Rookie quarantine freak out mistake?

[hobbby3]

First a little background.

10 gallon quarantine with dry rock rubble that cycled with my tank for about the last 5 weeks.

HOB filter with filter floss

A fake rock and plant from petco as a hidey hole.

10 gallons of water taken from my display tank. already matched the LFS salinity of 1.024, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0.

Purchased 3 juvenile chromis and 2 juvenile clown each fish about 1.5 inches yesterday. Floated them in the quarantine in bags for 15 minutes then drip acclimated them with the quarantine water for about 30 minutes. fished them out with the net and slid them into quaranine.

All the fish were fine and ate PE Mysis this morning, a piece about the size of a pencil eraser. All of it was gone in less than a minute.

I got home this evening and one of the chromis was dead behind the filter housing. Just so happened it was the smallest chromis possibly was picked on i was thinking but did a water check and the ammonia was at 1 ppm. I freaked out and put all the fish into the display tank...right or wrong what do you guys think?? :headwally:

[bamf25]

Couple things....

1. What was the salinity of the LFS water? Whenever possible it is best to set the QT salinity at the same salinity of the LFS. That way dripping is really not needed. Then bring salinity up over a few days in the QT s opposed to dripping. Fish seem to tolerate drops in salinity better than raising. I lost a fish my first purchase for the salinity problem, even with dripping the differential was too much.

2. How long were the fish in the bags? Ammonia in transport is you biggest concern (thus again salinity match to the LFS). They need to be out of those LFS bags in 30 minutes or less. Seems like you did that.

3. Five 1.5 inh fish is alot for salt water. Gonna give you two problems. Some of those species can be aggresive and my have pestered one to death. Ammonia is gonna be very hard to control in 10 gallons even if the QT was fully cycled.

4. Are you monitoring ammonia in the QT and how are you dealing with it. If the QT is not cycled (and many people run uncycled QT's so not the problem). If it is not cycled you must be prepared to do many water changes, and also have a ammonia nutralizer like Prime on hand. Also the in tank ammonia discs are not perfect, but they help send up that first red flag.

Hope that helps.

[hobbby3]

Couple things....

1. What was the salinity of the LFS water? Whenever possible it is best to set the QT salinity at the same salinity of the LFS. That way dripping is really not needed. Then bring salinity up over a few days in the QT s opposed to dripping. Fish seem to tolerate drops in salinity better than raising. I lost a fish my first purchase for the salinity problem, even with dripping the differential was too much.

2. How long were the fish in the bags? Ammonia in transport is you biggest concern (thus again salinity match to the LFS). They need to be out of those LFS bags in 30 minutes or less. Seems like you did that.

3. Five 1.5 inh fish is alot for salt water. Gonna give you two problems. Some of those species can be aggresive and my have pestered one to death. Ammonia is gonna be very hard to control in 10 gallons even if the QT was fully cycled.

4. Are you monitoring ammonia in the QT and how are you dealing with it. If the QT is not cycled (and many people run uncycled QT's so not the problem). If it is not cycled you must be prepared to do many water changes, and also have a ammonia nutralizer like Prime on hand. Also the in tank ammonia discs are not perfect, but they help send up that first red flag.

Hope that helps.


1. LFS was at 1.024 I was at 1.023 1/2 ... they checked my hydromter at the store against their refracometer.

2. They were in the bag for 10 minutes on the drive home then 15 minutes floating. After that I drip acclimated them in a 5 gallon bucket.

3. was my biggest concern... too many fish and agression issues. I thought it wouldnt be a problem becuase they were all juvenile.

4. Didnt have prime or the ammonia discs I'll get some of that for next time. This is where my quarantine plan really failed and panic lead me to toss them into the display.

[NMC]

I have a 10 gallon QT. Hard to keep up with the water changes with one fish. Had to do water changes daily to keep the amonia down.

[sponger0]

Ummm with a 10 gallon you shouldnt put more than 1 fish in QT at a time IMO.

Secondly, tossing all those in your DT could put a shock on your biology and may have a ammonia outbreak. You are going to need to test your water.

Best advice, return some of those fish....keep most 2. Catch the ones your keeping and put into a QT. An watch the parameters on those fish and their health.

