Hanna Colorimeters

[yachtdr22]

Hanna Test Instruments;
I am not impressed with the Hanna Colorimeters.
In January 2012 I purchased a Hanna Checker Phosphate PO4 Colorimeter and a Hanna Checker Calcium Colorimeter from Bulk Reef Supply. It was discovered within a week of use that the Calcium Checker is has an EXTREMLEY sensitive testing procedure that makes measurement of .01ml precisely accurate or erroneous readings will occur. It took a week of bad readings and frustration to realize that my meter was defective. Unfortunately, Bulk Reef Supply only supports the products that they sell for 3 Days!!!
After a week of phone and email support, using up almost all of the supplied reagents I find that NO, BRS will not exchange this $50.00 piece, that I needed to return it to the Manufacture. Well after almost a month, I still have NOITHING!!! Red Sea makes an easy to use and read Calcium Test Kit that works better that the Colorimeter would have if it had worked! (Have you ever tried to ACCURATLEY measure .01ml with a 1.0ml syringe? And NO, you cannot count drops because according to Hanna, Drops are not an accurate unit of measure, but using 1/10 of a gradient scale is?)
The Phosphate Colorimeter is a little different. What Phosphate level would you like? If you don’t like what it says, wait a minute and retest.. still don’t like .14 phosphate level, wait 5 min and it may show you .07 or go from .10 to .04 ??? YES… it is so easy to read a digital readout… but is the number represented accurate? It does not look like it boys and girls….
I wanted to share my frustration as I would have rather spent the $125.00 on some livestock and don’t want others to follow my woes!

[ThaBeast]

I agree Hanna should have included a better measuring syringe for the calcium checker! Try using a syringe for insulin, I can repeat my results consistently using the insulin syringe. I've never had any issues repeating my results with the po4 tester.

[skidrow52]

Getting consistent results since started using a insulin syringe

[rtparty]

My phosphate meter has been great! I wouldn't get the calcium or alkalinity testers myself. My test kits do a good enough job for me

[spankdog]

I am not too happy with my Phosphate meter but it seems to be working better lately. I have been reading anywhere from .08 to .25 in my tank so I decided to test my RO water. I measured .09 in my RODI water and then i measured .08 in distilled water. I called Hanna and they told me I should have the low range phosphate meter and not the regular one. I have started shaking/tilting the vial back and forth for 3 minutes now before i put it back in the meter for the final reading and it seems to be working better. The alkalinity meter seems to be working well is easy to use. I don't check Calcium much because its too much trouble but the numbers are usually pretty accurate.

[jbaeza83]

I have the phosphate checker and I can never get the reagent to fully dissolve before the battery saver turns off the checker. Also the reagent is kind of a pain to get out if the package, maybe they should make them into little pill-like things that dissolve quickly.

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[yachtdr22]

Thanks for the feedback about the insulin syringe. I will try that whenever i get my meter back.
For the phosphate, I use BOTH vials, 1 with just tank water, the other i put the reagent in.
I shake the reagent vial aggressively and let settle out for about 3 min or so (how long to do other tests) and then use the first vial for C1 sample, then use vial with reagent for C2 test. I have tried this repeatedly at differing time intervals. 30sec, 1min, 2min, 3min, 4min It seems that the readings will gradually decrease (1.1 down to .06 and .08 down to .04) and figured mostly due to suspended solids and the longer wait allows more to settle out. Readings get more consistent after 3 min. If you use the instructions, you know that the meter turns off after 2 min. so.....

[tmerf11]

My least favorite part is definitely trying to get the reagent to dissolve while trying to count down in my head to make sure the thing doesn't reset. But the times it has reset I usually just re-zero it out with water using the other vial and then switch. Not sure how accurrate that is, but it's only happened a couple times.

