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OCREEFLOVER
05/09/2012, 11:13 PM
I'm doing so reasearch on keeping bubble tip anemones in captivity. According to the book Clownfishes published in 1998. On average 1 out of 18 anemones had been in captivity for three years and only 1 in 36 for 5 years. What have been your results and opinions on keeping this species long term healthy in captivity?

Thanks

Ron Reefman
05/10/2012, 12:27 AM
I have 4. I bought one at an auction about 7 months ago. The other 3 are clones of 1 that I got about 3 years ago. When I got the first one the seller told me that his never got too big before they split. In my tank they have followed in that tradition. They get to be 4"-6" in diameter, stay that size for awhile and then split.

OCREEFLOVER
05/10/2012, 07:35 AM
Thanks Ron for the information. I'm happy to hear theses beautify creatures are doing well long term. Do you have any anemonefish (clownfish) that host your anemone? And if so what species?

Thanks again

BonsaiNut
05/10/2012, 07:43 AM
I'm doing so reasearch on keeping bubble tip anemones in captivity. According to the book Clownfishes published in 1998. On average 1 out of 18 anemones had been in captivity for three years and only 1 in 36 for 5 years. What have been your results and opinions on keeping this species long term healthy in captivity?

If you are doing research, you would do well to look elsewhere for source material. The "study" you refer to (and I use that term loosely) is not based on scientific methods and is nothing more than an Internet questionnaire of a random sample of people's memories. I should know - I was part of it. Had I known how much people would come to refer to this flawed piece of work, I would have done everything to stop it.

Here's a different question. When does the "life" of a BTA begin, and when does it end? I know of several BTA propagators who have been selling clones for years. Are their clones considered the same individual? Or new individuals? If they have been keeping the parent animals for 10 years, and sold a clone to someone who had it for two years and then it died, how long had that individual been kept successfully in captivity?

OCREEFLOVER
05/10/2012, 08:30 AM
Very good point bonsainut. I'm glad to hear your view on this subject. What have been your experience with bta?

Thanks

sponger0
05/10/2012, 10:10 AM
I have had my Rainbow BTA since about last year in July and I just got a Green BTA last week.

z's_N_p's
05/10/2012, 11:04 AM
Mobert's BTA's are at least a few years old. check out his tank.

OCREEFLOVER
05/10/2012, 12:19 PM
Yes. I'm a huge fan of moberts tank. One of the best anemone tanks around.

garygb
05/10/2012, 03:56 PM
My original RBTA I got 6 years ago, but it has divided several times over the years. It's impossible to distinguish more recent clones from the original. It's all the same animal, so how do you measure the age?

Tmoriarty
05/10/2012, 04:43 PM
Moberts a girl... fyi, why does everyone not realize that, lol. I have had the same BTA for a year, it has split once 5 months ago.

OCREEFLOVER
05/10/2012, 05:31 PM
Thanks everybody for all the great info.

phender
05/10/2012, 06:04 PM
The results of Joyce's questionnaire were tabulated several years before her book was published if I remember right. Although there was not much good information at the time on anemone husbandry, people active in the marine aquarium community were having much greater success with BTAs (and Haddoni carpets) than with other host species. So, the numbers she gives are in the very least skewed towards the more difficult anemones.
Also realize that the information and technology to keep anemones alive (lighting 4-8 greater than what was the norm) had only been around for about 5 years in 1995 or so, when she did her questionnaire. So at that time, there wasn't really much of a way you could have had an anemone for much more than 3 years.

So, back to your original question. I had a BTA that I bought in 1988 that I sold in 2000. I don't know if it is still alive but I had it for 12 years. I have had several (I'm guessing 5 or 6) that I have had over 6 years before selling/trading them. My current BTA, I have had for 5 years. Pretty much if it lasts the first couple weeks (it was healthy when I bought it), I haven't had one die in my care. I don't think that is unusual in this day and age for someone who has a little experience.
Now, how many BTAs die on the way before they get to an experienced keepers tank is another question.

BonsaiNut
05/10/2012, 07:13 PM
The results of Joyce's questionnaire were tabulated several years before her book was published if I remember right. Although there was not much good information at the time on anemone husbandry, people active in the marine aquarium community were having much greater success with BTAs (and Haddoni carpets) than with other host species. So, the numbers she gives are in the very least skewed towards the more difficult anemones.
Also realize that the information and technology to keep anemones alive (lighting 4-8 greater than what was the norm) had only been around for about 5 years in 1995 or so, when she did her questionnaire. So at that time, there wasn't really much of a way you could have had an anemone for much more than 3 years.

Phil, you are correct that the study started out as something small which eventually morphed into a piece that was presented, and published broadly. It started as something almost as casual as this thread - "hey I am curious about people's experiences with anemones". At no time was there an attempt to create an actual scientific protocol - and the study makes every possible research mistake you can make. It is junk. The only thing worse than NO research is BAD research. This survey makes mistakes that a student in Marketing Research 101 would get an "F" for making...

