Back in the hobby after being out a decade....need some updates/equipment advice!

[ntrain96]

Hello, thanks for taking the time to read my thread(and hopefully add some good advice/links). Getting back into the hobby after being out of it for 10-15 years. So Im not new to the hobby, but Im sure there have been some improvements, advances since I was last around. Hoping for some advice on where to pick up equipment, livestock,liverock etc......seems like alot of names have come and gone since I was last around.

But anyway, what I plan to do:

A. A "reef" style tank that will probably have its focus around some Percula clowns and a Ritteri anemone. I am going to start gathering equipment slowly now and the goal is to have it up and running by Xmas.

B. Size of the tank: Will be 36"x24"x20" high.....I may go to a 48" long tank instead though.......the tank will be cell cast acrylic. Feel free to recommend any good online builders as I will have some customization done to it to maximize turnover potential and flow.

C. The cabinet and canopy will be built by myself.

D. Will have a full function sump......inside the cabinet will need to house a chiller, external pump(or pumps), a sump w/refugium, protein skimmer(external if I can fit it), calcium reactor(or equivalent), some type of auto top off system/reserve of RODI water, controller, probes, etc etc.

E. Lighting will consist of some type of metal halide system(hopeing to do single bulb)with seperate actinic lighting, and a moonlight of some type(to try and mimic sunrise/sunset, seasonal and moon phases etc).

F. I will have one single 15a 120v outlet available for this setup, so efficiency of the pumps, chiller and lighting are somewhat essential I assume.

G. In addition to sunrise/sunset and moon control, I would also like to have tidal/current control. Back 10-15 years ago this was done with some cheap powerheads, an aquacontroller Pro and some x10 modules........hoping there have been some advances in this area. WOuld like to have maybe a pair of pumps in the sump connected via hard plumbing to main tank to do this function, and hopefully without x10 modules.

H. My budget really isnt an issue, again will be collecting equipment over the spring and summer, and just need to make sure that the right equipment for the job is obtained. A fully automated system with network to my laptop is the goal.

I: Filtration and pump. Previously I emplyed re circulating needlewheel and beckett skimmers by Euroreef, PM etc......I see some new "Cone" skimmers........looks like just a variation on what was available years ago with a tapered riser tube. Regardless I tend to oversize my protein skimmer, since I feed heavy. My bio load will be light and ethical(probably just a pair of clowns, an algae eater(pygmy angel), and a few green chromis.........the coral load will very very light as well, mainly a Ritteri anemone, some snails,crabs, and sand sifters.......thats about it, but I know the Ritteri alone will equate the tank load into the moderate/heavy category. Again since I am limited to a single 15a dedicated outlet and will be using a chiller and some form of MH lighting I know I need to keep things efficient.


My old tanks had equipment from companies such as Euro-reef, Neptunesystems, Dolphin and magdrive pumps,Life Reef,Myreef, hamilton hqi lighting with ballast using 6500k bulbs, Precision marine, Myreef etc(Some of these companies seemed to have gone out of business or renamed themselves)........so looking to keep in line with the same quality.

The system will employ live rock, with dsb, and an in sump refugium. Tank turnover rate I prefer to have in the 20x range or higher. Also, any good place to buy UNCURED(Prefer to cure myself) liverock, live sand? Again places like Jeff's Exotic fish and quite a few others are gone.

Appreciate any and all posts. :)

AT

Love equipment opinions

[Playa-1]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=84&pictureid=41094
To Reef Central

Good luck with the build :)

[sponger0]

Well let me see if I can help any.

First thing I notice is the halides and chiller. You can simplify this and have less heat/electricity concerns with going with LEDs. No bulbs to change, no heat affect on the tank temp and no need for a chiller. I think this would be cheaper than using halides and a chiller.

Now the sunset/sunrise can be programmed with newer led systems to where you can control the output of the lights. And you can also control the tidal affect with some Vortechs and can use Vortechs in junctions with radions to program a full thunderstorm effect. Its pretty awesome.

For skimmers, your cone skimmers tend to work better. Or so Im told or read lol. Reef Octopus SS series in sump skimmers are high performers. There are also other...I just like Reef Octos

Oh and also if your not going to have a heavily stocked SPS tank, I dont see the need for the money for a calcium reactor. Thats just my opinion. You could save some money on some things to put into some more higher end equipment.

[antbreon]

i have been going through the same things the last 6 months..did it really hard set the last one up 10 years ago and had other focuses..it just sat there and did its thing...the frag thing is awesome you can have a beautiful tank with beer money and patience..

[ntrain96]

Well let me see if I can help any.

