Do you use Teflon tape for threaded PVC?

[LennyD4]

So when you guys plumbed your systems did you use Teflon tape if you had threaded pieces or did you just screw it in as much as you could ?

[10reefman]

I always use it , that way you dont have to wory about leaks.

[theplatypus]

Yes

[billdogg]

I use it for pvc up to 1". Largber than that, and on pieces that would be a total pia to take apart and redo, I use teflon paste. A small amount around the male piece and then just thread them together. The paste spreads evenly around ensuring a leak proof seal.

[Jsin]

Yes I use it and sometimes I use a plumbers silicone on threads and o-rings, this is different than the silicone used to hold a glass tank together.

[Breadman03]

I prefer Teflon paste.

[Playa-1]

I use teflon tape.

[Oppee]

Tape can split the plastic if its built up to high, paste is the way to go. Megaloc paste is a great product.

[markaren]

Is the paste sold at local home improvement stores?

[LennyD4]

Sweet thanks for the responses.

[KRavEN]

tape it or it will leak, forget the paste.

[Outdoorfishes]

Nothing but tape. That is my vote. Less expensive too

[jerpa]

tape it or it will leak, forget the paste.

This is simply not true. If used properly a Teflon-free paste is actually the preferred method. Most leaks in threaded PVC connections are caused by overtightening or using too much tape. Whether you use paste or tape dry fit the connection. Count the number of turns required to make it finger tight. If using teflon tape dont wrap the threads more than twice. Screw the connection the number of turns for the dry fit plus 1/4-1/2 turn more. That's it.

FWIW I like Blue Monster paste from Lowe's. I used it to plumb my system and none of the 30+ threaded connections leaked.

[LennyD4]

What is the paste called exactly? I couldn't find it on the Home Depot site. Askinge about HD because I still have some money on a giftcard for them.

[LOMBO]

Tape

[Playa-1]

There are different kinds of paste and it's messy. Stick with two or three wraps of Teflon tape and be done with it. If you touch the fitting in the future you will be glad you didn't use paste.

[psteeleb]

I use tape but will use the heavier duty stuff when I have it

I've bought Teflon tape in at least three different thickness’s. Then normal white tape is pretty thin and takes 2-3 wraps and sometimes more to get a decent seal. There is a yellow tape that must be 2-3 times thicker then the white. The yellow tape is required by code for gas lines due to its ability to create a more consistent seal then the white tape. The yellow tape works better initially and it will last longer as it won’t break apart as easily while making a threaded connection.

There is also a pink tape that is for water plumbing but is about twice as thick as the white and like the yellow has a better chance of both the initial seal and longer lasting seal due to it’s durability.

White = normal water pipe but requires several wraps and may still be an issue

Pink = cost a bit more but is far superior to the white tape for creating a seal and lasting - but I don't see it very often

Yellow = is required by code on gas pipe threaded connections for its superior abilities to make and hold a seal.

[LennyD4]

Great. Thanks for that info psteeleb.

[kcress]

I use anything BUT tape with PVC. It often fails to help with sealing on the junk threads provided with PVC these days. I use Rectorseal 5 and THAT works nicely and reliably.

http://www.rectorseal.com/product-data/rectorseal-no-5/dsno5.htm

It should be noted that tape and teflon paste are not sealents, whereas RectorSeal is a sealant.

When I assembled my tank with tape I had about 4 aggravating drips with tape. I had to laboriously remove lots of piping. I reassembled it exactly the same way with Rectorseal and had zero leaks.

http://www.hardwareworld.com/files/pi/lR/M/10KB.jpg

[ECFENCING]

I use anything BUT tape with PVC. It often fails to help with sealing on the junk threads provided with PVC these days. I use Rectorseal 5 and THAT works nicely and reliably.

http://www.rectorseal.com/product-data/rectorseal-no-5/dsno5.htm

It should be noted that tape and teflon paste are not sealents, whereas RectorSeal is a sealant.

When I assembled my tank with tape I had about 4 aggravating drips with tape. I had to laboriously remove lots of piping. I reassembled it exactly the same way with Rectorseal and had zero leaks.

http://www.hardwareworld.com/files/pi/lR/M/10KB.jpg

Resurrecting an old thread butI just wanted to add to the list of those that use pipe dope. I also used Rector Seal No. 5. It smells awful. If I had to do it again I would use Rector Seal T plus 2. At least rector seal No. 5 is soft setting so it will not harden and you can undo the connection. Seems like others have used Rector Seal No. 5 with no ill effects. I'll use pipe dope for sure on my future builds.

[SC Reefaholic]

Used tape for years. Then tried the paste. Will NEVER go back to tape.

[dmh8801]

What is the paste called exactly? I couldn't find it on the Home Depot site. Askinge about HD because I still have some money on a giftcard for them.

Liquid Teflon, auto parts stores will carry it. Not sure about HD.

[billdogg]

It is called plumbers paste, PTFE paste, or a couple other names that escape me right now. You will find it right there with the PVC glue/teflon tapeat any big box hardware store. It is 100% reef safe and very esay to use. It can be a bit messy at first, but a little goes a long way.

[dinwiddie90]

+1 on the tape

[jimlin]

i use tape.

[ECFENCING]

Read this

http://www.lascofittings.com/supportcenter/TheDosandDontsThreadedPlastic.asp


I've used tape in the past and it has to be used correctly to work but I find using the paste makes a seal whereas Teflon doesn't.

[Jeff000]

Nothing but tape. That is my vote. Less expensive too

Use the pipe dope, it's far better than tape in every way.
If you can't afford the 7 dollars for a can that will last a lifetime then maybe this isn't the hobby for you.

[Speed]

absolutely use tape

only thing I use dope on are black pipe natural gas fittings

[Twistofer]

Tape. Pipe dope may be safe...maybe not...????

[hoppycalif]

Teflon tape is primarily a lubricant, enabling you to tighten the connection enough to get a seal. But, PVC fittings aren't nearly as strong as metal pipe fittings, and may crack before you can get them tight enough to be leak free. Manufacturers of PVC fittings always say never use teflon tape on them or the fittings may crack. I have used both, but only use pipe dope if I am concerned about a cracking fitting.

