RBTA farming advice

[oceanarium]

Hi,

I have been playing around with some RBTA farming. I read quite a few references suggesting some pretty impressive cut rates of 4 weeks and even less!

I seem to be a little slow :lolspin: I am only cutting about every twelve weeks.

My nem system consists of 5 100g 4 x 4ft grow tanks / with surge buckets and a 100g sump full of LR. I dose a little NO/PO-X to keep PO4 <0.1ppm and dose CaNO3 to keep NO3 >2ppm. I feed each nem daily 2ml of blended prawn/fish mix via pipet. I also keep quite a few clowns with them and the clowns are fed twice daily so the nems always get a little random extra.

Lighting via LED the lights are good they grow corals at excellent rates. I don't have enough nems to fill the system as yet (because they grow so slow) so one tank is full of clams and two are growing corals at good rates. The nems look great full of color though they do bleach out a lot of color each cut and can take a month or so to start looking healthy again.

I was pondering on starting a second daily feed, though some references suggest only feeding weekly.

I thought I could through this out for some discussion on what might be a better regime for good growth.

[dahenley]

someone posted about cutting after 4 weeks because they are healed and can be, although they dont grow back to the original size in that 4 weeks.

from my reading, you have 3 tanks with anemoneis in them?
if so, you might pop a halide or t-5's on one tank. that way you can see if there is any difference.
it sounds like they are doing fine, but its always worth a try just to see. haha

good luck.

[smsreefer]

Well ,it goes way deeper than these few suggestions, so I first will say to find some better articles on RBTA propagation.

The clowns will slow down the healing by aggravating the nems.

Make sure ALL nems in each tank are from the Same clone, or they will not develop as quickly due to allelopathy.

Only feed the nems that are healed.
If you are not feeding too much, water changes will take care of your water quality alone.

Like I previously stated,this is just some highlights of some issues that need to be corrected for good growth and health IME.

[oceanarium]

Thanks for the comments Dahenley, BTW love your set up. I have some T5 fittings I could swap in a few for a while I might just try adding 2 tubes either side to the existing lights to avoid to much shock.

SMS reefer have read a few articles and had picked up on the allelopathy side of things. I mixed a few types in one tank with a few mixed just to try select a few stronger genetics. The second tank has only the linage of the best one we have. I don't observe any obvious signs of allelopathy in the mixed tank though.

Had not read about clowns irritating nems will look into that further.

I do weekly 10% water changes, all we can manage with the volumes we have on the farm. We have constraints on available FW I need to cart NSW weekly. Our water tests quite well I only tweak the parrams to get more growth adding 5-10ml NO/PO-x PO4 is usually 0.05 and NO3 is usually at 0 I add NO3 to raise to 2ppm for stronger cols and growth.

[reefling]

Pics please! Sounds cool

[oceanarium]

I have been watching the clowns, certainly noticed they steal a fair bit of food from the nems so will try removing them.

Pics please! Sounds cool There is not a lot to see anemone wise at the moment Reefling. Early days so i only have about 6 of each type.

The system was set up to quarantine new specimens before they enter our coral farm. Now the farms fully stocked I have far less need for Q space so have started to convert the Q to nems.

http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/RC/IMGP3157.jpg
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/RC/IMGP3159.jpg

Here is some of the nems 1st is candy apple though still rather bleached after cutting. is this normal? 2nd a rose and third green with purple tips.
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/RC/IMGP3161.jpg
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/RC/IMGP3162.jpg
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/RC/IMGP3160.jpg

[dahenley]

sweet setup and great looking anemones

[chadfarmer]

what size are those tanks?

[reefling]

Nice setup. Tanks 48x36x12?

[oceanarium]

48x48 water is about 10-12 deep

[dahenley]

did you build them or buy them? (if you bought them, what are they commonly used for?)
thanks!

[andrewey]

Great looking setup- I agree with removing the clowns to aid in the heal time.

[oceanarium]

They are fiberglass fish ponds, I have had them for a very long time. Originally purchased them like 10 years back for wild collecting in remote locations, they stack inside each other so easy to transport. Since then they have been used and reused on various projects so very durable.

