Looking for advice Banggaii Cardinals

[shananagans]

So, I am looking to breed Banggaiis. I will be puting them in my 16g nuvo reef tank, as of now the only other occupant will be a mandarin. I am asking for others opinion based on cost, experience and logic.

I am debating between a known pair of tank breed banggaiis from liveaquaria's divers den which will cost $79.99, or I have on hold 5 tank breed cardinals from them as well that will run me $99.99. I am torn as which would be better for me to go with. With the pair, I know they are paired and would not have to figure it out, but the cost is alot more as I can resell any of the banggaiis from the group of 5 that do not pair up. Another concern is if I just go with the pair if one of them dies, I am stuck with one and they would only refund me half of the $79.99 within the 14day guarentee. But it's not even about the cost with that, it sucks that I would than be stuck with half of a pair and probly not even know if it was a male or female, so I would than have to buy another pair, pay for shipping etc... A down side to the group of 5 is that they are shipped around 1"-1& 1/4", and they might still be in the last stages of being a juvi so I may have to wait awhile for them to develope more and show their male and female tendancies inorder for me to see a pair. I also have never pair banggaiis before...lol.

So, what do you think and why? Thanks.

[sullyfish]

it is difficult to find a good breeding pair of banggai cardinals, some pairs will breed but the male will not hold the eggs, some will not breed at all. It takes time, patience and a good stable tank w/o stress. Your tank is very small, not that it wont work but it is more apt to have temp & salinity swings that will effect the fish.

My advice would be try getting 5 and hope for the best. It may take 6 months or longer so be patient. Worked for me I bought 5 a year ago and I now have a great breeding pair, going on my 4th clutch. Be aware the males will fight each other for the female, so you may have some carpet jumpers before you can sell them off.

Oh yes, and dont forget to be patient

[shananagans]

Ya, I dont think 16g is too small, but yes on the smaller end. I am baseing this off someone that had great success in banggaii breeding and did so out of 10g tanks.

So you think going with 5 will give a better chance because the pair might not even breed? I do kinda want to go witht he group of 5, I'm just afraid I wont be able to sex them and identify the pair. And yes, I do fear casualties as I have seen banggaii in action together.

Why did you opt to buy a group of 5 rather than a pair?

[Darth Vedder]

I got a pair from LA for that price and they are still pretty small and not yet breeding but are a M/F pair.

Does it specifically say they are breeding or just a pair? My guess is they will be small and not yet laying eggs unless they specifically state that on divers den

[shananagans]

They are just a pair not a breeded pair. I understand it may take awhile for them to do so.

[Darth Vedder]

For me, the 79.99 is a good price since you will spend over that trying to make a pair in almost all cases unless ou are super lucky. At least for me that worked best now it's just a waiting game till they start to spawn

[edandsandy]

Have you seen this article?

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-to-determine-the-sex-of-banggai-cardinalfish

[altolamprologus]

I have been trying to breed bangaiis for almost a year now. I bought a captive bred known pair, which was a huge mistake. From everything I've read, as well as what I experienced, captive bred bangaii males are horrible fathers. My male won't hold the eggs more than 3 days, even after I separated the pair and powerfed the male for 2 months. The female, however, is great, and that seems to be the trend with CB females. My advice to you is to get a captive bred female if possible, and a wild male. Even with the risks wild fish come with, that will be your best bet for getting babies.

Read the link posted above. I can tell you from experience that the sexing method shown is 100% accurate, and is really easy with a little experience.

[shananagans]

I have not, but I just had a convo with someone about that the other days. I will remain skepical until I see it for myself, but if that is in fact true it will make things much easier.

Well, I already placed the order for the captive pair... We'll see what happens. Hopefully he is a good father...

[Clownfishfan]

I gave banggais a try..8 cardinals later I gave up. All were wild caught. Pairing was very easy. I bought three from my lfs and they died very quickly for no apparent reason,then I ordered 3 from live Aquaria all were males,they would flare their jaws at each other and they all died off within 10 days. I got 3 replacements from LA and I actually got 1f and 2m , it didn't take long before the little male was beaten up(I moved him to the 16g fuge,he died a few days later)and the female dropped dead for no apparent reason ,same for the male ... So I decided I would let someone else do it instead of me.

