New To Hobby. Getting Dif info from Dif LFS. HELP!!!

[norcal_tomtom70]

Hey All. First here is what I have...

~120 Gallon TRUVU Acrylic Tank W/ Built in Center Overflow. Custom Stand/ Canopy.

~20 Gallon Glass Sump, Overflow coming into Filter Sock, CoraLife 125 Protein Skimmer, Sponge filter, BIO Media filter pads against walls, Rio 2100 Return Pump. Misc. broken up pieces of tukani live rock, and some plants in the main sump area, with a 18" Light above the sump.

~100 pounds of live sand
~Around 75 pounds of Live Rock, Tukani, Fiji Premium.

~Lighting:

6: 48" HO T-5 lights, W/ Ice-Cap 660 Ballast, 4 Acnitic, 2 white. AquaWorld Quad fans.

~Dual Jebo 350 Watt Heaters.
~Dual Hydor Water Movers


~Invertabrates:

~20 Mexican Turbo Snails
~20 Nerite Snails
~20 Nassarius Snails
~20 blue legged hermit crabs

~Corals/ Anemones (so far):

~5 pieces of rock with Waving hand anemonies, a medium long green tentacle anemone, Toadstool Leather Coral, And few other ones I dont know the name of, they were givin to me..

Fish:

~8 Small Indo Pacific Green Chromis
~Pair of Mis-Bar Percula Clowns
~Pair of Pink Skunk Clowns
~Pair of Firefish Gobies
~3 Yellow Tail Damselfish
~1 Starry Blenny
~1 CopperBand Butterflyfish
~1 Banded Coral Shrimp
~1 unknown, we think some sort of wrasse

This is a newly established aquarium, tank itself been running for about 6 weeks, 4 weeks with live rock, 3 weeks with green chromis, 2 weeks with chromies, misbars, 1 week with firefish, blennys, skunks, damsels, Banded shrimp, and a few days with the copperband.

The skunks, blenny, unknown wrasse, was all givin to me from a friend, (who owns a LFS), and the rest from another LFS.

OK, now down to the HELP I need... I was told from my friend (LFS), that I CANNOT add less than very hardy fish, because my tank WILL have multiple spikes, etc. That I had to wait, for a minimum 6 months, before I put any other fish that are less hardy. Then the other LFS store told me, as long as all my perimeters are good, and stable, and haven't changes in a matter of a few weeks, that I should be good having less hardy fish, ( so saying that, I bought 2 firefish, and a coral banded shrimp). I brought them home, drip acclimated them, and have been in my tank, eating, nice, and healthy, and my shrimp even molted already. I told my friend (LFS) what I bought, he got really mad at me, and said I shouldn't have bought those fish/ shrimp cause there not hardy at all, They will die soon. I'm just so confused right now. Can anybody help me..

PS, my perimeters are as fallows, as of this morning:

Temp: 76.1
PH: 8.1
Nitrates: 0.3
Nitrites: 0 (undetectable)
Ammonia: 0.5
Salinity: 34 (1.025)

Im not planning on doing a FULL reef tank, just a few soft corals here and there, a few anemones, flower pots, etc.

Another PS: Everything I bought for this tank, tank, sump, skimmer, sand, everything I bought was previously used, and was up, and running when I bought the stuff.

Thank you for any help... TOM

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=185894&stc=1&d=1334635955

[HaKs310]

[welcome]

So this was an established aquarium before you bought it 6 weeks ago?

[Sk8r]

So far so good---We have some written materials as stickies up at the top of this forum. Just start wading through them. They're the best middle-of-the-road advice on making your chemistry work and keeping your tank healthy that we can come up with, especially geared to beginners and new tanks.

Welcome in!

[bud217]

I would slow down. IMO. copperbands are known to be difficult. anemones should be in an established tank with little to no water parameter fluctuation. Just take it slown and get a good handle on everything and how it works. You dont want to spend a lot on livestock and have it die. The ocean wasn't filled in a day. I would listen to your friend, he is obviously not trying to make a sale like the other LFS is. The length of time doesnt necessarily relate to the difficulty of the fish being able to be kept, but relates to your experience. Some things do require established tanks to thrive in though. Good luck with you tank!