Chromis 9 times out of 10 you end up with 1.

[stingythingy45]

Wrong

Chromis kill each other anyways.

[Playa-1]

I would shorten the amount of time to get the fish into the QT. Maybe 5 minute bag float and 10 minute drip. The Sg and pH is preadjusted to the shipping water so you can accelerate the acclimation time.

It's also best to keep the amount of fish in the QT to a minimum. IMO, 1 fish at a time unless you're dealing with a mated pair. Take your time

[MaxxedMan]

I wouldn't return any, you are down to 4 small fish. In a tank with a good cycle started and lots of live rock, they tank can probably handle them, especially if you don't need to increase feedings. Now it is too much if you plan to keep them in a Quarantine Tank first.

I added my mated clowns and a chromis as my first fish in 60 gallons of water with 60 lbs of rock and saw no amonia spike (No QT). if you have the same or more, I wouldn't let your tanks ability to adjust to the new fish be a factor in returning them.

I did just get one chromis because of all the stories of them bulling each other to death over time.

[rogermccray]

I would say putting them in the DT is probably better than leaving them in a 10 gallon tank. That is not a lot of water for quite a few fish.

I would test your ammonia daily and keep a sufficient amount of mixed up salt water around.

[gweston]

I have two juvi melanurus wrasses in a 10g QT. They are doing fine, but I have to keep an eye on ammonia. Its a well established QT though. Running for multiple months. More fish than that, it might be a challenge.

Yeah Chromis can kill each other off. Some have luck. Some don't. I'd think a good way to QT them may be to get a 20Long, split it into three sections with eggcrate. QT them together, but in their own spaces. After they move to a DT, maybe there will be enough space and hiding spots for them to survive longer term. Still, they may off each other eventually.

[ItzJustinN]

i didnt wanna comment at first because i didnt want to be responsible for bad advice, but now that others have chimed in, heres my 2 cents:

i think that was too many fish for qt tank. i would take the rubble out. qt needs to be bare. put some activated carbon in your filter floss, inside your hob filter. water changes are essential. you can also invest in a chemical called seachem prime. it will nuetralize ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in between water changes, and even removes chloramines.

putting them in your dt was probably a bad move. not to be mean but you cant be 100% sure of the health your fish are in even if they are tank bred. if one of them had ich, your whole dt will soon be infected. i wouldve gone out and got a ten gallon (possibly 20g) from petsmart ($14) and made up a second qt tank. move the chromis to the second tank. do a 50% wc one your first tank with ammonia spike and dose the new water with prime. now they are in your dt so the best you can do is watch them carefully and keep testing your levels to make sure you dont have a spike. (that dt was properly cycled)


heres my qt regiment i currently follow (my qt is not cycled):

Day 1: Minimal Feeding - 50% wc 3-4 hours later (once they pooped) 10 gallon dose of prime in the new water to be added.

Day 2: 10 gallon dose of prime, prepare new water

Day 3: Minimal Feeding - 50% wc 3-4 hours later (once they pooped) 10 gallon dose of prime in the new water to be added.

Day 4: 10 gallon dose of prime, prepare new water

well you see the pattern....when i wc, i vacuum out the poop and other particles from the bottom of the tank. also change the filter floss and carbon.

prime only keeps ammonia locked up for 48 hours max so thats why i dose everyday. im new myself and dont want to take chances, but the two clownfish are doing great!.


use this for future reference and next time ask questions before you do something drastic! in an emergency, some salt mixes can be used right away, although recommended to wait 24 hours.

IO is one example of this.

[MrTuskfish]

LR rubble is fine to use as long as you don't use meds. Putting them in the DT is the worst thing you can do. Keeping the DT parasite-free should always be a priority, IMO. Lately, damsels have a very poor survival rate, I have no idea why. Its not ideal; but you should be able to get by in a 10 gal with these small fish, but will probably need lots of WCs. Keep an ammonia neutralizer, like Prime or Amquel handy; but never use them with copper meds. If the filter floss wasn't seeded with DT bacteria, its serving no real purpose. Uncycled mechanical filter media will trap stuff that should be siphoned out and it will add to the ammonia problem. If it will fit, I'd put the LR rubble in the HOB filter; good flow to aerobic bacteria helps them do their job of eating ammonia. You can rinse the rubble every couple of days in old QT water, it will get rid of ammonia producing debris. I don't like the idea of skimpy feedings in a QT--new, acclimating fish need to be fed. Siphon out uneaten food and other crud often. If you're sure your DT is parasite free, continue to use that water for QT WCs, just be sure temp is close. I sure agree with the posts that say slow down. I think you can get these fish through with lots of WCs and frequent siphoning of debris.

