Is this Cryptocaryon (marine ich)?

[adikira]

I believe it is but I had started multi tank trasnfer method of treatment and would have expected it to fall off as it completes the cycle but I don't see that.

Your input is appreciated.

[tkeracer619]

Its not ich.

[adikira]

thanks, do you know what it is and how I get rid of it? I had 3 fish that died recently but they didn't show these spots though.

[adikira]

I had also tried a 3 minute fresh water bath and then a few days later a 5 minute one, again it didn't seem to make too much of a difference (either no difference or small difference).

My understanding is that FW baths are more useful against marine velvet and not as much as against marine ich since marine ich gets deeper into the skin. however these spots seem pretty external to me.

[foxrazr]

Looks like ich to me. Post that picture in the disease forum just to make sure. If its ich try treating it with cupramine. I actually killed a nice yellow tang doing a fresh water dip. Will never do that again. The trick with cupramine is that it has to be at a certain level for two weeks. Only problem is that most of the time people put it in a hospital tank that doesn't have a bio filter going. You end up doing water changes and screws the cupramine levels up.
What I do is get my hospital tank going with new artificial seawater with a salinity of 1.025 Sg (Salinity equal to my display tank) with a regular hang on back filter no carbon. Go to my nearest LFS and buy a big bottle of Instant Ocean Bio Spira and pour some into the tank. To take care of the bio filter. Place affected fish into hospital tank following proper acclimation procedures. Dose cupramine as per instructions. Test cupramine levels with salifert copper test. Test ammonia with seachem test. For some reason other ammonia test give false positives when using cupramine. Hope that helps.

[reefsafe]

ich is more tightly on the body of the fish...this looks like you could pick off each white spot. My vote is not ich.

[adikira]

Looks like ich to me. Post that picture in the disease forum just to make sure. If its ich try treating it with cupramine. I actually killed a nice yellow tang doing a fresh water dip. Will never do that again. The trick with cupramine is that it has to be at a certain level for two weeks. Only problem is that most of the time people put it in a hospital tank that doesn't have a bio filter going. You end up doing water changes and screws the cupramine levels up.
What I do is get my hospital tank going with new artificial seawater with a salinity of 1.025 Sg (Salinity equal to my display tank) with a regular hang on back filter no carbon. Go to my nearest LFS and buy a big bottle of Instant Ocean Bio Spira and pour some into the tank. To take care of the bio filter. Place affected fish into hospital tank following proper acclimation procedures. Dose cupramine as per instructions. Test cupramine levels with salifert copper test. Test ammonia with seachem test. For some reason other ammonia test give false positives when using cupramine. Hope that helps.

Thanks, I followed your advice and I posted this in the disease forum (I didn't find that when I posted this) and added another picture.

I did get copper but then I decided not to use it. My understanding is that if one fish has ich any fish may have it and all should be treated. My QT is only 20 gal. while my DT is 187 so I was concerned about fish getting enough oxygen and overall I found it a hassle, algae started to grow in my DT, my wife didn't like that so I decided I'll try to treat in the DT so I put the fish back in the DT. Since I would like to have corals I can't treat copper in DT. But thanks for the info on the copper treatment.

[adikira]

ich is more tightly on the body of the fish...this looks like you could pick off each white spot. My vote is not ich.

Thanks. Do you have any idea what it might be and how to treat it?

[Radicaljbr]

Looks like the ich I had and I got rid of it by putting garlic juice in the tank. You can buy it at your LFS. Read the directions on how much to put in. From what I remember, you have to keep doing the drops for about two weeks even after you stop seeing the ich. Worked like a charm for me.

[adikira]

Thanks for anyone's suggestion and advice. Unfortunately, the disease, whatever it is no longer poses a problem to my powder brown... it died when I tried a dip. I used paraguard. the instructions on the bottle said 1 hour and can be longer if it doesn't show sings of distress. as I didn't see such signs I kept the tang in there for 3-4 hours and I doubled the dose but it was still fine. Then I decided to do a Kent Rx dip. I just poured in the same water the quantity for my volume of water and kept the tang for 15 minutes (the instructions say 15 minutes or less). At some point it laid on its side. I thought that is normal for dips (since that's not an issue for FW dips) but at the end of the 15 minutes, while breathing it showed very low reactions when I caught it with my hand. It was still breathing when I transferred it to my sump but found it dead in the same place the next day...:(. My guess is that it died from Kent's Rx.

