4 months now. You have to MAKE SURE there are no eggs everytime you pull your acros out for dips. I just used a 20 long tank half filled and could dip all my acros in three sessions. Good luck!

[Agioniko]

Revive will work. You need to visually inspect for the eggs, and you need to keep dipping. One round won't be enough. Lifecyle I believe is 7 days after hathcing they can lay eggs. If you do three dips 6 days apart you should be golden

[Stuginski]

Hi..

To kill this bastards I used this schedule:

Setup a qt linked with my DT and removed every single acro. The plumbing parts are isolated with many layers of filter bags. So I can guarantee that none AEFW will transit between the tanks.

Perform a weekly bath with melafix (5ml/l for 10 minutes) plus blasting with a powerhead during 8 weeks.
Melafix don´t kill immediately BUT kick than off the coral tissue (this is enough).
Scrap all the eggs.

After 8 weeks every acro get back to my DT.

Not too simple...but effective!

Good luck...sorry for my bad english

Hails from Brazil

D.

[2 TAZ]

Thanks guys for all the input. Ok dipped the acros today with revive. Most had none on them that came off. A couple had a bunch, however I found alot more eggs then adults, is this normal? I do have 1 adult yellow wrasse I do not see much of. He only comes out at night. Maybe he is eating some of the adults?

How critical is it that I get every acro out of the dt? I only found adults and eggs on a few pieces. I have a couple of acros that look compleatly unafected and have compleatly attached themselves to a very large rock with many other corals on it that would be near imposable to get out. I dont think I will be able to cut it off the rock while under water. I could probably scrape the coral thus killing it but I am trying to save my coral not kill it. Out of over 50 peices (mostly frags) only about 1/2 dozen had eggs and adults that I found. I'm thinking the couple I left in there are clean of any at the moment however some probably fell of the ones with them on and may find their way to the healthy ones. What do you think?
Thanks

[2 TAZ]

Piper
So you place the acros back in you're display tank between dips? Were any little bits of coral leaft behind on the rock when you dipped? How many dips did you perform? I guess the theory is if any AEFW fall off or is left on the rock they will make there way back to the acro after it is dipped and then you would get them on the next dip? Dose that stratergy require extra dips? I think that would be less stressful for the coral then having them in a QT with different lights and water flow then what they are used to, especialy in there weakened state, as long as it is effective at killing all the worms.

[Stuginski]

Thanks guys for all the input. Ok dipped the acros today with revive. Most had none on them that came off. A couple had a bunch, however I found alot more eggs then adults, is this normal? I do have 1 adult yellow wrasse I do not see much of. He only comes out at night. Maybe he is eating some of the adults?

How critical is it that I get every acro out of the dt? I only found adults and eggs on a few pieces. I have a couple of acros that look compleatly unafected and have compleatly attached themselves to a very large rock with many other corals on it that would be near imposable to get out. I dont think I will be able to cut it off the rock while under water. I could probably scrape the coral thus killing it but I am trying to save my coral not kill it. Out of over 50 peices (mostly frags) only about 1/2 dozen had eggs and adults that I found. I'm thinking the couple I left in there are clean of any at the moment however some probably fell of the ones with them on and may find their way to the healthy ones. What do you think?
Thanks

Hi Taz...yes it´s possible that your wrasse is eating some of the adults aefw, but don´t put all your coins that this will save your acros´s...the wrasses don´t make miracles...IF you want to eliminate this fcking plague...you have to brake the cycle...to do this you have to destroy any chance to new generations. To my exeperience..baths in target corals just works in very incipient infestations, many people that do target baths don´t really eliminated the problem...just decreased...and after a few weeks again; bleaching, rtn, pour polyp extension...
The melafix baths are much more softer to corals than revive or coral rx...and works! I don´t loose any single frag.
I know that this procedure is a pain in the A$$...but to be sure that you don´t have to treat everything again after a few months...be patient and do the right thing.

Hails from Brazil

D.

[2 TAZ]

D.
So did you take the corals out of the QT and dipp with Melafix in a seperate container or just add the Melafix to the QT then do a 100% water change in the QT then run the pump back throughout the system? I used a seperate container for the 1st dip but am thinking of just using the QT tank next time with a 100% water change at the end. My QT is only 20 gallons out of at least 600 gallons in the total system so it will be a small water change overall.

My corals dont look happy at all. Much worse then before I dipped with the revive. I used maybe slightly more then full strength but now I'm thinking that was a mistake. I had pieces that appeared unafected and healthy now look stressed out and not good....vert little polyps extension or compleately retracted, some pale patches.

