Bionic 2 part & Copper

[fishhead79]

I was reading the ingredients of part B of the Bionic 2 part dosing system and noticed that it had copper in it. Is there enough to effect my corals? I do understand that there is different forms of copper, maybe this form is harmless. Just being pre-cautious.

[bob1968]

I been using bionic for 5 years with no problems.

[rtparty]

It is totally safe. There is copper in A LOT of the things we dose into our tanks.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While I would prefer there to not be copper in it, having it does not mean that it makes copper rise any more than having copper in a salt mix necessarily makes it rise in the aquarium (it doesn't).

I discuss it here:

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

from it:

I’ve not seen any independent test of whether these actually produce a residue equivalent to natural seawater, but I’ve seen no particular reason to doubt it, at least for the major ions. When it comes to the trace elements that might concern some reef keepers, it seems unlikely that these products will be any less prone to having uncontrolled levels of trace compounds like copper than are commercial salt mixes, or any other supplement of calcium and alkalinity, but that remains to be determined (at least as far as I know).

One issue that has confused some reefkeepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (lets call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since it has been claimed that copper is elevated in reef tanks,11,12 and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

For example:

* You have copper in your tank at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.
* You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.
* Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.
Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

[fishhead79]

While I would prefer there to not be copper in it, having it does not mean that it makes copper rise any more than having copper in a salt mix necessarily makes it rise in the aquarium (it doesn't).

I discuss it here:

How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

from it:

I’ve not seen any independent test of whether these actually produce a residue equivalent to natural seawater, but I’ve seen no particular reason to doubt it, at least for the major ions. When it comes to the trace elements that might concern some reef keepers, it seems unlikely that these products will be any less prone to having uncontrolled levels of trace compounds like copper than are commercial salt mixes, or any other supplement of calcium and alkalinity, but that remains to be determined (at least as far as I know).

One issue that has confused some reefkeepers, however, is the presence of trace elements. Assuming that these products are actually formulated with every ion such that a true natural seawater residue remained (lets call this the “ideal” product), then it will necessarily contain such ions as copper. Since it has been claimed that copper is elevated in reef tanks,11,12 and is toxic to many invertebrates, reef keepers have wrongly criticized this method as adding more copper. That’s actually not what would happen. Since these products leave a natural seawater residue, and since copper may be elevated in concentration in many reef tanks relative to seawater, then using these “ideal” products will actually LOWER copper levels because when the increase in salinity is corrected, the copper will drop.

For example:

* You have copper in your tank at 4 ppb and salinity of S=35.
* You add a two part additive that over the course of a month raises salinity to S=36, and raises copper to 4.02 ppb.
* Then you correct the salinity back to S=35 by diluting everything in the tank with fresh water, and you get a final copper concentration of 3.9 ppb.
Does this happen in real products and not “ideal” products? I have no idea. But the statement by manufacturers that it contains all ions in natural ratios, including copper, should not be viewed as a concern that it is exacerbating a heavy metal problem.

Whoa, Nice response Thank you.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing. :)