[f3honda4me]

Garlic doesn't get rid of ich.

[Radicaljbr]

garlic doesn't get rid of ich.

garlic does get rid of ich!!!! Do some research!!!!!

[Amdeus]

garlic does get rid of ich!!!! Do some research!!!!!

Explain how please. Or point to a direction maybe to read this?

[rl225]

garlic does get rid of ich!!!! Do some research!!!!!

I'm going to have to do some research too. Isn't garlic reef safe at certain doses? A reef safe ich cure? Hmm.

[Radicaljbr]

Explain how please. Or point to a direction maybe to read this?

How would I know how it works? I am not a chemist. There were several discussions on here some years ago about the use of Garlic extract in ridding fish of ich. I have used this method several times and it has worked every time.

Try google for searching ich and garlic. You will find several articles on the use.

I do not have the time nor the desire to look support on this finding, but from what I remember, you have to put so many drops in the tank (according to your tank size) everyday. And you do this for exactly two weeks regardless if the ich seems to have disappeared or not.

Again, I heard about it on RC and it worked like a charm for me on several occasions.

I too thought it sounded very cooky, but what can I tell you. IT WORKED!!

:)

[Radicaljbr]

I'm going to have to do some research too. Isn't garlic reef safe at certain doses? A reef safe ich cure? Hmm.

Yes, it is reef safe (not sure at what amount per gallon). KENT offers it in a small bottle and I bought mine at Marine Depot online. It is actually sold as an eating aid to help fish eat.

[Amdeus]

How would I know how it works? I am not a chemist. There were several discussions on here some years ago about the use of Garlic extract in ridding fish of ich. I have used this method several times and it has worked every time.

Try google for searching ich and garlic. You will find several articles on the use.

I do not have the time nor the desire to look support on this finding, but from what I remember, you have to put so many drops in the tank (according to your tank size) everyday. And you do this for exactly two weeks regardless if the ich seems to have disappeared or not.

Again, I heard about it on RC and it worked like a charm for me on several occasions.

I too thought it sounded very cooky, but what can I tell you. IT WORKED!!

:)

So you got ick serval times? Fom adding stuff or because it showed back up on its own?

[snorvich]

garlic does get rid of ich!!!! Do some research!!!!!

Sorry. Garlic has no effect on ich. I have done the research as well as helped treat many, many tanks.

[crobattt]

yeah garlic just gives the fish more appetite really. no effect on the ick itself.

[Radicaljbr]

LOL....you people crack me up! Don't use it then! I am just saying it worked on the few times I brought a new fish in and it had it. Also I just googled it and several people have had success using it as well. Last time I used it was about 5 years ago and I have not had ich since.

If you have not used it then stop knocking it and maybe try it out. Or keeping killing your fish using dips and copper and other harmful tank "cures".

Just saying

[f3honda4me]

LOL....you people crack me up! Don't use it then! I am just saying it worked on the few times I brought a new fish in and it had it. Also I just googled it and several people have had success using it as well. Last time I used it was about 5 years ago and I have not had ich since.

If you have not used it then stop knocking it and maybe try it out. Or keeping killing your fish using dips and copper and other harmful tank "cures".

Just saying

The reason we're correcting you is because we don't want others who might not know any better follow incorrect advice. :)

I just googled for "elvis alive" and found thousands of entries with "proof" that elvis was alive and well. Does that mean it's true cuz google search said so? ;)

[taylor t]

I have used garlic in the past. IMO, garlic will not help that tang. Garlic can help with a few spots with the right environment, but won't ever get rid of ich. Research to understand. It is incredibly infested, and needs medication, and that may not be enough to save it, with how bad it is. You could try garlic, but time is ticking, and if I was to bet, I would place my wager on death over garlic healing that fish. Not sure why so much time passed before treating, to get to this stage.

