achilles tang - expert advice needed

[capo larzo]

so a very reputable lfs was having a big sale for club members and i got there early. I noticed an achilles that he had there for well over a month or two didnt have a sticker anymore and i asked him how much for it? Lets just say i got a super deal, the fish nibbles on sea veggies, showed no interest in some brine, mysis at the store. He spent his whole time there in a twenty tall on a medicated system, so hes externally free of parasites. The owner thought that if i put him in my shark pond (12'x12') that i could bring him around.
I acclimated him for two + hours and he spent most of the rest of the day in rhe turbulent waters of my return outlets.
Today he looks tired though, i need to get him eating a lot and fast.
Im picking up NLS thera flakes, romaine lettuce, spinach, and ive already offered him sea veggies.
Im hoping the very pristine, over skimmed, over filtered water will help his mental attitude and that he ll come around. Hes definitely enjoying the 144 square feet of swimming distance, but he needs calories and he needs them fast if hes going to continue to play and swim near my returns.
What else can be done.
The only other tank mates are two mated gray bamboos at a lil over a foot each, and a rehabilitating coral cat shark. theres also a large school of 100+ killi feeders. basically its very understocked.
Any advice appreciated....

[Daniel Reef]

You may want to read the Achilles Tang Primer thread for more information about feeding it.

[geaux xman]

how big is the achilles?

my 4.25" really likes PE mysis soaked in Selecon and bloodworms. nori soaked in selecon works well too.

while the big pond is nice, i think the initial QT in a decent size 29-55g tank is better. it would be easier to observe and feed the fish without the food getting lost.

[capo larzo]

I agree that a smaller tank would be better for my own qt but i figured the entire problem stemmed from the tang being confined in a smaller tank and that the cure would be the open swimming room.

[capo larzo]

Its 5-6"

[geaux xman]

yeah thats pretty good size. try out the PE mysis w/selecon and bloodworms. when i had my achilles in cupramine, he went wild over that. mine will also eat the Sally's cube foods for angels and butterflies.

g'luck.

[Shells4]

Sometimes fresh garlic juice will stimulate their appetite and helps the immune system. My tangs go crazy for anything soaked in garlic juice.

[Dr Colliebreath]

I would try a lot of different foods, and soak them in garlic extract and selcon to they are scented for the fish to find. Rods, mysis, spirulina-enhanced brine shrimp, chopped seafood from the grocery store (scallop, shrimp, fish), and a couple different types of nori.

If those don't work quickly, I would also put some live brine shrimp in to try and get the fish eating even though they aren't a long-term diet.

On the nori, try rubber-banding it to a piece of rock as sometimes them will eat foot attached to rock even if they won't eat things floating around in the water column. Tie the rock to piece of fishing line to get it in and out of the tank easily.

[Blueline12]

Are you attaching the sea veggies to a rock? They love picking rock so if you have any with algae to get them to start that would help. Use a rubber band and attach a sheet of purple sea veggies. This is your best bet to get him started.

Mine loves the purple but does also eat the green. Mine also eats formula one and formula reef flakes. Mine pretty much eats everything except for squid and clams. NLS pellets too.

[LargeAngels]

Yes, both of mine eat Formula One flakes, especially if you put it in the high water flow in a power head. It seems that anyting moving by them rapidly generates an automatic eating response. They also love to forage on algae covered rocks. One of the keys is lots of small feedings. They are very active and eat all the time.

[DragonWarriorPo]

Mine ate everything I threw in the tank, until he got ich and died.

[capo larzo]

So i took several peoples advice and i moved the achilles to a forty gallon breeder that i had cycled with the intentions of making it a display reef, so it has reef LEDs over it. Luckily it was fully cycled but for some reason it was becoming cloudy over the past few days? I was guessing a bacterial bloom but there had been no inhabitants, its fully cycled, no new ammonia source was added, hmmm. it just got cloudy? no diatoms either.
Anyway, i slowly dripped him into this new tank, it just doesnt feel right though, but i couldnt feed him or even entice him in the big pond so i hadda do what i hadda do.
Went to the LFS and picked up NLS flakes, a new bottle of Selcon, and this new stuff made by Instant Ocean thats an algae blend but its a gelly mushy like substance that you paste onto LR. Dont have it in front of me so i cant think of the name of it. Before moving the achilles i tried sea veggies and the new IO gel on a piece of LR in the pond, only response was one nibble of sea veggies and many inquisitive laps around the pond to quickly investigate the LR.
So i have seachem garlic, selcon, sea veggies, romaine lettuce, IO gel algae, Live macro algae (mostly Caluerpa sp.) but no red macro which i know is the better choice for most tangs.

A new strong powerhead wasnt in my budget today especially after the spending extravaganza yesterday during the sale, so i have three random small powerheads running in the same direction as the Rena XP3 that is the main filtration on this QT now, theres a decent current coming from that side of the tank but nothing like the 6000gph returns on the pond that mimic a Tidal pool for the shark pond. Also slapped a Super Skimmer 125 on the 40 breeder. Acclimated the fish to the new tank for two hours, first made the tank conditions (ph and SG and temp.) as close to the ponds as possible.
In he went, lights are out, theres a piece of selcon soaked veggies in the tank between a magfloat and some live macro.

How long should uneaten nori or veggies or any seaweed be kept on the clip in the tank? Does it sour the water? If so how long do you think i should keep it submerged before removing it in the tank described and filtration described above?

Thanks so much guys, i really want this fish to survive and not be just another reason to not import certain fish. My favorite fish being the bumblebee grouper, Acanthurus sp. especially Achilles comes in a very close second but ive never dared to venture into the realm of tangs. I appreciate your guidance.

