im thinking of tearing down my tank.. :-(

[ChefZilla]

But for a good reason.. as some of you know. I have been dealing with the dreaded red devil (cyano) for awhile. I have come to the conclusion that its my sand where the phosphates are at and they are leaching into my system. (hence why theres only cyano on the sand) My system is 10 months old and doing good besides the cyano. My thing is i messed up and tried using the old sand from my 40 gallon underneath my new sand. I "Rinsed" it in tank water thinking that would work... Well i know now that it didnt. Soo my thought is to use bins and frag tanks to hold everything, Trash cans to hold tank water and to mix fresh salt water. And just suck out that sand and start new using new sand thats rinsed. What are your thoughts on this?

[nicodim55]

I would stay away from the deep sandbed just my 2 cents. I have just enough to cover the front of the tank and for clams and nems to bury their feet. The back part is bare bottom and I have 2 koralias on the back blowing detritus from settling back there. My sand has been white since Aug 2011 and never had any cyano issue. Oh, and I rarely do any water change like Lawrence;) lol

[MichaelDavid]

Instead of tearing it down, why don't you siphon out the sand and slowly replace it with new or go bare bottom??

[Islandfever]

yes on the sand sucking out. no on the tank breaking down! if you were closer i would help you.

1.move all your livestock and corals in holding tubs with your DT water.
2.stash as much DT water as you can.
3. suck out as much sand as you can. rinse well.
4. put the sand back in the DT and let it cycle naturally.
5. put livestock back in DT.

its gonna be a Major Payne in the arse but YOU CAN DO IT !!!

[KWoo008]

Dude... That sounds like a PITA! Why don't you just let it run its course if you think it is leaching from your old sand? I've never ran GFO in my tank, but I'm guessing that could be an option. How often do you do water changes? I can't remember who first wrote this, but the saying goes... the solution to pollution is dilution

[jadette]

I agree with the recommendation of just slowly removing the sand from the tank.

Tank breakdown and a quick re-setup will be stressful to your livestock.

[marfuerte]

Agree with don't break it down. You can siphon it out little at a time and run GFO, changing it every couple weeks. I'd also skim wet till it goes away.

[ChefZilla]

yes on the sand sucking out. no on the tank breaking down! if you were closer i would help you.

1.move all your livestock and corals in holding tubs with your DT water.
2.stash as much DT water as you can.
3. suck out as much sand as you can. rinse well.
4. put the sand back in the DT and let it cycle naturally.
5. put livestock back in DT.

its gonna be a Major Payne in the arse but YOU CAN DO IT !!!
Thats what i wana do... Not actually tear down my tank and get rid of it... And nico, Im going to go that route. 1" sandbed or less... Just enough to hold the rock steady. :-)

[ChefZilla]

My other thing is there is already anaerobic areas in my sand (the sand is dark grey if it gets moved)

[Islandfever]

disturbing DSB will spike harmful levels, wont it? that's what i hear and read everywhere. I think it's super risky.

if you wanna go that way, i think you should closely monitor your levels and do water changes if necessary. this 3 day weekend seems like a good time as any.

[ChefZilla]

Thats why i wana do it the other way as i take out everything besides the sand... Will be like im doing a 35-40% water change BUT its a whole lotta work!

[Islandfever]

i think if you consider the amount of money you invested in the live stock. It will be worth it.

you're the club chef dude ! throw a bbq this weekend. "free food if you help me rescue my reef tank" where are those loyal club members? call them out hehehe

if you were in OC, I'd help you in a heartbeat.

[ChefZilla]

They just had pulled pork last weekend... I need something else that might entice them...LOL I know if i call for help they will.. We are a tight club.. And TY for the offer...:-) AND the best part is it allows me to catch my purple tang and find him a new home ;)

[gveng]

i think if you consider the amount of money you invested in the live stock. It will be worth it.

you're the club chef dude ! throw a bbq this weekend. "free food if you help me rescue my reef tank" where are those loyal club members? call them out hehehe

if you were in OC, I'd help you in a heartbeat.

no need to entice people with food. I'm here to help if you need it Brent.

just let me know when.

[Islandfever]

i hear those pulled pork are killer. you gotta hook me up with the recipe.

how about a crawfish boil or a southern chicken fry?

[pandimus]

i can eat some mudbugs....

[ChefZilla]

no need to entice people with food. I'm here to help if you need it Brent.

just let me know when.

