Beckett or newer model skimmer?

[fishhead79]

I have an opportunity to purchase a beckett SK2550 for $500 with Iwaki pump. Should I? Or should I go with a newer model skimmer?

[bvoss]

Beckett's use a lot of energy. I think I would look at quiet and efficient cones. They do the same job with a lot less noise and fuss.

[chadfarmer]

if you dont do weekly maintains on a skimmer than dont get a beckett

[tkeracer619]

I would only be looking at Beckett skimmers if I had a 1500g+ tank. They do require more maintenance, use more power, and are generally noisier. Still great skimmers and really powerful. They do make a great quality skimmate. Pin wheel skimmers have really come a long way in the last few years.

Tell us about your tank for some other good options available so you can make your decision easier.

[chrisd1009]

I'm tagging along on this thread, cuz I'm beckett obsessed. Are the cone skimmers really that much better?

[Vauche]

Can't say anything about the new pin wheel skimmers or any decent pin wheel for that matter, never had a good one, but I do have a beckett (MRC-II) on my 90G.

I don't really find it that loud, it is in the room next door though, but it does suck the juice considering the pumps used for pinwheels.

I will agree that they are for the guy that likes to fiddle as they can change throughout the course of the day (i.e looking good in the morning and by the PM the water level is down about an inch). While this is irritating keep in mind it is still skimming, just very, very dry. While I find I don't have to clean every day I will have to clean the neck a couple of times a week and then pull apart maybe once a week/2 weeks to clean injectors. Takes all of 15 minutes though once you get the hang of it (this might depend on the skimmer though).

All that makes them not sound too good but I will say that mine ,at the very least, pulls out some wicked crap, black, brown, green, large chunks and, small chunks. I've never had it stop skimming for any reason other than when adding food.

So yea, every day I feed there is a little tweak to the air, usually up and yes at times it is frustrating but in the end it does what I bought it to do.

[INCEPTION7]

What size tank? For $500 you could get a great SRO cone...

[bernie lyons]

well if you have something smaller than a 150 gallons then the small pinwheels make sence . However anything above 200 gallons the becketts are really going to do a better job for the money. As you know there are much more efficient feed pumps that you can use to drive the beckett skimmers with and save alot on hydro costs. Cone skimmers to me are a big "fad" that everyone is jumping on the band wagon these days , I see absolutely no reason or "fact" that they are better than becket design's other than they use more efficient pumps for hydro savings but on larger tanks they do not pull out as much crap out as a good beckett (MTC) and the oxygenation on beckett's is damn good !

[ca1ore]

I had the big MTC-1000 beckett skimmer for many years, and while it is a superb unit, it is a big pain to clean the head-piece. I now use an ASM G3, and find it to be almost as good with much quicker clean up.

[Green Chromis]

Try the ETSS skimmers if you have a larger tank , just as good as the becketts without all the work or adjustments. Cone skimmers are good on smaller tanks and cheaper to run but they still don't pull the amount of skimmate out like an ETSS or beckett skimmer also there is a larger amount of water run through the ETSS and beckett skimmers which helps better aireate the water. :lol::fish1:

[slief]

Try the ETSS skimmers if you have a larger tank , just as good as the becketts without all the work or adjustments. Cone skimmers are good on smaller tanks and cheaper to run but they still don't pull the amount of skimmate out like an ETSS or beckett skimmer also there is a larger amount of water run through the ETSS and beckett skimmers which helps better aireate the water. :lol::fish1:


I have about 600 gallons total water volume and I'd argue that one. I had a Barr SK2550 which is a great beckett skimmer. I switched from that to an Alpha 300 cone skimmer and in all honesty, I much prefer my Alpha. Not only is the Alpha more efficient, but it's also a lot more consistant and requires much less servicing. When I say consistant, I only clean my skimmer every 6 or so months and in 3 years have never cleaned the main skimmer body itself. During that period of time, the skimmer just cranks along without issue and does so as consistantly as day 1. I have a self cleaning head so my skimmers neck is always clean. Every 6 months I clean the pumps and the collection cup/neck.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my beckett skimmer and it was definately one of the best skimmers I have ever owned but the Alpha I replaced it with is a better overall skimmer and just as capable of pulling out the gunk. Only it does it much more consitantly without having to clean the beckett valves regularly. The becketts are the one area of those skimmers that effect the consistancy and when you clean them, it takes a couple days or more for the skimmer to settle back in. I also found the air intakes get clogged or restricted easily which is another area that needs constant attention to keep them running well. The other thing I noticed with the beckett skimmer was the longer lasting effect that feeding has on them. They are much more sensitive to feeding than my Alpha.

The only skimmer I would trade my Alpha for would be a Supermarin 300.

[johnike]

I love my old Bullet II. Not loud, and pulls hard daily. Like stated before, gotta keep it clean and tweak her every once in a while.

[bernie lyons]

I have about 600 gallons total water volume and I'd argue that one. I had a Barr SK2550 which is a great beckett skimmer. I switched from that to an Alpha 300 cone skimmer and in all honesty, I much prefer my Alpha. Not only is the Alpha more efficient, but it's also a lot more consistant and requires much less servicing. When I say consistant, I only clean my skimmer every 6 or so months and in 3 years have never cleaned the main skimmer body itself. During that period of time, the skimmer just cranks along without issue and does so as consistantly as day 1. I have a self cleaning head so my skimmers neck is always clean. Every 6 months I clean the pumps and the collection cup/neck.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my beckett skimmer and it was definately one of the best skimmers I have ever owned but the Alpha I replaced it with is a better overall skimmer and just as capable of pulling out the gunk. Only it does it much more consitantly without having to clean the beckett valves regularly. The becketts are the one area of those skimmers that effect the consistancy and when you clean them, it takes a couple days or more for the skimmer to settle back in. I also found the air intakes get clogged or restricted easily which is another area that needs constant attention to keep them running well. The other thing I noticed with the beckett skimmer was the longer lasting effect that feeding has on them. They are much more sensitive to feeding than my Alpha.

The only skimmer I would trade my Alpha for would be a Supermarin 300.

I respect your personal findings between the skimmers you own , however I sold and cleaned probably more skimmers in all kinds tanks than most people here. The beckett skimmers I am most familiar with are the Marine technical concepts HSA-1000 and HSA -3000 skimmers which after cleaning worked immediately and having compared them to Deltec and H&S pinwheel skimmers ,the becketts were pulling out more gunk consistantly . Pinwheels are also a hell of alot more expensive to purchase when dealing with large tanks compared to beckett's , so the savings in electrical really don't add up at all for the larger pinwheel design's unless you are planning to keep that skimmer for at least 5 years or more to get your investment back.

[Bilk]

I have about 600 gallons total water volume and I'd argue that one. I had a Barr SK2550 which is a great beckett skimmer. I switched from that to an Alpha 300 cone skimmer and in all honesty, I much prefer my Alpha. Not only is the Alpha more efficient, but it's also a lot more consistant and requires much less servicing. When I say consistant, I only clean my skimmer every 6 or so months and in 3 years have never cleaned the main skimmer body itself. During that period of time, the skimmer just cranks along without issue and does so as consistantly as day 1. I have a self cleaning head so my skimmers neck is always clean. Every 6 months I clean the pumps and the collection cup/neck.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my beckett skimmer and it was definately one of the best skimmers I have ever owned but the Alpha I replaced it with is a better overall skimmer and just as capable of pulling out the gunk. Only it does it much more consitantly without having to clean the beckett valves regularly. The becketts are the one area of those skimmers that effect the consistancy and when you clean them, it takes a couple days or more for the skimmer to settle back in. I also found the air intakes get clogged or restricted easily which is another area that needs constant attention to keep them running well. The other thing I noticed with the beckett skimmer was the longer lasting effect that feeding has on them. They are much more sensitive to feeding than my Alpha.

The only skimmer I would trade my Alpha for would be a Supermarin 300.
I'm thinking that if one skimmer needs to be cleaned more than another on the same system, the one that needs more cleaning is doing a better job of removing junk from the water column. Just makes sense.

I picked up a used ETSS downdraft skimmer and will be putting it online on a new 200+ build. Had one years ago and it was the best skimmer I ever used.

[slief]

I'm thinking that if one skimmer needs to be cleaned more than another on the same system, the one that needs more cleaning is doing a better job of removing junk from the water column. Just makes sense.

I picked up a used ETSS downdraft skimmer and will be putting it online on a new 200+ build. Had one years ago and it was the best skimmer I ever used.

I think your thinking is wrong. If we are only talking about skimmate production I would agree however, a beckett valve vs a high end pin wheel pump or needle wheel pump such as the Red Dragon are two completely different animals when it comes to how they make their air. This cleaning I am talking about isn't about cleaning the skimmer cup or neck. It's about disassembling the intake of the skimmer and cleaning the beckett valve vs taking apart your pump and cleaning it which is the equivalent on my Alpha. I have no experienc with Deltec but I have read about them enough and don't get the feeling that their pumps are on par with the Red Dragons found on the Alpha's and BK's.

In my post, I mentioned having a self cleaning head which cleans my skimmers neck daily eliminating a lot of skimmer maintenance when it comes to gunk removal. I never got into how much skimmate I collect or how often I drain it from the collection cup but my skimmate product is on par with what I pulled using a high quality dual beckett skimmer without much of the maintenance and at a fraction of the power usage.

I should have prefaced my original post by mentioning my criteria for why I feel my current skimmer is better. At least better for my needs and better based on my experience and criteria.

First and foremost is consistency and quality of skimmate. My Alpha produces comparable skimmate quality and production with much less maintenance when compared to the dual beckett. That delta in maintenance frequency (pump cleaning vs beckett valve cleaning) is substantial when I reflect on cleaning a pair of beckett valves every month or more vs cleaning a pair of pumps every 4-6 months.

Second is efficiency when it comes to power usage. I powered my dual beckett skimmer with a big Iwaki pump that not only consumed a lot of power but also acted as a high flow heater in my tank to the point that my 1/2 HP chiller ran several times a day. By eliminating that pump when I switched to my Alpha, not only did my power usage from the skimmer pump change drop significantly but since making that change, my half HP chiller hasn't turned on in 2 years. Granted there were other changes made during that period that also played a roll but that pressure pump was a major contributor to power consumption and heat. I now use a pair a cheap walmart 8" fans on my light rack controlled by my Apex to cool things down when needed which would have been impossible with an Iwaki 100RLT powering a skimmer and chiller.

Last factor that I base my opinion on is noise. The skimmer wasn't noisy in and of itself as it was behind a closet door but when you have the pump too, it adds up to much more noise that my Alpha.

I've owned countless skimmers in my 25 years of saltwater tank keeping and I feel confident in my experience. Like I said, the beckett skimmer was one of my favorites but it's not my favorite. It's my second favorite. The Alpha with an SCH and constant sump level is a set it and forget it skimmer that will pull skimmate efficiently 24x7. The beckett skimmers will pull skimmate 24x7 as long as you clean the becketts and air intake every 2 to 4 weeks or more depending on how clean the air your skimmer breaths is or if you run air filters and depending on how often you clean those as well.