[sleepydoc]

The general recommendation is not to use teflon with PVC fittings see this link (http://www.lascofittings.com/supportcenter/TheDosandDontsThreadedPlastic.asp), but then I found this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auyhm7YKQEI) from Spears.

My understanding is the major problem with PVC fittings is over tightening. The threads are actually slightly conical, not cylindrical, so if you over tighten them it will split the female connector. By reducing friction, teflon products tend to lead to over tightening and failure. So regardless of what you use, don't over tighten!

[ECFENCING]

The general recommendation is not to use teflon with PVC fittings see this link (http://www.lascofittings.com/supportcenter/TheDosandDontsThreadedPlastic.asp), but then I found this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Auyhm7YKQEI) from Spears.

My understanding is the major problem with PVC fittings is over tightening. The threads are actually slightly conical, not cylindrical, so if you over tighten them it will split the female connector. By reducing friction, teflon products tend to lead to over tightening and failure. So regardless of what you use, don't over tighten!

Thanks for the video.Very informative

[uncleof6]

It is called plumbers paste, PTFE paste, or a couple other names that escape me right now. You will find it right there with the PVC glue/teflon tapeat any big box hardware store. It is 100% reef safe and very esay to use. It can be a bit messy at first, but a little goes a long way.

Nope, it is called a non-hardening thread sealant—and usually does not have PTFE as an ingredient. There is a big difference, unfortunately I am too tired to elaborate. Lasco, has a good article on their website that says NO TAPE, on plastic fittings. (Also says don't mix sch 80 and sch 20 threaded fittings either&mdahs;but that is another thread long topic.) That is not what the tape is for. Tape is for metal pipe. It amazes me how many "professional plumbers" misuse teflon tape every chance they get...

[The Plummer]

It should be noted that tape and teflon paste are not sealents, whereas RectorSeal is a sealant.

http://www.hardwareworld.com/files/pi/lR/M/10KB.jpg

This is actually the most correct statement of fact regarding thread sealing.

Teflon is not a thread sealant, but rather a thread lubricant. The only reason Teflon has some success in a leak free mechanical connection is the installer can engage the threads deeper as the friction is reduced and the connection becomes tighter on itself.

That's not to say that some actual "sealants" do contain Teflon in their composition, such automotive Teflon sealant.

As a tradesman in the industry (16 yrs) I've discovered nearly a 100% successful procedure to ensure leak free joint. If a fitting leaks with my method, most likely there's a manufacture defect and its going to leak anyway.

My method is simple, I use both, three wraps of tape (that's three overlapping thicknesses across the entire length of the threaded joint, in the direction the threads are tightening (usually clockwise)), then a light dab of the tried and true "leather lock", commonly sold under the name "Mega loc".

Incidentally, most retail box home improvement stores are the culprit on this phenomena. As the reality is, if its in the store as a regular product, it's either built "for" that specific store (specifically built to substandard standards), or it is in some way rejected as a quality part and not worthy of being sold to professional tradesman. A tradesman worth his salt can tell where the product came from just by fittment. Always buy plumbing parts from professional suppliers and avoid the headaches associated with dealing with substandard products. Your expensive flooring will thank you.

One more tip, in instances where one has to make a mechanical connection from one type of material to another (example: copper to plastic), ALWAYS (if possible) make the connection where the stronger material is the female thread and the weaker material the male thread. Remember, IPS (pipe) threads are tapered and work by friction compression, and when a stronger material is screwed into a weaker material, your just begging for a fracture type failure.

Hope this helps.

Whoops, didn't see that there was a page 2 on this thread, sorry for the redundant info.

[Jeff000]

Incidentally, most retail box home improvement stores are the culprit on this phenomena. As the reality is, if its in the store as a regular product, it's either built "for" that specific store (specifically built to substandard standards), or it is in some way rejected as a quality part and not worthy of being sold to professional tradesman. A tradesman worth his salt can tell where the product came from just by fittment. Always buy plumbing parts from professional suppliers and avoid the headaches associated with dealing with substandard products. Your expensive flooring will thank you.


As someone that worked for ipex making and shipping the fittings, this is absolutely not true.

The parts all went into the same boxes off the same line.
When we shipped an order it was the oldest stock sent out first, although for the most part they were loading the last few boxes onto the trucks still warm.

[planedoc]

I've always added a small amount of 100% silicon (RTV) I tighten a turn more than hand tight. I've never had any leaks and things come apart very easily.

[The Plummer]

As someone that worked for ipex making and shipping the fittings, this is absolutely not true.

The parts all went into the same boxes off the same line.
When we shipped an order it was the oldest stock sent out first, although for the most part they were loading the last few boxes onto the trucks still warm.

Can you speak reliably for Charolette, Lasco, Delta, Moen, or the vast multitude of other suppliers.

Maybe Ipex doesn't, and if they don't, I'll bet the prices at box stores are not cheaper than a professional supplier.

I know for a fact that retail box home improvement stores specifically make contract deals for products known as "retail grade" which are inferior in quality, or substandard where possible.

You'll not convince me otherwise, as I've had far too many vendors confirm this as well as personal, anecdotal experiences to further confirm this phenomena.

Believe what you want though.

[Jeff000]

Can you speak reliably for Charolette, Lasco, Delta, Moen, or the vast multitude of other suppliers.

Maybe Ipex doesn't, and if they don't, I'll bet the prices at box stores are not cheaper than a professional supplier.

I know for a fact that retail box home improvement stores specifically make contract deals for products known as "retail grade" which are inferior in quality, or substandard where possible.

You'll not convince me otherwise, as I've had far too many vendors confirm this as well as personal, anecdotal experiences to further confirm this phenomena.

Believe what you want though.

Those are also different part numbers.

Same as buying electrical stuff, lots looks the same, but it's different part numbers.

Saying the items are engineered substandard isn't really right, they are designed for a different use than commercial or industrial grade parts.

Pricing at different places, yes it's generally better at wholesalers.

[The Plummer]

Those are also different part numbers.

Same as buying electrical stuff, lots looks the same, but it's different part numbers.

Saying the items are engineered substandard isn't really right, they are designed for a different use than commercial or industrial grade parts.

Pricing at different places, yes it's generally better at wholesalers.

