Help with nano dosing for sps heavy tank

[alford35]

Well, just as the title states. I've never kept a nano or sps tank and am jumping in head first.

Setup 16g nuvo

Equipment

Radion lights
mp10w
Koralia nano optional ph that is still in the tank but off ATM thinking of putting it on a timer or taking it out
Tunze ATO unit
Stock return pump

Livestock

2 Black and White clowns
1 pep shrimp
1 tiny snapping shrimp
6 small hermits
3 snails

Coral

Random button polyps aprox 10 been in tank for 2 weeks
Zoo rock aprox 40count- 2 weeks
Wall hammer 3"- 1 week
Rainbow monti plating 2"- arriving tomorrow
Acro Prostrata 2"- arriving tomorrow
Pocillopora damicornis 2"- arriving tomorrow
Monti branching 2"- arriving tomorrow
Acro Samoensis 2.5"- arriving tomorrow
Monti branching 2"- arriving tomorrow

Params

Ammonia-0
Trates-0-5
PH 8.3
Salinity 1.021 I dont know why it is low but was doing a water change tonight and about freaked out because I had it at 1.024. I'll bring it up to 1.022 tonight and then slowly bring it back up over the next four to five days. Just hoping the sps will accept the slow change that I'll have to make.

Will start checking calc. and alk tomorrow after I put the corals into the tank.

What is the easiest way to dose these elements into a nano? Will dosers be the best way to go? I'm totally going out on a limb here and will want to set up the system the correct way the first time. With my other/previous tanks I've been able to get by with dripping kalk water every now and then but this is a whole new ballgame to me now. Tunze makes their calc dispenser for the ATO but the reviews on it werent very good; although, it is still an option.

Goals are to have an easy setup that I can teach my wife and relatives how to use for when we are on vacations. I dont want to spend a whole lot of money but a few hundred dollars wouldnt be out of the question at all. I have some brightwell calc, alk, mag, and trace elements. Thinking about iodine but have never tested for it so kinda makes me want to stay away. I have dosed my tanks with iodine in the past but only like 25% of what was suggested and spread out over a really long time.

So, what is the most effecient user friendly way to go with a nano that will eventually be full of sps and very few other random frags?

[Gangous]

In the beginning ur weekly water changes should do fine as ur sps grow, down the road u might need some 2 part but in system that sm proably get away with hand dosing !
I wouldn't worry about any other additives ur water change should replace them

[alford35]

Ok, so just use a very small amount/less than directions and go up from there until find out how much is being replished/used?

Just checked salinity in tank to match dip water to and now it is back closer to what it was supposed to be. Weird, I guess the water change was still mixing up together although I havve never had a bad reading like that during water change as I match temp but guess oxygen could have been off.

[frugalreefer]

I recommend utilizing a doser like a reef keeper lite or similar to dose 2part (if you plan on using). Alk is depleted rather quickly in a small system and I'm afraid manual dosing won't keep up on demands with your planned sps. Youll quickly learn this once you introduce the frags in your tank and test for alk and calcium....test again in 24hrs.

Im speaking from experience from manual dosing to buying a RKL and seeing my sps suffer from low alk issues.

[alford35]

Thats what I was thinking but like I said I am jumping in head first here and will accept all advice.

Could you privide a link on what I would need?

I just put the frags into the tank will be testing here in about 30 minutes after dinner.

[alford35]

It was aprox 400

[frugalreefer]

Did you test for alkalinity? Check out Digital Aquatics or Neptune Systems under the Sponsor forums.

[sponger0]

You need to check magnesium along with calcium and alkalinity. They all go hand in hand.

Also it would be a good idea to get an ATO if you dont already to minimize the fluctuations of water parameters.

But I would recommend doing a chart to monitor your water parameters over a minimum of a 2 week period. This will give you a baseline of where your elements are being used up and then you can decide the method of dosing that would work best for you.

[plyle02]

You need to check magnesium along with calcium and alkalinity. They all go hand in hand.