[MandarinFan]

Wow, quite the setup you have! Beautiful stuff, good luck on your continued fragging adventures

[KindCorals]

Thanks an amazing setup! I used to frag my rbta's a few years back and ended up with a dozen in no time. Some of them split on their own and if they didnt, I gave them a little help! I rarely used to feed mine but I had 2 x 250W 20K bulbs over a 60G/227L tank and they grew really fast. I havent seen very many rbta's in Australia at all, mostly the greenish/brown ones so I think you've got a great setup with the potential to get a lot more of these into the hobby.

[KindCorals]

Hows the farming going? Have you removed the clowns yet? I do remember that after mine split and the clowns would continue to live in them, the anemones would retract and look distressed. Luckily after the original one had split a few times, it wasnt a big deal as I only had a pair of clowns in an anemone tank.

Any idea where I could find some tubs, preferably a bit smaller, similar to yours?

[oceanarium]

Hows the farming going? Have you removed the clowns yet? I do remember that after mine split and the clowns would continue to live in them, the anemones would retract and look distressed. Luckily after the original one had split a few times, it wasnt a big deal as I only had a pair of clowns in an anemone tank.

Any idea where I could find some tubs, preferably a bit smaller, similar to yours?

Try a pond shop for that style of tank.

Not a lot changes in a hurry when it comes to BTA farming, I cut the greens again, the reds are not ready still. Funny how the cheap ones grow faster...

Its not a get rich quick scheme, if you are to fill a tank up with a single genetic clone then it takes a year to get 16 at my best cut rate and perfect mortality's. so really looking at 2 years plus to some sales starting.

I did pick up two sweet as reverse candy apple BTA's.

Most the clowns have been sold already and I wont be replacing them, will try fallow from clowns for a while and see what the difference is.

[KindCorals]

Thanks, I will try a pond shop. And ya I agree with the fact that it's a slow process building up stock for a farm of btas. It looks like your system is all connected, probably separated by a massive carbon filter, maybe ozone, but do you just have one clone type living in each tub? What kind of LEDs do you have? Im looking into getting some but confused as to what I need for btas/carpets in a shallow-ish tank. Are the candy apples new or the one pictured above? Where did those come from?

[oceanarium]

The reverse candy apples are from a wild collector. I am separating of my best color morphs to culture mono genetic strains. Though at this stage all the rest are lumped together and getting along fine.

Filtration is simple skimmer, carbon dosing, activated carbon filter changed monthly in the sump. With sump full of LR.

Lights are manufactured to my specs with 8 types of emitters to include a fuller spectrum than most LED's offer.

I find water movement the biggest issue with BTA's. Sucking them up a pump would be a problem. Its working OK so far with lower numbers but latter I think I will need a wave box or two in each tank.

[BayouCorals]

Thank you for sharing your tanks and experience with farming BTAs. I would say that around 12 weeks between cuttings in a mixed reef with weekly feeding under 400 watt metal halides has been my experience. It would seem to me if you cut them every four weeks then they would not have time to grow new tentacles. I would be very interested to hear some one with actual experience cutting BTAs more frequently.

[KindCorals]

Looks like you've got some nice btas to choose from for your broodstock.

Im glad all the different btas are getting along. Some people have said they have problems mixing them but maybe they didnt have as much activated carbon to clean the water.

Ive been reading a lot on LEDs lately, trying to figure out which ones to buy. I was looking at the AI SOL then Maxspect just released the Razor thats a bit more affordable but I think I will still be missing colors. Would you mind telling me a bit more about your lights and are they from here or the states?

[oceanarium]

Im glad all the different btas are getting along. Some people have said they have problems mixing them but maybe they didnt have as much activated carbon to clean the water.

I use 2ltrs Brightwell carbon and change out every month. I have been reading quite a lot about the allelopathy issue. I read some threads Anthony Calfo refers to about keeping different species separate. Some others have gone on to interpret this as color morphs within species? Not sure if there has been some confusion created here or if there is anything to the allelopathy within species?