Agreed, they are indeed different part numbers. Therein lies the deception.
The inferior product "looks" exactly like the quality product to the untrained eye, and the SLIGHTLY lower price gives the illusion that one is getting a "better" deal. When in reality, the profit margin to the box store is actually higher than that of the "legitimate" quality based businesses.

And to top it off, factory seconds are also given a different part number so as to not confuse the manufacturer when receiving returns, repair, or complaints.

So in essence, without realizing it, you've confirmed my position.

We live in such a throw away society that price is the only determination.

There is both a positive and a negative to this deception. The positive is increased sales (immediate profit) to the manufacturer. But the downside is far more detrimental to the manufacturer in that the reputation for quality suffers over time.

It just helps to be an informed consumer.

[jerpa]

I take issue that the parts are merely designed for a different purpose when speaking of standard fittings such as those being discussed here. Threads that aren't uniform, fittings that aren't round, weak seams, and large enough tolerances that fittings don't accept the pipe they are designed for is shoddy manufacturing regardless of the intended purpose. These aren't rare occurrences with the parts at big box stores and it has steadily gotten worse since I began frequenting them on a daily basis a decade ago.

[Jeff000]

I take issue that the parts are merely designed for a different purpose when speaking of standard fittings such as those being discussed here. Threads that aren't uniform, fittings that aren't round, weak seams, and large enough tolerances that fittings don't accept the pipe they are designed for is shoddy manufacturing regardless of the intended purpose. These aren't rare occurrences with the parts at big box stores and it has steadily gotten worse since I began frequenting them on a daily basis a decade ago.

As I already said, in regards to at least IPEX, there is no difference in the PVC parts you get a wholesaler or a big box store. I'd bet all pipe and pipe fittings are this way, just not cost effective to have two lines going. And in manufacturing, at least ipex) there is only the one grade, everything else is scrapped to be remelted. It's not cost effective to have more than one grade/standard come off the same line.

The problem is the chinese parts that are starting to flood the market. I feel the same pain in the electrical world. Although the issue is from the wholesalers too.

If you know big box stores are getting worse why keep going back?

[planedoc]

As I already said, in regards to at least IPEX, there is no difference in the PVC parts you get a wholesaler or a big box store. I'd bet all pipe and pipe fittings are this way, just not cost effective to have two lines going. And in manufacturing, at least ipex) there is only the one grade, everything else is scrapped to be remelted. It's not cost effective to have more than one grade/standard come off the same line.

The problem is the chinese parts that are starting to flood the market. I feel the same pain in the electrical world. Although the issue is from the wholesalers too.

If you know big box stores are getting worse why keep going back?

I have 3 people in my work place that are labeled "conspiracy theorists" . Everyone is out to get them and screw them over. They have Web site's that prove their claims are real and many others support their claims. It's real? We are all getting screwed? Sometimes you just have live and let live.

[sleepydoc]

The convenient thing about conspiracy theories is that any evidence that disproves them is part of the conspiracy, and thus just proves the theory. Best just to leave them in their own conspiracy world.

As to the fittings, the difference in manufacturing costs has to be trivial, so part of me has a hard time believing that a company would manufacture different fittings to lower standards, but unfortunately the other part of me knows it very well may be true. Either way, I my limited experience, I have yet to have a part from Lowes or Home Depot fail, whether they are 'professional quality' or not, so it really doesn't matter to me.

[jerpa]

As I already said, in regards to at least IPEX, there is no difference in the PVC parts you get a wholesaler or a big box store. I'd bet all pipe and pipe fittings are this way, just not cost effective to have two lines going. And in manufacturing, at least ipex) there is only the one grade, everything else is scrapped to be remelted. It's not cost effective to have more than one grade/standard come off the same line.

The problem is the chinese parts that are starting to flood the market. I feel the same pain in the electrical world. Although the issue is from the wholesalers too.

If you know big box stores are getting worse why keep going back?

No conspiracy theories from me. The Plummer stated the parts sold through these contracts to big box stores were substandard. You stated they were retail grade and designed for different purposes. If the issues I mentioned are the attempts at "retail" grade PVC fittings then IMO they are substandard. I don't choose where my employer sends me for supplies unfortunately.

[Sn8kbyt]

+1 on tape

[The Plummer]

No conspiracy theories from me. The Plummer stated the parts sold through these contracts to big box stores were substandard. You stated they were retail grade and designed for different purposes. If the issues I mentioned are the attempts at "retail" grade PVC fittings then IMO they are substandard. I don't choose where my employer sends me for supplies unfortunately.

Sorry I derailed this thread, lots of opinions here, and no I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

As a truly quality concerned professional. I've inquired directly with Delta, Moen, American Standard, Lasco, Jaccuzzi, Dewalt, Milwaukee, & GE. They ALL say the same thing. The bottom line is IF IT'S ON THE FLOOR (of a box store), IT IS EITHER BUILT TO A SUBSTANDARD GRADE, OR IT'S A FACTORY SECOND!!! If you specifically special order a product that is not normally carried, it will be the same quality as what professional stores sell, BUT it will cost more than buying from the professional store. That's a fact.

Don't believe me, just open say a vanity faucet box, pick it up, hold it, squeeze it, look at the cheap plastic drain assy., notice its missing the (usually supplied) supply nuts, the pop up assy. Is plastic and WILL fail.

Now go to a plumbing supply house, open the catalog, find the faucet that LOOKS just like the one at the box store, ask to see it. Pick it up and squeeze it. Notice how its obviously much heavier, notice how the metal doesn't deflect under your squeezing, notice the quality metal drain and pop up assy., notice the supplied supply nuts. Now tell me that the box stores don't try this same deceptive tactic every place they possibly can.

As far as two separate lines for fittings, no they don't do that. What the manufacturer does do is, grade their rejects and sort them for box stores, as well as when the run a is for a specific box store order, they simply save labor in the inspection process. If it's good, great. If its bad so what, spend your extre time, return it, we'll give you another part to TRY.

I've got so much personal experience with not only plumbing, tools, appliances, lumber, electrical, appliances, you name it.

You do what you want, but for me, I advise my customers to return what they've already bought and ill supply them with the same appearing product and warranty it, including labor. If they chose not to heed my warning, I expressly advise that there is NO WARRANTY. You'd be surprised how many of my customers finally admit that they should have taken my advice from the start.