[troyman]

you have a amonia reading your tank is not fully cycled yet

[sponger0]

you have a amonia reading your tank is not fully cycled yet

+1. You need to figure out why you are getting an ammonia reading.

You do have 18 fish in the tank. Im not sure if thats contributing to that.

[bdr]

i would have thought your friend already had the tank overloaded for being so new... i wouldnt be surprised if half of his stuff die as well. he is right you will see alot of spikes and swings in the water chemistry. id say keep up with lots of big water changes.

[Guttungen]

I might be a bit hash, but in my mind, if I read you correctly, that you had water for 6 weeks, LS for four weeks and fish the next week? I'll then say you only cycled you tank 1 week b4 putting in your chromis. The cycle starts when you put in LS. In my opinion you would wait atleast 4 weeks after LS and till you have no nitrite or ammonia readings b4 introduce the first fish. Then let your tank time to cope with the new bioload. Then adding fish slowly as your tank need to keep up with the increasing bioload. I think your friend should know and not donate you those fish in a so fresh tank. Did I read 18 fish in week 4 after LS? I would in this situation either ask your friend to look after some of your fish, or stay on top of waterchanges and maybe dose bacteria like BioDigest or ZeoBak. It's not the end of the world but pay attention to your tank, do waterchanges and try to take it at bit slower. I wish you the very best of luck.

[Ron Reefman]

Tom,
You have a friend who is a LFS and yet you are asking some other LFS questions and getting livestock? Well, you have come to the right place. You'll get a lot of conflicting info here. But you take it all in, consider how long some have been in the hobby (or how they just started 3 months ago and are 'experts' now) and decide for yourself.

As for your current situation. It's kind of a hard call if what you did was move a tank that was running. The move will mix things up and release some ammonia and nitrates, but it should cycle pretty quickly if the sand and LR are in good shape. Some of the things you have in your tank are at risk, like the anemone and the copper banded butterfly (unless it's already eatting frozen food). You also have 2 pair of clowns and that can be pretty risky in a 120g tank as well (the females may start to fight and then you'll need to pull one pair out). Your livestock may all live and the clowns may get along, but all in all, what you have could go to either extreme, everything lives or too many things die. Most likely you will end up somewhere in the middle. But what you have done is pretty risky and I certainly wouldn't have let you do what you did if I was your friend... no wonder he was mad at you.

At this point your tank is pretty well stocked, 20 fish in a mature 120g tank is about the limit. Most of your fish are smallish, and if your filter system is kept clean and your skimmer works good, you may be OK. If you fall down on cleaning the filters, or they aren't effective, or if your skimmer isn't effective, you may have more troubles. Keep a close eye on ammonia and nitrates and be prepared to do water changes when nitrates get high... and they will.

Good luck.

[snorvich]

Hey All. First here is what I have...

~120 Gallon TRUVU Acrylic Tank W/ Built in Center Overflow. Custom Stand/ Canopy.





Fish:

~8 Small Indo Pacific Green Chromis
~Pair of Mis-Bar Percula Clowns
~Pair of Pink Skunk Clowns two pairs of clowns will not work; only one pair will survive
~Pair of Firefish Gobies If they are not a M+F pair, they may not coexist long term
~3 Yellow Tail Damselfish
~1 Starry Blenny
~1 CopperBand Butterflyfish a delicate fish that requires a bit of expertise
~1 Banded Coral Shrimp can take fish
~1 unknown, we think some sort of wrasse

This is a newly established aquarium, tank itself been running for about 6 weeks, 4 weeks with live rock, 3 weeks with green chromis, 2 weeks with chromies, misbars, 1 week with firefish, blennys, skunks, damsels, Banded shrimp, and a few days with the copperband.

As others have said, slow down. Nothing good happens quickly in this hobby


Temp: 76.1
PH: 8.1
Nitrates: 0.3
Nitrites: 0 (undetectable)
Ammonia: 0.5 tank is not fully cycled
Salinity: 34 (1.025)

Im not planning on doing a FULL reef tank, just a few soft corals here and there, a few anemones, flower pots, etc.

Another PS: Everything I bought for this tank, tank, sump, skimmer, sand, everything I bought was previously used, and was up, and running when I bought the stuff.

