Life Span of Anemones

[C5flyboy]

I have a question for all you anemone experts out there. In general what is the life expectancy of an anemone living in our home aquariums? I have heard some different thoughts on this from 2-3 years to forever given the right conditions, and was wondering what some of you had to say about it.

[BonsaiNut]

They tend to be long-lived, if you can keep predators away. Of the several scientific papers that I have read that tracked anemones in the wild, their rates of mortality were greatly affected by whether or not they had clownfish, and whether they were located in deeper, rockier environments, versus shallow, sandier areas. Though they CAN potentially live for decades, the reality is that it is rare for them to do so... at least in the field studies I have seen.

It reminds me of some captive fish stories from when I used to work at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago. They had a captive tarpon there that was in excess of 70 years old. This old fish had lost an eye somewhere along the way, and was slow and lethargic, but he had obviously survived in captivity for many years longer than he would have in the wild.

For people who are producing anemone clones via asexual reproduction (primarily E. quadricolor), it raises the interesting question of where one "life" begins and another ends :) If you raise a bunch of clones is their biological clock reset when they split? Or are they simply a continuation of the lifespan of the original adult?

[xtlosx]

They tend to be long-lived, if you can keep predators away. Of the several scientific papers that I have read that tracked anemones in the wild, their rates of mortality were greatly affected by whether or not they had clownfish, and whether they were located in deeper, rockier environments, versus shallow, sandier areas. Though they CAN potentially live for decades, the reality is that it is rare for them to do so... at least in the field studies I have seen.

It reminds me of some captive fish stories from when I used to work at the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago. They had a captive tarpon there that was in excess of 70 years old. This old fish had lost an eye somewhere along the way, and was slow and lethargic, but he had obviously survived in captivity for many years longer than he would have in the wild.

For people who are producing anemone clones via asexual reproduction (primarily E. quadricolor), it raises the interesting question of where one "life" begins and another ends :) If you raise a bunch of clones is their biological clock reset when they split? Or are they simply a continuation of the lifespan of the original adult?

Very interesting write-up BonsaiNut.. My .02 cents on your question is the life clock resets when the clone is created. Of course, I don't know the biology of how that all works and the science behind it but in my mind (once again, not backed by science), I would think it would reset...

To the OP, there are several people on the boards who have carpet nems that have been around for a handful of years, so they certainly live longer than 1-3 years if cared for properly.. My first RBTA is almost 1 year old and I am hoping for several more birthdays to come for it!

[C5flyboy]

Interesting thoughts Bonsai! I think there is room for arguments on both sides. Definitely food for thought. How much does light and the age of the lights on your tank play into the health and life expectancy of anemones?

[phender]

I had a H. crispa for 17 years before I lost it to a temperature malfunction. For the most part, and I think this goes for most people, if you can get them through the first year, then it is just a matter of can you keep your equipment from malfunctioning or get tired of the anemone and sell it. I have had many (at least 7 or 8) that have been with me between 5 - 10 years before I found something else and sold them to make room.

As far as the "restart" on anemone age, I know that higher organisms seem to have a "clock" of sorts built into their DNA. You wouldn't want to clone a 15 year old dog for example, because the lifespan of the puppy would be limited due to the "old" DNA. I don't think simple organisms have a clock in their DNA.
There are some that suggest that splitting in BTAs is not so much reproduction as it is growth, sort of like corals. While the corals are still connected and the BTAs are not, the coral polyps still function as an entirely independent organism. In this scenario a BTA colony would still be considered one organism so therefore the age clock would not be restarted just because a new "polyp" forms.

[Toddrtrex]

I had an S. haddoni for 12+ years -- lost it when I introduced a new one that had some sort of infection. While that 12 years may seem like a long time, I still feel that I "failed" it.

[Tethered_Limbs]

when n wat wat wer you doin wen you worked @ the shedd?

[Toddrtrex]

when n wat wat wer you doin wen you worked @ the shedd?

What is that suppose to read/say?

[SpencerG]

Very interesting topic. According to the BBC, they are anecdotally long-lived, 60-80 years, do not age, and can live indefinitely.

[BonsaiNut]

when n wat wat wer you doin wen you worked @ the shedd?

It was not a career. I was doing a lot of diving at the time and was getting my dive master cert from one of the instructors who used to dive the main coral exhibit, so I would come along and give him a hand. I helped behind the scenes doing a number of mundane tasks - everything from food prep to working the touch tanks to helping the divers and working with the visitors. Not very sexy, but I really enjoyed it!