[bernie lyons]

I think your thinking is wrong. If we are only talking about skimmate production I would agree however, a beckett valve vs a high end pin wheel pump or needle wheel pump such as the Red Dragon are two completely different animals when it comes to how they make their air. This cleaning I am talking about isn't about cleaning the skimmer cup or neck. It's about disassembling the intake of the skimmer and cleaning the beckett valve vs taking apart your pump and cleaning it which is the equivalent on my Alpha. I have no experienc with Deltec but I have read about them enough and don't get the feeling that their pumps are on par with the Red Dragons found on the Alpha's and BK's.

In my post, I mentioned having a self cleaning head which cleans my skimmers neck daily eliminating a lot of skimmer maintenance when it comes to gunk removal. I never got into how much skimmate I collect or how often I drain it from the collection cup but my skimmate product is on par with what I pulled using a high quality dual beckett skimmer without much of the maintenance and at a fraction of the power usage.

I should have prefaced my original post by mentioning my criteria for why I feel my current skimmer is better. At least better for my needs and better based on my experience and criteria.

First and foremost is consistency and quality of skimmate. My Alpha produces comparable skimmate quality and production with much less maintenance when compared to the dual beckett. That delta in maintenance frequency (pump cleaning vs beckett valve cleaning) is substantial when I reflect on cleaning a pair of beckett valves every month or more vs cleaning a pair of pumps every 4-6 months.

Second is efficiency when it comes to power usage. I powered my dual beckett skimmer with a big Iwaki pump that not only consumed a lot of power but also acted as a high flow heater in my tank to the point that my 1/2 HP chiller ran several times a day. By eliminating that pump when I switched to my Alpha, not only did my power usage from the skimmer pump change drop significantly but since making that change, my half HP chiller hasn't turned on in 2 years. Granted there were other changes made during that period that also played a roll but that pressure pump was a major contributor to power consumption and heat. I now use a pair a cheap walmart 8" fans on my light rack controlled by my Apex to cool things down when needed which would have been impossible with an Iwaki 100RLT powering a skimmer and chiller.

Last factor that I base my opinion on is noise. The skimmer wasn't noisy in and of itself as it was behind a closet door but when you have the pump too, it adds up to much more noise that my Alpha.

I've owned countless skimmers in my 25 years of saltwater tank keeping and I feel confident in my experience. Like I said, the beckett skimmer was one of my favorites but it's not my favorite. It's my second favorite. The Alpha with an SCH and constant sump level is a set it and forget it skimmer that will pull skimmate efficiently 24x7. The beckett skimmers will pull skimmate 24x7 as long as you clean the becketts and air intake every 2 to 4 weeks or more depending on how clean the air your skimmer breaths is or if you run air filters and depending on how often you clean those as well.

Reliability on the red dragon pumps has not been good and are absurdly expensive for replacement costs. I know countless owners of the red dragon designed skimmers and they ended up replacing their red dragon's with chinese built pinwheel pumps at a fraction of the cost , not to mention better reliability !

[slief]

Reliability on the red dragon pumps has not been good and are absurdly expensive for replacement costs. I know countless owners of the red dragon designed skimmers and they ended up replacing their red dragon's with chinese built pinwheel pumps at a fraction of the cost , not to mention better reliability !

OK, but why haven't we heard of these countless people? Why hasn't there been a single thread on the largest reef or saltwater aquarium forum on the planet about a single one or at the very least a couple users who actually made the switch to chinese pumps on their Alpha or BK skimmers? Sure there may be a couple but there are in fact countless people who have replaced their cheap pinwheel pumps countless times. The only Red Dragon pump that I am aware of that was known to have issues was the RD2 and that pump is a thing of the past.

I'm on 3 years on my two RD pumps and they have not skipped a beat and I know of countless others who can say the same.

Now what Chinese built pinwheel pump is better quality than the RD skimmer pumps?? Inquiring minds want to know?

[bernie lyons]

OK, but why haven't we heard of these countless people? Why hasn't there been a single thread on the largest reef or saltwater aquarium forum on the planet about a single one or at the very least a couple users who actually made the switch to chinese pumps on their Alpha or BK skimmers? Sure there may be a couple but there are in fact countless people who have replaced their cheap pinwheel pumps countless times. The only Red Dragon pump that I am aware of that was known to have issues was the RD2 and that pump is a thing of the past.

I'm on 3 years on my two RD pumps and they have not skipped a beat and I know of countless others who can say the same.

Now what Chinese built pinwheel pump is better quality than the RD skimmer pumps?? Inquiring minds want to know?

The fact that someone pays the kind of money they did for a high end skimmer brand(bubble king) and then have an very expensive pump break and then having to be buy a cheaper pump because of the replacement cost of a red dragon is rediculous isn't embarrasing enough ? Having talked to some of these folks and seen the chinese pumps that they used to replace the red dragon's is proof enough for me that there were certainly problems with more than just a couple of red dragon's out there . Not everyone is comfortable to airing out their laundry on forums so they rather be discrete .

[saveafish]

I think your thinking is wrong. If we are only talking about skimmate production I would agree however, a beckett valve vs a high end pin wheel pump or needle wheel pump such as the Red Dragon are two completely different animals when it comes to how they make their air. This cleaning I am talking about isn't about cleaning the skimmer cup or neck. It's about disassembling the intake of the skimmer and cleaning the beckett valve vs taking apart your pump and cleaning it which is the equivalent on my Alpha. I have no experienc with Deltec but I have read about them enough and don't get the feeling that their pumps are on par with the Red Dragons found on the Alpha's and BK's.

In my post, I mentioned having a self cleaning head which cleans my skimmers neck daily eliminating a lot of skimmer maintenance when it comes to gunk removal. I never got into how much skimmate I collect or how often I drain it from the collection cup but my skimmate product is on par with what I pulled using a high quality dual beckett skimmer without much of the maintenance and at a fraction of the power usage.

I should have prefaced my original post by mentioning my criteria for why I feel my current skimmer is better. At least better for my needs and better based on my experience and criteria.

First and foremost is consistency and quality of skimmate. My Alpha produces comparable skimmate quality and production with much less maintenance when compared to the dual beckett. That delta in maintenance frequency (pump cleaning vs beckett valve cleaning) is substantial when I reflect on cleaning a pair of beckett valves every month or more vs cleaning a pair of pumps every 4-6 months.

Second is efficiency when it comes to power usage. I powered my dual beckett skimmer with a big Iwaki pump that not only consumed a lot of power but also acted as a high flow heater in my tank to the point that my 1/2 HP chiller ran several times a day. By eliminating that pump when I switched to my Alpha, not only did my power usage from the skimmer pump change drop significantly but since making that change, my half HP chiller hasn't turned on in 2 years. Granted there were other changes made during that period that also played a roll but that pressure pump was a major contributor to power consumption and heat. I now use a pair a cheap walmart 8" fans on my light rack controlled by my Apex to cool things down when needed which would have been impossible with an Iwaki 100RLT powering a skimmer and chiller.

Last factor that I base my opinion on is noise. The skimmer wasn't noisy in and of itself as it was behind a closet door but when you have the pump too, it adds up to much more noise that my Alpha.

I've owned countless skimmers in my 25 years of saltwater tank keeping and I feel confident in my experience. Like I said, the beckett skimmer was one of my favorites but it's not my favorite. It's my second favorite. The Alpha with an SCH and constant sump level is a set it and forget it skimmer that will pull skimmate efficiently 24x7. The beckett skimmers will pull skimmate 24x7 as long as you clean the becketts and air intake every 2 to 4 weeks or more depending on how clean the air your skimmer breaths is or if you run air filters and depending on how often you clean those as well.

God Blessed you for keeping the over rated and over priced skimmers in business...

Go Beckett. Your Redox is higher. Phosphates and Nitrates are pulled out. You do have to keep them clean. They will get DIRTY. House air will change the foam head, like the deep fryer going for that fried chicken will kill the head.

[bayoupr]

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Over the last several years I used Alpha's, ATB's, reef octo's and Bubble King skimmers (some very high dollar). There is regulator maintaince with these also like keeping salt creep out of the air venturi and if you get smell shells in the pinwheel this will affect the unit also (not knocking this type of skimmer as they did perform well). I then went to a downdraft because it is pretty much set and forget except cleaning the neck and changing the bio balls out every six months. I then tried a MRC Beckett skimmer (still running) and have been very happy with this skimmer. I had been fighting brown looking stuff on my sand and walls of my tank for months. I am running GFO and bio-pellets (this has been running with all the above type skimmers), but after three weeks of running the Beckett I am noticing less and less brown on my sand and walls. Call it coincident, but whatever is happening I am going to stick with the Beckett. I have noticed that the Beckett pulls black nasty junk which I wasn't getting from any other skimmer I owned. I have not tweaked this skimmer in over two weeks. Air draw has been steady, clean the neck once a week, my sump level is constant and I do run filter socks on my water inlet to the sump. Yes they do consume more power, add some extra heat to the tank (not much on my system), and are noisier than your pinwheel skimmers (since my sump and equipment are in the room behind the wall my tank is on I hear nothing). Anyway this is my experience with different type skimmers and what is working for me. All systems are not equal though. IMO

[slief]

God Blessed you for keeping the over rated and over priced skimmers in business...



:headwally:

I've owned Euro Reef's, Warner Marine, Reef Octopus, Barr Beckett Skimmer. Alpha 300 and several other brands of skimmers including recirculating skimmer, wood stone skimmers, venturi etc. I have a close friend who ran down draft skimmers.. They worked great until the balls clogged up and or the skimmer overflowed all over the place.

Let me put this in perspective for you on an apples to apples cost comparison since you seem so certain in your methodology. :hammer:

Alpha 300 Skimmer turn key skimmer Street $1399

MRC-4 which is what I deem to be the comparable skimmer volume wise to the Alpha 300. $819.99 but you also need a pressure pump. If you go with the cheaper Blue line pump like a Blueline 70, you have a cost of $272 for the pump. If you go with the Iwaki which would be the way I would go, you are looking at $370.00. Total cost is now up to $1189 on a skimmer that will cost 4x + per month more to run in power not including chiller usage and this is for a single beckett skimmer.

Now you can say what you want, but the cost difference is negligible, the maintenance difference is substantial and I can say from first hand experience that the end results are comparable. Of course this comparison is based on my large tank of 600+ gallons water volume. On a smaller tank, the cost analysis may yield different results.

Think what you want, but bare in mind that I do have first hand personal experience with these skimmers and I am anything but biased. I call it like I see it based on my results and long term experience. If you question my results, feel free to find my build thread here which catalogs much of my experience including plenty of information of the hardware I have used over the years.


You can call Alpha's and BK's overpriced but I couldn't disagree more. Well, the BK's are indeed expensive but my experience has proven to me that you do in fact get what you pay for in most cases.

I will point out that in spite of 40 or 50 fish, frequent feedings and 15% monthly water changes, my nitrates, PO4, etc is all 0 too.

I will also point out that I kind of come from a different place with regards to this whole skimmer and tank thing. As I said earlier, I've been doing this a long long time. I've had my current tank for more than 17 years now. 3 years ago before I replaced my sumps, skimmer, lights and pumps, my electric bill was in excess of $1100 per month and my chiller was turning on a dozen + times a day for 30+ minutes at a time. Since making that change, my power bill averages $300 a month and my chiller collects dust in the garage while having water needlessly circulated through it. I'm as cost conscious or maybe even more so than most. My overpriced skimmer has not skipped a beat and my water quality is perfect and the power savings in the last two years over a comparable beckett skimmer would have more than paid for a new pump should I have needed it.