Also it would be a good idea to get an ATO if you dont already to minimize the fluctuations of water parameters.

But I would recommend doing a chart to monitor your water parameters over a minimum of a 2 week period. This will give youa baseline of where your elements are being used up and then you can decide the method of dosing that would work best for you.

Very Good Advice :)

Just to add my thoughts as well:
For me, the most important starting point is my salt choice, especially when keeping sps, I choose Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salts, I do for reason of the consistency from batch to batch, and also because of my desired parameters.
Once you have determined where the desired parameters are to be, the salt choice is next, I prefer close to NSW values, for this I choose my salt.

Next, do the above to determine calcification consumption rate for ca, alk, and mag. I would start with standard recommendations for daily uptake based on the 2 part directions, and simply tweek up or down from there. As a sidenote, while testing each day for 2 weeks or so to lock in the daily consumption, I would also test every day at the same time of day, or as closely as possible.

Likely, with just frags or small colonies of sps or any other calcifying inverts, the weekly water changes will likely suffice, as mentioned earlier. To me, this is why salt choice is important. As the corals and inverts become larger, the consumption rate will increase, this is why weekly testing is important, this way as the consumption increases, you catch it before your values drop too low and get out of whack. Problems undetected by a novice eye for sps can result in death.

Good luck on the SPS journey, they are hard to keep, but the reward is worth the effort... GL :)

[alford35]

Did you test for alkalinity? Check out Digital Aquatics or Neptune Systems under the Sponsor forums.

No, not yet. I ordered a mag test way could start testing and dosing all three at the same time although it seems like mag will only be needed at water changing. It will be here tomorrow. I read the long thread about each affects the other and how keeping a higher mag along with low end alk will allow to keep the calc up a little more.

[alford35]

Very Good Advice :)

Just to add my thoughts as well:
For me, the most important starting point is my salt choice, especially when keeping sps, I choose Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salts, I do for reason of the consistency from batch to batch, and also because of my desired parameters.
Once you have determined where the desired parameters are to be, the salt choice is next, I prefer close to NSW values, for this I choose my salt.

Next, do the above to determine calcification consumption rate for ca, alk, and mag. I would start with standard recommendations for daily uptake based on the 2 part directions, and simply tweek up or down from there. As a sidenote, while testing each day for 2 weeks or so to lock in the daily consumption, I would also test every day at the same time of day, or as closely as possible.

Likely, with just frags or small colonies of sps or any other calcifying inverts, the weekly water changes will likely suffice, as mentioned earlier. To me, this is why salt choice is important. As the corals and inverts become larger, the consumption rate will increase, this is why weekly testing is important, this way as the consumption increases, you catch it before your values drop too low and get out of whack. Problems undetected by a novice eye for sps can result in death.

Good luck on the SPS journey, they are hard to keep, but the reward is worth the effort... GL :)

Yeah I can already tell that it will be hard. An acro was knocked over from a snail or urchin and it rested on another sps for a while without anyone seeing it. Needless to say it got hurt pretty good but only on one of about 6 branches. Still looks aweful now in any case.

I went ahead and glued them way no more accidents happen unless they are by me.

[alford35]

You need to check magnesium along with calcium and alkalinity. They all go hand in hand.

Also it would be a good idea to get an ATO if you dont already to minimize the fluctuations of water parameters.

But I would recommend doing a chart to monitor your water parameters over a minimum of a 2 week period. This will give you a baseline of where your elements are being used up and then you can decide the method of dosing that would work best for you.

Yeah good advice as I was going to check like every other day or so but checking every day will give me a better understanding of what they are using for sure.

I've always read about testing at the same time but when is the most accurate time? Is there a better time to test? Like on the swings, is there a point where it should be in the middle?

[sponger0]

Well calcium and magnesium I would check at the same times.

But with Alk I would check multiple times a day so you can see what range its swinging from in the morning, midday and evening. Youll get a good idea what its doing.