[BonsaiNut]

Very interesting topic. According to the BBC, they are anecdotally long-lived, 60-80 years, do not age, and can live indefinitely.

One wonders why we are not overwhelmed by infinite anemones... since they continue to sexually and asexually reproduce profusely and can live forever :)

Mother Nature tends to balance things pretty well. High rates of reproduction typically coincide with high rates of mortality. While a mouse MIGHT be able to live 20 years in captivity before it dies of old age, the average life of a mouse in the wild tends to be brutish and short :)

For some reason, the fact that anemones don't age the way humans do has created a lot of hype in the media. Anemones are not unique in their ability to potentially lead very long lives - corals, jellyfish, worms, and probably other critters have the ability to regenerate indefinitely, regrow complete bodies from body parts, replace old cells with new, and most importantly - maintain DNA length during cell replication even after the organism has reached maturity (this is where we humans break down). However I don't see anyone running news stories about our need to protect worms because some could actually be "centuries" old :) The short answer: no one really knows how old anemones MIGHT be... just that field studies show they die at a pretty decent rate and need high levels of reproduction to maintain population densities.

[Tethered_Limbs]

It was not a career. I was doing a lot of diving at the time and was getting my dive master cert from one of the instructors who used to dive the main coral exhibit, so I would come along and give him a hand. I helped behind the scenes doing a number of mundane tasks - everything from food prep to working the touch tanks to helping the divers and working with the visitors. Not very sexy, but I really enjoyed it!

sweet, i live nearby and am always curious about the happenings there.

[Tethered_Limbs]

What is that suppose to read/say?

i wouldn't type this way if i had a keyboard on my ps3

[ousnakebyte]

One wonders why we are not overwhelmed by infinite anemones... since they continue to sexually and asexually reproduce profusely and can live forever :)

Mother Nature tends to balance things pretty well. High rates of reproduction typically coincide with high rates of mortality. While a mouse MIGHT be able to live 20 years in captivity before it dies of old age, the average life of a mouse in the wild tends to be brutish and short :)

For some reason, the fact that anemones don't age the way humans do has created a lot of hype in the media. Anemones are not unique in their ability to potentially lead very long lives - corals, jellyfish, worms, and probably other critters have the ability to regenerate indefinitely, regrow complete bodies from body parts, replace old cells with new, and most importantly - maintain DNA length during cell replication even after the organism has reached maturity (this is where we humans break down). However I don't see anyone running news stories about our need to protect worms because some could actually be "centuries" old :) The short answer: no one really knows how old anemones MIGHT be... just that field studies show they die at a pretty decent rate and need high levels of reproduction to maintain population densities.


For both corals and anemones - as I understand it - their tissues *seem* to not degrade the way ours do, in terms of age. Whether they can or cannot "live forever" I really don't know. I would doubt it.

It's an interesting question - they disappear in the wild due primarily to predation/disease/environmental perturbations, etc., but are any dying from "old age" if predation/disease, etc. are removed from the equation? It's difficult to know, I think.

They also need high rates of reproduction b/c the young receive virtually no parental care, save for the initial care of the brooding species, and mortality for larvae is extremely high (I know you know this :) ). We don't know what the actual settlement rate for corals in the wild is, but it's quite possible that perhaps 90% martality happens within the first 3-6 months - at least, that's what we see in captivity, and might be even more in the wild (98-99%).

Having said that - corals do *seem* to go through some sort of senesence. At least, older, individual polyps in a colony might become less reproductively active and heal from a wound more slowly that the younger polyps on the distal ends. Does this translate to anemones? Possibly, but again, difficult to know.

And then.... you have those deepwater gorgonians that are estimated to be 2,000-5,000 years old....

Nice discussion. :beer:

Cheers
Mike

[BonsaiNut]

For both corals and anemones - as I understand it - their tissues *seem* to not degrade the way ours do, in terms of age. Whether they can or cannot "live forever" I really don't know. I would doubt it.

I think what many news articles are referring to is that in some organisms, DNA does not deteriorate as cells age and replicate. In the case of human aging, this DNA degradation is considered by some to be the very definition of "aging" - and therefore its absence means that a cell or organism does not "age". However just because cells do not age does not mean that an organism is immortal - or for that matter that it leads a long life...