[MaxxedMan]

10 gallons of water (50% of 20g) every two days is 5 gallons a day for 4 weeks. That's a 160 gallon bucket of salt per fish purchase for your 34 gallon tank.

For a new tank, I took the Vegas approach to adding the first fish. I knew what six fish I wanted in my tank, and I knew I would add them 2 at a time every 4 weeks. Fully stocked in 2 months. Now like Vegas when I put $100 chip on black, I know there is a chance I'll win and a chance I'll lose.

If one of those fish had Ich, and I lost all 6 fish, I would have waited 2 months with the tank fallow and then just did it again.

Now once I had 6 healthy fish I wouldn't add a new fish and risk losing the fish I'm attached to with a new purchase, I'll always quarantine going forward.

The use of Quarantine is just a basic risk vs reward arguement.

On a new tank, for me personally, losing 6 $10 fish is an acceptable risk when compared with the reward of not maintaining 36 weeks (6 fish, 6 weeks) of a QT tank with the water changes and hassle of a 2nd tank with less filtration.

Losing 6 fish I've had for a year is not a risk that is worth the reward of skipping 6 weeks of QT on a single fish.

[ItzJustinN]

i dont understand your math. i use 5 gallons (closer to 4) every 2 days. in a month of qt, at max ill use 75 gallons worth of salt. i will still have more than half my 160gallon bucket and imo spending $20-$25 on salt to qt your fish is better than killing your tank with ich and staring at a bare tank for 2+ months.

[MaxxedMan]

i dont understand your math. i use 5 gallons (closer to 4) every 2 days. in a month of qt, at max ill use 75 gallons worth of salt. i will still have more than half my 160gallon bucket and imo spending $20-$25 to qt your fish is better than killing your tank with ich and staring at a bare tank for 2+ months.

I thought you were changing half of 20 gallons every 2 days, 10 gallons. Sorry I misunderstood.

I agree, that I'd rather spend $25 than kill my tank and start over. But that isn't acurrate. You are talking in absolutes, when you can only be sure that there is a risk, not a promise.

Speaking only to adding fish to a NEW TANK


When you QT
You are spending $25 on Salt
You are buying another tank, filters, ect.
You are investing time in cleaning, testing, and feeding that tank for at least a month (QT should be at least 6 weeks if you are going to bother with it)

VS

You MIGHT kill your fish. You aren't 100% going to get Ich, I didn't. Your QT provides no reward unless the fish are actually sick. So the reward of using a QT is only less risk.

(Combining our examples in what I hope to be a fair way)
We both bought 6 fish at $10, that cost is gone, we both spent it.
I put mine in the tank and have a risk that they will die.
You spend $25 on Salt, $15 on tank, probably some other money on other QT tank needed supplies. And you have less risk they might die (they still might, if they have ich, you can treat them easier, I would have to put them in a QT and... well maybe you cant' treat them that much easier)

We are risking 3 possible outcomes

If your fish all live, and all my fish die.
You have spent $60 on fish, about $50 on QT, and at least 4 week of your life
I have spent $120 on fish (I have to buy them again)
We spend the same amount of money, but I saved the hassle of the other tank

If both our fish live
You have spent $60 on fish, about $50 on QT, and at least 4 week of your life
I have spent $60 on fish
I spent half amount of money, and I saved the hassle of the other tank

If your fish die and mine live
You have spent $120 on fish, about $100 on QT, and at least 8 week of your life
I have spent $60 on fish
You have spent 4 times the amount of money, and have 8 weeks of QT hassle
There are some who will make the arguement that QT provides stress and can lead to fish death. So even if we both get sick fish, this could still be the outcome, I'll admit the least likely.