[ange062]

Without reading through the whole thread, you should dose Ca/Alk/Mg, but don't dose anything until you test for it. I have had good luck using a Bubble Magus 3-way dosing pump in conjunction with BRS 2-part solutions. Been running this setup for about a year now on my nano with no complaints, and it keeps my parameters rock solid.

[alford35]

Ok, On these pumps, do they come with everything I need to dose?

Like will I just put the solution into something the pump comes with or do I need containers for the solutions.

I got the last test kit I needed (Mag) and have started keeping a log. So really need some info on what to get.

I'm assuming the standard pumps most will go with are 2 or 3 but I really dont see a need in the third if adding Mag during water changes is the only time I'll need to dose it.

I do water changes weekly of about 2-2.5 gallons. Lets say the mag in the water change is 1600 how do I compensate for the tank which may have 1000 or whatever amount. Is there a chart or calculator that will show how much I need to raise the water change mix to?

And, since I'm using two part Brightwell what do I do if I only need to add the calcium part but alk is reading ok? I'm assuming that the alk will start changing but as of now it isnt.

[plyle02]

alford35.
I will use myself as an example: I like to maintain close to NSW values on my sps reef's, main reason I do, is that I usually run a ULNS designed behind c-source dosing, which usually advised to run lower values than most, that said, I choose my salt based on acheiving such values... WHY? Main reason is to be able to do large water changes if necessary, without disturbing ionic balance, the balance that is needed for corals and inverts to CALCIFY. Yes more goes into keeping elements and trace elements in balance, but most utilize water changes for anything but the BASIC 3... Those being CA, ALK, MAG. Please do not think that my parameter choices are the best, or that higher or lower values will not achieve success. Fact is, consistencey is how you are successful, so again, that is why I continue to focus on the topic of Ionic balance around SALT CHOICE... Again, I use Tropic Marin Pro Reef, I like that it mixes at 1.025 at the levels I strive for on the BASIC 3.
@ 1.025 using TMPR salts, my test results:
CA- 390-410 (Test using Salifert)
ALK- 7.5-8.0 DKH (Test using Lamotte)
MAG- 1280-1325 (Test using Salifert)

Ok,
That said, I strive to keep my levels at to or around those set parmaters, I currently hand dose, I am only consuming around 5ml of Alk, and CA per day, and about 5 ml per week on mag. So, I really can keep things locked tight until my weekly water change(5 gallons/34 gallon tank). I still need daily additions to keep a tight alk, you will likely not get coloration until this balance with very little swing is acheived. That said, this is why many above users have CA RX's, or 2-3 part dosers to automate and keep parameters locked in. I myself hand dose, as my consumption rate increases in the future, I will likely automate 2 part, this way I can deliver Alkalinity at many small intervals per day, keeping my alkalinity quite stable. Also, remember that consumption rates peak during photosynthesis, or light hours. Keep in mind that each tank is different, and that both ca and alk do not necessarily consume at the same rate, this said, you will need to be able to pick up on this through testing.
Recommendation:
1. Test your salt choice water for BASIC 3 @ 1.025 or Wherever you keep salinity
2. Test every moring or day, at the same exact time for BASIC 3
3. Supplement recommended amounts of 2 or 3 part based on directions after day 1 test
4. Next day, if you test higher on BASIC 3, back down on the recommended dosing, if lower than starting point, increase above the recommended dosing instructions.
5. Next day, test again, if you are higher, dose less, if lower, dose more.
6. Keep doing this daily until you test at original starting point.
7. Once acheived, now you know your daily consumption rate.

As stated above, I mix to what my salt tests at, the day of a water change, I skip the dosing, as this water change usually accounts for how much of the 2-3 parts I am supplementing daily...

I know this is longwinded, but you should now have a much clearer understanding.

[alford35]

Right. Thanks.

But what about the dosers? Do they come with everything I need or will I need some kind of containers or what? I have never seen a doser or system hooked up before so have no clue about how the solutions go into the doser etc...