[snorvich]

I just googled for "elvis alive" and found thousands of entries with "proof" that elvis was alive and well. Does that mean it's true cuz google search said so? ;)

Elvis is not alive??? :lol2:

[Amdeus]

I have used garlic in the past. IMO, garlic will not help that tang. Garlic can help with a few spots with the right environment, but won't ever get rid of ich. Research to understand. It is incredibly infested, and needs medication, and that may not be enough to save it, with how bad it is. You could try garlic, but time is ticking, and if I was to bet, I would place my wager on death over garlic healing that fish. Not sure why so much time passed before treating, to get to this stage.

It already croaked

[adikira]

Thanks everyone for your response. Yes, the fish died, apparently from a Kent Rx dip.

I'm now to the hobby with almost no experience but my research on garlic seems to indicate that garlic may indirectly help with Ich by boosting the immune system so that the fish can fight themselves better against ich. In some situations that may be enough to tilt the balance towards the fish so that the fish win the fight with the parasites. I imagine that's why it worked for Radicaljbr. My tang was beyond the point of being able to be helped by just a boost of the immune system though. If garlic does boost the immune system and thus fish have better chances to self-fight against ich then it is conceivable that in some situations, the limiting the disease may bring it to a point where the life cycle is broken. I can understand how in many other situations garlic would only subdue the disease at best, keeping it in-check and the outbreak could come back when triggered by either new fish introduced, harassment, water parameter fluctuations, weakening of the immune system.

Again, I have no experience but that's what I figured from my research. I still don't understand the relation between boosting of the immune system and controlling of the disease - how one translates to the other in practical terms (for example, does a fish with a better immune system has a better mucus coating to shield off ich or does it just help the fish to better withstand and not succomb to the disease or what? - I haven't found details on this though).

[BossHoggin]

Garlic stimulates appetite. You soak the food in it. I've never heard of dosing it?? A fat fish in excellent water will rarely die of ich IME. It is not a cure.

[geaux xman]

It doesnt look like your typical ich, but since its on a powder brown tang, I would assume it is. I work in a lab and do some work in the bacti dept. Bacteria similarly to parasites comes in in all different shapes and sizes. So it could easily be some strain of ich that we dont commonly see.

Any case, whatever it is, the best treatment would've been 4 weeks of cupramine IMO.


Not sure what else you have in your tank, but I wouldn't add anything for a little while. Wait and see how the remaining fish turns out.

Sorry for the loss.

[adikira]

Garlic stimulates appetite. You soak the food in it. I've never heard of dosing it?? A fat fish in excellent water will rarely die of ich IME. It is not a cure.

I got Kent's Garlic Extreme. Under directions/instruction for use it lists both soaking food into it and dosing it (I believe its 1 drop per 10 gal.). They list dosing when fish are not eating well or you see external parasites. I also have a reefer friend with some more experience that I have that mentioned dosing as a possibility besides adding it to food.

[adikira]

It doesnt look like your typical ich, but since its on a powder brown tang, I would assume it is. I work in a lab and do some work in the bacti dept. Bacteria similarly to parasites comes in in all different shapes and sizes. So it could easily be some strain of ich that we dont commonly see.

Any case, whatever it is, the best treatment would've been 4 weeks of cupramine IMO.


Not sure what else you have in your tank, but I wouldn't add anything for a little while. Wait and see how the remaining fish turns out.

Sorry for the loss.

I added to more pictures. I don't have much experience but in the last stage didn't seem to look like what I would have expected ich to look like. I saw strings hanging off. I didn't see any other fish having that though but I saw something like regular ich and something completely different (but I couldn't get a good picture though).

I eventually decided to treat in my DT with hyposalinity (because in DT and want to ad corals at some point I decided against copper). I though this would be a great time to add more fish though. If I add them to the sump initially they will go through the hyposalinity treatment so I make sure I don't introduce diseases with them.