What would be good response to LFS owner?

[Megatrev62]

Hello, was at the store last night and a discussion ensued about quarantine, size of tanks for certain fish....you get the idea. Well I touched a nerve when I mentioned Reef Central and all that is good here. Owner rolls eyes and said "Reef Central, don't believe everything you read there", and cotinued about the Net and all the BS there.. Anyway I think I got my point across, but dang it was frustrating without insulting him.

Any ideas what to say when the store gets its back up? Cheers

[mm949]

if you like shopping there, i wouldnt mention RC again....

[Megatrev62]

Probably right. lol. Do you own a store?

[ajcanale]

You could have replied: "That's funny! On RC they say 'LFS, don't believe everything you are told there'"

[IridescentLily]

I would say "on RC they have so many people (220,000) that have literally decades of experience, and I like to make decisions based on all of this available information."

[IridescentLily]

oops duplicate post

[f3honda4me]

I would want to know what specifically he thinks we are wrong about.

[Misled]

You must remember. The store wants to sell you something. They have to make money to stay in business. I'm not making a dime by posting what I know, and it doesn't matter to me whether you buy something or not.

[MrTuskfish]

Don' believe "everything" you hear any where. Most questions on RC will get many replies. Some are great, some ridiculous , and some make you think. Our hobby just has many areas that don't have definite answer; just options and experiences. . Get opinions and make decisions based on who says what.....and add some common sense. Sadly, the knowledgeable LFS is a thing of the past, in most cases.
IMO, and there are exceptions, the average LFS guy knows very little about our hobby, doesn't keep up with all the changes, bases his answers on what he has in stock, and wonders why so many people buy everything online.

[Khemul]

Don't argue with LFS owners. Don't even argue with LFS employees. And never, under any circumstances, argue with chain-store employees (it isn't good for your sanity).


They will all drop the experience card on you. Their information source has A LOT more experience. Whether it be corporate HQ, the owner of business or something else. They will bury any response you have under the concept that they have much more experience then you. And technically they'll be right. Which is the best type of right. Trumps actually being right all the time. All you have to come back is "well someone I don't even know online said...".

[sponger0]

Im sorry but experience doesnt always trump true knowledge. You can be experienced using the same techniques over and over....but those techniques dont mean they are the right way. Business or not.

Ive actually test LFS employees and saw them shrug their shoulders lol. I love that feeling.

If I was to respond the the OP, then I would say I guess I shouldnt believe everythign this store says. There is one store close to me that I wouldnt beleive what they say.....and if they had an agruement all I would point out the tanks full of ick, aiptasia and hair algae

[snorvich]

Don' believe "everything" you hear any where. Most questions on RC will get many replies. Some are great, some ridiculous , and some make you think. Our hobby just has many areas that don't have definite answer; just options and experiences. . Get opinions and make decisions based on who says what.....and add some common sense. Sadly, the knowledgeable LFS is a thing of the past, in most cases.
IMO, and there are exceptions, the average LFS guy knows very little about our hobby, doesn't keep up with all the changes, bases his answers on what he has in stock, and wonders why so many people buy everything online.

Exactly.

[snorvich]

You must remember. The store wants to sell you something. They have to make money to stay in business. I'm not making a dime by posting what I know, and it doesn't matter to me whether you buy something or not.

Likewise.

[mm949]

not all stores are looking to take you for a ride.....a good LFS should have your best interests in mind unlike online vendors or people selling things they dont want on forums

[sponger0]

a good LFS should have your best interests in mind

This=rare

[jasonrstewart79]

I think maintaining a good relationship with your LFS would be a good thing. They may have had a bad experience with an RC member and formed an opinion based on that... just be the example of what an RC member should be and watch them change their tune over time

[bobears03]

I actually don't even want the confrontation at all. I usually fail to understand why some of us feel like we need to respond to comments and answers from LFSs we all know may be incorrect. Is it really that important?

I guess I could see for the benefit of someone new and not exposed to places like RC we would want them to have credible information. Other than that, I would just leave it alone and let them have their own opinion about RC. I have enough trouble controlling my own fish tank let alone winning the hearts and minds of the LFS.

[sponger0]

I actually don't even want the confrontation at all. I usually fail to understand why some of us feel like we need to respond to comments and answers from LFSs we all know may be incorrect. Is it really that important?