See what i mean :-)
And as far as a boil... Its easy, 10 lbs crawfish, 6 heads garlic crushed, 2 lbs onions quartered, 1-3 cups cayenne pepper (or less if you dont like heat) handfull bay leaves, 1/2 cup black peppercorns, Corn shucked and halved, Red potatos halved, 4 gallons water, 2 lbs andouille and salt...lotsa salt...LOL Boil water, garlic,onion,spices for 20 minutes, Add the corn, potatos, sausage and boil another 10.. Than add the crawfish and bring back to a boil that turn off the heat and let it "steep" for another 20 minutes to get the flavors to meld... And BAM (yeah i had to go there, BAM) Serve with lotsa melted butter and good french bread and your set to go :-)

[KWoo008]

I'm kinda busy on Saturday at the moment but may be able to help on Sunday or Monday if you decide to pull the trigger

[Islandfever]

See what i mean :-)
And as far as a boil... Its easy, 10 lbs crawfish, 6 heads garlic crushed, 2 lbs onions quartered, 1-3 cups cayenne pepper (or less if you dont like heat) handfull bay leaves, 1/2 cup black peppercorns, Corn shucked and halved, Red potatos halved, 4 gallons water, 2 lbs andouille and salt...lotsa salt...LOL Boil water, garlic,onion,spices for 20 minutes, Add the corn, potatos, sausage and boil another 10.. Than add the crawfish and bring back to a boil that turn off the heat and let it "steep" for another 20 minutes to get the flavors to meld... And BAM (yeah i had to go there, BAM) Serve with lotsa melted butter and good french bread and your set to go :-)

and plenty of time to work on your tank! all riiiigghtt giggety giggety!

[ChefZilla]

Well it wont be this weekend... Might be next week... Thanks for the offer Kelly

[spollock818]

There is a thread in advanced topics where a Guy is deep vacuuming his DSB with no ill effects. He's monitoring parameters and I'm in agreement with him. I've got a 3 to 4 inch DSB myself.

I've moved my tank 3 times in Two years and each time wrecked the bed. Its worth while reading that thread

Now on your current situation. I would siphon out 20% weekly untilled bare bottom. And monitor Params. When sand or rock Leach Paramaribo it leached into your water column and not just on your sand bed. So I would disagree with your conclusion that its from your sand bed. If you need help. Ill help out with the removal of it too.

[WayneL333]

I've always ran a dsb, mainly for the biological filtration aspect.

If I were you, I would run GFO and be patient. Change it frequently at first, like every week, and you'll see your cyno problem literally disappear. Any drastic change is bad for a reef system. The GFO will eventually pull all your phosphates out of your water column.

[Sisterlimonpot]

I've always ran a dsb, mainly for the biological filtration aspect.

If I were you, I would run GFO and be patient. Change it frequently at first, like every week, and you'll see your cyno problem literally disappear. Any drastic change is bad for a reef system. The GFO will eventually pull all your phosphates out of your water column.
Out of all the other options suggested, this one I agree with. Taking drastic measures on a tank that is only 10 months old is going to disrupt the longevity of the ecosystem.

I'm a proponent of allowing the tank go through the cycles, I would equate it to our bodies immune system, the more it can fix on its own, the better it will be at handling other problems in the future.

Are you using some sort of mechanical filtration?

[THE JOEY]

I was having an issue with red slime, I did all of the normal things. Increased flow, siphon it out, etc. I finally used erythromycin. Worked well for me. It removed it.

[lemmy_k]

I was in the same boat. Give this post a read before you do actual work. That's what I am trying. I started last night.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1962886&highlight=dinos

I realize that Dinos aren't the problem, but killing cyano seems to be a side effect.

[Cymaster007]

have you considered some natural sand-sifters? Nassarius snails, diamond goby, sand sifting cucumber/star ?

[gcarroll]

You might also consider consulting Dr. Tim. I have heard of many people rid their tank of Cyano naturally using his products. He really does know his stuff as even public aquariums use his products. There are also a few onling coral sellers/farmers that have used his method and raved about their success. Here is his method from another forum.
Hello

Before starting with the Re-Fresh and Waste-Away stop using all the other products. Too much at one time is not good. Keep the skimmer running.

Dose Re-Fresh, wait 48 hours, dose Re-Fresh again, wait 48 hours dose Re-fresh a third and last time.