For those mentioning the replacement costs for the pumps, if a pump truly dies, a motor block is all that is needed and is much less expensive than a complete pump assembly.


Here is my Barr Skimmer before I upgraded to a dual beckett prior to selling it.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/barr/DSC00348.jpg

My Current Alpha 300
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Sump%20rr/installed3.jpg

[biecacka]

Interesting thread. I am waiting on a custom beckett to be delivered. I really hope it is a set and forget more than ppl say but if not it is what it is. I jus want it to pull out crud from my tank!
:lol:

Corey

[slief]

Interesting thread. I am waiting on a custom beckett to be delivered. I really hope it is a set and forget more than ppl say but if not it is what it is. I jus want it to pull out crud from my tank!
:lol:

Corey

If you don't mind the extra power (pressure pump) required to drive it and you keep on eye on your skimmate production and clean the becketts as well as the intakes when you see a change, I do think you will be very pleased.

They do work great as long as you stay on top of the becketts and air intake. Hopefully your skimmer includes a dwyer air flow meter as that is a very useful tool for adjusting and determining when it's time to clean the air intake.

As I said earlier, my beckett skimmer was one of my favorite skimmers to date but my current skimmer met my current needs/requirements better and produced skimmate just as well.

[Gary Majchrzak]

nice summation, slief.

[Lavoisier]

:headwally:

I've owned Euro Reef's, Warner Marine, Reef Octopus, Barr Beckett Skimmer. Alpha 300 and several other brands of skimmers including recirculating skimmer, wood stone skimmers, venturi etc. I have a close friend who ran down draft skimmers.. They worked great until the balls clogged up and or the skimmer overflowed all over the place.

Here is my Barr Skimmer before I upgraded to a dual beckett prior to selling it.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/barr/DSC00348.jpg

My Current Alpha 300
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Sump%20rr/installed3.jpg

Your experience is persuasive. Thanks for sharing!

[biecacka]

Slief, I will look into one of those. The skimmer is a custom built GEO so ill ask him

Corey

[Salt_waterlover]

What would you guys suggest for a 100g?

[bernie lyons]

What would you guys suggest for a 100g?

Ummm...well I would guess any of the smaller pinwheel design's should work , there are too many to name so just google up any of the popular name's.

[Gary Majchrzak]

What would you guys suggest for a 100g?I think Bernie would agree there are GREAT used bargain's to be found with Beckett's

(I'm running a Beckett. Can only dream of owning a high end skimmer powered by a Red Dragon!)

[bernie lyons]

I think Bernie would agree there are GREAT used bargain's to be found with Beckett's

(I'm running a Beckett. Can only dream of owning a high end skimmer powered by a Red Dragon!)

Absolutely Gary , I agree , beckett's are a great deal used and I'm sure there are many under the sump units around...the MTC HSA-250 is such an unit IMO.
Ummm...Gary, I too thought of one day getting a bubble king /red dragon pump set up, but when you see this product in person , I couldn't justify their price whatsoever ! I'm not suggesting they don't work well , but then again having owned on of the most expensive pinwheels in the day , the HSA-3000 dual beckett just creamed them for performance !!!

[Gary Majchrzak]

I saw a HSA-3000 dual beckett in operation.
It was in a commercial facility just outside NY city. BEAST!

[ostrow]

Reading the discussion, I have to add this. ETSS are not Becketts. They require minimal cleanng. Indeed, FAR less maintenance and incomparably better skimming than any of my needlewheels. I used ATI, ER, and had a beast custom made skimmer.

I will never go away from ETSS on a large tank, frankly.

Yes, it eats power. It your concern is electrical draw then you are limited to the finicky (keep air intake clean, clean pumps, clean body, etc) needlewheels.

Of those, the new controllable ATIs look fabulous and are what I would look into.

[bernie lyons]

Reading the discussion, I have to add this. ETSS are not Becketts. They require minimal cleanng. Indeed, FAR less maintenance and incomparably better skimming than any of my needlewheels. I used ATI, ER, and had a beast custom made skimmer.

I will never go away from ETSS on a large tank, frankly.

Yes, it eats power. It your concern is electrical draw then you are limited to the finicky (keep air intake clean, clean pumps, clean body, etc) needlewheels.

Of those, the new controllable ATIs look fabulous and are what I would look into.

Interesting point my friend. I believe Sanjay (light expert) compared an older ettss but modified it with a beckett injector to his custom built bubble king 500 clone skimmer. He measured the Doc's , redox ,ect and found that his modified etss/beckett skimmer cleary beat out the Bk 500 pinwheel clone.

[shifty51008]

i've been using an mrc mr2 skimmer for a copule years now and the thing is a beast, i actually think it is way to much for my tank though. i have gotten to the point where I only run it every other week. I get no phospahtes or nitrates and usually the skimmer just idles for most of the week, so by running it every other week it gives the tank time to build up a little extra nutrients which my corals like.

[bernie lyons]

i've been using an mrc mr2 skimmer for a copule years now and the thing is a beast, i actually think it is way to much for my tank though. i have gotten to the point where I only run it every other week. I get no phospahtes or nitrates and usually the skimmer just idles for most of the week, so by running it every other week it gives the tank time to build up a little extra nutrients which my corals like.

That's interesting , when I had my monster MTC HSA-3000 dual beckett set up , it was on a 250 + gallon tank which is "nothing" for that skimmer too handle , the system was packed with corals and fish so I fed it very heavily to keep the skimmer "happy" and that's how I got away with too powerful of a skimmer. But man, was the aquarium super clean , no algea whatsoever !!!

[shifty51008]

I feed 4 times a day with dry foods, once a day with a mix between frozen mysis, and marine cusine. and a 2" sq piece of nori every other day to my fish wich include:

2 chromis
2 occ clowns
1 choc tang
2 anthisis
1 6 line wrasse
and 1 yellow head goby

the only algae i do have is some bubble algae though otherwise the tank is very clean, only have to clean the glass maybe once a week.

[Salt_waterlover]

I think Bernie would agree there are GREAT used bargain's to be found with Beckett's

(I'm running a Beckett. Can only dream of owning a high end skimmer powered by a Red Dragon!)

I mean do I necessary need a sump? I guess I just don't understand whats the purpose of it

[SaltwaterSensei]

I mean do I necessary need a sump? I guess I just don't understand whats the purpose of it

I suppose no one to run a successful reef must have a sump, but they are highly efficient and allow you to place all your filtration components external to the display tank.

Without a sump one would have to place everything in the tank or hanging off the tank. If you're keeping these animals for they're aesthetic beauty having tons of "ugly" filtration equipment all over the display would kind of defeat that purpose, as it can be distracting. Also the added water volume allows for more stability. Another really great thing about the sump, and imo is fairly important it gives you a place to dose supplements like kalk or two part. By dosing directly in the sump you don't have as high of a risk with small temporary pockets of imbalanced additives that could be stressing for the inhabitants, it allows for better mixing and dilution as it disperses through out the total water volume. at least thats my brief take on the benefits.

[Salt_waterlover]

I suppose no one to run a successful reef must have a sump, but they are highly efficient and allow you to place all your filtration components external to the display tank.

Without a sump one would have to place everything in the tank or hanging off the tank. If you're keeping these animals for they're aesthetic beauty having tons of "ugly" filtration equipment all over the display would kind of defeat that purpose, as it can be distracting. Also the added water volume allows for more stability. Another really great thing about the sump, and imo is fairly important it gives you a place to dose supplements like kalk or two part. By dosing directly in the sump you don't have as high of a risk with small temporary pockets of imbalanced additives that could be stressing for the inhabitants, it allows for better mixing and dilution as it disperses through out the total water volume. at least thats my brief take on the benefits.

That's really cool! I'm going to look more into getting one, What would be a good size for a 100g?

[McGee10]

before I moved I ran an ETSS 1000 on about 500 gal system I am so sorry I sold it. It used a lot of electric but was the most stable work horse there is. Would bring home dieing corals from shops don't think i ever lost but a hand full. just getting back in the hobby, lost touch with whats out there but by far ETSS.

[Green Chromis]

:fish1: I'm running a 600gal plus system and my electric bill is only about 35 or so dollars more a month running an ETSS 1500 and an Iwaki pressure rated pump. Yes you would save a few dollars using a cone, but why? I already have a lot of money invested, I don't think the electric bill should make a difference if the performance of the skimmer is that much better and they are. Try one of the beckets or ETSS for yourself before you put them down. :fish1:

[bernie lyons]

:fish1: I'm running a 600gal plus system and my electric bill is only about 35 or so dollars more a month running an ETSS 1500 and an Iwaki pressure rated pump. Yes you would save a few dollars using a cone, but why? I already have a lot of money invested, I don't think the electric bill should make a difference if the performance of the skimmer is that much better and they are. Try one of the beckets or ETSS for yourself before you put them down. :fish1:

Good Point ! A can't get my head around tiny cone skimmers claiming to do 200-400 gallon tanks when there reaction chamber is no bigger than 6-8 inch at the bottom and stand no higher than 24 inches? People claim they are efficient in contact time when only about 5-6 inches of water is being processed while the remaining part of the cone is foam. So where's the contact time compared to a good size beckett or downdraft skimmer ? There is very little space for good contact time with the gas (air) being banging around in the cone shape in the first place and very little water being stripped due to high amounts of air restricting the amount of water entering
into the column. So therefore I truly believe that this is all hype (fad) ! However if anyone on here can explain to me in great detail how you can process a good amount of water and maintaine a good amount of air contact
into a relatively small cone shaped skimmer and somehow out skim a beckett or downdraft design , then I'm ALL ears !

[slief]

Good Point ! A can't get my head around tiny cone skimmers claiming to do 200-400 gallon tanks when there reaction chamber is no bigger than 6-8 inch at the bottom and stand no higher than 24 inches? People claim they are efficient in contact time when only about 5-6 inches of water is being processed while the remaining part of the cone is foam. So where's the contact time compared to a good size beckett or downdraft skimmer ? There is very little space for good contact time with the gas (air) being banging around in the cone shape in the first place and very little water being stripped due to high amounts of air restricting the amount of water entering
into the column. So therefore I truly believe that this is all hype (fad) ! However if anyone on here can explain to me in great detail how you can process a good amount of water and maintaine a good amount of air contact
into a relatively small cone shaped skimmer and somehow out skim a beckett or downdraft design , then I'm ALL ears !

I would agree that many cone skimmers contact time compared to a good beckett skimmer would not be comparable and as such, the results would not be either. That said, I can however compare my old beckett skimmer to my current Alpha 300. Especially after having switched directly from beckett to my current Alpha. My old beckett was a large high end Barr Aquatics dual beckett skimmer driven by an Iwaki 100RLT and that pump generated some pretty good flow through the skimmer and I absolutely loved that skimmer. It was by far the best skimmer I ever owned in many respects up until my Alpha which I would say is comparable with the end results.

