Clean tank Vs Dirty tank

[Jarred1]

That has been a great debate for a long long time regarding zoas, I have noticed a little something over the course of a year or so with a small colony of zoas. I currently have 3 tanks. One is meant for SPS corals which is a 40 breeder, another is currently holding most of my SPS corals but isn't as clean as the 40 breeder, this tank is a 20 high. My last tank is a 20 long, that doesn't grow coralline or SPS well but LPS and soft corals do well.

Here is a list of equipment for each tank:

40 Breeder (2 months or so old)

150w FNI Metal Halide
2x 12w Ecoxotic Panorama LED strips (Royal Blue)
SWC Mini HOT Skimmmer (rated for 90g tank)
Drs Foster and Smith HOB Surface Skimming power filter
Vortech MP10 (Reef Crest Mode 100%)
Koralia 2 (600 GPH)
Koralia Nano (425 GPH)
JBJ ATO
75w Hydor Heater


20 High (year old)

150w FNI Metal Halide
Koralia 1 ( GPH)
Drs Foster and Smith Surface Skimmer
50w Hydor Heater


20 Long (3 years old)

Koralia 1 ( GPH)
Emperor 400 HOB Filter
4x 24w FNI T5HO (3 Blue Plus, 1 UVL Indigo Sun)
50w Tetra Heater


The 20 long has a black clown and a coral beauty. The 20 high has a starry blenny. The 40 breeder has no fish currently, had a yellow tang, flame angel, 2 randall's anthias and a yasha goby. They all have very similar clean-up crews.

The maintenance on the tanks are similar in regards to feedings but a very different in regards to tank cleanliness. I usually put a pinch of freeze dried Cyclop-eeze in twice daily, a few times a week I will either feed frozen mysis or H2O coral food. The 20 high and the 40 breeder get weekly water changes of 10% of their volumes; the 20 long gets monthly water changes of 10% of its volume. The 20 high is dosed daily with 5ml of ESV B-Ionic cal and alk.

Test Results for each tank, all readings are from today (pH, NH3, NO2, NO3 tested with API/ Alk, Cal, Mag tested with Redsea Pro tests/ Salinity tested with refractometer/ PO4 tested with Hanna checker). I know these tests aren’t tests from when this coral was in the different tanks but I believe my levels are relatively stable and don’t change much.

40 Breeder

pH: 8.0
NH3: 0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
NO3: 0 ppm
Salinity: 33.5 PPT
Cal: 420 ppm
Alk: 8.4 dKH
Mag: 1400 ppm
Temp: 78
PO4: .06 ppm


20 High

pH: 8.1
NH3: 0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
NO3: 0 ppm
Salinity: 33 ppt
Cal: 430 ppm
Alk: 9.8 ppm
Mag: 1320 ppm
Temp: 78.9
PO4: 0 ppm (tank has bubble and hair algae growing in it)


20 Long

pH: 7.8
NH3: 0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm
NO3: 0 ppm
Salinity: 31 ppt
Cal: 480 ppm
Alk: 8 dKH
Mag: 1260 ppm
Temp: 78
PO4: 2.50 ppm


Now that you kind of see what my tanks are like we can move on to my real question. I am going to focus on one zoanthid in particular; it has a brownish oral disk with gold sparkles and a dark pink skirt. I purchased this frag about a year ago from a local reefer. I originally put the frag into the 20 high; it did well but didn't grow much. I kept getting knocked over buy my CUC and falling into the sand. I took it out of that tank and put it into the 20 long. It did great in there and grew very well. During the time in that tank I was fading away from the hobby and didn't do much in terms of maintenance on that tank. One day it closed up for a few days and when it did open it was all black with no gold sparkles. I left it alone for a few more days to see what it was doing and they continued to get worse. I took them out of that tank and put them back into the 20 high. For a few days they remained closed but they opened up again. They began to grow again and regain some of their color. During that time I gave my friend a 20 or so polyp frag in a trade about 2 weeks ago. I took the original colony out of the 20 high and put them into the 40 breeder about a month after it was set up. They have been in there for a little over a month now and the growth has been GREAT. They are growing like mad and I want to know what you all think the reason for this growth is. I am not sure why they are growing so well in a clean tank like the 40. They aren't getting nearly as much light in the 40 as they were getting in the 20 high. I will be taking the 20 high down and using that 150w halide over the 40 breeder, there will be 2 150w halides over it.