I'm more worried about the tank when on vacations than anything as having someone come by to feed the fish once or twice will be ok but no way will someone be able to come and dose the tank if it needs it more than once or twice/week.

[Nano sapiens]

As you can see there are a lot of ways to do this. You may like the easy one I've been using for 4+ years on my 12g.

In a nut shell, clear, saturated Kalkwasser added to a gravity fed ATO (large 'Pet Bottle' method). About as fool-proof as it gets (no float switches to get stuck and no electronics/mechanicals to fail).

Details are in a thread that I can't link to in RC, but if you are interested, I'll point you there.

[ange062]

Ok, On these pumps, do they come with everything I need to dose?

Like will I just put the solution into something the pump comes with or do I need containers for the solutions.

I got the last test kit I needed (Mag) and have started keeping a log. So really need some info on what to get.

I'm assuming the standard pumps most will go with are 2 or 3 but I really dont see a need in the third if adding Mag during water changes is the only time I'll need to dose it.

I do water changes weekly of about 2-2.5 gallons. Lets say the mag in the water change is 1600 how do I compensate for the tank which may have 1000 or whatever amount. Is there a chart or calculator that will show how much I need to raise the water change mix to?

And, since I'm using two part Brightwell what do I do if I only need to add the calcium part but alk is reading ok? I'm assuming that the alk will start changing but as of now it isnt.

No they don't, you need containers, airline tubing, something to hold your tubing in place wherever you decide to dump it into the tank, plus something to mix and store your solution in (the BRS kit I mentioned comes with mix/storage containers).

Eventually when you stock enough, you will absolutely need to add Mg. So plan for the future.

My tank is heavily SPS dominant with 4 clams (in a 28g) and I dose 32ml of Ca/Alk per day, plus 12mL of Mg. I do weekly 5g water changes with a reef salt (high Ca/Alk/Mg). That's just not sustainable by manual dosing IMO, plus the doser gives you ability to leave the tank alone for a few days, while always keeping you parameters in spec.

Ca/Alk should always deplete together linearly, though there are many reasons for instabilities. Check out this article, it will help you a lot:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

[alford35]

As you can see there are a lot of ways to do this. You may like the easy one I've been using for 4+ years on my 12g.

In a nut shell, clear, saturated Kalkwasser added to a gravity fed ATO (large 'Pet Bottle' method). About as fool-proof as it gets (no float switches to get stuck and no electronics/mechanicals to fail).

Details are in a thread that I can't link to in RC, but if you are interested, I'll point you there.

Yeah, I've done that with a mixed non sps tank as well and it is very easy but I'm looking more into electronic dosers.

Thanks tho!

[alford35]

No they don't, you need containers, airline tubing, something to hold your tubing in place wherever you decide to dump it into the tank, plus something to mix and store your solution in (the BRS kit I mentioned comes with mix/storage containers).

Eventually when you stock enough, you will absolutely need to add Mg. So plan for the future.

My tank is heavily SPS dominant with 4 clams (in a 28g) and I dose 32ml of Ca/Alk per day, plus 12mL of Mg. I do weekly 5g water changes with a reef salt (high Ca/Alk/Mg). That's just not sustainable by manual dosing IMO, plus the doser gives you ability to leave the tank alone for a few days, while always keeping you parameters in spec.

Ca/Alk should always deplete together linearly, though there are many reasons for instabilities. Check out this article, it will help you a lot:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

Ok, I'll double check the Alk reading to make sure its dropping in a linear rate as well. Since I want it on the low side I didnt dose it with the first dosing of Cal. Is that the proper way to do it. Once I get it on the low side start dosing at a rate to keep it there?

Any reason why my mag reading is already at 1600 without dosing? Thought it was hard to get it up that high?

Thanks on the info on the containers etc.. So with the BRS kit all I will need is the little tubing clamps/connectors that will sit above the sump. Thats what I needed to hear.