The Alpha 300 which is a pretty large skimmer (by most cone skimmer standards) holds a pretty good volume of water and has much less flow compared to my previous beckett setup. Especially when you crank up the SCH via the adjustable volutes as I have done. As such, I would expect contact times to be somewhat similar to my previous skimmer. From my aspect, I can also compare my skimmate volume as well as skimmate color and smell. I can also compare my water quality which is impeccable with 0 readings on all relative tests and good ORP levels without the need for ozone. Having gone directly from a dual beckett skimmer to my Alpha, I feel comfortable in stating that the end results are very similar in skimming ability with the upside being much greater efficiency.

Now some have stated that with the amount of money we have invested in our tanks, one shouldn't be concerned with the $30 (or whatever) a month that the beckett pumps draw in power but for me, the pumps power draw cost wise was a fraction of the savings as it spared me the power costs of having to have my chiller turn on. I went from a chiller running upwards of 12 hours a day drawing 11 amps to not having it turn on at all in 2 years since my switch. Granted there are other factors that impacted that but my Iwaki was the single biggest contributor to heat transfer in my particular tank. So when I talk about efficiency, there are other factors that I consider over and above power to drive the skimmer as the pump greatly impacted my tanks temperature and my need for a chiller.

Now there are a lot of cheap cone skimmers out there that undoubtably can't be compared to a good beckett skimmer but on the other hand, there are some good cone skimmers that can be compared. Especially if you factor in the total water volume held in the respective skimmers and the pumps water flow through the skimmer.

Having said that, I am in a different boat than many and I didn't skimp when I chose my skimmer let alone any other component in my system. Others may not have the same luxury as me.

[michaellee64]

I'm running a ETSS 900XR on about 400G total system of mixed reefs. I'm pulling out about 3 quarts a week of dark, nasty skimmate. The nastiest part is the neck & cup that I clean every other week. I literally clean a small handful of crud out of the neck and cup. I picked up the skimmer and an Iwaki MD55RLT for $300. I'm not sure that I could find anything else for that kind of money that would even come close to doing the job that this thing does. I've been running ETSS skimmers for over 6 years, and have come to the conclusion... "If it aint broke... don't fix it"

[Green Chromis]

:fish2::fish1:I have 4 Iwaki pumps on my system and 3 are 100rlt's, the temp difference increase on my system was miniscule from my previous pumps and so was the electric bill. The 100rlt on my skimmer is pushing close to 2000 gph through the skimmer which matches the flow through the sump, that is over 2 times the turn over rate per hour for my system. I use a big chiller on my system 1 1/2 hp, I need it because I live in South Florida, the tank is in wall and the fish room does not have A/C yet, I run M/H's and VHO's on the main tank and M/H on the refugium and sump. When we finish the remodel on the rest of the house I am changing the lighting to LED's and adding cental A/C to the fish room which will cut my electric bill down big time. I love my down draft skimmer and will not change it until a totally new design comes out that works better than the ETTS skimmer. I have nothing against cone skimmers, if it works for you great, and good luck with your tank, after all thats all that matters. :fish1::fish2:

[bernie lyons]

I've also used the Iwaki 100rlt on my Marine Technical Concepts HSA-3000 dual beckett skimmer and one is for sure, for what ever power they eat they sure last a lifetime and never break ! This is certainly not the case with 95% of the cone skimmers out there where you might get 2 years out of the pump than you have to buy another one. I don't get it especially on large tanks as someone here has already mentioned , the investment in the tank well exceeds the cost of operating a good skimmer .

[steve9]

I run a beckett modded etss 1000 with a dc10000 it pulls around
90 watts.
You can not look at the skimate and draw any real conclusions
from it you must test DOC levels.
The only real world test ever done was SANJAYS test on his 500 gallon
very heavy stocked tank.
The large RED DRAGON driven neddlewheel was not capable over the
month of the test of keeping his DOC in check.
The large downdraft Beckett was very impressive in the month it was tested.
If you have a very heavy fishload and keep SPS dont think for a
moment that any needlewheel you get will keep your DOC in check
so just get used to massive water changes and be happy you saved
20 a month on electric but spent 40 on extra salt.
You can not tell if your tank is slowly being poisoned by high DOC levels
it will just crash or one day you sps look like crap or you get a slime
out brake you cant control why take a chance just run the best skimmer there is.
A large downdraft Beckett skimmer .......drive it with a dc 10000 for lower energy cost.

[bernie lyons]

I run a beckett modded etss 1000 with a dc10000 it pulls around
90 watts.
You can not look at the skimate and draw any real conclusions
from it you must test DOC levels.
The only real world test ever done was SANJAYS test on his 500 gallon
very heavy stocked tank.
The large RED DRAGON driven neddlewheel was not capable over the
month of the test of keeping his DOC in check.
The large downdraft Beckett was very impressive in the month it was tested.
If you have a very heavy fishload and keep SPS dont think for a
moment that any needlewheel you get will keep your DOC in check
so just get used to massive water changes and be happy you saved
20 a month on electric but spent 40 on extra salt.
You can not tell if your tank is slowly being poisoned by high DOC levels
it will just crash or one day you sps look like crap or you get a slime
out brake you cant control why take a chance just run the best skimmer there is.
A large downdraft Beckett skimmer .......drive it with a dc 10000 for lower energy cost.

I agree with you "wholeheartedly" on this my friend. I've owned very expensive pinwheel design's in the past (Deltec ,H&S) and they did a good job because they were virtually "commercial" in their size.However , my MTC HSA-3000 cost a hell of alot less even with an excellent pressure pump (Iwaki 100RLT) and it was able to control algea and keep the SPS very healthy due to the large water turnover per hourly basis of "high air to water ratio" .

[AcroporAddict]

Beckett type skimmers are energy hogs. Good skimmers, but need regular adjustment and use way too much juice.

[bernie lyons]

Beckett type skimmers are energy hogs. Good skimmers, but need regular adjustment and use way too much juice.

No my friend your incorrect on this, there are several pumps today that are quite energy efficient that will drive beckett skimmers no problem and they are not as finicky as the first ones were.Again as several folks have pointed out , if you have a very large aquarium and an investment that costs the price of an subcompact car , skimping on a good beckett/downdraft type skimmer to get the best health out of your live stock for" little cone type" skimmers is absolute ridiculous ! Unless ofcourse , you like spending alot of time cleaning your aquarium and spending alot of money on salt mix ...Ummm ?

[ostrow]

Beckett type skimmers are energy hogs. Good skimmers, but need regular adjustment and use way too much juice.

I have not adjusted my ETSS ... Downdraft (not Beckett but see reply above) in a year. Skims like a monster.

[d2mini]

No my friend your incorrect on this, there are several pumps today that are quite energy efficient that will drive beckett skimmers no problem and they are not as finicky as the first ones were.Again as several folks have pointed out , if you have a very large aquarium and an investment that costs the price of an subcompact car , skimping on a good beckett/downdraft type skimmer to get the best health out of your live stock for" little cone type" skimmers is absolute ridiculous ! Unless ofcourse , you like spending alot of time cleaning your aquarium and spending alot of money on salt mix ...Ummm ?

Hey Bernie, could you clean out your pm box? I have a question for you and your box is full. :)

[Green Chromis]

:fish1: I have to only due a minor adjustment on my ETSS 1500 very year or so when I clean my pump and change the bio balls. Is the DC 10000 a pressure rated pump and I heard they are comming out with a 12000, if true I will look into them. It is hard to replace a pump (Iwaki) that never fails just o save a few dollars, but I am intrigued about the DC variable speed pumps for return pumps. :fish1:

[bernie lyons]

Hey Bernie, could you clean out your pm box? I have a question for you and your box is full. :)

sorry just cleaned everything out !
Cheers

[biecacka]

Bernie what pumps are you referring too?

Here is my new dilemma, budget 750$ tank size 240 gallons w about 70 more in sump. My options are custom built geo beckett or needlewheel and if so which one in that budget? Only one semi praised I see in sro5000 octopus with the bb5000 pump. I pay about .15cents per kilowatt for my energy....

Thank you everyone
Corey

[mussel and hate]

Becketts work like any other venturi skimmer. They require pumps rated for high head pressure, which require more power. The air intake clogs periodically. The venturi can become blocked.

If your skimmer is elevated above your display tank your skimmer pump can do double duty as a return(mine is set up this way, though just a conventional venturi) somewhat mitigating the extra wattage. Most people won't want to do this because :
A) It's ugly
B) It's noisy
C) Microbubbles in the DT

So if you're going to locate the skimmer in the sump I'd recommend a needlewheel or airstone skimmer. Less power, less noise. Every skimmer requires maintenance though.

[biecacka]

Yeah I am not worried much about ugliness. The set up is in my living room. Skimmer sump and all! :lol:
I'm just debating on which route to go is all

Corey

[bernie lyons]

Bernie what pumps are you referring too?

Here is my new dilemma, budget 750$ tank size 240 gallons w about 70 more in sump. My options are custom built geo beckett or needlewheel and if so which one in that budget? Only one semi praised I see in sro5000 octopus with the bb5000 pump. I pay about .15cents per kilowatt for my energy....

Thank you everyone
Corey

I would go with the beckett as your tank size requires such a skimmer.

[slief]

I would go with the beckett as your tank size requires such a skimmer.

I will humbly disagree. Tank size (in this case) has no baring on whether a beckett skimmer is or isn't required. The only requirement should be that a good effective skimmer is used and contrary to the belief of some, beckett or down draft skimmers for that matter are not the only good and or effective skimmer technologies out there. No doubt a good beckett skimmer may be more effective than most needle wheel skimmers but there are certainly a handful of well built needle wheel and or recirculating skimmers that certainly would be equally effective on his size tank. The only down side to those other skimmers would be cost as they get pretty expensive as well as the footprint because the then to have a large footprint. Where as a used beckett skimmer can be found pretty cheap minus the pump and has a smaller footprint minus the pump.

Biecacka,
If you can find a good deal on an appropriately rated beckett skimmer (it sounds like you had) and don't mind running the pressure rated pump and can deal with the noise (pump and backett valve), heat and extra power consumption that goes with that, I think you will be very pleased as long as you stay on top of your maintenance. If any of the above is a concern to you which it might be as you noted all this is going in your living room, then I would suggest you consider a BK Supermarin (likely out of your budget), Alpha, SWC or maybe even one of those new RLSS.. They jury is still out on the RLSS due to the unknown longevity of the DC pump but the overall design appears to be a very nice one.

Me, I am clearly partial to the Royal Exclusiv skimmers as I know first hand how they compare to a good beckett skimmer and I can assure you they are comparable in end result contrary to what some might suggest. I'm of the mindset that some of this comparison is like an argument between a BMW guy and a Benz guy. Both can make a very good case about which is better but they both get you from point A to point B in luxury and style. I've owned both back to back and have plenty of experience to base my opinion on.

As I said earlier in this thread, I loved my beckett skimmer but I love my current skimmer even more and for many reasons aside from the fact that it skims like a fine tuned machined with much less fuss and maintenance. Some people like to tinker with their tanks constantly.. I don't like to and if I had to, my tank would likely go to hell. I have an SCH on my skimmer and the only regular skimmer maintenance for me is draining the collection cup as needed into an attached 1 gallon container. I have a self cleaning head that scrubs my skimmers neck for 20 seconds once a day. The only time I ever remove the collection cup/neck for cleaning is every 6 or so months when my skimmers pumps get their semi annual vinegar bath. That's it and my skimmer puts out some of the stankiest stuff and does so every bit as effectively as my beckett did without the fuss. Having said that, I did pay for that as it was not a cheap setup and ultimately much more than my beckett skimmer and the Iwaki I drove it with.