Given those possible outcomes
For me, the risk of not QT the first fish I put into a new tank is risk I'm willing to take.

[bu11itt]

We are risking 3 possible outcomes

If your fish all live, and all my fish die.
You have spent $60 on fish, about $50 on QT, and at least 4 week of your life
I have spent $120 on fish (I have to buy them again)
We spend the same amount of money, but I saved the hassle of the other tank

If both our fish live
You have spent $60 on fish, about $50 on QT, and at least 4 week of your life
I have spent $60 on fish
I spent half amount of money, and I saved the hassle of the other tank

If your fish die and mine live
You have spent $120 on fish, about $100 on QT, and at least 8 week of your life
I have spent $60 on fish
You have spent 4 times the amount of money, and have 8 weeks of QT hassle
There are some who will make the arguement that QT provides stress and can lead to fish death. So even if we both get sick fish, this could still be the outcome, I'll admit the least likely.

Given those possible outcomes
For me, the risk of not QT the first fish I put into a new tank is risk I'm willing to take.

MaxxedMan, while your scenarios defiantly have merit and the numbers justification to back them up, I can see where they are a bit oversimplified.

Dealing with the absolute of an either all, or nothing for success or failure (as judged by fish mortality rate) is only the tip of the QT vs. Non-QT debate.

Taking the 6 fish scenario you mentioned let’s look into the order of failure (or fish death). If both the Qt’er and the non-QT’er lose their first fish they are both out the same fish wise, in fact the non-QT’er is ahead because he did not have the QT costs. Moving further down the chain if it is the second fish that crashes the tank then the Qt’er is out 1 fish while the non-QT’er is out 2 fish. This obviously will continue until the 6th fish is the culprit of the crash then the QT’er is only out the 6th fist while the non-QT’er has lost all 6 (the QT’er also has the benefit of still having the 5 other fish to enjoy and only the waiting time of getting a new fish and QTing it before he is back up to 6 while the non-QT’er is several months out to get back to the total number of fish).

In my opinion the costs associated with $10 fish are really a wash in this whole debate; where it has merit is when you start talking about an average of $40 to even $80 a fish (which is not difficult at all when dealing with marine fish).

Now the scenario of the 6th fish being responsible for the crash greatly favors the QT’er as he will be out the $40-$80 for this fish, the non-QT’er can be out anywhere from $240-$480 in fish; this in my opinion makes the cost and “headache” of quarantining worthwhile.

I will admit that this is still only one additional layer into the onion as there are multiple permutation past this level. But to me it’s more about peace of mind and the joy of doing it right the first time (not to mention saving money and time looking at a fallow tank).

[MaxxedMan]

I agree 100% with everything you said.

The six fish I added, although not exactly added the same time, represent my inital stocking, and were done in 8 weeks (2 at Zero, 2 at Four, and 2 a Eight). To me, they represent my first fish purchase, and like I stated, on any additonal purchases, I'll QT because the risk becomes too great.

I bought cheap fish for my first fish to keep the monatary risk low if they died in my new setup. With more expensive fish, the risk grows greatly, and QT becomes more attractive very quickly. In the future I might buy more expensive fish once my tank is proven stable, but in the future I will also quarantine.

A novice tends to QT for too short a period of time, and does not have the knowledge to identify or treat most fish diease. A novice still has a lot of risk to their fish even in a QT. For a first timer aquarium owner with no knowledge of fish behavior or possible diease, a QT really just becomes a, "Well they didn't die, guess they are okay" step.

It's the peace of mind I was speaking to. I have peace of mind the way I stocked my tank, I'm not very risk adverse and my personality allows me that peace. It's different for other people. I wouldn't not consider failure to manage risk to match another persons adversion level doing it the wrong way.

For example I do not have a chiller installed. If my air conditioning in my house on a hot day, stops working when I am at work, my fish will have a great risk of death. I choose to live with this risk because I don't want the noise and expense of a chiller. I don't worry about this happening, and I wouldn't say I need a chiller in Boston where the hot days account for 2 months of the year. It's safe not to QT like it's safe to not use a chiller to back up your AC (both risky to a different degrees), but its really up to each person to decide if that risk is something great enough to affect their peace of mind and enjoyment of the hobby.