One of the events associated with aging cells is related to telomere length. In order to grow and function normally, cells in our bodies must keep dividing to replace cells that are worn out or damaged. During this division process, copies of the genetic material must pass to the next generation of cells. The genetic information inside cells is arranged in twisted strands of DNA called chromosomes. At the end of these strands is a protective 'cap' called a telomere. Telomeres have been likened to the protective end of a shoelace which stops strands from fraying or sticking to other strands.

Each time a cell divides the protective telomere 'cap' gets shorter. When they get too short, the cell loses its ability to renew and divide. In an immortal animal we would therefore expect cells to be able to maintain telomere length indefinitely so that they can continue to replicate.


Microscopic creatures called water bears live in extremely harsh environmental conditions and have the ability to go into complete suspended animation for hundreds of years - returning to life when environmental conditions are once again within the range necessary for life. Are these creatures immortal?

One species of jellyfish has the unique ability to reverse its life cycle - to go from adult free-swimming medusa back to pre-sexual polyp form... and then develop into a polyp colony that matures into numerous adults. In the process it goes from mature cells to young cells and back again... repairing its DNA along the way.

Did you know the humble lobster becomes more fertile as it ages? That it doesn't experience normal senescence and is just as active at 100 years of age as it is at 10 years of age?

The Aldabra Giant Tortoise is another animal that does not experience normal senescence... and there are individuals reported to be in excess of 250 years old...

Life can not always be explained using a **** sapiens model. People seem excited about "immortal anemones" because they think of immortality on human terms. For an anemone, it is just another day in the life... where it COULD live to be 1000 years old, but it is highly unlikely that it will live to be 10 :) Many news articles that I read on this subject seem to make the mistake - because an anemone CAN live to be 100 years of age, when you see an anemone on a reef it IS 100 years of age. Field studies on anemone mortality and expected lifespan do not bear this out...

[ousnakebyte]

Life can not always be explained using a **** sapiens model. People seem excited about "immortal anemones" because they think of immortality on human terms. For an anemone, it is just another day in the life... where it COULD live to be 1000 years old, but it is highly unlikely that it will live to be 10 :) Many news articles that I read on this subject seem to make the mistake -

Absolutely - there are numerous examples that don't fit the "human" (LOL that the filter won't let you write out H. sapiens... :spin3:) definition of aging. I just finished reading The Secret Life of Lobsters and now have a newfound respect for them!



...because an anemone CAN live to be 100 years of age, when you see an anemone on a reef it IS 100 years of age. Field studies on anemone mortality and expected lifespan do not bear this out...


But that's what I was trying to say above. Field studies of life expectancies have to account for predation, disease, environmental shits and any other number of stressors. But, if those are removed, will an anemone live forever? or 5,000 years? Or 100 years?

I realize that 500 years old (or 200 or 1,000, pick a number...) might be artifically inflated for an anemone in the wild, but CAN they live that long? Will their physiology allow an individual to exist in perpetuity?

At this point, I don't think anyone has enough information for an answer.

Cheers
Mike

[ousnakebyte]

Grumble... double post...

[BonsaiNut]

I just finished reading The Secret Life of Lobsters and now have a newfound respect for them!

I liked that book! But after a while I found the sections that dealt with government bureaucracy frustrating and sad... It took some of the fun out of an otherwise great read.

But that's what I was trying to say above. Field studies of life expectancies have to account for predation, disease, environmental shits and any other number of stressors. But, if those are removed, will an anemone live forever? or 5,000 years? Or 100 years?

I agree that I'm not sure anyone knows.

First, there is no known way to tell any anemone's age (like rings on a tree, or ridges on a fish scale). The single paper I read that attempted to age anemones in situ used (to me) very tenuous assumptions about anemones remaining stationary for hundreds of years... they found a single anemone with a 200 year-old pile of clam shells beneath it and assumed the one anemone was responsible for eating all the clams... therefore the anemone was at least 200 years old :) Sadly, this study got wide distribution and is used as a source for many of the secondary articles I have seen.

Second, many studies on anemones are based on cold water anemones that have little in common with warm water anemones of completely different genera. Even if they DID show that a small non-photosynthetic cold water anemone was 200 years old, I don't know that you could draw any conclusions about the expected lifespan of a S. mertensii (for example).