First thing I notice is the halides and chiller. You can simplify this and have less heat/electricity concerns with going with LEDs. No bulbs to change, no heat affect on the tank temp and no need for a chiller. I think this would be cheaper than using halides and a chiller.

Now the sunset/sunrise can be programmed with newer led systems to where you can control the output of the lights. And you can also control the tidal affect with some Vortechs and can use Vortechs in junctions with radions to program a full thunderstorm effect. Its pretty awesome.

For skimmers, your cone skimmers tend to work better. Or so Im told or read lol. Reef Octopus SS series in sump skimmers are high performers. There are also other...I just like Reef Octos

Oh and also if your not going to have a heavily stocked SPS tank, I dont see the need for the money for a calcium reactor. Thats just my opinion. You could save some money on some things to put into some more higher end equipment.LEDs? Can LED's output the same PAR as halides? Links to some quality LED systems?

As for the chiller, even if I do bypass Halide setup, I would still run a chiller. One of the most important aspects of reef systems thats often overlooked is temp swings. Even temps swings of a few degrees in an hours time I find can be highly detrimental. I will use a chiller/heater combo regardless of lighting, especially with an acrylic tank which tends to insulate and hold in heat.

As for LED's this is intriguing for me, the question though is that you lose your point source light? Would kind of like to keep that. My old system consisted of 4 28 watt actinic bulbs and a single halide bulb. It allowed me to simulate a sunrise/sunset effect and also vary the intensity(the halide would randomly shut on and off to simulate overcast days and clouds) I would like to be able to have this ability again. Again though, links to LEDs......maybe tech papers on spectrum ability etc too would be great. :)

Also, my DSB used to be the main source of keeping nitrates low. Are there any improvements in tech on reducing or keeping nitrate levels at 0? RItteri anemone's are extremely sensitive to nitrate levels, more so than typical corals.

Calcium reactor will still be kept, probably do a tiny one, but the benefits to adding some trace elements beyond calcium is one reason why I want one.

Also, Id love a link on VOrtechs and radions? I was con sidering running a couple of small Magdrive pumps in the sump and hard plumb them into the trapezoidal overflow on the back of the tank through hard plumbing and a controller. THe less clutter in the tank itself the better, but again Id love links on these items. :)

Also, do any of these new "cone" protein skimmers(which I see are basically modified needlewheel skimmers?)allow for ozone attachment?

thanks for the replies!

[sponger0]

LEDs? Can LED's output the same PAR as halides? Links to some quality LED systems?

As for the chiller, even if I do bypass Halide setup, I would still run a chiller. One of the most important aspects of reef systems thats often overlooked is temp swings. Even temps swings of a few degrees in an hours time I find can be highly detrimental. I will use a chiller/heater combo regardless of lighting, especially with an acrylic tank which tends to insulate and hold in heat.

As for LED's this is intriguing for me, the question though is that you lose your point source light? Would kind of like to keep that. My old system consisted of 4 28 watt actinic bulbs and a single halide bulb. It allowed me to simulate a sunrise/sunset effect and also vary the intensity(the halide would randomly shut on and off to simulate overcast days and clouds) I would like to be able to have this ability again. Again though, links to LEDs......maybe tech papers on spectrum ability etc too would be great. :)

Also, my DSB used to be the main source of keeping nitrates low. Are there any improvements in tech on reducing or keeping nitrate levels at 0? RItteri anemone's are extremely sensitive to nitrate levels, more so than typical corals.

Calcium reactor will still be kept, probably do a tiny one, but the benefits to adding some trace elements beyond calcium is one reason why I want one.

Also, Id love a link on VOrtechs and radions? I was con sidering running a couple of small Magdrive pumps in the sump and hard plumb them into the trapezoidal overflow on the back of the tank through hard plumbing and a controller. THe less clutter in the tank itself the better, but again Id love links on these items. :)

Also, do any of these new "cone" protein skimmers(which I see are basically modified needlewheel skimmers?)allow for ozone attachment?

thanks for the replies!

Well as far as the chiller and calcium reactor was just offering my thoughts to save you money for corals or fish lol. I think you would have a better effect on controller temp with an aquacontroller as it can shut of your heaters if the tank starts to over heat.

Dimmable LEDs would allow you to still simulate sunrise and sunset. The blues and white on some LEDs are on different circuits so that shouldnt be a problem. Also LEDs produce a very nice shimmer to them.

Thats the best I can comment on your concerns I beleive

[ntrain96]

Well as far as the chiller and calcium reactor was just offering my thoughts to save you money for corals or fish lol. I think you would have a better effect on controller temp with an aquacontroller as it can shut of your heaters if the tank starts to over heat.