It's amazing how many people will take advice from They guy selling the plumbing product today that was mixing paint or shagging carts off the lot yesterday, over a professional with 16 years experience and the whole reason they hired me was because of my reputation. Go figure.

[theyangman]

+1 tape

[Octobot]

Deleted comment... Shared a link that had already been shared.

[KSU_WILDCAT]

Used tape at first and 75% of them leaked, now everything is paste with no leaks.

[ThisGuy12]

+1 on tape.

[uncleof6]

+1 on tape.

This really is not an opinion question, rather a question of what is right, and proper, and what is not right and not proper. Hands down, when the manufacturers say it is improper, it is improper&irregardless of how many plumbers/self proclaimed "master plummers" say to use tape. It is really simple. Right and wrong. +1 to other comments does not address the real issue with this question.

[uncleof6]

Not to add fuel to the fire, however, the cheap parts sold at big box stores are inconsistent, and inferior quality to fittings made by Spears, Lasco, Charlotte Pipe & Foundry, and a couple others. Over the time since big box stores trashed the hardware sales industry, I have seen this first hand, and have tossed entire boxes/cases of fittings in the trash as nothing but junk. It is time that folks just accept it: big box stores exist by selling the cheapest junk they can get their hands on, and predominately it comes from China.

[Gorgok]

Not to add fuel to the fire, however, the cheap parts sold at big box stores are inconsistent, and inferior quality to fittings made by Spears, Lasco, Charlotte Pipe & Foundry, and a couple others.

The Lowes i shop seems to carry Lasco, at least thats all i have in the parts bin.

[uncleof6]

The Lowes i shop seems to carry Lasco, at least thats all i have in the parts bin.

Well that does not surprise me much: even the service is better at Lowes...

[ThisGuy12]

This really is not an opinion question, rather a question of what is right, and proper, and what is not right and not proper. Hands down, when the manufacturers say it is improper, it is improper&irregardless of how many plumbers/self proclaimed "master plummers" say to use tape. It is really simple. Right and wrong. +1 to other comments does not address the real issue with this question.

Funny, I distinctly recall a certain someone championing AGAINST silicones that aren't made for aquariums. You stated the same thing there as you are here, it won't work because that's what the manufacturer says and not what I do.

What works for you doesn't make it the "right" and the "only" way to build something. If the manufacturers told you to jumped off a bridge would you do it? Feel free to add your opinion to threads but stop with the holier than thou tone of your posts despite what you may think, you don't know it all.

Teflon tape works just fine if you don't over do it. I've used it for years on everything from threaded pressure lines to faucet connections to air systems. Is it the best method? No , but it works, the op asked if it would work in the application. It will.

[sandyland]

It's amazing how many people will take advice from They guy selling the plumbing product today that was mixing paint or shagging carts off the lot yesterday, over a professional with 16 years experience and the whole reason they hired me was because of my reputation. Go figure.

So true. I have found that customers often have their own ideas and don't appreciate being told that they are wrong. Even though you are not really telling them their wrong you are just giving your opinion based on professional experience. If you want to win their harts over its all in the delivery. You can kill more flies with honey.
+1 home depot parts are inferior.

[uncleof6]

Funny, I distinctly recall a certain someone championing AGAINST silicones that aren't made for aquariums. You stated the same thing there as you are here, it won't work because that's what the manufacturer says and not what I do.

Well since there are no silicones made for aquariums, at the manufacturing end...I think you are not recalling correctly...I do not believe I said tape won't work, what I said was it is not proper, per the fitting manufacturers, and what is supposed to be used (again according to the manufacturers) is non-hardening thread sealant. Really simple, straightforward information.

What works for you doesn't make it the "right" and the "only" way to build something. If the manufacturers told you to jumped off a bridge would you do it? Feel free to add your opinion to threads but stop with the holier than thou tone of your posts despite what you may think, you don't know it all.

It is not a case of what works for me, what works for you, or what works for anyone at anytime. It is a case where the manufacturer says "this is the way it is." Folks either take what the manufacturer says as the way it is, or they argue about it. It is not an opinion; look it up.

Your continuous personal attacks are getting old...just because what I say may singe your tail feathers, exposes a gap in your knowledge, just upsets you, or isn't sugar coated, it is still based on solid information, and is not an excuse to make personal comments. If the only way you can make yourself look good, is to make those sort of comments, then there is something wrong with your argument. In other words, maybe you should make your case based on what the people that DO know say: the fitting manufacturers.

Teflon tape works just fine if you don't over do it. I've used it for years on everything from threaded pressure lines to faucet connections to air systems. Is it the best method? No , but it works, the op asked if it would work in the application. It will.Advice should be given on what is best, based on solid information, not what will work, based on what so and so does. What will work advice is what is keeping this hobby in the dark, and uninformed. Your opinion is it works fine. The available information, from the manufacturer, says it is not fine.

[ThisGuy12]

Well since there are no silicones made for aquariums, at the manufacturing end...I think you are not recalling correctly...I do not believe I said tape won't work, what I said was it is not proper, per the fitting manufacturers, and what is supposed to be used (again according to the manufacturers) is non-hardening thread sealant. Really simple, straightforward information.



It is not a case of what works for me, what works for you, or what works for anyone at anytime. It is a case where the manufacturer says "this is the way it is." Folks either take what the manufacturer says as the way it is, or they argue about it. It is not an opinion; look it up.

Your continuous personal attacks are getting old...just because what I say may singe your tail feathers, exposes a gap in your knowledge, just upsets you, or isn't sugar coated, it is still based on solid information, and is not an excuse to make personal comments. If the only way you can make yourself look good, is to make those sort of comments, then there is something wrong with your argument. In other words, maybe you should make your case based on what the people that DO know say: the fitting manufacturers.

Advice should be given on what is best, based on solid information, not what will work, based on what so and so does. What will work advice is what is keeping this hobby in the dark, and uninformed. Your opinion is it works fine. The available information, from the manufacturer, says it is not fine.


Continue to live in your own little world, your "advice" is given based on what you believe the manufacturers tell you to be true. It isn't all that cut and dry.

For what it's worth when it comes to construction products I do know what I'm talking about, I deal with them on a daily basis in much larger scales, in most cases there are alternate products to achieve the same results.