[James77]

The Phosphate Colorimeter is a little different. What Phosphate level would you like? If you don’t like what it says, wait a minute and retest.. still don’t like .14 phosphate level, wait 5 min and it may show you .07 or go from .10 to .04 ??? YES… it is so easy to read a digital readout… but is the number represented accurate? It does not look like it boys and girls….
I wanted to share my frustration as I would have rather spent the $125.00 on some livestock and don’t want others to follow my woes!

There is a range of accuracy +/- .O4 with the phospjate checker, although some of yours are out of that range. Yes, .04 is a pretty significant number, but far more accurate than a typical test kit can read IME. I use the ULR phosphorus checker and can get the exact same reading multiple times in a row. The ULR checker has an accuracy of +/- .o1 ppm if IIRC. Alot of it is being perfect in your routine....water amount, all regeant into it, all dissolved, zero fingerprints on vial with lint free rag, no air bubbles.

The Caclium checker has a thread in Hannas forum where someone came up with a easier way using diluted amounts I think, everyone responded it worked well.

Not questioning your frustration, but I have dealt with inaccurate and inconsistent tests from every other manufacturer out there, namely Salifert. I find the Hanna checkers to have a few hiccups when they first come out, but they do get solved and the vast majority report the checkers working withing their specified accuracy.

[yachtdr22]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the feedback.. I will be sure to investigate the Hanna Fourm

[shifty51008]

just so you know, your not supposed to use 2 vial's for 1 test the glass clarity can be diffrent between the 2 and can throw off your readings. hanna states that in their forum.

[James77]

No problem. Here is the thread, it starts getting helpful around post 275 or so.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2050181

Here are the 2 posts that cover the calcium checker:

Modified Hanna Ca Checker Procedure
1. Add 1.0 mL of sample water to Cuvette A of the sample cuvettes using the syringe with the green plunger.
2. Use the dropper to fill cuvette A to the 10 mL mark with deionized water. Replace the cap and invert the cuvette 3-5 times to mix and set to the side.
3. Turn the meter on by pressing the button, all segments will be displayed. When the display shows “Add”, “C1” with “Press” blinking, the meter is ready.
4. Add 1 mL of Reagent A to cuvette B using the syringe with the white plunger. Use the dropper to add 8 mL of deionized water to the cuvette. Replace the cap and invert 3-5 times to mix.
5. Place cuvette B into the meter, close the lid and press the button. When the display shows “Add”, “C2” with “Press” blinking the meter is zeroed.
6. Remove the cuvette from the meter and unscrew the cap. Fill the syringe with the green plunger to the 1 mL mark with sample from cuvette A and discard what remains in the Cuvette. Add the 1mL from cuvette A to cuvette B.
7. Add 1 packet of Reagent B to the cuvette B. Replace the cap and shake vigorously for 15 seconds or until the powder is completely dissolved. Allow air bubbles to dissipate for 15 seconds before taking a reading.
8. Place cuvette B back into the meter and close the lid. Press the button. The meter displays calcium concentration in ppm.


This method is called a serial dilution the picture below gives the basic idea
http://biology.kenyon.edu/courses/biol09/tetrahymena/serial%20dilution%201.jpg

All this means if you get to work with larger samples (1.0 ml as opposed to 0.1 ml) This means that even if you aren't perfect and use lets say 1.02-1.05 ml, you're only adding 2-5% more Ca ions instead of the 10%+ more using the Hanna 0.1ml method. Using the Hanna method each 0.01ml over the initial 0.1 ml adds 10% more Ca ions which will increase the reading by 10% and vice versa.

This also changes how the final cuvette's volume compared to the Hanna method, with this method you should have exactly 10ml in the vial instead of 10.1+, this also allows for a more accurate color reading by not diluting the crystals color.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

[DHyslop]

I bought the Ca checker and went back to Salifert. Yeah, the upgraded procedure makes it easier to get consistent results, but it still takes me longer.

The time-out on the phosphate checker is a bit of a pain, but you can plan your workflow to mitigate it. Open the packet before you even turn the checker on--cut off the top and side of the packet, then bend one side of it to make a u-shape channel from the intact corner to the cut corner. Then turn on the checker and when your calibration standard is done you'll have enough time to quickly pour in the powder and shake it up before it times out. This is a better way to do it because your results will be more precise if you're using the same vial.

I do about a half dozen phosphate tests a week and no longer have issues with it timing out. If you're real good you can use the 3:00 countdown to time a Salifert nitrate test. Time is money :)

[tmerf11]

just so you know, your not supposed to use 2 vial's for 1 test the glass clarity can be diffrent between the 2 and can throw off your readings. hanna states that in their forum.

Yeah... I knew that, but usually I'm ticked off, and don't want to open another package of reagent. Only thing that I don't like about the whole process.

[121]

I've read that the glass vials are not lab grade and aren't fully symmetrical. You have to mark the glass vial with a pen and line it up the same way each time you test in the Colorimeter or the LED light will refract, giving false readings.

If you don't line it up with the mark each time you test, the reading will be off. If that's the case, why would the marked reading be accurate? :confused:

[DHyslop]

My Hanna vials are marked with a line near the top that says 10 ml. Whenever I put a vial in I just make sure the marks are facing the front of the checker. Problem solved.

[newyorkerx]

Ditto. I am not a fan of the phosphate checker, as I don't like the workflow and it does not deliver consistent results. Now that I am using the serial dilution method described above, I feel better about the calcium checker.

[yachtdr22]

Mine is STILL @ Hanna :-(

[Utah Fatman]

Ordered me a phosphate checker from Marine Deport. It arrived on the 2nd and we tested my and my neighbor's tanks. Put the thing back in the box and up on the shelf to stay safe. Yesterday I got water out to test and did my normal test kit stuff and then opened the box for the Nahha meter only to fide the display screen not working (like a big glob on the LCD). I called marine deport they gave me an RMA number and I shipped it back. Should have a new one in a week.

[mightymizz]

Im not sure for the phosphate checker if you are supposed to vigorously shake the vial with regeant in it.?

I usually just tilt the vial back and forth gently 5 or 6 times, then place in checker for the 3 min countdown. Yes, i usually have some visible regeant in bottom of vial.

Any thoughts on this? I can usually get pretty consistent readings this way.

[Justdrew]

Instructions state to shake for 2 minutes so all reagent is dissolved.

[mightymizz]

Did they update their instructions fairly recently?

I must have missed that one about shaking for 2 mins, unless they recently changed the instructions.

Anyone know?

[mrbigshot]

for the phospahte tester go to the beer store and buy a flask funnel, they gave me mine when i bought some whisky but there ususally under $2. fits the vials perfectly and make it easy to get the reagent in there.

http://www.nexternal.com/armynavy/images/Flask-Funnel.gif

[DHyslop]

Wow! That solves a huge problem for me.

Not getting the powder in the phosphate test, but now I know how to get whiskey into my flask without spilling half of it.

[Buzz1329]

Great thread.

Someone mentioned the Hanna Ultra Low Range Phosphorus Tester, which according to Amazon is "+/-5 ppb +/-5% of reading accuracy."

Is this more accurate/reliable than the Hanna Checker?

[bertoni]

It's nominally a bit better, but we don't know whether it performs up to spec.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Great thread.

Someone mentioned the Hanna Ultra Low Range Phosphorus Tester, which according to Amazon is "+/-5 ppb +/-5% of reading accuracy."

Is this more accurate/reliable than the Hanna Checker?

It is probably +/- 5 ppb phosphorus (which equals +/- 0.015 ppm phosphate), but in some places on their web site Hanna they have listed other values in the past.

In any case, that means that any readings within a 0.03 ppm range would be considered indistinguishable.

I've been wondering whether the silicate that I and some others dose might interfere at the very low end since it is a known interferent with that method, but Hanna's tech folks didn't know.

[yachtdr22]

Hanna has refunded my defunct Ca Checker.

I have a new reagent kit and the unused part of the original packaging if anyone is interested...