Most reef safe dwarf angel

[Recty]

Which dwarf angel would be considered the most reef safe?

I have a small tank and I want this to be the only fish. I'm going to order it small, like around 1-1.5" and give it years to grow to max size.

I plan on having mainly LPS and mushrooms, no SPS in the plans.

A LFS has a small African Flameback that I like for a decent price, but I'm not sure on their reef safeness. Also, I like most of the dwarf angels, so if someone could tell me which one is the most reef safe, or maybe the top three most reef safe, that would be awesome.

[Allmost]

plankton eater angels, like the swallowtail angelfish.

or any other fish of the genus Genicanthus.

[yh1185]

It's really hit or miss with any of these angels. I have a coral beauty that has never nipped at any of my corals (SPS/LSP/Softies). I like to keep a seaweed clip in the tank, so it can feed on it whenever it's hungry. I think the key is to keep it full, so it never tries to nip at any corals. Once it has the taste for corals it's probably going to keep going for them, so to avoid that, try and keep a food source for them at all times, especially when they're small. Good luck!

[Allmost]

It's really hit or miss with any of these angels. I have a coral beauty that has never nipped at any of my corals (SPS/LSP/Softies). I like to keep a seaweed clip in the tank, so it can feed on it whenever it's hungry. I think the key is to keep it full, so it never tries to nip at any corals. Once it has the taste for corals it's probably going to keep going for them, so to avoid that, try and keep a food source for them at all times, especially when they're small. Good luck!

those are coral eating fish, they eat corals, doesnt matter how much you feed them. they evolved that way. now more feeding means less coral eating, you are right on that :) [They eat coral in wild, when they have all sorts of other foods]

the plankton eating angels though, are a different story.

Regards,

[sponger0]

The most reef safe is no angel in a reef tank. They you know 100% your corals wont get eaten by an angel.

[Allmost]

The most reef safe is no angel in a reef tank. They you know 100% your corals wont get eaten by an angel.

ever kept a plankton eating angel ? ;)

[LobsterOfJustice]

Check out the spreadsheet on the last page of this thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1661153&page=6

[Bolivian Ram]

Personal experience of mine has shown Coral beauty angels to be reef safe as long as you feed them at least twice a day and various different foods.

[Recty]

Ah, thanks much. I sorted by column E and it lists the Flameback as one of the most "reef safe" angels, which is great because they seem to be one of the smaller angels. I also have a line on one of them here, so that's really good to know. Also the Cherub is listed as being pretty reef safe, which is another small angel, in fact very small, and I have a line on getting one of those local too.

My other interest is a flame angel, but they get a little bigger and I'd like to get one of the smallest angels possible. But if I could get a small flame angel, I might go for that.

My only concern with going with a tiny cherub angel is I have a 2.5" mantis shrimp that would probably like to snack on him... but if I get a bigger angel, something around an inch and a half at least, I should be totally safe there and my mantis wont ever get more than 3" or so, so the angel should be fine unless it gets sick in which case it's probably a goner anyway.

[sponger0]

Typically, mantis tanks are strictly that unless you put fish in for food. And I wouldnt doubt a mantis taking even a medium size flame angel.

I would ask people in the mantis forum. Ive never seen a mantis less than 6 inches long...but that would depends on what species you have

[agreeive?fish]

most reef safe dwarf angel is the picture of one you cut out of a magazine and tape to the outside glass

the rest is hit or miss and could be a hit for years the a miss the next day

but the most reef safe dwarf angel for a mantis tank would be the cut out mentioned above but probably not safe from water from mantis cracked glass

[Recty]

Typically, mantis tanks are strictly that unless you put fish in for food. And I wouldnt doubt a mantis taking even a medium size flame angel.

I would ask people in the mantis forum. Ive never seen a mantis less than 6 inches long...but that would depends on what species you have Sorry, but I feel you're way off. You're describing mantis in general, whereas there are MANY different types, some getting over a foot and some staying 2". Some are obligate fish eaters, some eat basically only inverts. You cant just say all mantis eat medium size flame angels...

The one I have is a G. smithii, definitely not a spearer, he likes hermit crabs and snails. He is 2.5" now and rarely attain more than 3" or so in captivity.

Anyway, long story short, I know all about mantis and I'm not looking for advice there, especially broad and vague advice that isnt applicable to my situation. I know what size fish I can keep safely with him, I'm just curious which dwarf angel will be best in a reef. And I got a good answer from LobsterOJ, that spreadsheet really helped.

[sponger0]

I'm just curious which dwarf angel will be best in a reef.


Which is best is determined by you. If you dont mind losing corals...than any will do. If you have paid high dollar for corals like I have and dont wanna risk losing any then the answer is none.

There is no definate with angels. I have looked at this time and time again...as I would like to have one. And no matter which pygmy angel I looked at the story was all the same. Some have had luck some have not. Some had them a day and instantly start eating corals, and some had them for years, never touched a coral and one day they just turned and went to town.

Now as far as the mantis...I was speaking in my experience...which yes is very limited hence why I said check with the mantis forums. But appreciate your comment.

[Recty]

What I was looking for was an answer like LobsterOJ gave, something pertaining to the question I asked :) And it certainly helped. I realize no angel is completely reef safe, I just wanted the best guess as to what I could hopefully have luck with. No point in me starting with an angel that is well known to always eat coral, I want to at least start out with one that has a reputation for being more reef safe than others.

[rssjsb]

ever kept a plankton eating angel ? ;)There have been several people here reporting that their genicanthus were picking at corals. Not the norm, but not as absolute as you seem to believe. Also, it's irrelevant because the OP is looking for recommendations about dwarf angels.