Ive been reading a lot on LEDs lately, trying to figure out which ones to buy. I was looking at the AI SOL then Maxspect just released the Razor thats a bit more affordable but I think I will still be missing colors. Would you mind telling me a bit more about your lights and are they from here or the states?

In order to keep help keep costs down I purchase my lights direct from the manufacturer in China. I have something like 70 lights in current operation, plus keep swapping newer spectrum mixes in as we learn more about what works best with spectrum and how it affects certain corals. So savings are considerable compared to high end units.

The lights i currently favor over the nems and most my corals have Epistar emitters.
12 watts 410nm
12 watts 430nm
32 watts 450nm
16 watts 6500k
26 watts 10000k
4 watts 510nm
8 watts 660nm

This mix gives me good growth and totally crazy colors.

Thank you for sharing your tanks and experience with farming BTAs. I would say that around 12 weeks between cuttings in a mixed reef with weekly feeding under 400 watt metal halides has been my experience. It would seem to me if you cut them every four weeks then they would not have time to grow new tentacles. I would be very interested to hear some one with actual experience cutting BTAs more frequently.

Thanks for sharing your experience :D

[benjaminspades]

Is it bad to use light propagation for bubbletips?

[benjaminspades]

Let me clarify: I mean the shading technique. Would you recommend it? What would be the pros and cons of this technique vs the cutting technique? Does anyone even do the shading technique

[BayouCorals]

You could try "the shading technique" for a year with zero splits, With a knife it's guaranteed every time. If you are propagating BTAs then the goal is maximum growth rates. Shading corals generally does not give maximum growth rates. It might reduce your light bill. :)

[BayouCorals]

You could try "the shading technique" for a year with zero splits, With a knife it's guaranteed every time. If you are propagating BTAs then the goal is maximum growth rates. Shading corals generally does not give maximum growth rates. It might reduce your light bill. :)

[KindCorals]

I use 2ltrs Brightwell carbon and change out every month. I have been reading quite a lot about the allelopathy issue. I read some threads Anthony Calfo refers to about keeping different species separate. Some others have gone on to interpret this as color morphs within species? Not sure if there has been some confusion created here or if there is anything to the allelopathy within species?

Sounds like the right idea to use a lot of carbon! I seem to remember reading Calfo's posts saying the same thing but I'll have to look again and give it a re-read. Seems a bit hit or miss, some have done it, some havent but Im sure keeping species separate cant be a bad thing for these guys.


In order to keep help keep costs down I purchase my lights direct from the manufacturer in China. I have something like 70 lights in current operation, plus keep swapping newer spectrum mixes in as we learn more about what works best with spectrum and how it affects certain corals. So savings are considerable compared to high end units.

The lights i currently favor over the nems and most my corals have Epistar emitters.
12 watts 410nm
12 watts 430nm
32 watts 450nm
16 watts 6500k
26 watts 10000k
4 watts 510nm
8 watts 660nm

This mix gives me good growth and totally crazy colors.

Thats a ton of lights but definitely the way to go considering the costs of the high end fixtures! I've been reading through another thread about the 'chinese led lights' and there are so many pages to read. Seems like a lot, including you, have had good success with them Im just curious how these fixtures will hold up in the longer run say 2-5 years. Im definitely tempted given the lower costs and the customisation options that are available. Looks like you have about 3 blues for every 2 whites. I like the part about corals have crazy colors but do you find the light mix is good for viewing the tank in general?

Im not sure if you keep any carpet anemones but have you used these lights over either a haddoni or gigantea? I want to keep these in a shallow species tank as well but am not sure how these lights would do for the intense lighting demands of the gigantea.

[oceanarium]

You could try "the shading technique" for a year with zero splits, With a knife it's guaranteed every time. If you are propagating BTAs then the goal is maximum growth rates. Shading corals generally does not give maximum growth rates. It might reduce your light bill.
I have to agree 100%, you have to be able to reliable split them on demand. I have used other methods lacky bands work well but the nem must be on the right rock for this to work, more often than not its not. I have also used some constricting methods with fine ss wire hoops, hanging them from a rail at the waters surface. Works well and I believe the nem creates a more natural type split as it would when they naturally divide. But some times they slip out and it takes time to set them all up. I stick with the knife now saves time and no mistakes.