D.
Dose the melafix eventualy kill them or just stun them?

Thanks

[Piper27]

Piper
So you place the acros back in you're display tank between dips? Were any little bits of coral leaft behind on the rock when you dipped? How many dips did you perform? I guess the theory is if any AEFW fall off or is left on the rock they will make there way back to the acro after it is dipped and then you would get them on the next dip? Dose that stratergy require extra dips? I think that would be less stressful for the coral then having them in a QT with different lights and water flow then what they are used to, especialy in there weakened state, as long as it is effective at killing all the worms.

Yea I put everything back in the display. Every acro is on its own little rock, no small pieces of acro were left in the tank. I did 7 or 8 but 12 total because I skipped a week with no revive on hand (not knowing at the time melafix would work) and found eggs on a stag. I agree it was less stressful to the corals, the only stuff we lost was when we first found them and tried the qt method. I would definatly do more than 3 dips. I would do no less than 6 weeks of dips. Better safe than sorry and the more the better. I dipped in revive for 15 min then had a 5 gal bucket to rinse the coral in and shake off any half dead aefw before they went back to the display. Seemed to work fine once I actually did it right. That is dipping EVERYTHING and looking for eggs on every inch of the corals every single dip.

[Stuginski]

TAZ.

I used a separate container to perform all my baths. After the bath the coral was reintroduced to QT. I´m suggesting you to use Melafix because it isn´t to harsh to the corals. There is some cases of losses of smooth skin acro´s with revive baths...and a few crashs reports with mebendazole...so I think that Melafix is a good option.
Melafix will kill the aefw but it isn´t instantly...it will take some time...but this isn´t really important when you use a separate container to baths.

Listen to my words...this tiny little bastards are masters of survival. I´m suggesting you to setup a QT because I saw with my own eyes...this bastards attack a coral a day after a bath. They will stay in your reef waiting until the corals are back... to make a new meal.

In my experience it´s safer and better to treat in a qt and left your tank a few weeks without ANY...little piece of acros so the remain AEFW will starve to death. When I said ANY...is ANY...NONE...ZERO, ok? Because if two or three survive in a inch of acro fogotten under a rock...you will have problems again in 4 to 6 months.
Aefw are able to put their eggs no only in the coral bases but in rocks to (to be honest I saw in glass to..in a case), so, this empty period is crucial to starve this guys.
When you target your treatment to only affected corals..the bastards will learn...and will attack other corals that they never paid much attention before. p. ex they love millies...but if you always perform baths in your millies they will attack other corals. During long time I believed that they are incapable to attack green slimmer staghorn...but I was wrong.

In a "light infection" target baths will work...but if you seen your corals pale , with bite marks and bad polyp extension...belive me, you are not in the "light side" infection.

I have some pictures of my AEFW War....in my post if you have curiosity...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2083948

Good luck...keep us updated1

Hails from Brazil.

[2 TAZ]

D. You have an amazing tank, I only hope 1 day to have a tank 1/2 as nice as you'rs :)

I reluctantly took out the remaining acros last night and dipped them. I thought they were compleately unafected but there were AEFW left on the buttom of the dip bucket, so I'm glad I took them out. No acros left in DT now. Unfortanately 1 coral has died I believe from the dipping and a couple more do not look good. Next dip I think I will cut the revive to 2 to 3 caps per gallon or switch to the melafix.

[Stuginski]

Thank you TAZ...

I´m here with my fingers crossed! I hope you don´t loose nothing more. If the coral aren´t good...give a try to melafix (5ml/l) 10 minutes...

Hails from Brazil

D.

[2 TAZ]

A nice 3" piece of hawkins blue echinatea (looked unafected by the AEFW) died from the dip, and a couple of smaller pieces that were eating up prety badly. I wasnt sure if the echinata was an acropora but figured I would play it safe and dip it, I guess that might of been a mistake

[2 TAZ]

The rest of the acros look the same, still very little polyp extension, not dying but not looking very good either, about the same as before I started dipping. I think I may have blasted them to hard with the turkey baster now that I'm thinking of it. I hooked up a MJ 250 that someone in another thread said they used right up against the corals while dipping and it seemed like substantualy less water current. I that possable to do harm by over basting?

[Stuginski]

Taz like I said before...revive is too harsh to some smooth skin acros...hawkin´s seems to be specially sensitive to revive baths. Try melafix baths...it´s a safer option in my opinion.
I don´t know which powerhead you used to blast but here I was using a 1000l/h pump...