[shananagans]

Just to update everone. I recieved the pair last thrus, so I have had them a week. Smaller than I thought, but that's fine. They are a little picker than I would like with eating, but so far managable. Both are eating frozen mysis, one eats frozen blood worms, and neither will touch pellets. They greatly enjoyed the bag of micro feeder shrimp I acclimated and added to the tank. they went crazy when I added them. I am hoping the shrimp will multiply in the tank, i did see a few a couple days after, but have seen know since. They are clear and crazy small tho. My mandarin might consider them a food source as well.

[nrbelk]

Where did you get the feeder shrimp from? Can you link me what you used?

[finrod2]

I bought two at a LFS on June 1. Both were small but were the first fish in my 240. Just yesterday I noticed the larger one's mouth looked distended. This afternoon I confirmed that the larger cardinal has eggs inside his mouth. I only have 5 fish total now so it was a very stable environment for them to pair. I'm not prepared to raised them but I may pick up a long spine urchin which I'm told can be helpful in protecting the fry.

[shananagans]

Awesome, and encouraging to hear. Please keep me updated on their process.

They do use the urchin for protection, if it is large enough adults will too. If you are able to seperate the fry once released you can seperate them and I have seen many people just take a plastic ball, foam or something, and just stick some thin plastic rods in there to simulate and urchin. Worked great for them.

[shananagans]

Sorry nrbelk,

Feeder shrimp were from liveaquaria. I go them onsale as it was part of their weekly special, but they do always stock them. I belive they ship from florida. They are very tiny, about the size of large mysis. They also sell live mysid shrimp too.

[finrod2]

Looks like my male expelled or ate the eggs. He has not ate food yet so may still have a few eggs but the mouth doesn't look nearly as bloated as before. Most my fish are captive bred so I might be experiencing what altolamprolagus mentioned about CB males.

[shananagans]

That stinks. That would really **** me off after paying $80 for the pair.

[shananagans]

Haha, you can't say ****. That's not even a curse.
(2nd attempt)
Ok, that would really ruffle my feathers.

[luckydean]

I bought 3 and 2 out of that 3 was a pair and they killed my 3rd one but I have me some beauties in my tank now

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2

[shananagans]

So within the past day or two I have seen some aggression coming from one of the banggaiis towards the other (tare in a fine makes it easy to see it's the same one). Not sure if it's the male or female tho, too younge to tell. Not sure what is causing it and if I can help it. But it's not all the time.

[shananagans]

No one? That's not encouraging...

[Darth Vedder]

Did you get the pair from LIve aquaria?

I know my pair I got off divers den are peaceful as can be and most of the time together except after lights out when they are hunting for pods and such

[shananagans]

Yup, Liveaquaria. Even when they are near each other it's as if the one is always uneasy around the other.

[sullyfish]

as they reach maturity they will show aggression as they start to pair up. As I stated before you may have some jumpers so keep a tight lid and watch the carpet.

[shananagans]

It's only the pair tho, why would they show aggression?
I have a glass lid.

[geaux xman]

sorry for off-topic, but you guys seems to know a good bit about keeping bangaii cardinals.

I'm not looking to breed, but can I keep 3-4 bangai cardinals in a 180g FOWLR? current stock list in sig.

[shananagans]

You def can, the only things I would say to watch for if if any of your fish already have a tendency of showing aggression or bullying small fish. Even if they are not the same species. Just cus the banggaii will be smaller, and probly less active.

Also I would do 3 or 5, not four. Always odd numbers..unless it's a pair.

[geaux xman]

Thanks. I guess I will try 3.

[shananagans]

Just got back from being away for 10 days, the pair is doing fine and seems the tinest bit more active.

[shananagans]

Older as in several yrs or when they went from juvis to adults? What was the outcome, did they still breed?

[Gma]

I have a pair of Bangaiis that were in my 125g reef tank. They have had 2 episodes of breeding. The first time I think the male was too immature and didn't hold the eggs long enough. The second time, I saw him brooding babies not just eggs and actually saw a baby swimming. I came to the conclusion that with my inability to keep the babies from being eaten or to give them enough to eat, I needed to move them to a different tank. I just put them in my 37g tank where I keep my anemones. Now I have to wait and see if they will breed. I'll keep you guys posted as things progress (I hope).

[shananagans]

Nice, are they tank breed?

[finrod2]

I have had the same experience. My captive bred pair has now had a second event. My male has been holding eggs for about 3 days. How long till they hatch and release the fry?