Kind corals, The main color benefits come from the 410nm emitters they stimulate production of pigments themselves without these in LED fittings many corals wash out especially reds. 430 and 450nm excite the fluorescent protiens so add to the viewing pleasure though 430nm is not very visible in intensity it does fluoresce some corals very strongly. The visible effect of my mix is about 8500-9000k, how i like it but very much to personal taste. I look for growth and being able to take nice pictures more so than viewing pleasure, the mix suits my needs. I hate those horrible blue LED pictures :thumbdown

I used to play around with some Hadoni and Magnifica years back and had some success at propagating them. They are much more difficult to do than the BTA and not worth the efforts for me at this stage I have plenty to keep me busy as it is without mucking around with difficult species. That was pre LED so cant say from experience how they would go, but photons are photons provid the right spectrum and they will be fine :p

[benjaminspades]

May I post pictures of my first two cuts? it's been a few days for me roughly 5 days. when should I start feeding?

[benjaminspades]

By the way, I cut 1 green bubble tip, and a rainbow one? It has red orange tentacles with a purple tip and green base. what would that be classified as? rainbow?

[oceanarium]

By the way, I cut 1 green bubble tip, and a rainbow one? It has red orange tentacles with a purple tip and green base. what would that be classified as? rainbow?

Your more than welcome to post pictures, so we can see how they look after 5 days. That rainbow sounds awesome good cols can be hard to find.

The consensus seems to be two weeks before you can resume feeding. I usually inspect them after a few weeks just to be sure new tentacles and mouth has formed. Tentacles are usually still stubby on the cut side but the nem should be able to take food and pass to its mouth.

1st cut is always the scary one, especially with a rare prized color.:)

[KindCorals]

Thanks for the information on the different wavelengths and their affect on corals. Its definitely helping me to make my decision on what type of LEDs to get. Do you get yours from Twilight?

Im interested to know more about your propagating Haddoni anemones. I want to setup a species tank with just Haddonis and would love to propagate them. Was this by the knife method or by getting them to spawn?

[oceanarium]

I don't use twilight, not heard of them. There are so many company's making them now its getting difficult to keep up. Of late I have been using CT lighting, I would avoid them at the moment they had a big argument between the directors this week and have been sending very unprofessional emails. I had to cancel an order not willing to TT some funds while they fight. Shame their lights have been 100% reliable.

There was a government funded institution spawning some Haddoni here a few years back. I saw some promising pictures of the grow tanks with the young ones, but nothing ever came of it.... probably run out funds.

My own experiences was in using the knife, I know this is not something recommended these days. But ten years ago there was little info on the subject. I actually managed a method that worked quite well for me with Magnifica and Haddoni. I was a wild collector at the time and had access to large mature nems whereas the small ones were rare to find and more valuable so the aim was to make smaller ones rather than to produce many clones.

I had two large tanks 200g each, one for Magnifica and one for Haddon's with a central filter. The method was to do a clean as possible cut in a separate tub with a very sharp knife. Very messy and difficult with large nems.

If left on their own devices an infection would surely set in as they would sit in a heap on the tank bottom for a few days. The trick was to pull them out and wash them in clean fresh seawater two-three times a day till they healed from the wound.

They were very very slow to resume a normal shape.

Once I was lucky enough to have a Magnifica naturally divide in my system. It would be interesting to see if you try to come up with some sort of restricting / streching method that would give the nem some time to adapt.
http://www.masa.asn.au/masawiki/images/8/87/Magnifica_bud.JPG
http://www.masa.asn.au/masawiki/images/d/dc/Magnifica_stretch.JPG

[KindCorals]

I don't use twilight, not heard of them. There are so many company's making them now its getting difficult to keep up. Of late I have been using CT lighting, I would avoid them at the moment they had a big argument between the directors this week and have been sending very unprofessional emails. I had to cancel an order not willing to TT some funds while they fight. Shame their lights have been 100% reliable.