For example - it is a survey of people's memories, so it is strictly qualitative research. At no time can you report quantitative results from qualitative research. It is like asking someone "are summers now warmer than you remember them being when you were a child? How much warmer?" and reporting the results as proof of global warming. "According to a survey of 1000 people, summers are now 4.7 degrees warmer than they were 20 years ago..."

There was no attempt to make it a representative sample of marine hobbyists. Maybe people who read about her survey were all beginners? Maybe they were all experts? Who knows? Since we don't know, we can't reach any conclusion about the results as they project out to the entire population of marine hobbyists.

As you yourself pointed out, there was no attempt to isolate species. Anemones are anemones, at least according to this study. We know this is not the case - some anemones are notoriously difficult to keep, others are asexually reproducing in hobbyist aquariums quite frequently. One person could be reporting on their experience with one species, while another person could be reporting on something else. Worse, many people didn't know for sure which species they had - or even if their memories were 100% accurate.

I could go on, but there is no point. It certainly isn't going to remove ink from a printed page. Wilkerson quoted liberally from the "results" of this study to advance her own personal agenda. I wince when I think that I participated in this "stream of consciousness" turned science.

Ironically, when I was taking a class in Marketing Research at Northwestern University as part of my graduate degree, I actually surveyed the entire student body on attitudes related to marine aquariums :) You can bet that I was able to prove my statistical significance :)

OCREEFLOVER
05/10/2012, 08:47 PM
Where can one locate the most accurate published information on Anemones? Thanks again you guys for all the great info regarding this book.

elFloyd
05/10/2012, 08:59 PM
Not saying anything new... But... I've had my BTA for two years and it has split four times.

BonsaiNut
05/11/2012, 07:19 AM
Where can one locate the most accurate published information on Anemones? Thanks again you guys for all the great info regarding this book.

??? Like what, specifically? There isn't a lot out there - most of it is scientific papers. Almost all aquarium books that refer to anemones are old and are based on even older source material. The last functional biology reference book on anemones was published in 1991.

boombox3
05/11/2012, 08:47 AM
My RBTA has lived longer than 3 years in my tank and is about the size of a plate. The most massive ive seen it was right before it split a year ago. Has only split once in its lifetime. I also have to mention that after a year of having it. It got so large i decided to stop feeding it completely. It still managed to split last year.

phender
05/11/2012, 10:40 AM
Greg,

Was Joyce's questionnaire the same as the "Breeders Registry" survey. I remember filling out several forms for that.(they wanted one form for each anemone) :(

To the OP,

Perhaps BonsaiNut has forgotten, or he is just being modest, but he wrote a very detailed FAQ on most aspects of anemone husbandry in the FAQ for this forum, with the help of MarinaP. I think it was written before the advent of T5 lighting and certainly before LED so you have to read between the line a little as far a lighting, but it is as good an article as I have seen. Here is the link: http://www.wifeofnerd.com/images/AnemoneFAQ.pdf

steelhead77
05/11/2012, 10:41 AM
I got my first RBTA in January 2009. Right now I have 9 in my tank and I've sold about 12 more, all from that one original. All of mine range in size from about 3 inches to the size of a dinner plate.

These are incredibly simple creatures. Some people seem to think they are difficult to care for. IME, this is the farthest thing from the truth. They can handle, and even thrive, in sub-optimal water conditions. I rarely, if ever, actively feed mine. They seem to get everything they need from light and broadcast feeding of the whole tank.

OCREEFLOVER
05/11/2012, 11:18 AM
Thank you for the link to bonsainut page. Very informative.

larac
05/11/2012, 12:57 PM
These are incredibly simple creatures. Some people seem to think they are difficult to care for. IME, this is the farthest thing from the truth. They can handle, and even thrive, in sub-optimal water conditions. I rarely, if ever, actively feed mine. They seem to get everything they need from light and broadcast feeding of the whole tank.

Completely agree... not exactly canaries in a mine are they?

I've had mine for about six years and it has split many times. They seem to split anywhere from 6 to 10 inches. It splits so often it's annoying- I've become very good at removing BTA's from rock.:rolleyes:

Anemone
05/11/2012, 07:29 PM
Well, I've had my female RBTA since 1995. It's split more than 200 times in my tank (and many, many more times in others' tanks) and spawned twice. I have a male RBTA that I got from Sanjay a few years ago (maybe 2008). It's only split once, and both clones remain small (I believe there is some allelopathy occurring here from the female clones, even though they are ostensibly the same species). I only have about 20 clones in my tank currently, as I had a partial tank meltdown last fall where I lost about a dozen clones. :(

Oh yeah, and yes, I filled out Joyce's questionnaire as well.

Kevin