Even if an anemone COULD live to 500 years, I'm not sure how that information is relevant to a reefkeeper... except as a bit of trivia. Put differently, I own several young Bristlecone pine trees. In the wild, Bristlecone pines are thought to be able to live to 5000 years of age. It is an interesting fact, but not really relevant to my attempts to make them into bonsai :) 5000 year-old Bristlecone pines are VERY rare and should be protected. But that doesn't mean there aren't TONS of younger trees, or that you can't propagate an almost infinite number of them, if you are so inclined. Potential for old age does not necessarily mean "rare" "fragile" or "low fecundity" (word of the day :) )

Does it really matter if your clone of E. quadricolor is 200 years old or if it is only 30 days old - if they are biologically and genetically identical? How about that 1000 year-old earthworm you dug up last time you went fishing. Did it taste any different to the fish? :)

[ousnakebyte]

I liked that book! But after a while I found the sections that dealt with government bureaucracy frustrating and sad... It took some of the fun out of an otherwise great read.

My feelings exactly. I loved all the biology and ecology, but getting dragged down in bureaucracy... well, I better not say too much more in an open forum... :hmm5:



Even if an anemone COULD live to 500 years, I'm not sure how that information is relevant to a reefkeeper... except as a bit of trivia.

Only thing I can think of at the moment is that it might start to define - or give boundaries to - our parameters of "success." (I know... whatever THAT means, right?)

All too often, I hear someone say, "Oh, I kept anemone X for 7 years before it died." And in that same breath I'll hear them hail it as a success. Is it?

If we knew S. gigantea, S. haddoni, H. magnifica, etc. (pick a species) really has a life expectancy of 15-20 years, that's something to strive for as an aquarist/caretaker. If they have a life expectancy of 500 years, then we need to start including them in our wills. Don't laugh - weird bird people do that with their parrots!

But then again, you don't know how old it was when it was collected, so how can you really tell...... just a thought, really.


(I know... then we need to start trying to close the captive life cycle with captive breeding for TRUE success.... yadda, yadda, yadda...)


So, there's that or... it's justs another way to flex our collective message board muscles.... :spin2:

Cheers
Mike

[elegance coral]

If they have a life expectancy of 500 years, then we need to start including them in our wills. Don't laugh - weird bird people do that with their parrots!

Cheers
Mike


I'm not getting any younger, and often think about what will happen to my anemones when I'm gone. I surely don't want them going to the LFS. I'll probably do something like those weird bird people do.

I don't know how long an anemone may be able to live in the perfect environment, but I do believe these animals are capable of out living any of us. To me that's the important part. When we buy a puppy, we can expect it to be with us for 10 or 15 years. An anemone could potentially be with us for life. At least that's what we should shoot for, IMHO.

[C5flyboy]

Wow this is some really great discussion! I didn't expect to be getting such good info and general discussion on the subject from my original question about anemone lifespan,:) but this has been great for me, a new comer to the reef keeping world. Thanks to all of you!

[Tethered_Limbs]

you arent goin anywhere EC

[BonsaiNut]

Wow this is some really great discussion! I didn't expect to be getting such good info and general discussion on the subject from my original question about anemone lifespan,:) but this has been great for me, a new comer to the reef keeping world. Thanks to all of you!

P.S. That looks an awful lot like a C-141 Starlifter... I used to jump out of those :)

[Anemone]

Well, I've had my RBTAs since 1995. A variety of tank mishaps over the years have taken out a few clones, but I'm close to a couple of hundred clones at this point, and I really couldn't tell you the age of any individual clone. IMO, they're all 17 years old at this point. :D

Kevin

[RobsReefs407]

Your right on that I don't even know where to start but I had my Rbtas for about 2 years with about 8 splits 1 death not a high death rate in my system unless something goes wrong Wow this is some really great discussion! I didn't expect to be getting such good info and general discussion on the subject from my original question about anemone lifespan,:) but this has been great for me, a new comer to the reef keeping world. Thanks to all of you!



Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

[stevetcg]

P.S. That looks an awful lot like a C-141 Starlifter... I used to jump out of those :)

As did I. Airborne all the way!

[BonsaiNut]

As did I. Airborne all the way!

Yeah! I was just looking at old photos of Benning the other day... I was sharing them with my son when he was complaining about his sports practices :)

As far as jump platforms go, I preferred the C-130... I liked the air-conditioning in the back :) And I am probably mistaken about it being a C-140... given that his name is C-5 FlyBoy :) Sometimes I am so stupid I scare myself :)

[C5flyboy]

P.S. That looks an awful lot like a C-141 Starlifter... I used to jump out of those :)

It's the Mighty C-5 Galaxy!! the C-141's big brother. I've been flying them out of Travis AFB for the last 5 years. To both of you Airborn guys thanks for the time and service you gave to this country!