Best regards

D.

[Piper27]

I never basted corals in the revive bath because it just blows the skin off. I used the fresh tank water bucket to rinse and shake the flat worms off. I could use a turkey baster in the melafix bath with little side effect though.

[2 TAZ]

I never basted corals in the revive bath because it just blows the skin off. I used the fresh tank water bucket to rinse and shake the flat worms off. I could use a turkey baster in the melafix bath with little side effect though.

Yeh I guess I learned that the hard way.

[QUOTE=STUGINSKI]Taz like I said before...revive is too harsh to some smooth skin acros...hawkin´s seems to be specially sensitive to revive baths[QOUTE]

Yeh, I wont try that again, unfotunatley that was my only one.

[tdb320reef]

How is it going? Are they still in the QT TANK?

[Reef Bass]

I with Stuginski on this one. I had AEFW bad (despite dipping everything incoming always - a lesson about the difference between dipping and QT) and after a year of inconsistent and insufficient efforts it got to the point where it was either toss all acros (not going to happen. I love me my colored sticks) or form a new strategy.

Once a week for six weeks straight I pulled every acro out of the tank and did the recommended dip in Melafix Marine. 10mls / l for 5 minutes. That combined with vigorous agitation dislodged adult aefw. Visual inspects for eggs and scraping to remove.

The last flatworms I saw were at week 3. It has been months since the treatment and I haven't seen any flatworms or bitemarks or damage since. I even dipped a couple of small colonies recently and there were no flatworms.

My acros were pale with poor polyp extension after 6 weeks of weekly dips, but all survived, including echinata, surharsonoi, hummilus, lokani and efflo. Melafix Marine, imho, walks the line well of being harsh on pests but not so harsh on corals.

Months later color is returning, though it's not where it was yet. Best of all polyp extension is nearly back to where it was.

[2 TAZ]

I did the second round of dips the night before last. I used Melafix at 3/4 rate of reccommended amount then placed them into another bucket of clean tank water were I blasted with the turkey baster. I did not find any aefw eggs and no hatched aefw but am assuming there was some. The large adults are easy to see in the buckets and there were definately none of them however I have a very hard time seeing the small ones. Corars today 2 days after the dip look about the same as before the dip, maybee 1 looks slightly worse. I ordered Melafix marine over a week ago but unfortunately it is on back order so I stuck with the melafix. Melafix definately kills them though, I got a frag from someone local and found a large adult that came off it and died in the melafix dip : )

I do have some old (probably 10 years), never opened, frozen and thawed melafix. Do you think it would still be any good? It is not the marine melafix, just the regular.

Should I wait 8 weeks or will 6 be good enough to place back in DT?

If I don't get the melafix do you think I could just do 1 more dip at the end of the quarinteen period?

[Reef Bass]

I don't know how long Melafix remains potent.

The important thing is to break the aefw life cycle by removing or killing all newly hatched flatworms before they can lay eggs. If you can do that, victory is yours! Way easier said than done, however.

[Reef Bass]

I don't know how long Melafix remains potent.

The important thing is to break the aefw life cycle by removing or killing all newly hatched flatworms before they can lay eggs. If you can do that, victory is yours! Way easier said than done, however.

[Stuginski]

But I think it is much more safer use a new one.

updates???

Hails from Brazil

D.

[2 TAZ]

Still waiting on the new melafix, hopefuly it will come before this Sunday which is when I am supposed to dip round 3.
On a possative note. I have a half dozen or so millipora that is starting to open more then I have seen in many, many months : )

These guys are so hard to see and on something like the millis I never saw any bite marks. I think they go unnoticed a lot.

[2 TAZ]

So far I have done 3 dips. I did not see anything in the 2nd or 3rd dip so decided to just quarantine for now. The melafix never came in, still on back order and I did not like the way the coral was responding to the revive dip. I plan to wait another week and dip everything again. If I can not find any worms I will re-introduce to the DT. Some of the coral such as the millis, blue tenius, and the green slimers, etc. are looking much better. Others still look the same, no improvement. It appears it will be a slow recovery.

[divewsharks]

Bauer complete insect killer will kill AEFW quick, and is pretty gentle on corals. I just used it on some AEFW I found last week on a milli. Within 30 seconds of putting the coral in the bath, the flatworms are falling off dead.
Ive used the bayer on many different types of coral.
Check out the thread on it. It under the label of another option for red bugs.