If you choose to go beckett and don't mind running a chiller (you may need one), I would suggest using an oversized pressure pump. Then split the exit line with gate valves on both legs. Run it so one leg feeds the skimmer and returns to the sump while the other leg returns to the tank.

[biecacka]

Slief that is my other thing. I have a barracuda pump for a return pump already. I wish I could afford a BK or even an alpha but I just can't. :(

Yeah I'm curious on the RLSS too....
Such a tough decision to make as there is no clear answer

Corey

[d2mini]

I wish I could afford a BK or even an alpha but I just can't. :(



My Alpha 250 is for sale for only $700. ;)

[biecacka]

Yea I seen that actually few days ago. Why are you getting rid of it. You think it's too much skimmer?
I'm not sure how accurate the 350 rating is, my tank is 240 with another 70 in the sump.

What skimmer are you getting by the way

Corey

[bernie lyons]

I will humbly disagree. Tank size (in this case) has no baring on whether a beckett skimmer is or isn't required. The only requirement should be that a good effective skimmer is used and contrary to the belief of some, beckett or down draft skimmers for that matter are not the only good and or effective skimmer technologies out there. No doubt a good beckett skimmer may be more effective than most needle wheel skimmers but there are certainly a handful of well built needle wheel and or recirculating skimmers that certainly would be equally effective on his size tank. The only down side to those other skimmers would be cost as they get pretty expensive as well as the footprint because the then to have a large footprint. Where as a used beckett skimmer can be found pretty cheap minus the pump and has a smaller footprint minus the pump.

Biecacka,
If you can find a good deal on an appropriately rated beckett skimmer (it sounds like you had) and don't mind running the pressure rated pump and can deal with the noise (pump and backett valve), heat and extra power consumption that goes with that, I think you will be very pleased as long as you stay on top of your maintenance. If any of the above is a concern to you which it might be as you noted all this is going in your living room, then I would suggest you consider a BK Supermarin (likely out of your budget), Alpha, SWC or maybe even one of those new RLSS.. They jury is still out on the RLSS due to the unknown longevity of the DC pump but the overall design appears to be a very nice one.

Me, I am clearly partial to the Royal Exclusiv skimmers as I know first hand how they compare to a good beckett skimmer and I can assure you they are comparable in end result contrary to what some might suggest. I'm of the mindset that some of this comparison is like an argument between a BMW guy and a Benz guy. Both can make a very good case about which is better but they both get you from point A to point B in luxury and style. I've owned both back to back and have plenty of experience to base my opinion on.

As I said earlier in this thread, I loved my beckett skimmer but I love my current skimmer even more and for many reasons aside from the fact that it skims like a fine tuned machined with much less fuss and maintenance. Some people like to tinker with their tanks constantly.. I don't like to and if I had to, my tank would likely go to hell. I have an SCH on my skimmer and the only regular skimmer maintenance for me is draining the collection cup as needed into an attached 1 gallon container. I have a self cleaning head that scrubs my skimmers neck for 20 seconds once a day. The only time I ever remove the collection cup/neck for cleaning is every 6 or so months when my skimmers pumps get their semi annual vinegar bath. That's it and my skimmer puts out some of the stankiest stuff and does so every bit as effectively as my beckett did without the fuss. Having said that, I did pay for that as it was not a cheap setup and ultimately much more than my beckett skimmer and the Iwaki I drove it with.


If you choose to go beckett and don't mind running a chiller (you may need one), I would suggest using an oversized pressure pump. Then split the exit line with gate valves on both legs. Run it so one leg feeds the skimmer and returns to the sump while the other leg returns to the tank.

Well once again , it is only YOUR opinion, regardless of your experience between the beckett and the royal exclusive pinwheel , I to (along with other hobbiest) have been in the retail/wholesale bussiness and as well ,long time hobbiest, therefore my experience has showed the opposite of yours.
I have owned some very expensive pinwheels in the past and they indeed worked well albiet paying a very high price for them. The beckett design I switched over to (MTC HSA-3000 dual beckett) proved to be every bit as effective and in fact reduced my work load in cleaning my tank quite a bit. Therefore I am recommending beckett skimmers based on my extensive knowledge and pratice in the business.
I have a hard time believing that your tank would have gone to crap if you didn't tinker with your beckett skimmer...Ummm, don't buy it .
More like tinkering inside your tank more often than not using pinwheel desighn's vs beckett's ...this is based on my extensive experience.

[slief]

Well once again , it is only YOUR opinion, regardless of your experience between the beckett and the royal exclusive pinwheel , I to (along with other hobbiest) have been in the retail/wholesale bussiness and as well ,long time hobbiest, therefore my experience has showed the opposite of yours.
I have owned some very expensive pinwheels in the past and they indeed worked well albiet paying a very high price for them. The beckett design I switched over to (MTC HSA-3000 dual beckett) proved to be every bit as effective and in fact reduced my work load in cleaning my tank quite a bit. Therefore I am recommending beckett skimmers based on my extensive knowledge and pratice in the business.

I appreciate your clarified opinion. I can also completely understand your position as I like beckett skimmers too. I just feel that a small few pin wheel skimmers can perform on par with a good beckett skimmer and as such feel they can't all be written off as a viable option. As we both can probably agree, you will spend a lot of money up front on a high end pin wheel skimmer to achieve similar results but similar results are certainly obtainable. I personally don't mind spending money up front to save down the line. Some people don't have the luxury of that option. For me it worked out well both in the long and short run and fortunately, my expectations were exceeded on every front.

Having said that, if I didn't mind doing the weekly or more frequent skimmer maintenance aspect and was keeping my filtration in a warehouse where power consumption and noise were not an issue, I would certainly give strong consideration to another beckett skimmer. My needs however changed and I am more than happy with the health of my tank and the end results.

[biecacka]

Right, I see both sides. It will cost me about 12$ more a month to run the pump on the beckett. I won't need a chiller so that is my cost difference. It will take many months to offset the up front cost of a high end skimmer @12$ a month. But they are less maintenance too.
Ay input on the SSS series, RLSS, or the atb line of skimmers? Are they worth considering? I mean I hear the bubble blaster pump,is a knock off of the red dragon...
Corey

[slief]

Right, I see both sides. It will cost me about 12$ more a month to run the pump on the beckett. I won't need a chiller so that is my cost difference. It will take many months to offset the up front cost of a high end skimmer @12$ a month. But they are less maintenance too.
Ay input on the SSS series, RLSS, or the atb line of skimmers? Are they worth considering? I mean I hear the bubble blaster pump,is a knock off of the red dragon...
Corey

There are many factors in not needing a chiller so I should probably clarify. Lighting can have a big impact, return pump and skimmer pump. All of which can and will generate heat. If you plan ahead and choose the right combination of pumps and lights the savings can be exponential when it comes to power and even upfront costs to some degree.

I don't know about you but I use a lot of power in my home. Between fish tank, AC, appliances, TV's etc, I end up in a very high KWh cost tier. If your power usage puts you in a higher tier like mine does, you will pay much higher percentage KPh over base than you might expect and every tier you exceed costs even more per KWh. End result for me is that my tank is doing better than it ever has before and the difference in the noise it makes which used to resonate into my bedroom upstairs is dumb founding. The money my overall changes saved me in the last 2 years.... Well that's just priceless.

[ostrow]

Again, I don't know about becketts but ETSS are maintenance free. So $12/mo more and the ease of use.

[bernie lyons]

:fish1: I have to only due a minor adjustment on my ETSS 1500 very year or so when I clean my pump and change the bio balls. Is the DC 10000 a pressure rated pump and I heard they are comming out with a 12000, if true I will look into them. It is hard to replace a pump (Iwaki) that never fails just o save a few dollars, but I am intrigued about the DC variable speed pumps for return pumps. :fish1:

Just curious ,have you ever played around with the idea of modifying your etss with a beckett nozzle?

Respectfully
Bernie

[SDguy]

I loved my MRC beckett, but the power consumption, living in CA, was killing me. Also the becketts were constantly needing cleaning. The new cone pinwheel skimmers are amazing. I have a SWC300 on my FOWLR and a Vertex Alpha 250 on my soon to be reborn reef :) Ahhhh... the silence :D

[johnike]

Otis approved...
:)
http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p361/john_eichwedel/001-65.jpg (http://s345.photobucket.com/user/john_eichwedel/media/001-65.jpg.html)

[steve9]

A deep blue triton 5 pump pulled only 35watts on my
2foot high beckett skimmer i used to run.
Anybody running a small beckett will be surprised
by the power of this cheap pump....it was as good as
my blueline but pulled a 100 less watts.
The triton 5 and the dc 10000 are game changers
for single beckett skimmers.
On short dual becketts 2 triton5 pumps would pull
70 watts a far cry from whats being used now.

[bernie lyons]

A deep blue triton 5 pump pulled only 35watts on my
2foot high beckett skimmer i used to run.
Anybody running a small beckett will be surprised
by the power of this cheap pump....it was as good as
my blueline but pulled a 100 less watts.
The triton 5 and the dc 10000 are game changers
for single beckett skimmers.
On short dual becketts 2 triton5 pumps would pull
70 watts a far cry from whats being used now.

Thanks Steve for the info, now I don't see any reason for someone not considering a beckett skimmer with these types of pumps. The becketts will give the superior skimming over the pinwheels by keeping the DOC's lower and you can put "muffler" type silencers over the air intakes to keep the noise down quite a bit.

[Green Chromis]

:fish1: Hi Bernie, where can I purchase a beckett, and what brand would you suggest? Do you need some type of device to monitor the air intake? Also would you still use the Bio - Balls with the skimmer after the mod? :fish1:

[bernie lyons]

:fish1: Hi Bernie, where can I purchase a beckett, and what brand would you suggest? Do you need some type of device to monitor the air intake? Also would you still use the Bio - Balls with the skimmer after the mod? :fish1:

I believe you can probably purchase a beckett nozzle at the garden centre's. I have no experience with the AEtech skimmers so I'm not sure whether the bioballs would be of any advantage using an beckett nozzle. The best person too get in contact with is Sanjay Joshi as he modified his etss with a beckett nozzle and still uses it today on his beautiful 500 gallon reef tank -one of the nicest tanks you'll ever see by the way !

[Green Chromis]

Thanks Bernie.

[biecacka]

Bernie, you can't use these DC1000 pumps on a becket can you?

Corey

[bernie lyons]

Bernie, you can't use these DC1000 pumps on a becket can you?

Corey

My only experience with the dc10000 is on a small beckett skimmer , however i can't comment on the larger beckett skimmers. someone here I believe has tried another pump design that seems to work well on becketts and has low wattage.

[biecacka]

I'd be curious to hear of it. I am considering a beckett for my 240. Not that big a tank really but bigger than requirements for a small beckett

Corey

[jimmyj7090]

I have a diablo DC10500 (rated at 2775gph at 0 head) which is virtually identical to the DC10000. I replaced an Iwaki MD55 (1500gph at 0 head) with it. The DC pump is very quiet and uses a lot less electricity, but it pushes a good bit less flow through the same (3/4") plumbing I had the iwaki connected to.