I guess I could see for the benefit of someone new and not exposed to places like RC we would want them to have credible information. Other than that, I would just leave it alone and let them have their own opinion about RC. I have enough trouble controlling my own fish tank let alone winning the hearts and minds of the LFS.

When it comes to knowledge....I think that is the most important factor above all. Over water husbandry, technique or skill. Knowledge is going to influence all these

[Misled]

When it comes to knowledge....I think that is the most important factor above all. Over water husbandry, technique or skill. Knowledge is going to influence all these

That!!!!!

Think of it this way. You are the one shelling out your hard earned money on something. If you can't spend the time to research it "BEFORE" getting it, and you decide to rely on what someone anywhere is telling you, it is your mistake. I'm not saying to just rely on RC. There's a vast amount if info here on the web. Figure out what you want. Get all the info you can find and see if your system is even compatible with what you want. Then and only then, get it. I say get it, but most store will hold something for a few days. Let them hold it. If a fish, stop in a couple times. Have them feed it and watch it eat.

[jcw]

I just smile and nod.

[jasonrstewart79]

I actually don't even want the confrontation at all. I usually fail to understand why some of us feel like we need to respond to comments and answers from LFSs we all know may be incorrect. Is it really that important?

I guess I could see for the benefit of someone new and not exposed to places like RC we would want them to have credible information. Other than that, I would just leave it alone and let them have their own opinion about RC. I have enough trouble controlling my own fish tank let alone winning the hearts and minds of the LFS.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree that we place too much importance on other people's opinions of us.

[sponger0]

Yeah, I'd tend to agree that we place too much importance on other people's opinions of us.

I dont........

[jasonrstewart79]

i dont........

lol

[devildog999]

While I wouldn't trust most LFS, the one I frequent most I have the luxury of actually trusting.... at least the luxury of trusting the manager there. Doesn't mean he doesn't give other customers BS but I go there so often I have gotten to know them quite a bit and they don't really run the BS anymore.... though I still like backing up the opinions I get there with the opinions here. Better safe than sorry.

[NMC]

There's lots of opinions out there. Some good, some not so well thought out. Just take it all in, form your own, and don't try to sway people at all. With a LFS, if you disagree with something they are telling you, just thank them and disagree with your wallet. I think most folks mean well, and I can't imagine the pressure of trying to make a go of my own small business like they do....mostly a losing game it would seem with lots of desperation. I give props to anyone trying to win at that game, but I do understand that what's best for my little 28 gallons may not be their prime motivator.

[snorvich]

not all stores are looking to take you for a ride.....a good LFS should have your best interests in mind unlike online vendors or people selling things they dont want on forums

From another post, aren't you an LFS owner?

[bongarone]

Well I touched a nerve when I mentioned Reef Central and all that is good here. Owner rolls eyes and said "Reef Central, don't believe everything you read there"

Probably because of all the people here on RC that bash their LFS. The animosity goes both ways.

[reefanatik]

I asked a store owner about what he thought about reefoctopus skimmers and he said they weren't good, they were a waste of money. A few months later I looked under two of his tanks and guess what he had under his tank. That's right reefoctopus skimmer. Another time I asked about chaeto and he said he only sells it to customers who don't know any better and there are better things out there to use, and he will just give them what they want even though it doesn't help. I guess he didn't remember that he sold me some. Really changed my mind about him after that.

[reefanatik]

I agree with some of the earlier post. Do your research. There is so much information out there.

[bobears03]

I dont........

Don't you feel pretty in your own clothes?:lmao:

I'm curious as too why not. I know what I know and don't care what someone else thinks. I certainly listen to new info and apply it to what I know. Why do I have to have an adversarial conversation with every person that may have an agenda or may have stopped caring about the hobby? You know as well as I do that most LFSs stopped caring years ago. Not all, but for the sake of the argument it's true.

[jcmjoe]

My LFS suggested looking on R/C for info before buying certain fish!