You aren't "exposing" any flawed gaps in my knowledge, you're just making yourself look like an ******* and feeding people who need help information by the book, people come here looking for alternative solutions.

People who do it themselves want to "make it work" otherwise they would have went and purchased the truly expensive mainstream corporate products you speak so highly of. Will they have a problem using Teflon tape or non aquarium approved silicone? Unlikely. You do realize that manufactured parts are not 100% perfect either right? There is a margin for failure in everything that's created, including your lovely non hardening sealant, I've witnessed my fair share of threaded joints leaking using it.

I "recommend" you drop the pompous attitude of your posts and stop discrediting everyone else because it's not what you use or believe in, if you want to be by the book, so be it, it doesn't make others opinions wrong. Not everyone follows, nor should they (what would this world be like without innovation) what the big manufacturers say, do it yourself means just that, doing it yourself, be innovative, use products that may not generally be used in that application.

With that said enough of you, continue on your ways, and I'll continue on mine.

[BeanAnimal]

I've used it for years on everything from threaded pressure lines to faucet connections to air systems. Is it the best method? No , but it works, the op asked if it would work in the application. It will.

"Teflon Tape" has a place, as do other thread sealing products. "Working fine" is a rather ambiguous saying. Given an specific application, a band-aid may "work fine" as tape and in a different situation tape may "work fine" as a band-aid, but make no mistake, each is less suited to to the other's designed task.

What is being lost in the back and forth here is the simple fact that given the environment and materials, "Teflon Tape" can be (is) very problematic when compared to other options. It boils down to the simple fact of the materials, their physical properties and the way in which they interface.

In general, the larger the fitting, the less suitable the tape becomes.

From a mechanical perspective, PVC threaded fittings have tapered threads and those threads are often very poorly formed. A wrap or two of tape does not have the gap filling ability and adding more tape creates a situation where the seating force becomes extreme and causes tremendous stress on the female fitting. Give the same two mating pieces, thread sealant compound is able to fill the gaps with less force being imparted in the female side of the fitting.

While there may be many methods to accomplish a task, not all if those methods yield the same result with the same repeatability or other desired benefit(s).

In this case, the PTFE tape may work, but PTFE paste is the preferred product based on the materials and they way they interface.

The world will not end because somebody used Teflon tape on PVC threads, but the general goal of these forums and our interactions should be to learn from each other and pass on sound advice.

[fng_71]

I like duct tape

[Khemul]

Is it the best method? No , but it works, the op asked if it would work in the application. It will.
The OP asked if people use it. Not if it would work. Which is usually more of a 'should I use this?'-type question. Which makes it a bit silly to suggest something that you yourself admit is not the best method.

They also asked the question nearly 2 years ago, so I certainly hope they aren't still waiting for someone to come along and tell them it is okay to use, even if it isn't ideal. :lol:

[ThisGuy12]

The OP asked if people use it. Not if it would work. Which is usually more of a 'should I use this?'-type question. Which makes it a bit silly to suggest something that you yourself admit is not the best method.



They also asked the question nearly 2 years ago, so I certainly hope they aren't still waiting for someone to come along and tell them it is okay to use, even if it isn't ideal. :lol:


Haha could you imagine? "The strangers on the net still haven't responded, I'm so confused". Guess someone bumped the wrong thread.

Either way I used Teflon tape with no problems, in certain applications depending on the pipe sizes.

[dc]

OK kids go to your rooms.

[rdelong]

PVC Fitting manufacturers will tell you to never use tape because it deforms the threaded interface. They recommend paste and I have always used Rectorseal 5

[karimwassef]

+1 paste
-1 tape

I prefer the blue paste myself. tape is only intended for metal fittings.

[ken6217]

Aquarium sealant.
Ken

[ta2rtst]

is there anything to worry about as far as toxins that can leach into the water with any of these sealants?

[BeanAnimal]

The primary component of the product you want to use is PTFE (Teflon). You should avoid "pipe dope" or other hardening or semi-hardening thread sealers. Stick with the rectorseal 5 or similar and you will be fine.

[BeanAnimal]

Aquarium sealant.
Ken

While it may work, it is not he appropriate product (for several reasons). One of the primary concerns is that once dry, it is nonconforming if the joint is moved.

[SmoothSmoke]

The primary component of the product you want to use is PTFE (Teflon). You should avoid "pipe dope" or other hardening or semi-hardening thread sealers. Stick with the rectorseal 5 or similar and you will be fine.

Which of these two is the one I want to use?

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=28976386

or

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=28976376

Also will this rectorseal create a permanent bond?

[SmoothSmoke]

Or this one?

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=20751386

[mcgyvr]

Which of these two is the one I want to use?

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=28976386

or

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=28976376

Also will this rectorseal create a permanent bond?

The yellow one should work as it specifically states PVC..

[SmoothSmoke]

The yellow one should work as it specifically states PVC..

Great, just bought the #5 but in a white can. Hope it works. Thanks!

[Soolaimon]

Used tape at first and 75% of them leaked, now everything is paste with no leaks.

+1

I had the same experience

[SmoothSmoke]

Could rectorseal have caused this??

[uncleof6]

Purely anecdotal information: For a very long time, (years) I have used Spears Blue 75 thread sealant. In many systems (measured in a few hundreds of) no deaths can be attributed to the thread sealant...for what it is worth. Custom Aquatic (here in O'Side) sell this product to the aquarium hobbyists, in profuse amounts.

SmoothSmoke: What the heck were you using thread sealant on the nut threads of a bulkhead for? We can chalk this one up to not thinking about what you were doing...and getting overzealous with a wrench....or using force in some manner that was way not called for.

I don't use Rectorseal, so cannot comment on it.

[SmoothSmoke]

I read that using rectorseal is better than teflon tape. Did I use it wrong? So no paste nor tape next time?

[Gorgok]

That looks like a nut that is either torqued too much (ive done it on engine blocks before, no fun) or a plumbing setup that hangs off the bulkhead without support. Both are bad.

Nothing should go on those outside threads other than the nut. The inside threads were fine to seal.