Saying it's wrong not to QT to me is like saying it's wrong not to use dead rock to start your tank. Using live rock can introduce pests that are harmful to your corals and your fish, that may be difficult or impossible to remove. Using live rock carries with it risk and reward. It's not wrong to use live rock if you are okay with the possible risks. It not wrong not to QT if you are okay with the possible risks.

When asked for advice, I tell people they SHOULD quarantine, because it reduces risk to a degree most people need. But I also realize it's a personal choice based on a given persons feeling about risk and if they choose not to, it may not be wrong for them. The origional poster was having a major loss of peace of mind and fish with them in the QT, and he regained some of that back by moving them to the display. If the chromis were becoming violent in a small place, what he did may have saved the lives of fish and reduced the risk to his livestock. He'll get plenty of "I told you so"s if the fish to turn out to have a parasite, but then again, his fish may live happier and healthier lives because of the move.

[sponger0]

A novice tends to QT for too short a period of time, and does not have the knowledge to identify or treat most fish diease. A novice still has a lot of risk to their fish even in a QT. For a first timer aquarium owner with no knowledge of fish behavior or possible diease, a QT really just becomes a, "Well they didn't die, guess they are okay" step.

For example I do not have a chiller installed. If my air conditioning in my house on a hot day, stops working when I am at work, my fish will have a great risk of death. I choose to live with this risk because I don't want the noise and expense of a chiller. I don't worry about this happening, and I wouldn't say I need a chiller in Boston where the hot days account for 2 months of the year. It's safe not to QT like it's safe to not use a chiller to back up your AC (both risky to a different degrees), but its really up to each person to decide if that risk is something great enough to affect their peace of mind and enjoyment of the hobby.


When asked for advice, I tell people they SHOULD quarantine, because it reduces risk to a degree most people need. But I also realize it's a personal choice based on a given persons feeling about risk and if they choose not to, it may not be wrong for them. The origional poster was having a major loss of peace of mind and fish with them in the QT, and he regained some of that back by moving them to the display. If the chromis were becoming violent in a small place, what he did may have saved the lives of fish and reduced the risk to his livestock. He'll get plenty of "I told you so"s if the fish to have a parasite, but then again, his fish may live happier and healthier lives because of the move.

First comment you made......even if you had a chiller and the power went out....you still run that risk. A chiller still needs electricity...so that kind of make that statement null and void

Second one there........It is a personal decision. Yes maybe he did save a fish's live in the short run but the OP has yes to see if any diseases have made them selves apparent. Most cases of ich I have gotten, it wasnt visible until 3-4 days after getting the fish home. But its a gamble. Even to an experienced aquarist....especially if they have tons of money invested in fish livestock and introduce a non-QT'd fish into their system. They could lose a large number of high dollar or prized fish.

[hobbby3]

Lots of great scenarios and debate going in this thread thank you to everyone for looking.

Here's my reality...

I've added the 4 fish to my 90 gallon display tank that has cycled for 5 weeks no sense taking them back out or buying a second quaraninte now I think the system can handle it. I'll be testing ammonia levels daily for the next week, and watching closely for any disease/parasite :facepalm:

I realize the mistake I've made with to many in quarantine and the likely hood it was killed by the other chromis and probably not ammonia. Again from here forward only one fish or a bonded pair in quarantine at a time. :facepalm:

Moving forward I'll only quarantine 1 fish at a time in the 10 gallon with PRIME on hand, but IMO i'd rather use cycled water and live rock rubble that can bleached, dried and re-cycled in my sump after each quarantine. I just dont feel comfortable using a quarantine with no bacteria to help me out.

:facepalm: feel like such a dumb noob! I get to the store all the lights are bright, fish are swimming around, my heart starts beating fast, like a kid in a giant candy store...ILL TAKE ONE OF EVERYTHING!!! :o

[sponger0]

I realize the mistake.......

Moving forward I'll only quarantine 1 fish at a time in the 10 gallon with PRIME on hand, but IMO i'd rather use cycled water and live rock rubble that can bleached, dried and re-cycled in my sump after each quarantine. I just dont feel comfortable using a quarantine with no bacteria to help me out.