Thank you for any help... TOM

[Donkeykong]

It has already been said but SLOW DOWN!!!! You have more fish in there then I would have advise at the 6 month mark let alone the 6 week. It is not the end of the world, hopefully. But the best advise I can give is hard and fast stop of adding anything new. You are showing ammonia which could be two things, your tank is not fully cycled and you and your fish are still in for a very bumpy ride or your tank had cycled but from the huge influx of fish it is having a hard time keeping up and that is why you are reading ammonia. Either way it will be wise to keep a very close eye on your levels, keep a good 20 gallons of new saltwater ready to do a water change in case you see a large spike of ammonia or nitrites. Do your best to feeding sparingly to help avoid over loading your system. Now to the actual fish you have, I have 2 concerns. First, two pairs of clown fish in one tank has been done but more time than not it ends with a gang fight and one pair if not both being damaged to the point of death, I would strongly suggest you pick the pair you like most and try and get the other pair out. You may not see any fighting now or even in the next couple of months, but as both pair start to mature they will most likely eventually see each other as a threat. Second the Copperband, one of my favorite fish. These guys have a reputation of being hard to keep for the simple fact that they come in to fish store not use to eating prepared food and since they are also slower eaters it is hard to train them to eat enough frozen food before all your other fish devour what was just feed. That being said if your copperband is already eating prepared food then awesome, if not and or he is just a shy eater and isnt getting much food at each feeding you might be in for a hard time with him. Keep a close eye on him and make sure he isnt getting skinnier. I hope you are not discouraged by all this lecturing you are getting from everybody, we have all been there. New to the hobby and anxious to have a full tank right now. But like has been said nothing good happens in this hobby fast. Please ready all the stickies and search through the forums, the more information you have the better you will understand what is going on inside your tank.

[MaxxedMan]

Im not planning on doing a FULL reef tank, just a few soft corals here and there, a few anemones, flower pots, etc.


Flower pots are goniopora coral. One of the most difficult corals in the hobby. If you can keep them alive, you might as well do a full reef.

Give your tank 60 days (the fish are suffering in their own urine since bacteria can't keep up) to stabilize. It's cruel to do otherwise.

[Reeferz412]

You may want to raise your temp to 78... just sayin.

[norcal_tomtom70]

To HaKs310, yes, this was an established aquarium when I bought it. Not everything came from the same aquarium, BUT everything I did get, was from An already established aquarium.

[norcal_tomtom70]

OK, its awesome in a 12 hour period hearing all these comment. Thanks to everyone... I am taking everything into consideration. All my Water is RO water from my friends LFS, I get it free, so why not? lol. As far as water changes, so far, I have been doing at least a 15% water change every 2 weeks. As far as the clowns go, I knew they wouldn't get along, I bought the mis bars, and skunks were given to me, I don't like the skunks, so, I'm going to be trading in the skunks, the copperband, and the wrasse. Like I said, Most of the stuff was just given to me, especially alot of the live rock. Everything was from an established aquarium. The firefish were sold to me as a "mating pare" I think thats what they told me anyways. The only reason I go to "another" LFS, is because my friends LFS in very new, and doesn't have anything yet. But an 120 gallon starfire tank in his LFS, that's actually been only running for about 2 months also. We both the tanks at the same time. Everything in his was brand new, were as mine was already established. going to raise my temp a few degrees, (thank you), OHH, I forgot to add I been adding Pridibio BIO Digest to the tank as well, and also some RedSea ABC+ as well. .To help everything out. Thanks for all the quick replies. Also, going to be getting rid of most of the Chromis, only going to keep a pair. Thanks all. Any more help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks..

[HaKs310]

If you got the LR from established tanks than I will go out and say that most of it was cured. You will still see a mini cycle from transporting and the die off that incurred. Same thing with the LS, the moving would have kicked up detritus and other gunk. I personally would have just gone with new sand, which is something you might want to slowly do.

As everyone has suggested, take it slow! Take all the fish you don't want and get some store credit from them. The chromis won't do good in a pair of two so I would just take them all back. I like my temperature in the 81F range but 79-81F works. Let the tank sit for a couple of months while you read and research. I would slowly quit dosing the Pridibio and just let the tank stable itself out. The RedSea supplements, unless you are testing for them I would also quit adding them. You don't have much as corals anyway so weekly water changes should take care of that.