Pictures:
July 11, 2011 (20 high)
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF1175.jpg
January 9, 2012 (20 long)
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF2205.jpg

January 14, 2012 (20 long)
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF2315.jpg

February 15, 2012
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF2485.jpg

February 15, 2012
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF2503.jpg

March 3, 2012 (20 high, the beginning of the frag for my buddy. Colony was in this tank at the time, because the polyps turned black in the 20 long)
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF2761.jpg

March 23, 2012 (40 breeder; colony on the left side of the tank)
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF2998.jpg

May 14, 2012 (40 breeder)
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF3834.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF3851.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q304/jayrome06/Why/DSCF3852.jpg


Now that you got to see the growth I got, why do you guys think they did so well in the 40 breeder?

[650-IS350]

the pink and gold's palys regardless grow like weeds. Regardless and faster with more high light. Sorry didn't get to read through most of the thread but see from pics that your test subject was PNG's.

[Jarred1]

Can you explain why they grew so slow in the other two tanks?

[engineeronh2o]

It is like anything else...

Say you got 2 polyps, P&G may double every few months. So 2 becomes 4 and 4 becomes 8. You started with 6-7. They more than doubled in 6 months. Now you have 20 and you move them and 5 months later they have doubled again.

A colony of 20+ will always reproduce faster than a mini colony for 5-10, as long as the conditions are similar.

If you really wanted to compare.... Make mulitple frags of 5 polyps. Place each one in the different tanks and compare the growth. If 6 months later one has 10 and the other has 20 then you know which tank is the hot spot!

[A. Grandis]

...
I am not sure why they are growing so well in a clean tank like the 40. They aren't getting nearly as much light in the 40 as they were getting in the 20 high. I will be taking the 20 high down and using that 150w halide over the 40 breeder, there will be 2 150w halides over it.
...
Now that you got to see the growth I got, why do you guys think they did so well in the 40 breeder?

Different species have different requirements.
Different individual colonies also have their preferences.
There are many things that play with reproduction/growth of zoas.
Hard to tell for sure. So many variations in the long run...

In truth, and IMO, most of the zoas actually do better in " clean" water, meaning nutrient poor (especially phosphates, nitrates). Water chemistry needs to have the ionic balance. Stability is the key to keep cnidarians in close systems. I won't get tired of saying that. The combination of facts is what will determinate how comfortable they will be in the system. Most of the time zoas really love light and the adaptation to it is another key to the success. That could take a while for them to get used to...

Sorry, but I don't think you'll get a "magical" answer for the questions.:hmm5:

The 5th picture shows how nice your tank is!:thumbsup:
Tanks for the good thread!

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

I'm sorry Jarred1, if my last post sounded a bit rude.
It wasn't my intention at all.
I think I should apologize to you about the "magic answer" part.

Again, it's a good thread and everyone should contribute to it.
I hope to learn from others here...

:thumbsup:

Grandis.

[Jarred1]

Anyone else have any opinions?


Sent from my iPod using Tapatalk

[Jarred1]

Anyone else have any opinions?


Sent from my iPod using Tapatalk

[650-IS350]

The PNGs do go on drought growth... but as the acclimatize to the new surroundings... it grows like a freaking weed, will go on other Z's and P's and become very invasive in regards to growth rate.

I have them no in the bottom front right of my tank slightly shaded by corner frag rack and still grow like crazy, the ones that are getting more light and flow are larger, more pink on the skirts and gold on the disk.

Would have like to see same experiment with a polyp of each only on each tank and see what happens.