:facepalm: feel like such a dumb noob! I get to the store all the lights are bright, fish are swimming around, my heart starts beating fast, like a kid in a giant candy store...ILL TAKE ONE OF EVERYTHING!!! :o

We have all made mistakes. Dont beat yourself up over it. I made the mistake of not quarantining in the beginning. Until I had to rip my reef apart...literally, to remove the fish. I spend hours....and I mean hours trying to catch the fish....from a Biocube 29. So it wasnt a big tank. And then putting the rock back together. Fun it was not. But I will never not quarantine a fish again....unless its a dragonette. I have had good luck with them not carrying diseases.

Get your quarantine cycled....since you wont be using it for now...or you hope you wont. Start ghost feeding it. Dont use rubble in there for a few reasons. One of the main reasons is if you have to treat the tank, specifcially copper, it will soak into the rock and leach back out and can throw testing for copper off.

I use some Fluval Max Bio Media to help give somewhere for bacteria to grow.

Also....when you go to the store...take a deep breath and learn how to identify a sick fish. Watch their behavior. Also try to learn which are more shy or more boisterous to also be able to tell if they are having stress issues or if its just the nature of the fish. First step to determine how not to bring home fish diseases is to identify the diseases while your in the store.

[sandwi54]

Putting them in the DT is the worst thing you can do. Keeping the DT parasite-free should always be a priority, IMO.

+1 to this. Many new hobbyists make this common mistake and end up leaving the hobby, simply because they cannot eradicate parasites/diseases from the DT. This definitely accounts for more than half of the turn-over rate in this hobby.

Many parasites are easy to kill in a QT, but very, very difficult in a DT. You have come to a great start with the use of QT, but you need to actually follow it through (otherwise why even set up a QT in the first place?). If the water quality is bad, do a series of large water changes and use prime to control, until the biological filter builds up to handle the load.

Of course, don't put 5 fish in a tiny 10g QT at a time. That's way too much load for it even if the bio filter is strong. Also, those chromis are extremely territorial and will likely terrorize other fish to death. I suggest you get rid of them.

[MaxxedMan]

A chiller still needs electricity...so that kind of make that statement null and void

Haha, good call. :) You are always keeping me on my toes.

Well "if you don't have a chiller and a back up generator" then

[sponger0]

Haha, good call. :) You are always keeping me on my toes.

Well "if you don't have a chiller and a back up generator" then

Sorry man.....no offense lol. Just was liek hold on a sec haha


And to the OP, if you can try to find a 14 gallon tank. It has the same footprint as a 10 gallon just a few more gallons. I would assume you have a 10 gallon due to space.

[bu11itt]

I agree 100% with everything you said.

The six fish I added, although not exactly added the same time, represent my inital stocking, and were done in 8 weeks (2 at Zero, 2 at Four, and 2 a Eight). To me, they represent my first fish purchase, and like I stated, on any additonal purchases, I'll QT because the risk becomes too great.

I bought cheap fish for my first fish to keep the monatary risk low if they died in my new setup. With more expensive fish, the risk grows greatly, and QT becomes more attractive very quickly. In the future I might buy more expensive fish once my tank is proven stable, but in the future I will also quarantine.

A novice tends to QT for too short a period of time, and does not have the knowledge to identify or treat most fish diease. A novice still has a lot of risk to their fish even in a QT. For a first timer aquarium owner with no knowledge of fish behavior or possible diease, a QT really just becomes a, "Well they didn't die, guess they are okay" step.

It's the peace of mind I was speaking to. I have peace of mind the way I stocked my tank, I'm not very risk adverse and my personality allows me that peace. It's different for other people. I wouldn't not consider failure to manage risk to match another persons adversion level doing it the wrong way.

For example I do not have a chiller installed. If my air conditioning in my house on a hot day, stops working when I am at work, my fish will have a great risk of death. I choose to live with this risk because I don't want the noise and expense of a chiller. I don't worry about this happening, and I wouldn't say I need a chiller in Boston where the hot days account for 2 months of the year. It's safe not to QT like it's safe to not use a chiller to back up your AC (both risky to a different degrees), but its really up to each person to decide if that risk is something great enough to affect their peace of mind and enjoyment of the hobby.