Recty - Do your LPS include brain corals? That's going to significantly reduce your chances of success. As you've noted, cherubs are supposed to be safer than most, but sounds like you've ruled them out based on size. I've got a Potters, Multibar, and Singapore (the Singapore isn't technically a dwarf, but they don't get very big). None of them has bothered any of my softies, and I doubt you'd have problems with your mushrooms. However, I don's have LPS for that reason. Maybe if your LPS are more noxious, like galaxy or frogspawn you'd have better odds.

[aquaph8]

Yes Genicanthus are considered large angels and wouldn't be suited for a small tank.

[Prospec1]

I have a Flame, Coral Beauty, and a Golden Pygmy in my 150gal. Have had no problems from anyone.

[Recty]

Recty - Do your LPS include brain corals? That's going to significantly reduce your chances of success. As you've noted, cherubs are supposed to be safer than most, but sounds like you've ruled them out based on size. I've got a Potters, Multibar, and Singapore (the Singapore isn't technically a dwarf, but they don't get very big). None of them has bothered any of my softies, and I doubt you'd have problems with your mushrooms. However, I don's have LPS for that reason. Maybe if your LPS are more noxious, like galaxy or frogspawn you'd have better odds.I dont have any brain corals and I dont know that I ever will... right now I've got green star polyps, pulsing xenia and some button polyps. I'd like to eventually have some of the cool ricordea covering the floor and then some more small, easy to manage corals around the tank. I'm not actually sure what I want yet, other than I dont want to have to maintain perfect water conditions like SPS require, I'd rather be able to be a little more lax and just keep some LPS and buttons. Acans might be added at some point, which seem pretty hit and miss for dwarfs from what I can tell.

i have a coral beauty that has never nipped at any of my corals.Good to know.

I have a Flame, Coral Beauty, and a Golden Pygmy in my 150gal. Have had no problems from anyone.I'd like a flame, really I would... I might end up going that route.

Anyone know how dwarf angels sleep at night? Do they cruise around the tank slowly or do they pick one spot in the rock and jam in and sleep there?

[thelizardkin]

i've had multiple flame angels and coral beautys with all types of coral and i've never had a issue

[bullitr]

I have 9 Angels on my main tank (mixed reef, with Zoa , acans , chalice, LPS , softies and SPS) no incident yet
3 flame back ( fireball)
3 flame angel
2 Lemarch
1 masked shallow face ( in my large sump with corals)

http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab276/seancastor12/aquarium%202012/IMG_6893-Copy.jpg

I think the key is feeding them frequently ( 5-6 times a day)
Also if tank is small it's most likely to feed on corals

[Recty]

That's a nice looking tank. And yes, my tank is small, this would be the only fish I'd have in it, it would be a complete reef with a small mantis shrimp and this dwarf angel.

I've had flames before but always just in a FOWLR so I never had to deal with risking corals. I'm leaning more towards trying it this time around those, I certainly like the looks of a nice flame angel.

A LFS has a flameback for sale for $30 and the cheapest I could buy it online is $60, normally it works the other way around here where it's listed online for $30 and I have to pay $60 local, so I was thinking about giving it a go. I wish I didnt like the look of the flame angel so much :)

[guppie]

I have had pairs of Flames, CB, and Lemon peals over the last 10 yrs with no problems, my tank is Softies, and LPS

[OoNickoC]

I have a handful of systems I still get to play with that have kept centropyge for years. The smallest about 17 gallons display. Though if your planning on housing frags that are expensive....it's really just luck and relying on internet/hobbyist conjoncure. RC search on the ones you like will give more than a brief read lol.

[wayne in norway]

I think you would need to be very, very unlucky with a flameback to get one that started nipping. I have owned several, and have never had an issue.

I have however owned a Lamarcks that nipped softies, so have 1st hand experience of misbehaving Genicanthus. Also I would only keep bellus in a 4 foot tank, and at least 5 or 6 for the bigger Genicanthus -they swim a lot.

[Recty]

I think I'll go with the flameback at this point due to the small size and the low potential to become a nipper.

A slight concern of mine is that this is my office tank and I wont be here over the weekend. Right now I dont have a good way set up for auto feeding, although I can, but for a little while at least he wont be getting fed for 2 days, so I bet he gets hungry which could lead to nipping...

I'm redoing my canopy and when I do, I plan on having a small spot built right into it for my autofeeder to go and be hidden from sight, then the fish can get food all days without problem, as long as he will happily eat flakes or pellets.

[johnike]

My 2 cents. I have had an Eibli for quite a while with no problems munching corals.
Beautiful fish as well.

[rssjsb]

I dont have any brain corals and I dont know that I ever will... right now I've got green star polyps, pulsing xenia and some button polyps. I'd like to eventually have some of the cool ricordea covering the floor and then some more small, easy to manage corals around the tank. I'm not actually sure what I want yet, other than I dont want to have to maintain perfect water conditions like SPS require, I'd rather be able to be a little more lax and just keep some LPS and buttons. Acans might be added at some point, which seem pretty hit and miss for dwarfs from what I can tell.You ought to be ok with GSP and rics. Xenia and zoanthids are riskier but probably ok, too. Acans are more likely to get unwanted attention. I would try adding a really healthy small colony (to minimize delicious irresistible slime) only once you get your auto-feeder sorted.

Anyone know how dwarf angels sleep at night? Do they cruise around the tank slowly or do they pick one spot in the rock and jam in and sleep there?I'm not entirely sure, but they do seem to disappear after lights-out, so I'm assuming they're jammed into the rocks.