Wait another 48 hours and add 1/4 the dose of Waste-Away (not the full dose). Your tank make get cloudy - do not add more waste-away until the tank clears. Then add another 1/4 dose. If the tank is clear after 48 hours add 1/2 dose. Again don't add more until the tank clears and then add 3/4 dose. Wait at least 48 hours or until the tank clears (which ever is longest) and add the normal dose. At this point you should being see results. After this add the waste-away every 2 weeks or so.

Cheers,

DrTim

And the results!
3 dose of refrech and 5 dose of waste away and cyano gone .I plan to use waste away every to weeks to mantain the tank and refresh .

[gcarroll]

He is also local, in the valley, so getting the products from him might be pretty easy. I'm not sure your club has had him as a speaker but you might want to consider it!

[bullitr]

Thanks Greg

[All Delight]

Great info Greg. :thumbsup:

[gcarroll]

No problem guys. I feel that bacteria is such an important part of out tanks. This method works but does not kill beneficial bacteria like other products. Best of all it attacks the problem at the root of ot all. Not just curing the symptom.

[ChefZilla]

Tearing down my tank and starting "new" was the last option (im at my wits end). I have been running GFO for 6-7 months, Changing it out when i see that it starts to turn dark (between 3-5 weeks, 1 1/2 cups) Sooo since i have alot of GFO (brs and warner marine high capacity) I will try the changing it out once every week to see if that helps. And i will look into the method the Greg has supplied me with. My only question is, I thought Dr Tim was in santa barbara? Otherwise i woulda contacted him to see his setups and to be tutored by him LOL

[ChefZilla]

Curious,
Isnt the microbacter7 the same as dr tims waste away?

[gcarroll]

Curious,
Isnt the microbacter7 the same as dr tims waste away?not even close.

[ChefZilla]

not even close.
Ok cool... Im going to call around to see who carries it in my LFS If not ill order in online. So i will try that waste away and running GFO changed out more frequently... But still gotta catch that tang...LOL

[ChefZilla]

Greg,
I have another question. I have a 125 main, 60 gallon sump with a 12 gallon frag tank thats going to be plumbed into the system. My question is, How much do i need? They have 16 oz bottles on Drs F&S for $16 and treats 480 gallons. Im sure i will have to keep adding it as a maintenance to keep it away right? Soo IMO estimations i will need 2 bottles every 6-7 weeks?

[gcarroll]

Greg,
I have another question. I have a 125 main, 60 gallon sump with a 12 gallon frag tank thats going to be plumbed into the system. My question is, How much do i need? They have 16 oz bottles on Drs F&S for $16 and treats 480 gallons. Im sure i will have to keep adding it as a maintenance to keep it away right? Soo IMO estimations i will need 2 bottles every 6-7 weeks?Call them they will tell you exactly what you need. I did not continue the use of the product after it worked. I do however plan to order more and set it up on a doser just for maintaining the optimal bacterial levels. I wouldn't order it online as you can probably pick it up from him. https://store.drtimsaquatics.com/crm.asp?action=contactus

DrTim's Aquatics, LLC
530 Los Angeles Ave.
Suite 115-243
Moorpark, CA. 93021
US

Get Directions

Phone:
805.907.2690

[gcarroll]

I beleive you cannot run GFO while using this product.

[KWoo008]

So i will try that waste away and running GFO changed out more frequently...

I think Dr Tim said to stop using all other products... Not sure if that's applicable to GFO as well

Edit: Just saw Greg's response about not using GFO

[gveng]

I think Dr Tim said to stop using all other products... Not sure if that's applicable to GFO as well

Edit: Just saw Greg's response about not using GFO

Kelly, you're such a blonde :lolspin:

[BeanMachine]

not even close.

Ya I was trying to dose MB7 when I was trying to get rid of my cyano and it didn't do a thing.

I should have taken Greg's advice, but instead I took a shortcut and used Boyd's Red Slime Remover. I'm happy it worked with no ill effects but I should have been more cautious and tried the Dr. Tim approach.

[pandimus]

Kelly, you're such a blonde :lolspin:

you know nothing Gene.

She's asian.. Olive skin, eyes like emeralds.
between 24-26
her measurements are
36-26-36

[Islandfever]

:dance:36-26-36. How many gallons does that hold?:dance:

[ChefZilla]

Just got off the phone with Dr Tim (actually was Dr. Tim) and he told me that running gfo at a low setting and a half dose would be good. And he volunteered to be a speaker at one of our meetings woo hoo... Thanks Greg for the Info!