Looking again at the picture it looks like that is a slip fitting, so it was not plumbed. Way too much torque then as i assume it was brand new too (not blasted by light for years). If it didn't seal (only reason to continue torquing past finger tight and a little) then you should remove it and fix that flashing (the line in the top/bottom of the flange face). Cut/scrape them off with a razor blade and try again.

[SmoothSmoke]

It was connected to this elbow and ultra flex pvc. No support for the hose. Perhaps too much weight of the hose?

[SmoothSmoke]

Here is the pic

[uncleof6]

I read that using rectorseal is better than teflon tape. Did I use it wrong? So no paste nor tape next time?

Rectorseal is better than using tape. However, I know not much about it, other than it is a non-hardening thread sealant, with a positive lock...good or bad, I don't know. You don't want the threads locked...just sealed...

The problem is where you used it, it was unnecessary, as the gasket seals the outside of the bulkhead (even though it is on the flange side.) No tape, thread sealant, nothing except for the nut goes on the nutside of the bulkhead. (internal threads can be sealed using a thread sealant) Better is a socket on the outside, where threads present a leak risk at best. Of course poor solvent welding technique presents a decent risk as well.

The broken bulkhead was excessive force, not the rectorseal however.

[uncleof6]

It was connected to this elbow and ultra flex pvc. No support for the hose. Perhaps too much weight of the hose?

Very likely yes. At least can't say for certain you strong armed it anymore :)

To everyone: Support your plumbing!! Gravity has a tendancy to pull stuff down to the floor...

[SmoothSmoke]

The hits keep on coming. After your suggestion. I went out and bought some support clamps. Look at what I noticed om my return. Over tightening crack?

[Gorgok]

You bottomed the hell out of that one...

I'm gonna say you had a combination of problems. The stuff you used makes stuff slick, and easy to over tighten. You measure tightness in the good n' tight range. And you hanged plumbing off the bulkhead.

[SmoothSmoke]

You bottomed the hell out of that one...

I'm gonna say you had a combination of problems. The stuff you used makes stuff slick, and easy to over tighten. You measure tightness in the good n' tight range. And you hanged plumbing off the bulkhead.

Yeah I think you're right. The rectorseal makes it very slick and it never really tightened till it was way too deep. I'm sure the paste was the cause of the over tightening. Since I really didn't feel any resistance.

So can I hang the plumbing like pictured, just need to clamp the hose?

This is becoming more than I bargained for. Still hanging in there with this build, barely.

[slowflow]

+1 on tape.

[djmx2002]

+1, should always use it, I had to do half of my plumbing because i didn't use it, and everything leaked...

[staplesofficewr]

The hits keep on coming. After your suggestion. I went out and bought some support clamps. Look at what I noticed om my return. Over tightening crack?

Are your fittings ABS?

[Ontheway]

In some other forum ppl state that they use rectorseal over Teflon tape. Since I could not remove the tape from threads, I think I have to follow this route (Teflon tape was water tight but not airtight). And if this works, I think puts an end to discussions.

[uncleof6]

In some other forum ppl state that they use rectorseal over Teflon tape. Since I could not remove the tape from threads, I think I have to follow this route (Teflon tape was water tight but not airtight). And if this works, I think puts an end to discussions.

Interesting, I wonder why they don't follow the directions, or listen to what the manufacturers of the plastic fittings have to say. It is fairly easy to see that people in "the other forum" don't know what they are doing. That should not come as much of a surprise though. The initial malfunction was because they used the tape in the first place... Using both is worse than using neither. The largest reason for the propagation of bad information is that folks will search till they find someone that will tell them what they want to hear, rather than the truth of a subject. :)

If you cannot get the tape off the fitting, I have never heard of such a thing occuring, even though it might slow you down... replace the fitting...it is not enough money to blink over...that is where the discussion will end... ;)

The only time the debates will end is when most people understand and follow the simple and clear instructions for using any particular product, and become familiar with what should and should not be done with, or used on, particular products.

To add to previous posts: The True Blue is the wrong stuff, this is the right stuff:

http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/rectorseal-t-plus-2/

It is also kinda of interesting that after 13000 views, and 89 posts, this debate is nowhere near being resolved....even a significant number of plumbers can't get this one right...

http://www.lascofittings.com/threads (http://www.lascofittings.com/threads)

[Ontheway]

Just ordered two 50mg bottles of t plus 2. For teflon removal, actually I did not try removing the teflon from threads yet, seems difficult, if fails, will replace it with another threaded pipe. I do not want to deal with mess of a not-so-good job, will be a lot of headaches. No hurries. Its already 2 months since build of tank but may spend another two for an ever-lasting system.

[Zacktosterone]

100% yes use it. on unions no, the rubber stopper does the job. on other applications, always

[Da Maui life]

Rectorseal is better than using tape. However, I know not much about it, other than it is a non-hardening thread sealant, with a positive lock...good or bad, I don't know. You don't want the threads locked...just sealed...

As a user, I’m not aware of any Rectorseal designed for PVC or any other Rectorseal thread sealant having a lock set compound. Even looking over the wedsite I don’t see a lock-set formula? The one product we should consider using for the aquira PVC plumbing eg threads, is #5 a soft-set recommended for potable water applications. No. 5 Special does not make the potable water application claim.

RectorSeal® No. 5® pipe thread sealant is a soft-set,slow drying compound which seals, lubricates, and protects threaded pipe and fittings. It can be pressurized immediately for piping up through 2″ and 100 psi(for natural gas, air and water only) and is ideal for application with a wide variety of fluids and gases, including potable water applications. Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper, aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced and PVC pipe. Not recommended for use with ABS,CPVC pipe or oxygen, chlorine and other oxidizers
http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/rectorseal-no-5/


RectorSeal® No. 5® Special pipe thread sealant is a variation of the basic RectorSeal® No. 5 formulation. For use where a low odor sealant with low temperature application is required. It is a non-staining, soft set compound specifically formulated for use on gas piping or when gas detection equipment is used. Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper, aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced and PVC pipe. http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/rectorseal-no-5-special/

[Da Maui life]

In some other forum ppl state that they use rectorseal over Teflon tape. Since I could not remove the tape from threads, I think I have to follow this route (Teflon tape was water tight but not airtight). And if this works, I think puts an end to discussions.

