The Future of nTOTM Poll (5 of 8)

[scolley]

It is possible that nTOTM contests will be discontinued if there is not enough member interest and support. A Nano Forum Moderator - Agu - has requested member decision on whether we should continue nTOTM, and what changes might make it more successful. You can read about it this thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2135366).

This poll is one of eight that have been set to try to answer Agu's questions. Please help us by replying to all eight polls. Each one deals with a different question/issue.

To help organize our discussions, please discuss your views on each question in the poll thread where it was asked. Thank you. :)

[tyler91913]

I think that some of the nano heavyweights (to the extent that that's not a contradiction in terms!) should get together and co-author a brief (1/2 page?) intro to the challenges of keeping a nano and important factors that should inform one's appreciation of a nano and give a little broader perspective when deciding whether or not to vote on a pretty tank in a NTOTM poll. This would include things like longevity of the tank, visibility of frags, signs of newness, etc. I think also that the tank keeper's willingness to share his/her successes AND failures should be important. Also the tank keeper's involvement in RC might be a factor--how has this person helped the hobby (using his/her tank as a vehicle of that aid)?. The writeup of the criteria could even include things like, "Is the tank keeper showing sensitivity to environmental concerns (sustainability of the ocean's reefs, electricity consumption, etc.)?"

This is not an exhaustive list of the criteria that could be suggested, but I think it's a good start, and that it addresses some of the concerns in the original thread on whether the NTOTM should continue.

Also, I want to underscore that the policing of these criteria cannot and should not be enforced. At the end of the day, people should be free to vote however they want, even if that means totally disregarding the suggested criteria listed with every competition.

[KafudaFish]

I think there should be a guideline for the criteria but at the same time I don't think most will follow it which is fine.

I have my list of what I look for and others have theirs. That is what makes this hobby great.

The reason why I feel this way was no one wanted to discuss the aspects of what made that one tank the nTOTY. I had hoped for more open discussions on it but that really did not happen.

I think one area we in the reef community are far behind are the asethics of the freshwater planted community. These people discuss the correct angle of rock c in relation to rock a etc. But again they have so many rules that it does take the fun out of things at the end of the day.

[jgraz]

I think there should be some type of suggested guideline as to how one votes. I like the others above also realize that many will not follow that giudeline, so that may skew the results. Not sure if its possible but is there anyway to make a simple points based system. Each tank is judged on certain criteria and the voter assigns a point value to each one. Highest point total wins. Would this be too complicated to implement.

[evil4g63]

I voted for the totm criteria but it should also be considered that not everyone has a really expensive camera on their hand.

[tyler91913]

I think there should be a guideline for the criteria but at the same time I don't think most will follow it which is fine.

I have my list of what I look for and others have theirs. That is what makes this hobby great.

The reason why I feel this way was no one wanted to discuss the aspects of what made that one tank the nTOTY. I had hoped for more open discussions on it but that really did not happen.

I think one area we in the reef community are far behind are the asethics of the freshwater planted community. These people discuss the correct angle of rock c in relation to rock a etc. But again they have so many rules that it does take the fun out of things at the end of the day.

Yep.

I think there should be some type of suggested guideline as to how one votes. I like the others above also realize that many will not follow that giudeline, so that may skew the results. Not sure if its possible but is there anyway to make a simple points based system. Each tank is judged on certain criteria and the voter assigns a point value to each one. Highest point total wins. Would this be too complicated to implement.

Yep. Good idea, but I don't know how you'd implement it. You could have your own points-based system to determine your own vote, but at the end of the day your vote doesn't count any more heavily than the vote of the guy who took ten minutes to log in, skim the pics, and cast a vote based on the prettiest picture.

I voted for the totm criteria but it should also be considered that not everyone has a really expensive camera on their hand.

Also, not everybody has a $20,000 setup, or a $1K+ fish, or a collection of the rarest, bank-breaking corals. Doesn't mean you can't do something NTOTM-worthy.

For better or worse, one thing that is being judged in the NTOTM competition is how well you (or someone you rope into taking pictures for you) can use your camera. Also, lots of people have found that they can take better pics with their phones than they can with $3000 DSLRs. The cost of the camera doesn't have to determine the quality of the representation in pictures. The skill of the user most definitely does impact the picture quality.

[dublo8]

I like the points based system. I think it should be a blind system so one could not skew the results for one of their friends for example.

[scolley]

Bump - I've requested these polls be sticky, but it has not been done. So am bumping to get up near the top.

[dixiedog]

Pictures are fine. No need to complicate this thing to death.

[rtparty]

Unfortunately, if we keep the same system we have now, things aren't going to change. All of these polls will be worthless if the tanks are judged by pictures only. He who has the best camera and camera skills, wins.

[Dixiemermaid]

I think there should be a guideline for the criteria but at the same time I don't think most will follow it which is fine.

I have my list of what I look for and others have theirs. That is what makes this hobby great.

The reason why I feel this way was no one wanted to discuss the aspects of what made that one tank the nTOTY. I had hoped for more open discussions on it but that really did not happen.

I think one area we in the reef community are far behind are the asethics of the freshwater planted community. These people discuss the correct angle of rock c in relation to rock a etc. But again they have so many rules that it does take the fun out of things at the end of the day.


:headwally: I totally feel the same way about the tank you mentioned. It was severely disappointing to see the tank owner make so light of the reason why the tank looked so totally different when pressed to give newer updated pictures after the win. Nobody was fooled by the explanation.

[Dixiemermaid]

I like the points based system. I think it should be a blind system so one could not skew the results for one of their friends for example.

I really like this idea, especially the part about it being blind. Though, if someone is just getting buddies to vote for them, they will all put high numbers. Also, inexperienced or unobservant voters may still be dazzled by the "oooohhhhh, pretty" factor. BUT, this idea is definitely a step in the right direction.

[scolley]

Bump.

To all that have voted, thanks for your participation. :)

[scolley]

Bump. Two more voting days before poll closes.

[scolley]

Ok, 10 days of voting. We've got 59 members that want to see new, clearly defined, nTOTM judging criteria, with 34 against. Looks like a solid majority for new criteria. But what should that criteria be? 39 voted for just like TOTM, a total for 20 for something else. Another solid majority.

Bottom line - it appears membership preference is nTOTMs judging criteria to be the same as TOTM. Anyone know what it is for TOTM? Or how to find out?

Please post your thoughts agreement, disagreement, or otherwise here.

[dgrimard]

some sort of criteria should be put up and not just the nicest photo