Point being, the DC pumps definately are not pressure pumps....

[biecacka]

^^^^right. Tat is where I'm headed with it. A guy local to me had a dart on a beckett and it worked but not near as efficient as when he had the pressure pump on it

Corey

[LobsterOfJustice]

I have had two becketts (a DIY MRC knockoff, and a MRC) and a needlewheel (Octopus Pro 300). Love the needlewheel. I could not get consistent production out of the becketts... by the time I got it dialed in (3-4 days) it needed to be taken apart and cleaned again. The injector had to be cleaned of little critter shells at least twice a week. And the air intake, and the huge pump needed to run them are LOUD!

After years of running becketts, when I plugged in my needlewheel for the first time it was so quiet I literally spent several seconds trying to troubleshoot why (I thought) it hadn't come on. The needlewheel is super consistent. Maybe its because I could never (after two skimmers and several years) get a beckett dialed "in the zone" for more than a week, but my needlewheel pulls out nastier stuff. My skimmate never stunk with the becketts... now I have to clean the skimmer cup out when my wife isnt home. I used to like becketts too... until I got a nice needlewheel.

[bernie lyons]

I have had two becketts (a DIY MRC knockoff, and a MRC) and a needlewheel (Octopus Pro 300). Love the needlewheel. I could not get consistent production out of the becketts... by the time I got it dialed in (3-4 days) it needed to be taken apart and cleaned again. The injector had to be cleaned of little critter shells at least twice a week. And the air intake, and the huge pump needed to run them are LOUD!

After years of running becketts, when I plugged in my needlewheel for the first time it was so quiet I literally spent several seconds trying to troubleshoot why (I thought) it hadn't come on. The needlewheel is super consistent. Maybe its because I could never (after two skimmers and several years) get a beckett dialed "in the zone" for more than a week, but my needlewheel pulls out nastier stuff. My skimmate never stunk with the becketts... now I have to clean the skimmer cup out when my wife isnt home. I used to like becketts too... until I got a nice needlewheel.

Unfortunetaly you experience does not parallel mine with becketts. I've owned very expensive needlewheels and bought a dual beckett MTC HSA-3000 skimmer and it was super easy to dial in the air and never had an issue with keeping the water levels perfect. Maybe the mrc at the time was not as stable and easy to adjust as it is today...they did change their design lately . However the loudness you complained about is easily muffled with the latest mufflers available so it may not be as quiet as a pinwheel but certainly acceptable. One thing that I have come to realize is that the skimming ability of the beckett that I owned compared to the larger pinwheels that I have also worked with is that the tank is alot cleaner looking in appearance and the brown (diatoms) that use to build up on my previous tank stop showing up on the gravel with the beckett skimmer running compared to the large pinwheel skimmers . So as far as my experiences with both technologies the beckett design wins and is far cheaper too purchase than the current big pinwheel designs that are out there;plus the pressure rated pump I ran my beckett with would last me a lifetime of use compared to the smaller pinwheel pumps that last maybe 3 yaers at best than having to throw them out ! Oh and talking about removing shells from beckett nozzles , well you have to strip down your pinwheel pump down as well to get at the shells stuck in the pinwheel itself which is a hell of alot more labour than cleaning the beckett nozzle !

[jimmyj7090]

I have had two becketts (a DIY MRC knockoff, and a MRC) and a needlewheel (Octopus Pro 300). Love the needlewheel. I could not get consistent production out of the becketts... by the time I got it dialed in (3-4 days) it needed to be taken apart and cleaned again. The injector had to be cleaned of little critter shells at least twice a week. And the air intake, and the huge pump needed to run them are LOUD!

After years of running becketts, when I plugged in my needlewheel for the first time it was so quiet I literally spent several seconds trying to troubleshoot why (I thought) it hadn't come on. The needlewheel is super consistent. Maybe its because I could never (after two skimmers and several years) get a beckett dialed "in the zone" for more than a week, but my needlewheel pulls out nastier stuff. My skimmate never stunk with the becketts... now I have to clean the skimmer cup out when my wife isnt home. I used to like becketts too... until I got a nice needlewheel.

My experience has been very similar to this ^. My beckett experience comes from a PM bullet 2 that I ran for quite a few yrs, and on several different pumps. For needlewheels I have run euroreef, reeflo, reefoctopuss, avast, and currrently a RLSS.
I was able to quiet the beckett easily enough with a DIY silencer, but I also needed to clean the beckett injector quite frequently and found it's output to be on/off. Sometimes it would work well, but a lot of the time it would seem to sit idle for days then go nuts.
Some of the needle wheels worked better than others for me, but all of them have seemed to be easier to live with than the beckett.


Bernie, I wonder what needle wheels you have used? These days there are some pretty amazing ones that aren't all that large or costly. Going back a bit I'm remembering the big euroreef and deltecs that all seemed to cost a small fortune, had about a half dozen pumps, and had giant footprints. Not doubting your experiences, just wondering about the specifics. There sure are a lot of different needlewheel skimmers out there....

[bernie lyons]

My experience has been very similar to this ^. My beckett experience comes from a PM bullet 2 that I ran for quite a few yrs, and on several different pumps. For needlewheels I have run euroreef, reeflo, reefoctopuss, avast, and currrently a RLSS.
I was able to quiet the beckett easily enough with a DIY silencer, but I also needed to clean the beckett injector quite frequently and found it's output to be on/off. Sometimes it would work well, but a lot of the time it would seem to sit idle for days then go nuts.
Some of the needle wheels worked better than others for me, but all of them have seemed to be easier to live with than the beckett.


Bernie, I wonder what needle wheels you have used? These days there are some pretty amazing ones that aren't all that large or costly. Going back a bit I'm remembering the big euroreef and deltecs that all seemed to cost a small fortune, had about a half dozen pumps, and had giant footprints. Not doubting your experiences, just wondering about the specifics. There sure are a lot of different needlewheel skimmers out there....

The needlewheels I used were large deltec ap-1003/4 and a monster H&S 450 , both were external units and worked well except the cost of these skimmers was very high. Again, the marine technical concepts beckett skimmers I used were not fussy whatsoever, so based on what you were using ,I'd say the bullet isn't in the same league as the MTC .
I am very familiar with the bubblekings and alpha's ect (I know of store that has used them extensively and compared to the mtc beckett they had on hand) the bubblekings perfomance was not better. I'm not suggesting they don't do a decent job , but I know of beckett design's that perform better on a large tank and cost alot less. The best example of a large pinwheel vs a downdraft modified beckett comparison is when sanjay joshi did a full blown shoot out and to this day he is still using his beckett/etss skimmer on his beautiful 500 sps/acan tank. Anyways if the skimmer you are using now works for you , great, it is a matter of preference to what you want out of a skimmer so that's what matters !

[biecacka]

Bernie what beckett do you use. I was looking at a custom GEO one

Corey

[bernie lyons]

Bernie what beckett do you use. I was looking at a custom GEO one

Corey

The beckett skimmer I favor is the marine technical concepts ,you can punch them up on google.

cheers

[tonyf]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/tfendt/IMG_0254.jpg

My old twin beckett home made run by a 16000L/hr Laguna pump ... it was awesome but loud and required frequent maintenance. Each beckett had a airflow meter which was the basis of deciding beckett cleaning ... when air dropped below 2100L/hr in each.

The current skimmer is a large ATB Deluxe Cone ... the neck gets cleaned 2'ce a week and the pump once a year ... and very quiet. Equally awesome kit.

[McGee10]

I have a diablo DC10500 (rated at 2775gph at 0 head) which is virtually identical to the DC10000. I replaced an Iwaki MD55 (1500gph at 0 head) with it. The DC pump is very quiet and uses a lot less electricity, but it pushes a good bit less flow through the same (3/4") plumbing I had the iwaki connected to.

Point being, the DC pumps definately are not pressure pumps....

Sorry for jumping in, but felt like some things were being missed. Please don't forget that the becket has been proven to remove phosphates and because of that I don't think we are comparing apples to apples my point is the becket draws more power but does more, you get what you pay for.

Just my two cents

[jimmyj7090]

Fair enough. I was just saying that those DC pumps may not be the "too good to be true" pumps that would drive becketts well without using the extra electricity of a real pressure pump.

[biecacka]

Went ahead and got a beckett ordered. It's almost done. Pump recommendations for it, 240 gallon tank

Corey

[azjohnny]

Went ahead and got a beckett ordered. It's almost done. Pump recommendations for it, 240 gallon tank

Corey

Which Beckett did you order? i have a tank upgrade ( 300-400gal DT) planned and thinking about a MRC 3 or 4.

[biecacka]

Custom GEO. http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/2dc054d85b121f0d761f9e781e2b6eea.jpg

Email him at geos.reef. He build quality equipment

Corey

[bernie lyons]

Custom GEO. http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/2dc054d85b121f0d761f9e781e2b6eea.jpg

Email him at geos.reef. He build quality equipment

Corey

congradulations on your new skimmer Corey , let us know how it's running on your system.

[biecacka]

Thanks Bernie! I am sure I will be pm'ing you for some insight on how run it and tune it. I can't wait to get it and my new tank!!

Corey

[d2mini]

Looks awesome, Corey! Good luck!

[biecacka]

Thanks Dennis! This was my original plan but for a brief moment I considered going another route. I considered buying your vertex, then I thought about reef octopus and life skimmer.
Then GEO sent me a pic of my finished skimmer so he made my mind up for me. I'm super stoked

Corey

[steve9]

I have a ten foot head going to my ETSS 1000 beckett mod skimmer.
I have a speedwave[dc10000 copy]that easily pulls 44 on a DYWER.
You should always have any beckett running between 24 to 44 on
your meter.
If you can get 44 then your pump has all the power you need anything more
and its a waste.
On smaller tanks or large lightly stocked tanks i fine a very high water
combined with a low air pull[22/24] creates a very stable head and
works well.
Your new beckett is a very low rise model which will run great on the TRITON
pump i have used......expect low 30s for power draw.
A dc10000 will work great and give you some flexibility with its different
settings and low sound levels but draws up to 90 watts.
If sound levels are of no concern get the triton.

[biecacka]

I was considering a panworld 100px-x that I can pick up cheap local from a guy. I will check out that triton pump any other recommendations
Do you have a link for those pumps?

Corey

[ridetheducati]

I have a ten foot head going to my ETSS 1000 beckett mod skimmer.
I have a speedwave[dc10000 copy]that easily pulls 44 on a DYWER.
You should always have any beckett running between 24 to 44 on
your meter.
If you can get 44 then your pump has all the power you need anything more
and its a waste.
On smaller tanks or large lightly stocked tanks i fine a very high water
combined with a low air pull[22/24] creates a very stable head and
works well.
Your new beckett is a very low rise model which will run great on the TRITON
pump i have used......expect low 30s for power draw.
A dc10000 will work great and give you some flexibility with its different
settings and low sound levels but draws up to 90 watts.
If sound levels are of no concern get the triton.

Steve are you talking 24 to 44 SCFH or Liters per minute? I ask because a skimmer pulling 44 L/min is OUTSTANDING, beast mode. My meshwheel (Sicci 2500) pulls 20 L/min.