Simply put you don’t do that. You're not follow the manufactures guidelines for RectorSeal products. How can threads be watertight but, not airtight?

[Da Maui life]

100% yes use it. on unions no, the rubber stopper does the job. on other applications, always

For unions it’s been recommended to rub a [thin coat] of silicon safe lubricant over the o-ring. This will aid in keeping the o-ring from pinching, twisting, distorting and causing leaks when tightening the thread.

[Ontheway]

How can threads be watertight but, not airtight?


This is the case, no water leaks, but there are air bubbles from siphon outlet, while both ends submerged.

[uncleof6]

As a user, I’m not aware of any Rectorseal designed for PVC or any other Rectorseal thread sealant having a lock set compound. Even looking over the wedsite I don’t see a lock-set formula? The one product we should consider using for the aquira PVC plumbing eg threads, is #5 a soft-set recommended for potable water applications. No. 5 Special does not make the potable water application claim.

RectorSeal® No. 5® pipe thread sealant is a soft-set,slow drying compound which seals, lubricates, and protects threaded pipe and fittings. It can be pressurized immediately for piping up through 2″ and 100 psi(for natural gas, air and water only) and is ideal for application with a wide variety of fluids and gases, including potable water applications. Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper, aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced and PVC pipe. Not recommended for use with ABS,CPVC pipe or oxygen, chlorine and other oxidizers
http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/rectorseal-no-5/


RectorSeal® No. 5® Special pipe thread sealant is a variation of the basic RectorSeal® No. 5 formulation. For use where a low odor sealant with low temperature application is required. It is a non-staining, soft set compound specifically formulated for use on gas piping or when gas detection equipment is used. Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper, aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced and PVC pipe. http://www.rectorseal.com/index.php/rectorseal-no-5-special/

In the interim between the original posts in this thread, and now, I spent some time on the phone (again) with Spears, Lasco, and Rectorseal. The comment you quoted was based on informaton found on the internet after a brief search. We all know how reliable that is not...so no arguments on that.

Then you have to sit and figure out the differences between "non-hardening" (called for by the fitting manufacturers), soft-setting, and non-setting sealants, and which translates to which. Non-hadeneing is a state where the fitting can be turned, and then retightened and the seal will remain intact. Any product setting, or soft-setting (both dry) is not going to display this characteristic.

I have used the spears flavor for a long time. (Blue 75.) It is specifically formulated for use with thermoplastic fittings. As well as some others.

http://www.spearsmfg.com/prod_brochures/BLU-2-0200_2008_web.pdf

As far as 'potable water' goes, I am currently running T plus 2 on a rather well populated reef tank, and anxiously awaiting the mass tank wipe out because it is not listed for 'potable water.' Which probably only means it was not submitted for testing...Guess we will find out in a year or two...

"RectorSeal® T Plus 2® pipe thread sealant is a non-setting, multi-purpose compound which contains PTFE, plus synthetic fibers to create a stronger seal. Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper, aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced, PVC, CPVC, and ABS pipe. T Plus 2 may be pressurized immediately following application."

What can be taken away is that sealant manufacturers and fitting manufacturers are never quite going to agree, which is more reliable? Fitting manufacturers know the characteristics of their fittings. Sealant manufacturers try to cover as many bases as possible, using as few products as they can, but I hope this does not morph into a debate on 'which sealant to use' rather than 'to tape or not to tape.' which, considering the recommendations of the fitting manufacturers, is just a little bit silly to begin with.

Since it was the 'pro' plumbers that got this wrong in the first place, an individual not being a plumber is a plus... (sleep easy Ca1ore ;) )

[uncleof6]

Simply put you don’t do that. You're not follow the manufactures guidelines for RectorSeal products. How can threads be watertight but, not airtight?

It is very easy for threads to be water tight, and not be air tight! Air will move though an opening that is far smaller than what water will move through. (air is compressible, water is not.)

Air leaks in a water line go 1 way: into the line, not out of it. As water flows through the line, air is sucked into the line, just like with a venturi "valve." It is very unlikely than any water will leak out of minute air leaks, though the air leaks will affect the performance of a siphon drain line. Water leaking from a join is from a larger gap in the join, and will not suck air, because it is pushing water out...of course it can easily depend on the location of the 'hole' in relation to the fitting and water flow direction.

[hart24601]

I have used tape with no leaks and been happy, but I guess I am going to plumbing hell because of it so I will switch to paste.

[Lavoisier]

Thanks Uncle for your time on this. Very clear write up..."you can lead a horse to water"...guys use the thread sealant! If you use teflon tape it will at some point crack a joint (has happened to me twice over the years) and does not seal as well! Why take the risk?

[Da Maui life]

In the interim between the original posts in this thread, and now, I spent some time on the phone (again) with Spears, Lasco, and Rectorseal. The comment you quoted was based on informaton found on the internet after a brief search. We all know how reliable that is not...so no arguments on that. Yes we do.

Then you have to sit and figure out the differences between "non-hardening" (called for by the fitting manufacturers), soft-setting, and non-setting sealants, and which translates to which. Non-hadeneing is a state where the fitting can be turned, and then retightened and the seal will remain intact. Any product setting, or soft-setting (both dry) is not going to display this characteristic.The differences between "non-hardening” soft-setting, non-setting sealants are pretty easy to figure out which translates to which. Yes they all dry over time, infact I’ve seen both soft-setting and unsetting sealants rock hard on old applications.


I have used the spears flavor for a long time. (Blue 75.) It is specifically formulated for use with thermoplastic fittings. As well as some others.



http://www.spearsmfg.com/prod_brochures/BLU-2-0200_2008_web.pdf

As far as 'potable water' goes, I am currently running T plus 2 on a rather well populated reef tank, and anxiously awaiting the mass tank wipe out because it is not listed for 'potable water.' Which probably only means it was not submitted for testing...Guess we will find out in a year or two...And you may never have any issues with T plus 2, that’s not the point i was conveying. My comment was simply pointing out what is listed/tested for potable water use,lead & silicon free.Sound advice. One can certainly use the brand of his/her choice. No need for the snarky comment:lol2:

"RectorSeal® T Plus 2® pipe thread sealant is a non-setting, multi-purpose compound which contains PTFE, plus synthetic fibers to create a stronger seal. Recommended for use on threaded galvanized steel, iron, brass, copper, aluminum, stainless steel, polyethylene, fiberglass reinforced, PVC, CPVC, and ABS pipe. T Plus 2 may be pressurized immediately following application."