[Cloudburst2000]

While I was visiting family in Columbus, I went to a LFS there and was looking at their fish. One of the workers came up to me to see if I wanted anything. I told him no fish at the moment because I currently had a fish already in quarantine. He seemed to be a good guy. He told me he was impressed that I was using quarantine and that it was the right way to go and I was correct to wait to buy more fish. The he whispered to me that I was the type of customer who store managers disliked because I was doing things right. Store managers want someone who doesn't quarantine fish because they are actually kinda hoping the fish is sick and that it will take your other fish with it. This way you have to buy MORE fish and spend more money at their store. I told him that may be but I no longer buy fish from my LFS due to poor livestock. I buy from LiveAquaria especially since they have a two week guarantee that my LFS does not have. He said that was probably a smart move LOL I would buy from my LFS if they had decent livestock but alas they do not.

[feh]

Funny. I was in an LFS yesterday and they brought up RC with a completely different view. "RC is a good place for info and I've never seen anyone steer anyone wrong for the most part." or something to that effect.

[Mrs. Gixxerman]

I guess it really depends on your LFS. Ours is the reason my husband and I signed up here. They suggested RC for research and information. If I recall correctly, a few of the employees there are members here.

[MeTaLMaN1375]

I have a Local LFS that I go to and one guy that I always deal with even if hes busy and I got 3 different people asking if I need help I always wait for him to finish. Im always there asking him a 1000 different questions and hes never really steered me wrong but sometimes he's not there and I end up going back home with my questions in hand and I mentioned that to him and he was the one that referred me to reef central I was skeptical about forums cause I have gotten bad info on forums about other things I ventured into but the owner of the LFS second his employees motion that reef central is a great place to get info if I dont feel like traveling to the LFS for questions and so far they were right and in the long run they saved me money because every time I went to the LFS just for questions I ended buying something. lol

[Wonton Soup]

This=rare

In reality, it really isn't that rare. You just have to quit pretending you know everything when you walk into a LFS and listen rather than try to educate the people working there.
You'll be amazed at how many people you find working within the LFSs that are just as enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and deserving of being a part of the hobby as you are. I don't work at a fish store but have many times in the past.
They aren't all good, sure, but it isn't something I'd call rare.

[Playa-1]

Some conversations are worth avoiding. I find that advice from local fish stores is about as useful as advice from the guy that works in the plumbing department at the big box home improvement store. IMO, It's best to do your own homework and keep the conversation with the home improvement and pet store personnel to a superficial level.

[Psirex]

My LFS suggested looking on R/C for info before buying certain fish!

+1 ditto for mine as well...

[Sk8r]

It IS possible to listen to someone who's wrong and not say a thing...especially when they are very wrong. It saves a lot of time.

[allsps40]

I would say "on RC they have so many people (220,000) that have literally decades of experience, and I like to make decisions based on all of this available information."

There you go right there.
When I was getting started in the hobby I asked the same questions to several different sources. All my LFS and here on RC. I find that RC gives you better info and more accurate as well. Many people that work at LFS dont even have reef tanks so how can they be qualified to answer your questions plus the LFS is there to make money so they will try to sell you something to "fix your problem". I have learned how to talk to at the LFS's and Reefer Talent as I like to call it, helps me weed out the bad info. Reef Central is the best place of collective marine aquarium info in the world. Most of my LFS employees are RC members and that is how I first found out about it

[Alex T.]

I stopped asking and listening at my LFS. If you're not buying something the owner ignores you like you don't exist. If you happen to want a fish, he perks up, smiles, laughs with you and has you paid and out the door in less than 3 minutes.

They wonder why we buy online? I actually get more of a personal touch from people I've never met. Sad but true.

One of the employees there is extremely knowledgable about fish but always defers to the boss because, well...he has to. He runs a successful aquarium maintenance company and takes the time to find out as much as he can about people's systems and their level of experience before selling someone a fish. Most of the time if I'm in the area I see if he's there and just shoot in to kill some time. Other than that, I just don't bother with any LFS anymore. Why put myself through the vagaries of having to be dumbed down and listen to newbies be sent on their way to kill hundreds of dollars in livestock. Most of the people on these forums do a lot of due diligence and have a good understanding of what they should and shouldn't do. The reason so many people look at our aquariums and think it's so difficult is because they know someone (or are one those people) that listened to an LFS owner/employee only to kill everything that swims and torn down their aquariums before they've even had a chance to mature.

What I've learned from this experience is to carry it into other interests or large purchases. Do a little research and you'll probably learn more than the person trying to sell you something.