[steve9]

SCFH is what my DYWER reads......
You really need a DWYER in my experience to
set up a beckett.
More is not always better when it pertains to
SCFH air pull.
The etss 1000 will easily pull 100 scfh but i prefer
it beckett modded and only pulling 44 it just works
better to me setup that way.

[steve9]

https://www.google.com/search?q=trition+5+deepblue&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#q=triton+5+deepblue&client=firefox-a&hs=lzs&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=_AbzUZzmPIW64AO9-oDoAQ&ved=0CLABELMY&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.49784469%2Cd.dmg%2Cpv.xjs.s.en_US.MpiVkF51mpA.O&fp=cb1b7bed1170070&biw=1524&bih=758

TRITON 5 .........I have 2 of these 1 has been running as my return for a year......love them.
The back pressure from the beckett will cause the triton to pull under 40 watts.
Speedwave is around for 199.99 and very silent as pumps go......love mine as well.
The speedwave dosent drop its watt draw due to backpressure i measured
90 watts on full blast your setup should not require the high setting
as i have a very tall skimmer with a 10 foot head i would expect
60/70 watts on setting 4 or so.

[biecacka]

How do you hunk that pump is compared to the panworld pump?

Corey

[slief]

You really need a DWYER in my experience to
set up a beckett.
More is not always better when it pertains to
SCFH air pull.


+1. A Dwyer is a must have with a beckett. I've used small gate valves before but they are no where near as easy to dial in than the Dwyer. The SCFH meter itself is a great reference point for when the becketts need cleaning as well as reference points for optimal adjustment.

There is a point of diminishing return when it comes to SCFH. There is a point where the bubbles get too large and become less efficient resulting in wet skimmate, an unstable head and potential overflows.

[biecacka]

Can you post a link to the one you used?
Thanks

Corey

[slief]

Can you post a link to the one you used?
Thanks

Corey

I'd suggest a 5" RMB series. You want one that meters from 5 to 50 SCFH which should be more than enough. Anything smaller than the 5" is not ideal and the 10" is overkill in my opinion for most beckett skimmers.
http://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/Flow/Flowmeters/VariableArea/SeriesRM-RMA-RMB-RMC-/Ordering

I would suggest the RMB-52-SSV.

[steve9]

When i ran panworlds they and 2part dosing were a bad mix.
Every month needed cleaning or they stopped working.
The 2 pumps i have posted about are way better in my experience
for the BECKETT.
I have run just about every skimmer there is over 25 years and
the pumps are really the key to becketts.
Take advantage of the DC pumps or the TRITION 5 they are so
much better then the Panworld/Mags that i used in the past.
For most single beckett skimmers i would stick to these 2 there are
alot of new pumps out there like a WATER BLASTER but the low
power draw for me is the difference for the DC or DB5.

[azjohnny]

When i ran panworlds they and 2part dosing were a bad mix.
Every month needed cleaning or they stopped working.
The 2 pumps i have posted about are way better in my experience
for the BECKETT.
I have run just about every skimmer there is over 25 years and
the pumps are really the key to becketts.
Take advantage of the DC pumps or the TRITION 5 they are so
much better then the Panworld/Mags that i used in the past.
For most single beckett skimmers i would stick to these 2 there are
alot of new pumps out there like a WATER BLASTER but the low
power draw for me is the difference for the DC or DB5.

What makes the Triton 5 so good for a Beckett skimmer, looks to be as powerful as a Sicce 5

[patchesj]

I run a beckett modded etss 1000 with a dc10000 it pulls around
90 watts.
You can not look at the skimate and draw any real conclusions
from it you must test DOC levels.
The only real world test ever done was SANJAYS test on his 500 gallon
very heavy stocked tank.
The large RED DRAGON driven neddlewheel was not capable over the
month of the test of keeping his DOC in check.
The large downdraft Beckett was very impressive in the month it was tested.
If you have a very heavy fishload and keep SPS dont think for a
moment that any needlewheel you get will keep your DOC in check
so just get used to massive water changes and be happy you saved
20 a month on electric but spent 40 on extra salt.
You can not tell if your tank is slowly being poisoned by high DOC levels
it will just crash or one day you sps look like crap or you get a slime
out brake you cant control why take a chance just run the best skimmer there is.
A large downdraft Beckett skimmer .......drive it with a dc 10000 for lower energy cost.

Where can I find more info on SANJAY's downdraft? That picture looks nearly identical to a downdraft I built 15-20 years ago....

[biecacka]

Don't the becketts work best w pressure pumps

Corey

[slief]

Don't the becketts work best w pressure pumps

Corey

Yes. Beckett valves are designed to work with pressure pumps due to their restrictive nature as well as their requirement for high flow under pressure. You can drive them with a non pressure pump however the valves, especially on larger beckett skimmers won't operate properly. When I say not operating properly, I'm not only talking about SCFH draw but also the size of the airbubbles. Without the proper pump, the bubbles will likely be larger than they should be which results in less tham optimal performance.

If I were running a single beckett skimmer, the only pump I would really consider would be a 55RLT Iwaki or a 100RLT for a dual Beckett (unless my manufacturer suggested otherwise) which is what I ran when I had my beckett skimmer. Iwaki's are arguably the best pressure pumps out there but they are power hungry and generate a fair amount of heat transfer. There are other pumps with similar specs but I'd argue that none are as reliable as the Iwaki. People will run what ever they have but that doesn't make them ideal. I'd strongly suggest following your skimmer manufacturers pump suggestion and not wasting time with experiments.

[patchesj]

People will run what ever they have but that doesn't make them ideal. I'd strongly suggest following your skimmer manufacturers pump suggestion and not wasting time with experiments.

I think most people don't realize the variation in pump performance. Every skimmer is going to be slightly different pressure and require different flow at that pressure. Pump selection is critical (regardless of skimmer type).

[ridetheducati]

If I were running a single beckett skimmer, the only pump I would really consider would be a 55RLT Iwaki or a 100RLT for a dual Beckett (unless my manufacturer suggested otherwise) which is what I ran when I had my beckett skimmer. Iwaki's are arguably the best pressure pumps out there but they are power hungry and generate a fair amount of heat transfer.

+1k

[ridetheducati]

All measurements made with Dwyer RMA-22, which measures 1-50 SCFH.

Note: Only one pump on a multi-pump skimmer was tested. For example, the H&S Skimmer has two Eheim 1260s, each pump pulls 45 SCFH, totally 90 SCFH.

SCFH / Liters per minute

26 12.275 (ASM G4 with Sedra 9000)
32 15.107 (BM200 Sicce PSK 2500 with Purple or White Pinwheel) (Deltec TC 2060)
40 18.884
41 19.356
42 19.828
43 20.300 (Sicce PSK 2500 with modified mesh wheel)
44 20.772
45 21.245 (H&S Eheim 1260)
100 47.210

[bernie lyons]

Yes. Beckett valves are designed to work with pressure pumps due to their restrictive nature as well as their requirement for high flow under pressure. You can drive them with a non pressure pump however the valves, especially on larger beckett skimmers won't operate properly. When I say not operating properly, I'm not only talking about SCFH draw but also the size of the airbubbles. Without the proper pump, the bubbles will likely be larger than they should be which results in less tham optimal performance.

If I were running a single beckett skimmer, the only pump I would really consider would be a 55RLT Iwaki or a 100RLT for a dual Beckett (unless my manufacturer suggested otherwise) which is what I ran when I had my beckett skimmer. Iwaki's are arguably the best pressure pumps out there but they are power hungry and generate a fair amount of heat transfer. There are other pumps with similar specs but I'd argue that none are as reliable as the Iwaki. People will run what ever they have but that doesn't make them ideal. I'd strongly suggest following your skimmer manufacturers pump suggestion and not wasting time with experiments.

I agree with slief on this one . Pressure pumps are the ideal pump for beckett's in general , however some folks have been able to get good performance from magnetic design's. My extensive experience with beckett's and pinwheels tells me that an excellent pressure pump such as the Iwaki will last you for a "lifetime" of service. However the pinwheel skimmers use much "lower" quality pumps and will eventually need either a replacement pinwheel or a new pump altogether...in most cases ,it seems every two years is the general "lifetime" for these lower quality pinwheel pumps.

[bernie lyons]

+1. A Dwyer is a must have with a beckett. I've used small gate valves before but they are no where near as easy to dial in than the Dwyer. The SCFH meter itself is a great reference point for when the becketts need cleaning as well as reference points for optimal adjustment.

There is a point of diminishing return when it comes to SCFH. There is a point where the bubbles get too large and become less efficient resulting in wet skimmate, an unstable head and potential overflows.

Disagree with on this one ! If that's true then EVERY cone skimmer needs a dwyer meter as well ! How many people have complained about either overflow issue's or light skimmate coming out of their cone skimmers? The problem with this design is that the manufacture decided to "brag" about how much air they can produce and shove it into a small bodied skimmer with about 5-6 inches of reaction tube and then squeeze the snot of all this air into a funnel hoping for skimmate production to happen ? This was a "short sightedness" on the design from the manufactures part in my humble opinion ! This is why I question the notion that an meter is an absolute must for beckett skimmers to make them operate properly ? I've been using beckett's for over 10 years and never onece used an meter , as long as their is an "air valve" attached ( ALL skimmers should have this) you can literly guage the bubble size as you turn down the valve..I have done this with great success ! Having the beckett's "mettered" with an dwyer unit is fine but saying the beckett's don't work properly without it and it's "absolute best" operating range is at say:44-45scfm, is pointless ! I've run beckett's on certain systems with the valve fully opened to allow for a "mixed" bubble size in the reaction chamber and a high flow rate at the same time.
This was necessary in order to get maximin contact time and believe or not I got amazing results in reducing "suspended" algea from building up into the main tank which was an issue at the time. Bottom line is, experimenting with metering on the beckett injector (or any other design-pinwheel) is very "subjective" in my view and it's the tank inhabitants that make the "final" call when we've reached the "optimal" point of success in caring for them !

[sirreal63]

However the pinwheel skimmers use much "lower" quality pumps and will eventually need either a replacement pinwheel or a new pump altogether...in most cases ,it seems every two years is the general "lifetime" for these lower quality pinwheel pumps.

While I am a fan of a good downdraft or Beckett I have not had that pinwheel issue. On my old G3 it is still running the original Sedra 5000 since about 2005 and the impeller has been replaced once though the original needlewheel is still in use. This skimmer had ozone ran through it since day one. I retired it a few months back to play with a recirclating Vertex IN-180, not because of any failures but because I like to tinker.