[Jaypilot]

Hmmmm. Interesting topic here. I have two pairs of BC in two tanks. I believe both pair are tank raised. I had one male with eggs about 3 months ago and he spit them out or eat them two days later. That same male now is holding eggs for the second time (day 3).

Im not sure why this pair took a 3 month vacation from breeding, but it seems they are back at it again. The funny thing is I was just thinking about doing a water change to try to stimulate things again because I haven't changed the water in about 4 months now.

[Jaypilot]

Just an after thought. I also breed african cichlids. These fish are also mouth brooders. I am having great success breeding these guys by forcing the females to spit out the eggs and then tumble them my self for about 20 days. Has anyone tried to tumble BC eggs and if so what were your results?

[gmneil]

i have had limited success tumbling the eggs, only on my first attempt,, all attempts since then have failed
i think my first attempt worked because the eggs were in the males mouth longet then my latest attempts.
my 1st attempt was forced as i found the eggs laying on the bottom of the tank after a feeding, i think the male wanted the food so bad he spit the eggs out, i was able to get 4 eggs to hatch in the tumbler about 5-7 days later.
since then i modified my tumbler design and have it down pat, i just think i have had bad luck as the eggs seem to get a fungus on them and turn to jelly.
i tried dipping the eggs in medication as well but right when i thought i had it all figured out i lost my female.
i am wating on my new pair to breed and i plan on picking up where i left off.
any help with tumbling the eggs or success stories would be great.

[Jaypilot]

i have had limited success tumbling the eggs, only on my first attempt,, all attempts since then have failed
i think my first attempt worked because the eggs were in the males mouth longet then my latest attempts.
my 1st attempt was forced as i found the eggs laying on the bottom of the tank after a feeding, i think the male wanted the food so bad he spit the eggs out, i was able to get 4 eggs to hatch in the tumbler about 5-7 days later.
since then i modified my tumbler design and have it down pat, i just think i have had bad luck as the eggs seem to get a fungus on them and turn to jelly.
i tried dipping the eggs in medication as well but right when i thought i had it all figured out i lost my female.
i am wating on my new pair to breed and i plan on picking up where i left off.
any help with tumbling the eggs or success stories would be great.

hmmm thats interesting. I wander what african cichlids do different from BC? I have a real basic tumbler that I built for my cichlids and just yesterday I was able to pull 30 cichlids from the tumbler after 15 days (monther held 10 days first). I started out with 32 eggs, so I only lost 2 eggs (pretty good for my standards).

[gmneil]

the tumblers i have seen for sale for cichlids all had metal screen so i never tried one, i did try and diy my own but nothing seemed to work as well as the tumbler i built with a 2 little fishies valve a maxi jet and a 2 liter pop bottle.
i drilled little holes all the way around the bottom of a piece of 1/2 inch pvc pipe. inserted it in the cap area of the 2 liter pop bottle turned upside down, and i control how the eggs tumble with the valve.
maybe this is why my eggs melted as there is no air assisting the eggs.
anyone have any suggestions as to if adding air would help or not, i figured if there was enough saturated oxygen in the water it wouldnt make a difference

[Jaypilot]

Just wanted to update on my guys. I have a male that has been holding now for 5 days. So far this is the first time he made it past two days. I still do not expect him to hold to full term because I have only been feeding these guys about 4 or 5 days a week. With that being said I almost wish he would spit the eggs out now so that I can fatten him up and hopefully try again in a few week.

Other then that, my water quality is great (somehow) 0.00 across the board and salinity is right around .025, temp at 82. I haven't done a water change in 3 months, I just add one gallon of water every 4 days to top it back off.

I was getting ready to do my quarterly water change and then I seen my male was holding eggs so I don't want to disrupt anything right now, but I know I'm due.

[jlymner]

I just got some
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=167306
wish me luck!

[longranger]

picked up a wild pair that the seller says has raised and released several groups of babies that were all comsumed by other tankmates. The male spit 30 plus partially developed eggs in the bag as I took them home.

My plan is to net the male and put him in a separate 24 gallon nano when I see evidence that young are getting close to being released. Will have the tank ready as well as multiple cultures of baby brine. Has anyone had success with that approach?

[shananagans]

Quick update: my pair is doing well and healthy, but the one has grown significantly more than the other, and is domineering towards the smaller one. They don't stay near eahother
and I'm pretty ****ed... At least they are healthy.