[Faye]

Hello, was at the store last night and a discussion ensued about quarantine, size of tanks for certain fish....you get the idea. Well I touched a nerve when I mentioned Reef Central and all that is good here. Owner rolls eyes and said "Reef Central, don't believe everything you read there", and cotinued about the Net and all the BS there.. Anyway I think I got my point across, but dang it was frustrating without insulting him.

Any ideas what to say when the store gets its back up? Cheers

I have to agree with the owner to a degree. There is a lot of misinformation on these boards that I have noticed. I don't think people are purposly giving false info or anything like that, I think some people hear something on here, take it as gospel and repeat it. I found this line a little comical: "You must wait six months to add an anemone to your fish tank. I bought a bubble tip anemone when my tank was five months old and it died. A month later I bought another one and it survived, I've had it for almost two weeks now!"

Maybe it's not common for you guys, but the guy who works at my LFS is a good guy, and he knows his stuff.

[allsps40]

^^^ That is where reefer talent comes in. You can start to pick out the BS with experience. Honda forums are the best example of bad and wrong info. I love my Honda but the forums are like walking threw a mine field. Being a RC member for a while I know the people that know there stuff. Alex T is one of them for sure, Paul, Randy, 250G to name a few are people you know will be giving great info.

[Megatrev62]

Certainly have a new mind set after some of these responses. Appreciate them all.
Since he is the owner of the store and saltwater is very limited here I'm not going to bring up RC to him again. We have a good relationship for the most part, but I know he wants to sell ultimately, and who am I to tell him how to go about running his store.
.
He has a great employee (good fish buddy) who tells me alot about how the owner only wants to sell. Yes, it's that kind of store.( That basically says it all).

I do whisper Reef Central to some hobbyists in the store..lol. I'm quite surprised really of the many people who never heard of RC. I tell them RC is the only way to go.

[spieszak]

I've met more than a few people who don't like RC. Most of the reasons noted had little to do with the information being provided though, and more with the fact that this forum seems to be a little more "progressive" that others. LED lights? Seriously, let the people who have they money take that risk, stick with halides or T5... Carbon dosing? Really, theres nothing a you can't fix with GFO and proper husbandry... ATS? Whats that even mean... you are saying you want to actually try to grow algae, on a screen? While I know these things aren't all that "new" they are new to someone who set their tank up even just a few years ago... add to that that they have "proven old school" techniques, and then RC is just full of "experimental"
Beyond that, I've heard, the people that frequent that forum are snippy and opinionated. If you've been on the internet as long as I have, you might understand that a little. We've gone from long meaningful posts between people who are "online friends" explaining every detail, to a new "generation" of texters who have less desire for social interaction in forums (social is elsewhere) and more desire for immediate feedback. If you expect a long friendly post, with any type of "social manners", your best bet here is the lounge... and that is a total pitfall for any actual tank info...
There are also a few "ingrained" opinions here. You'll have a hard time arguing against not quarantining, or putting a tang in a 20 gallon tank. Those "ingrained" opinions can quickly turn someone off to the site. Given that plenty of people learned to cycle with fish, and that compatibility was the main stocking issue, it can be a quick knee jerk reaction to give up on the site when you ask what was a seemingly harmless question about your 20 gallon cycled with damsels with a new hippo tang that has ich.
So as to what to say, more than anything what I would say is that while RC rubs some the wrong way, I find it a valuable source of information. Different people have different ideas on the proper methods of maintaining a tank, and if RC doesn't quite fit your philosophy, I'd be interesting in hearing why, and possibly exploring a forum you feel does.
An LFS has no real responsibility to respond or be an active member of the "fish community", but understanding how and why their philosophy differs may help you to understand a different view on the same old subject, covered over and over and over again on RC. They may not have anything to back their thoughts, but if they do, you may learn something...
Sorry for the book.

[BigKahuna]

I don't know, I've had both good and bad advice from LFS's over the years but in the end it's a business. If I'm a guy running my fish store business it might be a little irksome to have customers tell me what I'm doing wrong even if they are trying to help. In the end it's his money and investment on the line. Some people take constructive criticism better than others, if the LFS owner is of the type that doesn't take well to it just drop it or move on to another store.