I think I am going to order one high end fixture, probably the Maxspect Razor so I have something to compare the others to, and then I will look at getting a cheaper fixture. Hopefully CT will be back to normal by then and I can give them a shot. Thanks for letting me know about the issues they are currently having.


There was a government funded institution spawning some Haddoni here a few years back. I saw some promising pictures of the grow tanks with the young ones, but nothing ever came of it.... probably run out funds.


Do you have any more information on this? I have heard of Anna Scott working with BTA's and Sebae's(I believe this was her other species) but did not know about the Haddoni spawning. Do you know what state sponsored this and maybe I can have a look in their library for information. It sounds really cool but too bad nothing came of it. I would love to do this for gigantea someday when I have way to much money and free time on my hands :lmao:


My own experiences was in using the knife, I know this is not something recommended these days. But ten years ago there was little info on the subject. I actually managed a method that worked quite well for me with Magnifica and Haddoni. I was a wild collector at the time and had access to large mature nems whereas the small ones were rare to find and more valuable so the aim was to make smaller ones rather than to produce many clones.

I had two large tanks 200g each, one for Magnifica and one for Haddon's with a central filter. The method was to do a clean as possible cut in a separate tub with a very sharp knife. Very messy and difficult with large nems.

If left on their own devices an infection would surely set in as they would sit in a heap on the tank bottom for a few days. The trick was to pull them out and wash them in clean fresh seawater two-three times a day till they healed from the wound.

They were very very slow to resume a normal shape.

Once I was lucky enough to have a Magnifica naturally divide in my system. It would be interesting to see if you try to come up with some sort of restricting / streching method that would give the nem some time to adapt.


That sounds amazing! Would the large Haddoni eventually come around if they were split into a few smaller ones? It makes sense to keep them free of the slime that normally develops on wounded marine life. That must have been really cool to collect them in the wild, I cant even imagine all the things you must have seen down there! Thats very cool that the Magnifica split in your tank, the baby just looks like a puddle of slime with a few tentacles sticking out of it. Was that a bud that formed off the main anemone and eventually split off? I've heard of that happening, rarely, but occasionally.

[oceanarium]

I was only reading the specs on the razor the other day it should work well for you :thumbsup:

the Haddon's breeding was being done at an aquaculture center in or just north Broome Western Australia. There are (and have been) several facilities around there not sure which one it actually was.

Yes the Magnifica formed the new head then pulled itself away from the new head stretching itself till it split off from the baby one, Pedal laceration is the term.

[benjaminspades]

Ok! I have a problem! Help me lol.


Nem 1 Green Bubbletip

Nem 2 Regular Rose with green base bubbletip

Nem 3 Rainbow Rose, green base and red tentacle and purple tip bubbletip

I cut #1 and #2 and let heal for one week. I introduced #3 one week later and in 3 days #3 started melting from the inside out. 5 days after that #1 Both started melting from inside out. Whats going on?! #2 is just fine but I moved him to another tank just to be safe. What did I do wrong?

[benjaminspades]

Params are good too by the way.

[BayouCorals]

I have a multiple tank system with common sump. I keep fresh BTA cuttings in there own tank for at least 10 days. After that I put them back in a large mixed reef. Once I put one back too soon and it started to melt with in 24 hours. I saved it by isolating it and putting it in a fish net under direct flow in front of an outlet. After another 24 hours of direct flow it stopped melting and I moved it to a low light moderate flow area and it recovered. Larger systems give you a lot more flexibility for times like that.

[BayouCorals]

I thought I would add a little more to what might have gone wrong.

1. Mixing with other corals too soon the BTAs could not handle the chemical warfare while still trying to heal.
2. BTA got an infection some how. I keep mine in baskets under moderate flow in a cleaner environment with no detris while healing. The constant flow keeps the wound clean and reduces chances of infection.
3. Wild caught BTA had not adjusted to aquarium life. All of my BTAs are multi generational tank raised. All were either propagated by some one else originally or they are splits of splits of splits traded and sold in local clubs. That is not a requirement, but increases odds of having very hardy stock.

[benjaminspades]

Do bubbletips create chemical warfare with their own kind? Do colors matter?