[capo larzo]

I dont want to jinx myself at all but there is hope!!! I never thought the fish would eat especially after an acclimation yesterday and then another acclimation today into a smaller aquarium. The Achilles ignored everything green ie. SeaVeggies, IO algae gel, lettuce. But a half hour ago i mixed some PE freshwater Mysis, selcon and Garlic Guard and let it sit for a lil bit. I took pinches of the mysis and dropped them into the current i created to allow food to stay suspended and with each pinch the fish ate more and more mysis!! the first bite was a spit out, so were a few in between, but he ultimately ate between 10-15 vitamin soaked mysis shrimp!

I want to thank everybody who gave input today, i did a lot of reading all over the web and in my marine library collection, as well as the Achilles Primer thread and everyones posts here. Thanks guys. Ill post a pic tomorrow morning.

[Dr Colliebreath]

While tangs are herbivores, they also eat a lot of meaty foods so keep feeding the PE mysis and other meaty seafoods, including spirulina-enriched frozen brine shirmp. You can introduce veggies like seaweed/nori and spirulina flakes (I use Omega One) and the fish will start eating them over time. Keep using the garlic and selcon. After the fish is eating well, you can cut back on and eliminate the garlic, but I would soak food in the selcon a couple of times per week.

I wouldn't bother with romaine. We used to feed broccoli leaves but they are hard to offer in any quantity.

Make sure to monitor your water quality and make frequent changes as necessary as you don't want an ammonia spike. Even though the tank was cycled, the biofilter probably was limited and you just added a large bioload (the tang and the food).

I would take uneaten seaweed out of the tank after 2-3 hours. Just put small amounts in until the fish starts eating it, and only a couple of times per day.

[TNTtropical]

the key with achllies tangs is to make sure you mix up their diet, pretty much what everyone said above is correct but from experience, for the long term sucess of your fish, you will need to get him/her on a steady balanced diet in order to keep it healthy, that is one of the most important things when keep achillies tangs. Goodluck!!!

[Blueline12]

Glad to hear it is beginning to eat.

[geaux xman]

That's terrific man. It's always a happy and comforting feeling to see a fish first eat.

[capo larzo]

yea i was so relieved, atleast theres hope. Shes really skinny though.
Just tried a freshly shucked hard clam and she showed no interest, just a few inquisitive glances.

For some reason uploading files isnt working right now, i just tried to post the pics. ill give it some time and try again.

[Blueline12]

I've never seen mine interested in frozen clams or squid but he does love mysis. Stick with whatever he is starting to eat for a few days then star mixing in the sea veggies etc.

[capo larzo]

had to resize images
here they are

[capo larzo]

for some reason, the pe mysis i just defrosted were bigger than most from yesterday. she showed no interest in the big ones so now its down to enriched brine

[one clownfish]

Maybe try adding a tang that swims a lot and eats everything with him. It might trigger/get him to start competing for food. I rescued a purple and a sohal 2.5 years ago that looked like someone took an ice pick to, they had no idea how to be tangs. The owner only fed them meaty foods. I had them in a 90 qt and they only ate a few bites of mysis(not my food of choice for a tang). I thought I was going to lose them both so I took a chance and put them in the DT. It only took a few days for the other tangs to teach them how to eat nori and formula two pellets. Now they are perfectly healthy with no signs of lateral line at all. I'm positive if it wasn't for the other tangs they both would've died.

[robs.mark]

Maybe try adding a tang that swims a lot and eats everything with him. It might trigger/get him to start competing for food. I rescued a purple and a sohal 2.5 years ago that looked like someone took an ice pick to, they had no idea how to be tangs. The owner only fed them meaty foods. I had them in a 90 qt and they only ate a few bites of mysis(not my food of choice for a tang). I thought I was going to lose them both so I took a chance and put them in the DT. It only took a few days for the other tangs to teach them how to eat nori and formula two pellets. Now they are perfectly healthy with no signs of lateral line at all. I'm positive if it wasn't for the other tangs they both would've died.

I wouldn't, it will only stress the fish out.

[capo larzo]

I was thinking about adding a health Zebrasoma sp. to the tank like a medium yellow or purple. I have had success in the past with fish teaching other fish what to do.

But then i started to think about ich, and how id have to qt the Zebrasoma before i put it in this other QT with the achilles, and then still have to worry about stress and ich.

I dont know if the pros outweigh the cons.
Any other input on adding a Professor Fish to the tank.

[geaux xman]

have you tried bloodworms?

i would not add another tang. you will just add more stress and possible introduce a parasite. just be patient and keep on trying. just keep on trying what you have seen it eat.

[one clownfish]

I was thinking about adding a health Zebrasoma sp. to the tank like a medium yellow or purple. I have had success in the past with fish teaching other fish what to do.

But then i started to think about ich, and how id have to qt the Zebrasoma before i put it in this other QT with the achilles, and then still have to worry about stress and ich.

I dont know if the pros outweigh the cons.
Any other input on adding a Professor Fish to the tank.

I say go for it. I'd go to the LFS and pick out the best yellow or purple, watch them eat nori,pellets,flake and anything else he puts in there, then drop him in the QT. The longer the Achilles goes without eating the worse he is. I bet 2 weeks tops he'll be dead, dying or to the point of no return if you dont get him to start eating really soon. Your going to have them in the QT anyway, so you could take them hypo if you see they are getting the ick. Sometimes you have have to take a chance, good luck.

[capo larzo]

have not tried bloodworms yet. i will try to pick some up ASAP.

Shes grazing now. picking at the rocks, picking slowly at sea veggies, checking out but not really picking at Caluerpa. Belly is still sunken in, still see bones. But there is progress! So far every day she seems to be getting stronger and eating more. Its slow but improvement none the less!

:knock on wood: