whats up w DD on liveaquaria?

[ReefPharmer]

I was looking at DD and saw a powder blue tang for $100. I clicked over to the regular marine fish and saw PBT for 50-80$ and in the past I have seen them as low as 30 even I believe. What is so special about DD? I understand it is WYSIWYG but I would think if i bought a regular PBT for say 50 bucks, I am not going to suddenly receive a yellow instead. Why do they charge a premium (and sometimes a large premium) for DD fish?

[Brando457]

They're quaratined, check their site it has a link explaining theprocess

Sent from my mind.

[geaux xman]

It also depends on the size. Same size on LA is $80 bucks. I think LA did go up $10 on each size.

At my LFS, it is around $100 bucks for a 5"+ PBT. Here DD, you get a 14 day, no questions ask Guarantee. At the LFS, the 50 bucks PBT is about 3-3.5". Not to mention, most times LFS fish are ich ridden.

DD fish quality is generally top notch and eating well. I'll gladly pay 20 bucks more for a quality specimen.

JMO.

[Dakota Reef]

I believe DD tends to pull the highest quality fish to their state of the art facility in Wisconsin. I assume they get a more rigorous observation and disease prevention/treatment protocol. There is also the additional cost to ship fish to Wisconsin.

No doubt the free market is also a factor in the extra cost since it seems many people are willing to pay the premium based on DD's reputation for delivering healthy stock.

[username in use]

healthy stock,
acclimated to aquarium life,
eating well,
quarantined and treated for disease,
14 no questions guarantee
fantastic packing and shipping practices

[bamf25]

They do not release fish untile they have been quarentined for several weeks. All of their fish are treated for parasites, and observed for sings of ick and other diseases. They also make sure that all the fish are eating multiple types of food before they are shipped out. Finally, they will refund you if the fish dies in 14 days. To my knowledge, nobody else does all of this. I had the oppertunity to talk to someone that had worked at the Diver's Den facility, she said they would keep fish as long as neccesary to make sure they were healthy to go, and she had seen them keep some fish many months before they would release for sale.

[ganjero]

They do not release fish untile they have been quarentined for several weeks. All of their fish are treated for parasites, and observed for sings of ick and other diseases. They also make sure that all the fish are eating multiple types of food before they are shipped out. Finally, they will refund you if the fish dies in 14 days. To my knowledge, nobody else does all of this. I had the oppertunity to talk to someone that had worked at the Diver's Den facility, she said they would keep fish as long as neccesary to make sure they were healthy to go, and she had seen them keep some fish many months before they would release for sale.

I'm not sure how accurate or true this is. There are a few threads of people that bought fish from DD and got an outbreak of ich that wiped most of their fish. Yes fish from DD are fine specimens but I believe you are paying a premium just for getting the fish that you are seeing, nothing more than that.
You should always quarantine any new fish you get from any source.
The 14 day guarantee, IIRC goes for any fish, coral, and invertebrate that they sell.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I'm not sure how accurate or true this is.

From the Diver's Den website:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=425

Clearly, they're advertising specific (and more intense) quarantine/treatment procedures than are used at LiveAquaria. I guess you can choose to believe that it's not true but I don't see any reason to do so.

[jcw]

In that link they specify that their "quarantine" can last as short as two weeks.

Early on, I suspected, but can't know for sure, that i had ich from dd purchase. The only fish i bought were from dd in the beginning. The only thing i didn't was a hammer coral. So it could have been that. But the likelihood and timing was not likely.

I do agree, though, it's still my go to place for healthy fish and hands down best customer service.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Indeed it's one thing to claim their procedures are different/better than other vendors, but another thing to assume their procedures are going to be an all-conquering problem-solver. I'd agree with the former but not the latter.

[Cloudburst2000]

Ich is a supremely hard disease to rid fish of. It's very possible that a fish stressed from shipping (especially if put straight into DT without your own quarantine) could have an outbreak of ich, it might have even picked up the ich from the buyer's own tank. Just because the fish in the DT don't show signs of ich does not mean that it is not present in the tank. Putting a stressed fish from shipping in a tank that has ich (even if it's not showing on the fish) is a good way to give a fish that might have been ich-free the disease.

It's just that I have seen people complaining mostly about ich from DD. How do they know that their own tanks/fish weren't the culprit? Ich is a silent disease that can hang around in a tank for years before making itself known. Just because your fish don't show signs of the disease does not mean the parasite isn't there. When I buy set up new tanks, I keep the systems fallow (fishless) for a good couple months before adding any fish to make sure the ich has died out. That is the only way to make sure that ich is not present in your new tank if you used ANY live rocks or live sand. And any coral frags, etc should be quarantined too. You could introduce ich to your tank on any number of things besides fish...frags, new live rocks, used equipment, macroalgae, etc. I just think it's rather telling that the one disease people seem to be complaining about is ich. And even if DD does quarantine their fish, you should STILL quarantine them yourselves.

[BigCountry74]

And even if DD does quarantine their fish, you should STILL quarantine them yourselves.

X2

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l808rvciYm1qa5pb1o1_500.jpg

[bamf25]

They claim they are more exacting, and I have heard from several sources they are. Plus many people here have been very happy with them over the years. What I have never heard nor would suggest, is skipping your standard qt process. DD tries to give us better livestock, they may not always succeed, but utimately you need to decide your risk tolerance and what you put in your tank when.

[tkeracer619]

One thing to consider especially with ich is that your tank might already have it but its not really visible since your fish have fought it off. Add a new tang or whatnot that picks it up and starts another round of it in your tank. Happens all the time.

DD recomends you still qt their fish... at minimum to make sure they are ok after shipment more then disease problems.

[snorvich]

One thing to consider especially with ich is that your tank might already have it but its not really visible since your fish have fought it off. Add a new tang or whatnot that picks it up and starts another round of it in your tank. Happens all the time.

DD recomends you still qt their fish... at minimum to make sure they are ok after shipment more then disease problems.

Exactly. And the purpose of quarantine is more than just the prevention of parasites.

[NYCBOB]

spoke to liveaquaria and was told they qt even the fish from california.

[Cloudburst2000]

I've never had a problem with DD fish but I always quarantine them too. The 15 day guarantee is really what sells me on them. No one else offers a guarantee like that. Many places offer no guarantee. I'd rather spend a bit extra money for a fish that has a guarantee then possibly lose all my money on a fish with no guarantee.

[ReefPharmer]

I've never had a problem with DD fish but I always quarantine them too. The 15 day guarantee is really what sells me on them. No one else offers a guarantee like that. Many places offer no guarantee. I'd rather spend a bit extra money for a fish that has a guarantee then possibly lose all my money on a fish with no guarantee.

i believe they offer their guarantee on all their fish. Paying a premium for DD just because of the guarantee doesnt make sense. Now if you pay it because you think their quarantine is great, thats fine. Just dont pay extra because of he guarantee, you can get the regular fish there and get the same covg.

[Cloudburst2000]

i believe they offer their guarantee on all their fish. Paying a premium for DD just because of the guarantee doesnt make sense. Now if you pay it because you think their quarantine is great, thats fine. Just dont pay extra because of he guarantee, you can get the regular fish there and get the same covg.

I also like that they quarantine the fish. It's like a double guarantee, I guess. The pretty much guarantee healthy fish and they back it up by a 15 day guarantee. I hate having to go through the pain of nursing a sickly fish. I's rather buy a healthy one even if it is a bit more expensive.

[tkeracer619]

I have purchased a lot of finicky fish and coral on DD. I only had 1 problem and they took care of it no questions asked. A shipment must have sat on the tarmac for a while as the bags were really cold and the wrasse just didn't make it. But Cloud is right, it has nothing to do with the guarantee, its all about healthy livestock.

[Hal]

I'm not sure why people keep saying that they buy fish from DD because of the 14 day guarantee. As said by several people already, LA offers that same guaranteee on most fish that they sell outside of DD. The only exceptions are a few "difficult to keep" species.

[albano]

spoke to liveaquaria and was told they qt even the fish from california.
???? what does this mean...the fish in Calif. are at a wholesaler...were they saying that they are QT'd at/by the wholesaler?

I don't believe that for a second!

[saltysailor2329]

While I have never purchased anything from DD when I start to buy some fishi will absolutely buy from DD because of the 14 day guarantee.

[albano]

While I have never purchased anything from DD when I start to buy some fishi will absolutely buy from DD because of the 14 day guarantee.
as previously mentioned...the fish from LiveAquaria are also guaranteed for 14 days...

[tkeracer619]

And as said before. The fish coming out of DD are higher quality specimens.

You want perfect fish, order from DD.

[albano]

You want perfect fish, order from DD.
Dream on!

[jason2459]

I do not believe that DD guarantees against anything besides death in 14 days. If in 30 days a major ich outbreak occurs and wipes out your newly bought fish and several others it is not their fault. They say you should QT after arrival for many reasons. They use some meds but to my knowledge none of them are for crypto/ich or many other parasites. They use deworming meds which is great as many fish especially anthias and wrasses it is common. They observe while in QT for general health and feeding. This does not in any way mean the fish doesn't have some type of parasite.

[jason2459]

Dream on!