The point is not everyone has those issues with a needle/pin wheel. If you did that is ok, but to think that the majority has or will is not very accurate. I have used a multitude of magnetic driven pumps over the years, I have never had a failure from any of them. I have a box full of old pumps, all of which still work fine. Most were replaced in favor of more energy efficient pumps, not from any failure. I also keep my equipment clean which may help longevity but some of my pumps are at least 10 years old. :beer:

[slief]

Disagree with on this one ! If that's true then EVERY cone skimmer needs a dwyer meter as well ! How many people have complained about either overflow issue's or light skimmate coming out of their cone skimmers? The problem with this design is that the manufacture decided to "brag" about how much air they can produce and shove it into a small bodied skimmer with about 5-6 inches of reaction tube and then squeeze the snot of all this air into a funnel hoping for skimmate production to happen ? This was a "short sightedness" on the design from the manufactures part in my humble opinion ! This is why I question the notion that an meter is an absolute must for beckett skimmers to make them operate properly ? I've been using beckett's for over 10 years and never onece used an meter , as long as their is an "air valve" attached ( ALL skimmers should have this) you can literly guage the bubble size as you turn down the valve..I have done this with great success ! Having the beckett's "mettered" with an dwyer unit is fine but saying the beckett's don't work properly without it and it's "absolute best" operating range is at say:44-45scfm, is pointless ! I've run beckett's on certain systems with the valve fully opened to allow for a "mixed" bubble size in the reaction chamber and a high flow rate at the same time.
This was necessary in order to get maximin contact time and believe or not I got amazing results in reducing "suspended" algea from building up into the main tank which was an issue at the time. Bottom line is, experimenting with metering on the beckett injector (or any other design-pinwheel) is very "subjective" in my view and it's the tank inhabitants that make the "final" call when we've reached the "optimal" point of success in caring for them !

While I agree with much of what you said, I feel I need to clarify my comment regarding "must have". I will preface this by saying perhaps it was a reach on my part to say a Dwyer is a "must have" but I feel strongly that a Dwyer meter is an asset in many ways when it comes to a beckett skimmer and is something that most anybody should consider strongly.

A needlewheel skimmer typically has a pump that matches the skimmer. Many needlewheel skimmers allow only adjustment of the water level inside the skimmer. Some like my Alpha have adjustable volutes that allow adjustment of the air to water ratio but that is not the case with most needlewheel skimmers. Some but very few have gate valves to adjust the air intake on the venturi. For the most part a Dwyer would be a waste on most needlewheel skimmers.

Beckett skimmers on the other hand rely heaviliy on the pressure pump but also may have a valve to adjust the airflow going into the skimmer. My experience has been that the dwyer meter allows for easier adjustment of the air intake and also serves as a metering device providing a visual point of reference beyond skimmate output. This serves as a good indicator for when the becketts need to be cleaned. When the air drops off, it's time to clean the becketts and or the air lines.

Another advantage that I feel warrants the dwyer meter is skimmer adjustment. Knowing your optimal airflow for a skimmer makes adjusting it much easier, especially after a thorough cleaning. It also provides a reliable visual point of reference when trying to find the sweet spot. Especially if you take notes. Without the dwyer meter, one would have to adjust a valve blindly which isn't terribly precise to begin with. The Dwyer meter makes that task much more accurate especiialy given the sensitive nature of many of these skimmers. A little to much air or too little can make a big difference in skimmer performance and the Dwyer allows for much more precise adjustments by providing a visual point of reference for air flow. It's not about how much SCH you can draw but more importantly what SCH allows the skimmer to perform optimally.

Now I will note that is not a must have in the litteral sense but it certainly makes the task of adjusting and maintaing optimal air flow on a beckett skimmer much easier and can also be handy on some needlewheel skimmers. Not everybody remembers their optimum bubble size and for those that are new to the hobby as well as those that haven't had much skimmer experience, identifying the ideal bubble size is a science that may not have been learned for some. Not to mention that after a thorough cleaning most skimmers will have some sort of a break in period (usually a couple hours to 24 hours) before they generate optimal sized bubbles.

For me, I could care less about bragging rights when it comes to air draw. I just want to be able to setup, adjust and maintain my skimmer for consistant optimal performance and do so with the least amount of time. The dwyer meter certainly helps with that and provides a great visual point of reference (beyond the bubbles) when it comes to airflow which is a key factor in adjusting and maintaining certain skimmers.

[bernie lyons]

While I am a fan of a good downdraft or Beckett I have not had that pinwheel issue. On my old G3 it is still running the original Sedra 5000 since about 2005 and the impeller has been replaced once though the original needlewheel is still in use. This skimmer had ozone ran through it since day one. I retired it a few months back to play with a recirclating Vertex IN-180, not because of any failures but because I like to tinker.

The point is not everyone has those issues with a needle/pin wheel. If you did that is ok, but to think that the majority has or will is not very accurate. I have used a multitude of magnetic driven pumps over the years, I have never had a failure from any of them. I have a box full of old pumps, all of which still work fine. Most were replaced in favor of more energy efficient pumps, not from any failure. I also keep my equipment clean which may help longevity but some of my pumps are at least 10 years old. :beer:

Well , all I can say is I am reading more and more threads of people having issue's with their pinwheel/pumps in the less expensive skimmers within a two year period. There seems to be a trend of these problems surfacing these days.

[bernie lyons]

Here is my contention with the logic.. A needlewheel skimmer typically has a pump that matches the skimmer. Many needlewheel skimmers allow only adjustment of the water level inside the skimmer. Some like my alpha have adjustbale volutes that allow adjustment of the air to water ratio but that is not the case with most needlewheel skimmers. Some but very few have gate valves to adjust the air intake on the venturi.

Beckett skimmers on the other hand rely heaviliy on the pressure pump but also may have a valve to adjust the airflow going into the skimmer. My experience has been that the dwyer meter allows for easier adjustment of the air intake and also serves as a metering device providing a visual point of reference beyond skimmate output. This serves as a good indicator for when the becketts need to be cleaned. When the air drops off, it's time to clean the becketts and or the air lines.

Another advantage that I feel warrants the dwyer meter is skimmer adjustment. Knowing your optimal airflow for a skimmer makes adjusting it much easier, especially after a thorough cleaning. It also provides a reliable visual point of reference when trying to find the sweet spot. Especially if you take notes. Without the dwyer meter, one would have to adjust a valve blindly which isn't terribly precise to begin with. The Dwyer meter makes that task much more accurate especiialy given the sensitive nature of many of these skimmers. A little to much air or too little can make a big difference in skimmer performance and the Dwyer allows for much more precise adjustments by providing a visual point of reference for air flow. It's not about how much SCH you can draw but more importantly what SCH allows the skimmer to perform optimally.

Now I will note that is not a must have in the litteral sense but it certainly makes the task of adjusting and maintaing optimal air flow on a beckett skimmer much easier and can also be handy on some needlewheel skimmers. For me, I could care less about bragging rights when it comes to air draw. I just want to be able to setup, adjust and maintain my skimmer for consistant optimal performance the dwyer meter certainly helps with that.

Slief, it's nice to see you are looking for the "absolute" in metering/ optimizing you needlewheel skimmer ! However my point is that there seems to be some misinformation going around here that all beckett's design's "must" have an dwyer meter or all "hell breaks loose" , which is certainly NOT the case whatsoever ! Again if it makes for adjusting to get the "absolute" -and I use this term loosely, in "dialing in" what you think is optimal , then great for you. Like I said I find that there is no direct correlation between so-called getting the absolute perfect sch on ANY skimmer vs inhabitants health inside your tank ! I have surpised myself on more occasions than not, about getting skimmers dialed in to what I thought was a perfect set up and later realizing that the inhabitants (corals particularly) were less than satisfied with it. That's why I started to "loosely" set up skimmers to what the corals preferred and simply put the meter away for good !
"If it measure's good but looks bad ,we have to re-think what we are measuring"
If however, "if things look "good" and it measures bad, then we are measure the wrong thing" ! - Bernie Lyons

[slief]

Slief, it's nice to see you are looking for the "absolute" in metering/ optimizing you needlewheel skimmer !

Agree completely. I've never run a Dwyer on a needlewheel skimmer. Just the beckett. Like you, I adjust and clean by what my eyes and skimmer tell me and could have done the same with beckett though I found having them very handy. Hell doesn't break loose without the Dwyer but a bit of hell may be avoided for those with less experience.

That said, a pair of Dwyers on my Alpha 300 could be interesting. :eek1: Between the finite control I have over my sump level, 2 RD pumps, each with adjustable volutes feeding the skimmer and the skimmers adjustable standpipe, there is a silly amount of adjustability.. That adjustability can be a pain at first. Then again, after nearly 3 years or so on this skimmer, I know it inside and out and the meters would ultimately be nothing more than ornaments. Gosh, I almost sound like I'm contradicting myself.

[biecacka]

I am looking for iwaki the one used one I seem is too big, which model number/letters does panworld use for its pressure rated pump. Figure I would look this route before buying a new one.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/null-31.jpg
Here is the skimmer complete with shut off valve in collection cup

Corey

[azjohnny]

I am looking for iwaki the one used one I seem is too big, which model number/letters does panworld use for its pressure rated pump. Figure I would look this route before buying a new one.

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m377/biecacka/null-31.jpg
Here is the skimmer complete with shut off valve in collection cup

Corey

Could you just valve back the "too big" pump?

[McGee10]

Hi All, been following the thread and am trying to understand why dialing the air flow I have mine wide open. Should I be cutting back on the air flow? Does it make the bubbles smaller there for better? Thanks

[bernie lyons]

Hi All, been following the thread and am trying to understand why dialing the air flow I have mine wide open. Should I be cutting back on the air flow? Does it make the bubbles smaller there for better? Thanks

Dialing back the air flow does make the bubbles smaller but on the other hand unless you are not satisfied with the look of the tanks inhabitants, ect . you don't have too cut back the air flow.If your not overflowing into your cup when you "fire up" the skimmer after a cleaning and the skimmate is pretty dark and grundgy than keep everything as it is...no need to adjust anything !
Contrary to popular belief , having the "smallest" micro bubble's doesn't automatically yield to a better living environment for your corals and fish !!!
The ocean produces multiples of "mixed" bubble sizes and it seems to do pretty darn good job of skimming and keeping the all types of life Happy !

[McGee10]

Dialing back the air flow does make the bubbles smaller but on the other hand unless you are not satisfied with the look of the tanks inhabitants, ect . you don't have too cut back the air flow.If your not overflowing into your cup when you "fire up" the skimmer after a cleaning and the skimmate is pretty dark and grundgy than keep everything as it is...no need to adjust anything !
Contrary to popular belief , having the "smallest" micro bubble's doesn't automatically yield to a better living environment for your corals and fish !!!
The ocean produces multiples of "mixed" bubble sizes and it seems to do pretty darn good job of skimming and keeping the all types of life Happy !

Thanks I was starting to think I was not getting the most out of the system even though the skimmer is pulling dark skimmate love this thing!

[bernie lyons]

Thanks I was starting to think I was not getting the most out of the system even though the skimmer is pulling dark skimmate love this thing!

AWESOME...good to hear !

[steve9]

I was shocked at the performance of the TRITON 5
on my short beckett and etss skimmers they just
really drive these skimmers well with low draw.
I have a clear downdraft tube which allows a great
view of bubble dwell time which is at least 3 times
longer will a certain air pull.
Bubble dwell time is the only real advantage a tall
downdraft skimmer has over a needlewheel.
There is a sweet spot which a dWYER is helpful in
getting where you need to.
Done correctly the bubbles will very slowly make there way
down the tube but run the air to high and you get a
very low dwell and turbulence.
Its a little silly to comment on certain pumps unless you
have run them on becketts.......
There may be some others new pumps like the WB that
are worth a try but i have real first hand experience with
the T5 and dc10000 copy and they are great pumps
for small to mid size becketts and some large ones .

[biecacka]

Skimmer is kicking butt. Using an iwaki 55 on it. Took awhile to get it dialed in but it's going solid

Corey