Apex - Do you watch your ATO ? How Often if yours on ?

[BigOldReef]

Hey Guys,

I just recently switched my Auto Top off to the Apex.

All my filtration and 2 sumps are located outside. I knew that I was evaporating a lot of water. But now that the Topoff is monitored by the Apex I am surprised by how often the ATO turns on / off. I was wondering if anyone else is seeing similar evaporation trends (not necessarily quantity).

I thought my evaporation would be on during the heat of the afternoons (low 90's this week).

So I programmed the Apex, so that the Top Off Float switch has to be active for 15 minutes before turning the Top off solenoid on.

The Float turns on/off constantly all day long. However, with the 15 minute delay that Top Off is turning on about 20 times a day. It runs for 6-15 minutes each time.

There is a little bit of slowing during the wee hours of the night 2-5am but the rest of the time it's pretty consistent in it's on/off timing.

Anyone else seeing this pattern ?


Thanks

Dave

[mal7887]

Mine is about the same... Though all my equipment is inside. Once we leave for the day our thermostat automatically adjusts to 78 degrees inside until about 4 in the afternoon. During this time is when I see my highest evaporation rates. My ATO is only allowed to run for a max of 5 minutes every 60 minutes.

[L8ndeb]

Anyone else seeing this pattern ?

Although my tank and sump are indoors, and my freshwater supply is in the garage, I do see a slight increase of "freshwater" usage during the hotter summer months.
Wondering if you have your sumps, filtration units, freshwater holding tanks covered to cut down on the evaporation? I do have the holding tanks covered (both freshwater and saltwater tanks), and the sump is about half covered to help stop some evaporation and salt creep. I have a fan in my canopy to help with oxygen transfer and cooling.

[BigOldReef]

Hi Leyton,

No I keep everything uncovered. I've had success with high evaporation / topoff replacement and not having to do regular water changes.

I knew that I was evaporating alot, I just was shocked to see the on/off pattern. I would have thought it might stay on for longer periods during the day to keep up with the evaporation. But it just seems to be these short little on periods. Which I guess as far as stability the more and smaller the better.

Dave

[L8ndeb]

But it just seems to be these short little on periods. Which I guess as far as stability the more and smaller the better.

Yup, agreed. I have seen posts where folks complain about their ATO pumps trigger on and off so much during the day. and asking for ways to slow it down. Only problem is, of course, that the salinity will fluctuate more if you chose to run your pump less through the day. My pump will run currently, about 30 times a day. It is controlled by float switches. Frankly, I don't care how many times a day it runs (as long as it is evaporation that is making it run!), I'm just looking for stability.

[mhosts]

When I had my 120 gallon it would evaporate between 2.5 and 3.5 gallons per day in the summer time.

My ATO was powered by a Maxi Jet 1200 and Apex controller so it would take about 3-5 seconds to top off when it kicked in.

Now my 60 gallon evaporates about 1-1.5 gallons per day.

If you have a slow pump it will run for longer periods.

If you have a small area for your return pump in your sump it will also run more often because less water has to evaporate to trigger a float switch.

[BigOldReef]

My guestimate has always been that evaporation was 15+ gallons a day in the winter time and 40+ gallons a day in the summer time.

My topoff sensor is in a 100g sump, and the area with the return pump holds about 60g of water.

My topoff is straight off the RO/DI through a DIY 8g Kalk Mixer. So my topoff flows at the rate of my RO system which is 100gpd

[baldbean]

I try and match my evap rate as much as possible and use a BRS 50 mL/min dosing pump for top off. The pump is on for 15 seconds every 15 minutes. Total water in my system is about 30 gallons.

[bazineta]

Hi Leyton,

No I keep everything uncovered. I've had success with high evaporation / topoff replacement and not having to do regular water changes.

Dave

I don't wish to hijack the thread, but it sounds as if there's some valuable knowledge to be gained here; would you mind elaborating a bit on that, as I'm intrigued by it.

[BigOldReef]

Baz, Which part would you like elaboration on?

[bazineta]

The part where with enough evaporation and top off replacement you don't have to do regular water changes.

[BigOldReef]

About 10 years ago I upgraded a 15 year old 125 reef to a 360. Part of the 360 upgrade was to accommodate my growing addiction for SPS.

My 125 had been a very successful reef with a Mandarin and a Flame angel that were in their teens. For topoff I had used a garden hose to fill up the sump once a month. Water changes were done every 3-4 months.

My old 125 had run off of 2 Quiet One pumps, and had an Oceanic Skimmer, and the tank ran silently.

When I added a Calcium Reactor to the system I found the noise of the bubble hitting the pump to be annoying. My fish tank is the next room over from my Living Room Theater, and I am extremely sensitive to noise.

So with the 360 upgrade I moved all the tank equipment outside to maintain a silent installation. It started with just a 100g sump. But then I got more involved into SPS and set up some outside tanks to grow out corals. At one point I had over 600g of outdoor tanks. Nothing was covered and everything was exposed to the sunlight and the elements.

With close to 2000g of water doing a 20% water change was a bit of a challenge. With the evaporation being topped off with just tap water I was getting great coral coloration and growth, but the maintenance of keeping my tank glass clean was outrageous.

So I installed an RO system. Over the years I have tried 5 stage, 7 stage, Phosphate Cartridges and all kinds of things. But I settled out on a simple 4 stage unit. Nothing fancy just using the basic cartridges.

I downscaled my system to the 1100g it is now, which still makes doing a water change a bit of work.

But I have had great success in the past with only doing 2 major water changes a year (250g range) and relying on RO topoff with Kalk the rest of the year.

And when I do do water changes, I use water straight from the hose, no RO. I have a week or so of cleaning alot more algae off the glass but then things balance out.

When I do test my water, which is usually someone curious about the system who wants to test it the parameters (for the past 10 years) have always been stable.

The Caveat is, that this works for me. But I also have 1100g of water and close to 1000lbs of rock. I evaporate a lot of water everyday, naturally.

I do not recommend avoiding water changes as a method to successful reefkeeping. And if there was an easy and cost effective way of changing 10-20% weekly I recommend it and I would do it.

Now to keep this thread on topic: I just added my third EB8 to my system which I am mounting in an exterior weatherproof box. This EB8 is going to control my outside equipment - ozone, kalk mixer, topoff, and UV.

Did that answer your query ?

[bazineta]

It did, thanks, and thanks for the time to provide the response. Very interesting indeed.

[Ripperj]

Obviously its working for you, but I am surprised,because when the water evaporates(vice a water change) all the impurities are left in the tank.

[sminker]

I was going by the same philosophy with only two water changes a year. All was great till about the 18 month mark, I started noticing a little less PE on one of my main Milli colonies. I thought it was just a cycle but then I started getting color loss on my large Leng Sy. After the two year mark I started really inspecting the corals and noticed a small amount of tissue loss at the bases of a few random SPS, not all, just a couple. Ive recently started doing 3-4 week intervals and things turned around almost immediately.

Ive got a 180G SPS tank and I cant fit anymore corals into the tank without having encroaching colonies or they have a hard time getting direct light. I did rework the right side of the tank and put a few small frags up there to fill it in. But the rest of the tank space is taken.

I dose Kalk via topoff, CAL and ALK with BRS dosers on the Apex, Magnesium manually, and Iodine once a week.

I will not do the 2 water changes a week method again. I will go 2-4 but no longer.

http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww265/sminker/IMAG0028.jpg