I wouldn't say perfect all the time. But to me they certainly offer the healthiest live stock through DD and you can be assured that they have been able to get the fish to feed on something and will not come in with a sunken gut. To me that's worth a lot. Especially for touchy fish that is tough to get eating like say a copper banded butterfly.

[michaelr]

Dream on!

i would also say perfect in the sense that you can get a fish with highly unusual color patterns that are the perfect fit for your tank. and while they are not perfect in a health sense they are definitely not bad. i mean what fish is perfect when you get it? unless you have a perfect lfs.

[nonstopfishies]

Wow, I am surprised by many of the responses here and a lot of mis-information about live aquaria and divers den.

I think the powder blue is a great example of a fish that is worth the extra cost from divers den even though they are readily available and not overly expensive. Powder blues are relatively delicate fish that don't handle stress well and are very prone to parasitic and bacterial infection. So getting a healthy powder blue for more money could actually save you money in the long run. I know that you get a 15 day guarantee either way, but sometimes it may take longer to die or to cause a major outbreak in your tank if not quarantined...

Fish coming directly from California are not quarantined in any way. They are coming from wholesalers tanks, boxed, and sent to your door.

Fish coming from divers den are "quarantined" for approximately 2 weeks before being put up for sale. They are not actively treated with anything unless the fish come in very unhealthy and are treated in a separate system. Very few fish end up treated. The fish are mostly observed to make sure they are eating and to get in good shape from the stressful process of shipping from the ocean to divers den. This means that many parasites may be present on a fish for sale, just not noticeable. Immaculate water conditions, good food, and bare tanks all help keep the parasite from taking hold within their selling systems.

Fish from divers den should always be quarantined once shipped to your house for a multitude of reasons. First, shipping is stressful and having a qt helps them handle that without other stress like food competition and aggression. Second, that stress could cause the parasites that fish may have(or your tank has) to cause an outbreak. Third, qt will allow you to get the new fish accustomed to what you will be feeding with competition. This will allow you to fatten the fish back up after it has lost lots of weight during the chain from ocean to your house.

The primary focus of divers den is not "normal" everyday fish that are sold in large quantities. It is there to sell some of the rarest fish being offered in the united states.

Another thing to consider when directly comparing fish from divers den and live aquaria is the location from which they were collected. A lot of the more common fish offered were collected from different countries than where most are imported from, though this is not always the case. Those places are generally considered higher quality than indonesia for example. The costs associated with collections that fish are Also higher which is reflected in the selling price. Regional variations in color and pattern come into play here as well.

Fish from divers den are 100% wysiwyg, which is important to a number of people. I like being able to see specific patterns in a fish. I also find it important to know exactly how bi the fish I am buying is instead of ordering a fish with a size range. If I want a 3 inch fish I can buy one and not end up with a fish that could be between 3-5 inches for example.

There are obviously extra costs involved that come with the level of care and the state of the art facility they reside in. Looking at it from a business perspective, divers den could sell only very rare/expensive fish or they could add some other more common fish for very little extra incremental cost since they ship there anyway and have the facility.

[Cloudburst2000]

I'm not sure why people keep saying that they buy fish from DD because of the 14 day guarantee. As said by several people already, LA offers that same guaranteee on most fish that they sell outside of DD. The only exceptions are a few "difficult to keep" species.

But I also like that the healthiest fish I have ever received have come from DD (aside from getting a couple fish from local reefers). The DD stock is just amazing. The 14 day guarantee is a bonus. I've never bought from just the main LA website but I have heard of people getting less than healthy fish from the regular LA but I've never really heard of it happening from DD. I buy from DD for the peace of mind that I am purchasing a very healthy fish specimen.

[Cloudburst2000]

I do not believe that DD guarantees against anything besides death in 14 days. If in 30 days a major ich outbreak occurs and wipes out your newly bought fish and several others it is not their fault. They say you should QT after arrival for many reasons. They use some meds but to my knowledge none of them are for crypto/ich or many other parasites. They use deworming meds which is great as many fish especially anthias and wrasses it is common. They observe while in QT for general health and feeding. This does not in any way mean the fish doesn't have some type of parasite.

I realize this, but I have had several fish deaths from other stores both local and on-line. So I really like the guarantee. And yes, you should quarantine ALL fish even ones from DD. And it is also possible that if you put a healthy DD fish that is stressed from shipping into a tank that has ich cysts (ich can be introduced to aquariums in many ways other than fish) on the rock, etc, that a stressed fish could potentially pick up the disease. Any stressed fish is more susceptible to ich. So there would be no way to prove if the ich came from the DD fish or your own tank. You can have ich in your tank for years without knowing it and boom...outbreak of ich. Anyhoo, that is why you quarantine any new fish regardless of where it is from.