Can you post a couple pics of your sump just to see what exactly you are working with.

[norcal_tomtom70]

Hey, thanks for the input. Slowly uping my temp to around 80. I think, Im taking everyones suggestions into one. Going to take out the chromis, wrasse, copperband, skunks. And I might even take the misbars out. I originally just wanted a pair of Occelaris clowns, and he got me the misbars, so, I didnt even really want them anyways. So, I might do that..Thanks again, here is a pic of my sump. It was taken about a week ago.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=6118&pictureid=42043

[Reeferz412]

Does the skimmate always come out of the top from your skimmer?

[norcal_tomtom70]

No, I took that about 2 hours after doing a water change. Of course, the only time I take a picture of the sump, the skimmate came out the top, lol. but, that was the only time it every came out the top....

[norcal_tomtom70]

Off related question... .How do you put a picture, or Avatar under your name?? THX.

[HaKs310]

For the sump, just make you clean out that sponge regularly and I would take out the BIO media also.

Avatar:
Go to "My RC"
Left hand side under "Settings & Options"
"Edit Avatar"

[norcal_tomtom70]

OK, thanks.. I clean out the sump/ sponge once a week, that's my Friday thing. LOL. And ill take the BIO Media, thanks.

[norcal_tomtom70]

Another Question About the fish. Im taking out the skunk clowns for sure. But, I really like the Misbars, only cause there different, and unique, and pretty expensive, lol, but I was wandering, since I had a long/ big tank, If I could put a pair of Occellaris clowns, in my tank. With my Misbar, the misbars are really small right now, about an inch big..

[Tmoriarty]

Another Question About the fish. Im taking out the skunk clowns for sure. But, I really like the Misbars, only cause there different, and unique, and pretty expensive, lol, but I was wandering, since I had a long/ big tank, If I could put a pair of Occellaris clowns, in my tank. With my Misbar, the misbars are really small right now, about an inch big..

As snorvich already posted above, no.

Two clown pairs will not co-exist in a tank long term, they may be ok while juvies but will eventually fight in almost every scenario.

If you had a 12 foot long tank, then perhaps the rule can be bent, but you're tank is not long enough to keep them from fighting.

You said everything you got was from an established tank? Are you talking about equipment or the LR/LS? If the LR/LS was from an estabalished tank, how long had it been in that tank?

I wish you luck in your reefkeeping, but by all means feel free to take advice of the people posting here.

[norcal_tomtom70]

Thanks... YES Everything was from an established aquarium, The tank/ LS, itself was from a place in the bay area that went out of business. And My friend (LFS), bought his whole store from him, and this tank was one of them, and it was running until the day we bought everything from him, and the tank set for about 2 weeks not running, but still had water over the LS. It had been running for about 4 years the guy said. The Sump/ skimmer, was givin to me from a friend, who had it running in a 75 gallon bowfront reef tank, but he switched to a canister filter for his reef tank. So, his stuff was running for about a year before I picked it up. And all the Live rock was bought from my friend (LFS), and was pre cured in his shark tank at work. If that helps out... And thanks for info on the clowns...

[norcal_tomtom70]

And just to let everyone know. I got me a new saltwater API master test kit, tested everything. And it was slightly off compared to the "dip" tests. I have. So, looking like:

Temp: 80.0
PH: 8.1
Nitrates: 0.3
Nitrites: 0.0 (Undetectable)
Ammonia 0.0 (Undetectable)
Salinity: 34 (1.024)

[sponger0]

ok good. So we have some real numbers.

How are you testing your salinity?

[norcal_tomtom70]

I wish, I could say I am using a refractometer, but I cant afford one, (YET), lol. I am using a CoraLife Acrylic Hydrometer. I have quite a few items from CoraLife, and Am happy with all of them, but, yeah, its a CoraLife Hydromter, made out of Acrylic, not plastic, so its heavier duty, and has a sponge inlet, so air bubbles cant get in it. Seems pretty good, I brought it to my buddy that has a Refractometer, and his readings was almost identical to my hydrometer, Only about 1 point diff.

[sponger0]

1 point can make a slight difference, but keep an eye on it with your friends refractometer

[norcal_tomtom70]

OK, will do, thanks..