Saying it's wrong not to QT to me is like saying it's wrong not to use dead rock to start your tank. Using live rock can introduce pests that are harmful to your corals and your fish, that may be difficult or impossible to remove. Using live rock carries with it risk and reward. It's not wrong to use live rock if you are okay with the possible risks. It not wrong not to QT if you are okay with the possible risks.

When asked for advice, I tell people they SHOULD quarantine, because it reduces risk to a degree most people need. But I also realize it's a personal choice based on a given persons feeling about risk and if they choose not to, it may not be wrong for them. The origional poster was having a major loss of peace of mind and fish with them in the QT, and he regained some of that back by moving them to the display. If the chromis were becoming violent in a small place, what he did may have saved the lives of fish and reduced the risk to his livestock. He'll get plenty of "I told you so"s if the fish to turn out to have a parasite, but then again, his fish may live happier and healthier lives because of the move.

Maxx, that is exactly correct, it all deals with the amount of risk/reward ratio any one person is willing to accept. There is also the fact that any one situation can be “what-if’ed” to death.

Working in the petrochemical industry I’ve been involved in more than a few hazard/risk assessments and the key to having a successful one is keeping the scenarios within the realm of possibility. Could a level indication give an erroneous reading and cause an vessel to overfill; yes, that is likely. Could an automatic valve fail closed and overpressure a system; yes, that is likely. Could a meteor come crashing down in the middle of my unit, yes, but that is astronomically (pun intended) unlikely so why even bother worrying about it.

People perform risk assessments everyday; they are just so small and involuntary that we don’t notice them. “Should I pull out now and try to shoot the gap for the oncoming car or wait 30 seconds for a clear lane?”

It all boils down to looking at a situation, determining the likely causing of failure or issues, determining which risks you can accept and mitigating against the one you can’t.

Being new to the hobby I am speaking in a purely academic sense as I am still determining where I will land on a lot of issues (however am currently planning on erring towards the conservative side and quarantining my fish).

Your comment of:

For a first timer aquarium owner with no knowledge of fish behavior or possible disease, a QT really just becomes a, "Well they didn't die, guess they are okay" step.

was very informative and eye-opening and made me realize another level of study and diligence will be required to successfully perform something as basic (it would seem) as quarantining a new purchase.

[MaxxedMan]

You SHOULD quarantine your fish, and you SHOULD NEVER call a open ended straight draw in heads up Texas Hold'em. Both are just hard things to stick to :)

First time I saw a fish with Ich (my college roommates), conversation went like this:

"Crap, my fish has Ich again"
"Which one"
"That one"
"Looks fine to me"
"No he's swimming funny"
"You mean back and forth"
"No, see how he turns on his side?"
"Yeah, like the others"
"No, that's different, see how he turns all the way over?"
"Not Really"
"Look, do you see the spots"
"Most of them have spots"
"Those are supposed to have spots, see THOSE spots"
"That's just sand"
"No it's Ich"
"Whatever D00D, looks fine to me"

[rogermccray]

You SHOULD quarantine your fish, and you SHOULD NEVER call a open ended straight draw in heads up Texas Hold'em. Both are just hard things to stick to :)

First time I saw a fish with Ich (my college roommates), conversation went like this:

"Crap, my fish has Ich again"
"Which one"
"That one"
"Looks fine to me"
"No he's swimming funny"
"You mean back and forth"
"No, see how he turns on his side?"
"Yeah, like the others"
"No, that's different, see how he turns all the way over?"
"Not Really"
"Look, do you see the spots"
"Most of them have spots"
"Those are supposed to have spots, see THOSE spots"
"That's just sand"
"No it's Ich"
"Whatever D00D, looks fine to me"

Made me chuckle

You forgot the last line "...looks fine to me, pass me a beer"

[hobbby3]

Made me chuckle

You forgot the last line "...looks fine to me, pass me a beer"

College students could never afford this hobby :)

Wanted to update you guys...

All the fish are doing fine ate breakfast and dinner. No spots or swimming funny as of yet.

Ammonia levels are 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates, 0 and best of all no fighting. Each chromis has their own hidey hole in the rocks and the two clowns just swim all around seeming not to have a care in the world.