[engineeronh2o]

It looks like you had normal consistent growth and from start to now. I am confused on what you want us to tell you... If you started with 6 and a year later had 7 and then moved them and a month later had 20 then that may be abnormal. Zoas like low light and do better than most corals in dirty or clean water to a point.

[Jarred1]

It looks like you had normal consistent growth and from start to now. I am confused on what you want us to tell you... If you started with 6 and a year later had 7 and then moved them and a month later had 20 then that may be abnormal. Zoas like low light and do better than most corals in dirty or clean water to a point.

I am not looking for anything, just wanted to start a thread. I don't believe zoas like low light or high nutrients, in the wild they are normally found closer to the surface. Zoanthids are very adaptable creatures, just because they grow with high nutrients and low light doesn't mean they like it. I believe they do best in clean water with lots of light and flow.

[650-IS350]

They're all over the place, in tidal areas, in slightly deeper areas. Clean areas and heard of them in dirty areas of the beach as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoantharia
cool reading

[deacon hemp]

I will chime in to this thread and give my 2 cents (though i normally just lurk) Ive been nano reefing and collecting zoas on and off for 12 years and through all of my tanks they have always done best in dirty tanks. Dirty being that they are aged and semi built up in nutes and not super bad parameters. For instance my current tank i aged a whole 14 months before even adding a photosynthetic coral,i ran nps for 6 months in the dark to get the nute import export happening. I havent done a wc in 6 months now on this tank and just loaded it up with zoas and harder to keep yumas (i belive they like the same quality) and all is perfect!!! theres 10-15 nitrates,and i havent tested phosphates.

Im going to make up some salt water just cause im feeling guilty hahaha.

[engineeronh2o]

Well from guys I have talked to that collect zoas from Hawaii actually says most they collect are in shallow water but faced down growing in shadows and under things. I have bought many many frags and have learned that wild frags will melt if in too much light and I have almost a 100% success rate putting them in the shadows. Just my experience.

[650-IS350]

Which is why i always advocate when introducing any polyp be it Z's or P's always start at the bottom, and NOT directly under MHs or LED's just on the outside corners then slowly work your way with them under direct lighting then slowly move them up as to not shock them to your lighting scheme. But that's just me.

[Jarred1]

Well from guys I have talked to that collect zoas from Hawaii actually says most they collect are in shallow water but faced down growing in shadows and under things. I have bought many many frags and have learned that wild frags will melt if in too much light and I have almost a 100% success rate putting them in the shadows. Just my experience.

I completely agree with this, down here zoas are found in shallow waters, the more colorful zoas are usually shaded and harder to spot. We are all trying to base our lights off the suns intensity, but in the wild I believe they still receive more light than we think they do.

Which is why i always advocate when introducing any polyp be it Z's or P's always start at the bottom, and NOT directly under MHs or LED's just on the outside corners then slowly work your way with them under direct lighting then slowly move them up as to not shock them to your lighting scheme. But that's just me.

I place new zoas at the bottom of my tanks as well so they can get used to my tanks.

[A. Grandis]

Well from guys I have talked to that collect zoas from Hawaii actually says most they collect are in shallow water but faced down growing in shadows and under things. I have bought many many frags and have learned that wild frags will melt if in too much light and I have almost a 100% success rate putting them in the shadows. Just my experience.

Most of the time they are in very shallow tide pools and fully exposed to sunlight.
There are some found growing "under things", yes. Those are usually with long stalks looking for light.

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Which is why i always advocate when introducing any polyp be it Z's or P's always start at the bottom, and NOT directly under MHs or LED's just on the outside corners then slowly work your way with them under direct lighting then slowly move them up as to not shock them to your lighting scheme. But that's just me.

Well, that is the right way to adapt them to new artificial (or back to natural) light, but has nothing to do with where they were found. Most of the time you don't really know if they were in exposed sunlight or shadows, if you don't collect them.

Bottom line: many adaptation to light in the aquarium has do be done from bottom up.

Grandis.