[bullitr]

I just start my teardown of my tank for a good reason too!
Getting ready for my larger sump
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab276/seancastor12/e524b05f.jpg

Brent can you ask dr Tim if they can speak to the next meeting
I will ask George again to have it in his house in the near future.

[gcarroll]

When this works, somebody better be bringing some pulled pork sliders to RAP!!!

[ChefZilla]

When this works, somebody better be bringing some pulled pork sliders to RAP!!!

I'm guessing that someone is me... LOL. But if i bring em you will want to join our club just for the food. ;-). I'm doing these right now for the weekend. Foods4less is having a good sale on em. $1.57 lb for ibp brand (better than farmer john imo) http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad342/ChefZilla77/IMAG0377.jpg mmmmmm

[gcarroll]

Hmmm, might have to make a trip to Food for less. What are you smoking them on?

[ChefZilla]

Cherry wood a buddy brought me from Oregon.. its pretty good. Rather use pecan or apple. But my local wood supplier has been out latley. :-(

[gcarroll]

no what smoker?

[ChefZilla]

A new braunfels smoker.. home depot special. I have everything to build my custom water smoker but just need to do it. (actually I need some more steel for the legs) It's going to be a 55 gallon drum with a 20"x24" offset firebox. 2 trays, a water tray underneath the main grills but has contact with the heat so creates steam, and a ' tower with 4 removable trays in it. :-)

[gcarroll]

Nice, I think I'm going pellet next time around. That way I gan just set it and forget it. Looking at the Yoder's YS-640 unless I get a smoking deal on something else. Are you injecting? What temp are you taking them up to?

[ChefZilla]

I dont inject unless im brining a ham or a turkey, As far as pulled pork or brisket. The magical temp is 200 internal. Have it stay at 200 internal temp for 1 hour allows for breakdown of collagen in the meat. Sometimes i hot smoke meats (300+) when i dont have time. Lets say on a hot smoke at 350 degrees on a 13 lb brisket. SHOULD only take 5-5.5 hours. Remember, Your meat only accepts smoke up to 3 hours. After that its kinda pointless to keep adding wood. You can wrap it and throw it in the oven (just like if you were wrapping it and keeping it on the smoker) I prefer low and SLLLOOOWWWWW That way it drives my neighbors nuts smelling it...LOL As i do low and slow, Its 235 degrees for 9-13 hours depending on the size and the weather. With low and slow you get better color (nice deep red rather than dark brown) and you dont have to wrap it, it wont burn. I can talk BBQ ALLLLL day as well as reef tanks...

[ChefZilla]

And that yoders looks nice... probably get a nice product outta it. But too much $$$ for me LOL

[gcarroll]

With low and slow you get better color (nice deep red rather than dark brown) and you dont have to wrap it, it wont burn. I can talk BBQ ALLLLL day as well as reef tanks...Same here. We just might have to have a pulled pork throwdown/fragswap in the future.
And that yoders looks nice... probably get a nice product outta it. But too much $$$ for me LOLWhich is why i'm just lookin! I'd have to sell an aweful lot of frags

[ChefZilla]

Same here. We just might have to have a pulled pork throwdown/fragswap in the future.
Which is why i'm just lookin! I'd have to sell an aweful lot of frags

Sweet, We'll have to do it. Get a few reefers/bbqers together. Have a frag swap/smoking competition... And the winner gets a free something or other... But when and where to hold it?? Gotta think about that one :-)
BTW, Just ordered 2 bottles of waste away from Drs foster.. Had a gift certificate for 20$... :-)

[KWoo008]

We just might have to have a pulled pork throwdown/fragswap in the future.


Do I sense a SCMAS/SFVR co-mingling event coming? :love2:

Maybe we can find a store somewhere in between to host?

[dodgerblew]

Sweet, We'll have to do it. Get a few reefers/bbqers together. Have a frag swap/smoking competition... And the winner gets a free something or other... But when and where to hold it?? Gotta think about that one :-)
BTW, Just ordered 2 bottles of waste away from Drs foster.. Had a gift certificate for 20$... :-)I want in on the smoker/bbq competition. I think I can hold my own :uzi:

[ChefZilla]

I want in on the smoker/bbq competition. I think I can hold my own :uzi:
Sweet.... I'm down. We can maybe even get some professional judges from the kcbs ... We got a few here in the los Angeles area. :-)