[BayouCorals]

Most People say that when you propagate BTA's you should start with a single anemone per tank. Not just same color but same DNA clones. I don't know if that is just popular belief or fact. To my limited knowledge they do not cause chemical warfare against each other no matter what colr. I am not a professional, but I only cut from one strain at a time. I don't mix healing BTA's. After healed I put them in a mixed reef with many BTAs, softies, and LPS. I am not trying to cut every month so maybe that would be the difference in keeping one strain of BTA per tank?

[KindCorals]

Hey Pete, can we see how things are going now? :fish2:

[oceanarium]

I thought I would add a little more to what might have gone wrong.

1. Mixing with other corals too soon the BTAs could not handle the chemical warfare while still trying to heal.
2. BTA got an infection some how. I keep mine in baskets under moderate flow in a cleaner environment with no detris while healing. The constant flow keeps the wound clean and reduces chances of infection.
3. Wild caught BTA had not adjusted to aquarium life. All of my BTAs are multi generational tank raised. All were either propagated by some one else originally or they are splits of splits of splits traded and sold in local clubs. That is not a requirement, but increases odds of having very hardy stock.

That sounds like very good advice.

Only issue I have with baskets is getting the little blighters off to move them. I use a floating basket for my rics in a tank with a Tunzie wave box, the rocking motion keeps good flow and clean water to them constantly.

I don't have access to any 'Tank hardened stock' certainly I am seeing that some of the ones I get direct from the wild collector don't like captive life nearly as much as others.
Hey Pete, can we see how things are going now?
I think my last cut was to soon, now I know why they recommend to wait till they get big before cutting.... I think its been about 4 months and they are still not ready to cut again. :hammer:

I get a feeling without the clowns they are less happy and roam more. I also feel they may be growing a little slower as a result of removing the clowns, they did used to feed them a lot. I have started to add some clowns back to a few just to see what happens.

I was tying up big tanks lightly stocked so have tried one of our larva rearing tanks as a BTA grow tank and it seems to be working well. The larva tanks are not in use these days I devote all my efforts to corals, so this could be a good use for them.

The tanks themselves are parabolic with one end screened off to hold the larva feeds in. I swapped out the screen for a slotted comb overflow. Lighting at this stage was just a basic 50w LED to see how it goes. There are ten more larva tanks I can use for the BTA so if things keep progressing well I will swap all the BTA over.
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/IMGP3773.jpghttp://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/IMGP3772.jpghttp://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/oceanarium/IMGP3770.jpg

[KindCorals]

4 months and still not ready to cut again? Thats got to be rough but you are obviously a patient man so Im sure its not problem for you :lolspin:

That makes sense about the clowns helping them stay put and as long as the clowns arent too big compared to the size of the healing BTA, it doesnt seem like it should be that big of a deal. Hopefully having the clowns back will help the BTA settle down and heal faster.

As for the issue with wanting to move BTAs but them being attached to something in the tank, Anthony Calfo said to use window screen as they have a hard time getting really attached to it. He had an article on a BTA propagation tank but I cant find the link anymore. After a quick search it seems that fiberglass screen should be ok for the tank.

Those larva tanks look perfect for keeping lots of clones in and that purple anemone is beautiful! Is that a BTA? It looks like a crispa but it amazing whatever it is :D Im about to order my tank and I cant wait to put some anemones and clowns in it..

[rcypert]

How does one go about knife splitting their RBTA? I have seen and tried the cutting board razor out of water but is there a way to do it in the tank?

[Dukester]

I find an easy way to get my anemones to split is a big shift in salinity, if you go from 1.025 to 1.023 in one big water change they will do it naturally, give it a try, its nice you don't have coral in those tanks because they might not like the sudden decrease all that much.

[KindCorals]

I find an easy way to get my anemones to split is a big shift in salinity, if you go from 1.025 to 1.023 in one big water change they will do it naturally, give it a try, its nice you don't have coral in those tanks because they might not like the sudden decrease all that much.

I might give this a shot but I will have to fish out the shrimp first or I will have more anemone food