Dimmable LEDs would allow you to still simulate sunrise and sunset. The blues and white on some LEDs are on different circuits so that shouldnt be a problem. Also LEDs produce a very nice shimmer to them.

Thats the best I can comment on your concerns I beleiveNo I apprecaite the thoughts on money saving, but budget is not the issue here. Again, I consider a chiller an essential component to any reef style tank. Its just as important as the lighting, water flow and heater element. If your tank has temp swings of more than +/- 1 degree(2 degrees total)in a 24 hour period, then IMO its an essential and needed component.

Ive started looking into the LED lighting.......not sure if I would want it as my main light, but as a complimentary sunrise/sunset/cloud cover and dimmable moonlight lighting array to an HQI MH bulb, I probably will do so. I like the idea of having multiple blue and white led cluster lighting spread out on both sides of the main MH bulb. My question is how is the light spread? Can it be diffused? Or? Plus I think the LED lights will be great for the refugium and mangrove bed Ill have inside the cabinet in the main sump area.

[sponger0]

I think before you decideon lighting to start checking out some LED threads on here. LEDs have a large spread area they can cover and you can incresse or decrease the intensity as long as they are dimmable so that is one feature to make sure they have.

[NMC]

You know more about this than me, just wanted to say, I have LED's. They do dawn/dusk/daylight/moonlight, use much less electricity, and don't heat up the tank. You did mention just having the one outlet and chillers, if you feel you need one, are big power eaters. With the LED's your chiller wouldn't be called into service as often, if at all. More available power for the rest of your equipment. My tank maintains a steady temp even with the "daylights" on for 10 hours. This is my first tank so I've no experience with the halides, but I did read up on the chillers thinking I may need one. So far it's not looking like I will. My electrical system has some limitations as well.

I've been looking at gazillions of tanks lately. People seem to be able to grow any kind of coral they want with the LED's and don't seem limited at all. There's lots of lighting geeks on here so I'm sure you'll get tons of links and suggestions. Best of luck and I hope you don't mind this noob putting in 2 cents.

[Chuck H.]

Plus 3 on LED's! I just set up my Radion (by Ecotech Marine) Friday, haven't got my livestock under it yet (check out my build thread at http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134459
if interested), but I'm very impressed with this fixture. I think a temp controller for your heater(s) and maybe a fan on the sump or DT will easily keep your temp in check without the need for a chiller. And, since a budget isn't a concern for you, a quality LED system is going to cost you as much as, if not more, than MH. Good luck.

[Danny_B]

As far as LEDs go, we are surpassing par levels of halides with the use optics at less than half the wattage. Rapidled.com is a great simple DIY. Thats where i bought my leds and drivers, etc. I mention this because you are building a stand, building an led setup is very fun, rewarding and not to mention conducive to customization. If not, radions are great.

[smsreefer]

Welcome back ntrain96.
Jeff's Exotic was bought out by Dr Fosters and Smith sometime way back.
You must remember the old Phillips TL-03 Actinics too. lol

Sanjay Joshi is still around and has a great article on LED's in the Sept/Oct 2011 issue of Coral Magazine. It is available on-line after an easy search.

I'm going to DIY an LED system for one of my frag tanks but for now, I still use Radiums and Iwasaki 6500k. :)

As far as a chiller, I have never had to use one. My temps have never swayed more than 2 deg. even on Canopies w/halides.
I have had to put a fan on sumps at times for evaporative cooling .
( Top off water everyday anyway,what's a little more and it's all but free. No amps. lol)

Anyway, Welcome back !

[ntrain96]

Welcome back ntrain96.
Jeff's Exotic was bought out by Dr Fosters and Smith sometime way back.
You must remember the old Phillips TL-03 Actinics too. lol

Sanjay Joshi is still around and has a great article on LED's in the Sept/Oct 2011 issue of Coral Magazine. It is available on-line after an easy search.

I'm going to DIY an LED system for one of my frag tanks but for now, I still use Radiums and Iwasaki 6500k. :)

As far as a chiller, I have never had to use one. My temps have never swayed more than 2 deg. even on Canopies w/halides.
I have had to put a fan on sumps at times for evaporative cooling .
( Top off water everyday anyway,what's a little more and it's all but free. No amps. lol)

Anyway, Welcome back !Link to the LED article? Thanks!

One thing I liked about a single halide light on a small reef tank, is the pointsource that mimics the sun and the waters natural "shimmering" effect. Can this be had with LED's?

[WillM]

I think this is the article smsreefer is referring to:

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/coral-interview-dr-sanjay-joshi

[smsreefer]

Here is the article I was referring to.
Yes,you also get the bonus of a nice shimmer too.

http://coralmagazine.coverleaf.com/coral/20110910#pg43