What can be taken away is that sealant manufacturers and fitting manufacturers are never quite going to agree, which is more reliable? Fitting manufacturers know the characteristics of their fittings. Sealant manufacturers try to cover as many bases as possible, using as few products as they can, but I hope this does not morph into a debate on 'which sealant to use' rather than 'to tape or not to tape.' which, considering the recommendations of the fitting manufacturers, is just a little bit silly to begin with.

Since it was the 'pro' plumbers that got this wrong in the first place, an individual not being a plumber is a plus... (sleep easy Ca1ore ;) ) I have nearly three decades in a specific trade and more than half of that time as a licensed Contractor in two states, often dealing with their work, I know all I need to know about Plumbers.

[uncleof6]

And you may never have any issues with T plus 2, that’s not the point i was conveying. My comment was simply pointing out what is listed/tested for potable water use,lead & silicon free.Sound advice. One can certainly use the brand of his/her choice. No need for the snarky comment:lol2:

And pvc is not listed for potable water in residential either, even though stamped NSF, it has BPA and Thalates in it and rumors of lead and other things, this is not why it is not approved for residential however. NO one has a problem using it. Copper can be used in potable water systems. Copper will wipe out a tank in short order. That should pretty much clear up what the 'potable water' end of all of this is, in relation to aquariums...what would carry a bit more weight would be FDA and USDA approvals...(Tplus2 is NSF/ANSI certified 61-G & 372 identically to the Rectorseal 5...)

[Da Maui life]

And pvc is not listed for potable water in residential either, even though stamped NSF, it has BPA and Thalates in it and rumors of lead and other things, this is not why it is not approved for residential however. NO one has a problem using it. Copper can be used in potable water systems. Copper will wipe out a tank in short order. That should pretty much clear up what the 'potable water' end of all of this is, in relation to aquariums...what would carry a bit more weight would be FDA and USDA approvals...(Tplus2 is NSF/ANSI certified 61-G & 372 identically to the Rectorseal 5...)


I can see the point you're trying to make with PVC however copper has no relation or relevance to the aquira plumbing conversation. I’m sure municipality codes vary from state-state, and research is at hand, but it’s my understanding that PVC is used for cold water only, and CPVC is used for both hot and cold water, and copper being the gold standard in home construction. PVC, CPVC both are approved for use with drinking water. Safety issues are mainly considered a concern in PVC pipe that was manufactured before 1977 The issues with PVC in home use is leaks, it will degrade when exposed to UV light such as sunlight and also high temperature. Its pressure rating is to be de-rated at high temperatures. Because of this, PVC is not approved for use in houses for potable water.

[uncleof6]

I can see the point you're trying to make with PVC however copper has no relation or relevance to the aquira plumbing conversation. I’m sure municipality codes vary from state-state, and research is at hand, but it’s my understanding that PVC is used for cold water only, and CPVC is used for both hot and cold water, and copper being the gold standard in home construction. PVC, CPVC both are approved for use with drinking water. Safety issues are mainly considered a concern in PVC pipe that was manufactured before 1977 The issues with PVC in home use is leaks, it will degrade when exposed to UV light such as sunlight and also high temperature. Its pressure rating is to be de-rated at high temperatures. Because of this, PVC is not approved for use in houses for potable water.

Exactly, if you read my post carefully, you will notice that I stated that the safety concerns were not the reason pvc is not approved for residential use, I just did not bother to iterate the reasons out: it is very easy to copy and paste them if one really needs to do so...I simply posted the current most popular myths. However Copper is used for potable water, and perhaps it has no relevance to aquaria, however it is relevant to what 'potable water certs' really accomplish, (foster myths) and that potable water certs have nothing to do with what is and what is not safe or useable with aquaria. In fact, salt water of the variety we are recreating is not potable water in the first place, and has more stuff in it than you can think of off the top of your head... ;)

[wolfblue]

For threads, I've used RectorSeal and it works good. But I like Whitlam Blue Magic better (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23140). You will too...

[Lavoisier]

For threads, I've used RectorSeal and it works good. But I like Whitlam Blue Magic better (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23140). You will too...

How long have you been using this product?

[wolfblue]

I was fighting the tef tape war until 4 years ago when somebody pointed me to Blue Magic. I knew tape is not called for on plastic but what are you going to do with leaks if you have sensitive animals. Blue Magic is good for food service and works with the first try every time. I'm in charge of 12 aquariums, smallest is 1k gallons. Next is 8k, the average size is 40k gallons. I have endangered/threatened animals and two full time vets so I cant do anything fishy. (fishy):wave:

[mrkalel]

I use anything BUT tape with PVC. It often fails to help with sealing on the junk threads provided with PVC these days. I use Rectorseal 5 and THAT works nicely and reliably.

http://www.rectorseal.com/product-data/rectorseal-no-5/dsno5.htm

It should be noted that tape and teflon paste are not sealents, whereas RectorSeal is a sealant.

When I assembled my tank with tape I had about 4 aggravating drips with tape. I had to laboriously remove lots of piping. I reassembled it exactly the same way with Rectorseal and had zero leaks.

http://www.hardwareworld.com/files/pi/lR/M/10KB.jpg


Just used this baby for a Saltwater mixing station project that has a significant amount of threaded PVC fittings...and I LOVE it vs teflon. Faster to apply and a quick wipe of the excess is all that's needed.

I also have unscrewed some fittings that were dry for days and no issues...wiped it clean..and reapplied more...perfect.

[Miz40B]

286064

[Lavoisier]

Thank you, John. I've am using Rectorseal 2 but will to take a look at Blue Magic next time I purchase.

I was fighting the tef tape war until 4 years ago when somebody pointed me to Blue Magic. I knew tape is not called for on plastic but what are you going to do with leaks if you have sensitive animals. Blue Magic is good for food service and works with the first try every time. I'm in charge of 12 aquariums, smallest is 1k gallons. Next is 8k, the average size is 40k gallons. I have endangered/threatened animals and two full time vets so I cant do anything fishy. (fishy):wave: